Looking forward to this on Monday night, seems a right mix of people from the Ballysally estate to make "Interesting" viewing indeed
Saw the trailer...nice bunch of people :-\
The trailer reminds me of a programme that was on last year called The Scheme - looked like a similar type show except it was set in Kilmarnock
Aye it's a rip off of The Scheme which seemed like some spot.
heres a trailer for it. cant find any GAA pictures or anything like that about.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00n9xqk (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00n9xqk)
Wee reminder for 10.35.
If it features any of the 'locals' then it will be a f**king mess.
A lot of 'undesirable' are hoping to get some airtime. Hope they dont.
Quite topical with all the chat about the benefits cap vote going through the Lords !
It might be early, but if this programme is like I expect it to be, this could be an early frontrunner for thread of the year....
I just hope they didnt edit it much (at all) :D
gonna have to watch it on the BBC iplayer, work to do :(
The Estate is a lovely place :D
I lived there for a while in the 90s. Was middlin enough.
Quote from: ONeill on January 23, 2012, 10:46:01 PM
I lived there for a while in the 90s. Was middlin enough.
You should have seen the Pass and Grove in Beechmount, now that was a real Estate :o
Drink's a bastard hi!!!!x
DLA for alcoholism?? WTF!
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 23, 2012, 10:59:00 PM
DLA for alcoholism?? WTF!
did you not know that? I used to be stunned working in the bank and seeing the Bank Balances of Alcohlics due to the DLA money they were getting. There is also incapacity benefit, rent allowance and dole to take into account as well . . .
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2012, 12:49:02 AM
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 23, 2012, 10:59:00 PM
DLA for alcoholism?? WTF!
did you not know that? I used to be stunned working in the bank and seeing the Bank Balances of Alcohlics due to the DLA money they were getting. There is also incapacity benefit, rent allowance and dole to take into account as well . . .
Handing my notice in at work in the morning!
I`ve already got the application form but it is a bit hard to fill in. :D
Quote from: Tony Baloney on January 24, 2012, 01:00:59 AM
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2012, 12:49:02 AM
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 23, 2012, 10:59:00 PM
DLA for alcoholism?? WTF!
did you not know that? I used to be stunned working in the bank and seeing the Bank Balances of Alcohlics due to the DLA money they were getting. There is also incapacity benefit, rent allowance and dole to take into account as well . . .
Handing my notice in at work in the morning!
Seriously? :D
You would't fit in, in that estate ;)
Quote from: ONeill on January 23, 2012, 10:46:01 PM
I lived there for a while in the 90s. Was middlin enough.
I lived in a private area beside thon - the name escapes me, we got robbed twice :D
Forgot about the show I'll have to watch it. I watched The Scheme - it was some show.
Quote from: bennydorano on January 24, 2012, 07:08:56 PM
Quote from: ONeill on January 23, 2012, 10:46:01 PM
I lived there for a while in the 90s. Was middlin enough.
I lived in a private area beside thon - the name escapes me, we got robbed twice :D
Forgot about the show I'll have to watch it. I watched The Scheme - it was some show.
When it was commissioned it was probably aiming to emulate The Scheme. It's very, very tame in comparison.
Very tame compared to the Scheme. A waste of a half hour actually.
I miss Marvin and Bullet
Quote from: screenexile on January 24, 2012, 12:49:02 AM
Quote from: Lecale2 on January 23, 2012, 10:59:00 PM
DLA for alcoholism?? WTF!
did you not know that? I used to be stunned working in the bank and seeing the Bank Balances of Alcohlics due to the DLA money they were getting. There is also incapacity benefit, rent allowance and dole to take into account as well . . .
Often wondered how alchos managed on the £60 odd that is the dole. £200 gets a right bit of drink when you're eating feck all. Did your man say he drank 6 litres of cider a day?
Where is the incentive to get people off it, surely they should have to attend AA meetings or something?
Quote from: Gold on January 24, 2012, 10:34:27 PM
Very tame compared to the Scheme. A waste of a half hour actually.
I miss Marvin and Bullet
Typical BBC NI shite, but kinda watchable all the same.
Some bird on last week complaining she only got £300 per week on benefits, not bad going when you have no mortgage or rent to pay, free school meals for the children, uniform allowance, winter fuel allowance.
Didnt see it tonight. Thought it was tame enough last week though. A friend of mines worked there and said it wasn't that rough of a place.
Saw it tonight. I found it quite depressing. At least with the Scottish 'The Scheme', there was the campaign to re-open the community centre, which bought the community together. The Estate just appears to be populated with lazy skitters, that don't want to be a child-carer, as she has to work for it, or heavy drinkers on the road to alcoholism that like Prod Orange bathrooms.
Quote from: Minder on January 30, 2012, 11:02:57 PM
Some bird on last week complaining she only got £300 per week on benefits, not bad going when you have no mortgage or rent to pay, free school meals for the children, uniform allowance, winter fuel allowance.
She hasn't spent much on decorating.
your man conviently went back on the beer a day or two before his medical to see if he was still eligible for his money.
the young girl has a good outlook on life, "whats the point going to school, sure when you have finished and passed your exams, there are no jobs anyway, so im not going" in other words i am going to get knocked up asap so i can get a house and live on benefits all my life, just lie mummy.
The mother should be given an extra fiver, told to buy a razor and shave that stinking moustache off as well. What was the justification for giving the 'Proddy Orange Bathroom' bellend his own place? Cos he didn't get on with his da and he wanted a bit of peace and quiet to have a few drinks? Then he's sitting watching a tv that's nearly bigger than himself. DLA as well? More than likely lifted out of someone elses home a few streets away...
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 07:30:19 AM
The mother should be given an extra fiver, told to buy a razor and shave that stinking moustache off as well. What was the justification for giving the 'Proddy Orange Bathroom' bellend his own place? Cos he didn't get on with his da and he wanted a bit of peace and quiet to have a few drinks? Then he's sitting watching a tv that's nearly bigger than himself. DLA as well? More than likely lifted out of someone elses home a few streets away...
Was that boy getting DLA too?
Well whatever he was getting he was getting far too much. He didn't seem to have any children so I'd imagine he would have to concoct some story to get his own place or do they just hand them out to these wasters when they hit a certain age. If he was only on the brew and getting 50 or 60 pound a week he'd hardly be sitting drinking Magner's, smoking all day and then heading to the chip van to buy his dinner?
Fair enough if they don't want to work but they shouldn't be handed houses to live in for the sake of it. Why would they ever go to work when they can get a house and get everything paid for them?
Mother's such as thon wench with the moustache should be told as well after one or two children that if she has any further children her payments will be stopped. Five children, no father - sure I can live on benefits for the rest of my days...How about, right you have had two children and have never worked in your life and are using your children as a fast track to benefits. Have any more and your payments will be reduced/stopped. You cannot support your children so do not have any more, here's a packet of condoms. Use them or else.
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 09:11:32 AM
Well whatever he was getting he was getting far too much. He didn't seem to have any children so I'd imagine he would have to concoct some story to get his own place or do they just hand them out to these wasters when they hit a certain age. If he was only on the brew and getting 50 or 60 pound a week he'd hardly be sitting drinking Magner's, smoking all day and then heading to the chip van to buy his dinner?
Fair enough if they don't want to work but they shouldn't be handed houses to live in for the sake of it. Why would they ever go to work when they can get a house and get everything paid for them?
Mother's such as thon wench with the moustache should be told as well after one or two children that if she has any further children her payments will be stopped. Five children, no father - sure I can live on benefits for the rest of my days...How about, right you have had two children and have never worked in your life and are using your children as a fast track to benefits. Have any more and your payments will be reduced/stopped. You cannot support your children so do not have any more, here's a packet of condoms. Use them or else.
Good post.
Why is there a programme being made about this place? Is this really how the license fee should be used? To follow a series of people who contribute nothing to our society.
Give the money to David Attenborough or BBC Sport or whoever, just use it in a way that isnt this pathetic drivel.
Watched it last nite. Why would you work if your gettin it handed out to you. Would make ur blood boil.
Quote from: take_yer_points on January 19, 2012, 08:35:18 PM
The trailer reminds me of a programme that was on last year called The Scheme - looked like a similar type show except it was set in Kilmarnock
identical
It does leave you feeling a bit like a mug when you pay income tax and rent/mortgage and whatever else when these vermin get everything paid for them.
There is nothing in place in that estate or society that encourages these people to go to work. You have little or no education so you can work 40 hours a week at a low income job and scrape along paying your bills and taxes, etc. Or, you can lie around on your hole all day, knock out a few sprogs and we will give you a house rent free, hand you over just as much or even more than you would get if you were working and then throw in the odd bonus of heating allowance and whatever else you can get on these benefits.
In my opinion, anyone who is on benefits and isn't genuinely ill should be out picking rubbish of the street, cleaning grafitti, tidying flower beds, filling in pot holes, etc. to earn their benefits. If they don't do it, they don't get paid...Simples...
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 09:11:32 AM
Well whatever he was getting he was getting far too much. He didn't seem to have any children so I'd imagine he would have to concoct some story to get his own place or do they just hand them out to these wasters when they hit a certain age. If he was only on the brew and getting 50 or 60 pound a week he'd hardly be sitting drinking Magner's, smoking all day and then heading to the chip van to buy his dinner?
Fair enough if they don't want to work but they shouldn't be handed houses to live in for the sake of it. Why would they ever go to work when they can get a house and get everything paid for them?
Mother's such as thon wench with the moustache should be told as well after one or two children that if she has any further children her payments will be stopped. Five children, no father - sure I can live on benefits for the rest of my days...How about, right you have had two children and have never worked in your life and are using your children as a fast track to benefits. Have any more and your payments will be reduced/stopped. You cannot support your children so do not have any more, here's a packet of condoms. Use them or else.
Look there are too many spongers getting too much money for FCUK ALL! However that said, your solution would be catastrophic! If a single parent has more kids, and their benefit is reduced, then it will inturn be harder to raise them, and may lead to kids growing up in poverty or being taken into care because the parent cant afford to raise them. Costing the state even more money.
Its not the celled benefit that should be stopped its the child care benefit that should be stopped! My partner and myself both work full time and have to pay £100 a week in child care. However single unemployed parents or parents on DLA or job seekers allowance get the child care free! So they sit at home and send their kids to the creche! We are now looking to get a place for the kid in a pre school which will save us a bit of money, however these places go to kids whose parent are on job seekers allowance or DLA first. Complete madness and a waste of state money. It makes me seriously angry >:(
Aye, it's probably not as clear cut as I make it out to be there but there has to be some measure put in place to stop people like this having children as a meal ticket to more benefits. By the looks of it there isn't much rearing of children going on in that house anyway, the kids basically have the run of the house and just wreck it while hairy lip sits downstairs and smokes. It's going to cost money either way and at least the child would have a better chance of getting out of the estate if they were put into care/adopted.
QuoteIts not the celled benefit that should be stopped its the child care benefit that should be stopped! My partner and myself both work full time and have to pay £100 a week in child care. However single unemployed parents or parents on DLA or job seekers allowance get the child care free! So they sit at home and send their kids to the creche! We are now looking to get a place for the kid in a pre school which will save us a bit of money, however these places go to kids whose parent are on job seekers allowance or DLA first.
That's just mental. Why would the government give money to someone to pay for childcare when they are sitting at home anyway. Maybe my idea of waiting until they had kids before they had their benefits cut was wrong. Maybe they should be sterilised so they can't possibly have any more. :-\
Right thats it! Im jackin in the job and goin down to the brew with a bottle of buckfast to see what I can get for nothin
Mucker is right. I am also paying over £100 week on child care while some parents are payin fook all and doing fook all.
QuoteIts not the celled benefit that should be stopped its the child care benefit that should be stopped! My partner and myself both work full time and have to pay £100 a week in child care. However single unemployed parents or parents on DLA or job seekers allowance get the child care free! So they sit at home and send their kids to the creche! We are now looking to get a place for the kid in a pre school which will save us a bit of money, however these places go to kids whose parent are on job seekers allowance or DLA first.
I had heard about that before and its a Scandal of the highest order.
But you won't hear politicians mentioning it.
They know what side their bread is buttered on.
Its true that the working class term rarely exists anymore. Idleness is a disease in some parts.
Ian Duncan Smith is on the warpath on this very topic. N.I is gonna get a rude awakening shortly.
I await the socialists to appear here and say its all the states fault, cause there is no jobs.
These ones wouldnt work even if there was a surplus of jobs for them, its not in them to do any work.
There's jobs surely, just jobs that these people don't want to do. In the mind of Kelly Ann who didn't fancy the idea of school, she wanted to go to school two or three days a week from 1-3. Who the f**k would employ someone with that attitude?
I would put her into a young offenders centre if she continued to miss school. Anyone who is up at 8 O'Clock and can't get out the door for 9 when they have a work placement needs slapped. I think she went out in the same clothes she had slept in so she hardly spent the time tidying herself up.
There was a marked difference in the couple that both worked and owned their house, he was getting £250 a week working in a warehouse so after paying mortgage etc they probably had less money in their pocket than the wasters on the estate yet their house wasn't like some squat.
Quote from: bailestil on January 31, 2012, 12:01:26 PM
QuoteIts not the celled benefit that should be stopped its the child care benefit that should be stopped! My partner and myself both work full time and have to pay £100 a week in child care. However single unemployed parents or parents on DLA or job seekers allowance get the child care free! So they sit at home and send their kids to the creche! We are now looking to get a place for the kid in a pre school which will save us a bit of money, however these places go to kids whose parent are on job seekers allowance or DLA first.
I had heard about that before and its a Scandal of the highest order.
But you won't hear politicians mentioning it.
They know what side their bread is buttered on.
Its true that the working class term rarely exists anymore. Idleness is a disease in some parts.
Ian Duncan Smith is on the warpath on this very topic. N.I is gonna get a rude awakening shortly.
I await the socialists to appear here and say its all the states fault, cause there is no jobs.
Here I will scare you even more. They get their taxis to drop the kids off paid for as well! Bloody joke. Something to do with them needing a break from the kids due to stress or to allow them to find a job. Its not the stayes fault there is no jobs but it is their fault for creating an environment were alot of people are better of not working.
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 12:16:17 PM
I think she went out in the same clothes she had slept in so she hardly spent the time tidying herself up.
Noticed that myself
she definitely didn't wash anyway
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01bgqjw/The_Estate_Episode_2/ (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01bgqjw/The_Estate_Episode_2/)
episode 2
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 11:12:55 AM
It does leave you feeling a bit like a mug when you pay income tax and rent/mortgage and whatever else when these vermin get everything paid for them.
There is nothing in place in that estate or society that encourages these people to go to work. You have little or no education so you can work 40 hours a week at a low income job and scrape along paying your bills and taxes, etc. Or, you can lie around on your hole all day, knock out a few sprogs and we will give you a house rent free, hand you over just as much or even more than you would get if you were working and then throw in the odd bonus of heating allowance and whatever else you can get on these benefits.
In my opinion, anyone who is on benefits and isn't genuinely ill should be out picking rubbish of the street, cleaning grafitti, tidying flower beds, filling in pot holes, etc. to earn their benefits. If they don't do it, they don't get paid...Simples...
I have always been in agreement with this view, the spongers should be made to do some kind of work around the community as they are not spending all day every day looking for work.
On the otherhand the governement will probably do the illogical thing as was the case in this example:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085142/Cait-Reilly-Unemployed-graduate-sues-ministers-forced-work-Poundland.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085142/Cait-Reilly-Unemployed-graduate-sues-ministers-forced-work-Poundland.html)
Quote from: HiMucker on January 31, 2012, 11:26:48 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 09:11:32 AM
Well whatever he was getting he was getting far too much. He didn't seem to have any children so I'd imagine he would have to concoct some story to get his own place or do they just hand them out to these wasters when they hit a certain age. If he was only on the brew and getting 50 or 60 pound a week he'd hardly be sitting drinking Magner's, smoking all day and then heading to the chip van to buy his dinner?
Fair enough if they don't want to work but they shouldn't be handed houses to live in for the sake of it. Why would they ever go to work when they can get a house and get everything paid for them?
Mother's such as thon wench with the moustache should be told as well after one or two children that if she has any further children her payments will be stopped. Five children, no father - sure I can live on benefits for the rest of my days...How about, right you have had two children and have never worked in your life and are using your children as a fast track to benefits. Have any more and your payments will be reduced/stopped. You cannot support your children so do not have any more, here's a packet of condoms. Use them or else.
Look there are too many spongers getting too much money for FCUK ALL! However that said, your solution would be catastrophic! If a single parent has more kids, and their benefit is reduced, then it will inturn be harder to raise them, and may lead to kids growing up in poverty or being taken into care because the parent cant afford to raise them. Costing the state even more money.
Its not the celled benefit that should be stopped its the child care benefit that should be stopped! My partner and myself both work full time and have to pay £100 a week in child care. However single unemployed parents or parents on DLA or job seekers allowance get the child care free! So they sit at home and send their kids to the creche! We are now looking to get a place for the kid in a pre school which will save us a bit of money, however these places go to kids whose parent are on job seekers allowance or DLA first. Complete madness and a waste of state money. It makes me seriously angry >:(
There is a trial been conducted in Australia, where a woman on the dole gets an extra 50 dollars a week, if she takes a monthly contraceptive pill. She takes the pill in a pharmacy, hands the cert into the dole office and exta money, its a good solution imo.
Daily Mail reading bastids the lot of you!
Quote from: HiMucker on January 31, 2012, 11:26:48 AM
Look there are too many spongers getting too much money for FCUK ALL! However that said, your solution would be catastrophic! If a single parent has more kids, and their benefit is reduced, then it will inturn be harder to raise them, and may lead to kids growing up in poverty or being taken into care because the parent cant afford to raise them. Costing the state even more money.
Its not the celled benefit that should be stopped its the child care benefit that should be stopped! My partner and myself both work full time and have to pay £100 a week in child care. However single unemployed parents or parents on DLA or job seekers allowance get the child care free! So they sit at home and send their kids to the creche! We are now looking to get a place for the kid in a pre school which will save us a bit of money, however these places go to kids whose parent are on job seekers allowance or DLA first. Complete madness and a waste of state money. It makes me seriously angry >:(
Well that swings both ways, the wife and I have to pay £90 a day for childcare. Why should you get away paying £100 per week and I've to pay £450, taking into account we don't get any tax credits or the like?
Quote from: Ulick on January 31, 2012, 07:12:32 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 31, 2012, 11:26:48 AM
Look there are too many spongers getting too much money for FCUK ALL! However that said, your solution would be catastrophic! If a single parent has more kids, and their benefit is reduced, then it will inturn be harder to raise them, and may lead to kids growing up in poverty or being taken into care because the parent cant afford to raise them. Costing the state even more money.
Its not the celled benefit that should be stopped its the child care benefit that should be stopped! My partner and myself both work full time and have to pay £100 a week in child care. However single unemployed parents or parents on DLA or job seekers allowance get the child care free! So they sit at home and send their kids to the creche! We are now looking to get a place for the kid in a pre school which will save us a bit of money, however these places go to kids whose parent are on job seekers allowance or DLA first. Complete madness and a waste of state money. It makes me seriously angry >:(
Well that swings both ways, the wife and I have to pay £90 a day for childcare. Why should you get away paying £100 per week and I've to pay £450, taking into account we don't get any tax credits or the like?
Jesus, £1800 a month on childcare is brutal. If you're paying that you can obviously afford to pay it ;). It's the squeezed middle that are getting it tight not the scroungers and not moneybags like yourself.
I made a point on another thread some time ago, following the changes to child benefit, that a couple on a single income of 40K with 2 children a car and a mortgage and who would, therefore, be losing their child benefit, would struggle to make ends meet. I was nearly strung up. I still stand by what I said. The fact is that it is these type of people, who get nothing from the state, who are being squeezed. Those people on benefits should be made to do something for society in return for their handouts. And EMA is the worst of all as it actually provides conditions young people from the age of 16 that they can get something for nothing.
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on January 31, 2012, 11:43:23 PM
I made a point on another thread some time ago, following the changes to child benefit, that a couple on a single income of 40K with 2 children a car and a mortgage and who would, therefore, be losing their child benefit, would struggle to make ends meet. I was nearly strung up. I still stand by what I said. The fact is that it is these type of people, who get nothing from the state, who are being squeezed. Those people on benefits should be made to do something for society in return for their handouts. And EMA is the worst of all as it actually provides conditions young people from the age of 16 that they can get something for nothing.
I think it was Pints that lit on everyone so dont take it to heart! You are of course 100% correct.
Quote from: An Gaeilgoir on January 31, 2012, 06:02:49 PM
There is a trial been conducted in Australia, where a woman on the dole gets an extra 50 dollars a week, if she takes a monthly contraceptive pill. She takes the pill in a pharmacy, hands the cert into the dole office and exta money, its a good solution imo.
'Elective Eugenics' - if they can avoid the Nazi connotations they could be on to something there. ;)
http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/scotlandfeatures/4090309/The-Estate-star-Martin-Laverty-I-rescued-three-kids-after-mum-set-house-on-fire-the-horror-drove-me-to-drink.html
Interesting read there, apparently Martin is a hero and hairylip was decorating....
The most telling statement of the lot was the wee lad in the first ten min of the first episode - he had skived school, and the mother was (very half heartedly, laughing away at him as she did so) telling him he had to go to school to get an education so he could earn money, he answered 'sure I'll just have two we'ans and I'll get money'. He was 10 or 11 or so.
Then half the ba**ards resent those who do work becuase they think its unfair that they should have more money then them (which often isn't even the case!)!.
Quote from: Ulick on January 31, 2012, 07:12:32 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on January 31, 2012, 11:26:48 AM
Look there are too many spongers getting too much money for FCUK ALL! However that said, your solution would be catastrophic! If a single parent has more kids, and their benefit is reduced, then it will inturn be harder to raise them, and may lead to kids growing up in poverty or being taken into care because the parent cant afford to raise them. Costing the state even more money.
Its not the celled benefit that should be stopped its the child care benefit that should be stopped! My partner and myself both work full time and have to pay £100 a week in child care. However single unemployed parents or parents on DLA or job seekers allowance get the child care free! So they sit at home and send their kids to the creche! We are now looking to get a place for the kid in a pre school which will save us a bit of money, however these places go to kids whose parent are on job seekers allowance or DLA first. Complete madness and a waste of state money. It makes me seriously angry >:(
Well that swings both ways, the wife and I have to pay £90 a day for childcare. Why should you get away paying £100 per week and I've to pay £450, taking into account we don't get any tax credits or the like?
I don't follow you Ulick? I have one child and pay (after consulting with my financial liaison officer/cook) £135 a week in child care, with no benefits. You either have a troop of kids or your getting seriously ripped off. Interestingly the girlfriend does a 35 hour week in 4 days. She was asked could she do 5 days, however the extra days child care/tax would cost more money than the wage from the extra day. I know its short term until they start school, and sometimes you have to take the hit to see the rewards later in your career. But then again after school care ain't bloody cheap either!
Quote from: HiMucker on February 01, 2012, 10:19:21 AM
I don't follow you Ulick? I have one child and pay (after consulting with my financial liaison officer/cook) £135 a week in child care, with no benefits. You either have a troop of kids or your getting seriously ripped off. Interestingly the girlfriend does a 35 hour week in 4 days. She was asked could she do 5 days, however the extra days child care/tax would cost more money than the wage from the extra day. I know its short term until they start school, and sometimes you have to take the hit to see the rewards later in your career. But then again after school care ain't bloody cheap either!
Mucker my point is, that if you are in receipt of any kind of benefit such as Child Tax Credits, Working Tax Credit, or Childcare Vouchers then you are not really in a position to complain about other people getting benefits lest you are prepared for criticism from those who don't receive any of those benefits and haven't winged about it. I pay child care on two children, at £5 per hour each for 9 hours a day that's £90 and so each month that's my wife's whole wage and then some. We get no tax credits or assistance of any kind, I drive a 9 year old car, live in a nondescript semi, don't have an extravagant subscriptions to Sky, a gym or a fancy phone, my wife is due again at the end of the month and will have to leave work permanently to look after the children - and even after that we'll still not be eligible for child benefit. But you still don't see me coming on message boards complaining about some unfortunate, uneducated, alcoholics who need some help from the state to make their way in life. To each according to their need.
Quote from: Ulick on February 01, 2012, 12:12:30 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 01, 2012, 10:19:21 AM
I don't follow you Ulick? I have one child and pay (after consulting with my financial liaison officer/cook) £135 a week in child care, with no benefits. You either have a troop of kids or your getting seriously ripped off. Interestingly the girlfriend does a 35 hour week in 4 days. She was asked could she do 5 days, however the extra days child care/tax would cost more money than the wage from the extra day. I know its short term until they start school, and sometimes you have to take the hit to see the rewards later in your career. But then again after school care ain't bloody cheap either!
Mucker my point is, that if you are in receipt of any kind of benefit such as Child Tax Credits, Working Tax Credit, or Childcare Vouchers then you are not really in a position to complain about other people getting benefits lest you are prepared for criticism from those who don't receive any of those benefits and haven't winged about it. I pay child care on two children, at £5 per hour each for 9 hours a day that's £90 and so each month that's my wife's whole wage and then some. We get no tax credits or assistance of any kind, I drive a 9 year old car, live in a nondescript semi, don't have an extravagant subscriptions to Sky, a gym or a fancy phone, my wife is due again at the end of the month and will have to leave work permanently to look after the children - and even after that we'll still not be eligible for child benefit. But you still don't see me coming on message boards complaining about some unfortunate, uneducated, alcoholics who need some help from the state to make their way in life. To each according to their need.
Like I said earlier, I receive no child benefit or tax credits, so I will whinge if I want thanks :), despite numerous people saying to the girl to claim single parent benefit (which would make it nearly impossible to get married in the future, because most people who do this, couldn't withstand the drop in income if they did get married.)
To address your second point, I never made any reference to being against state help for alcoholic's or to others who
NEED it. But I find it hard to find any intelligent, sane person to agree that the majority of unemployed people need their child care paid for. Is your argument just that you should accept that its not right, suck it up and get on with it, in some strange attempt to stay true to your socialist believes? To me that doesn't make any sense. That is not socialism, and a lot of politicians are afraid to point it out as it will cost them support.
My very right wing mate reckons the 'lifers' on benefits should be given food stamps rather than cash so they cant throw half of it at fegs and booze if they dont fancy working for any of it, and i'm inclined to agree.
I remember the day you used to be able to get milk and cheese at the Post Office, as part of your benefits. Santino, your mate maybe right, it may have to return to that, to some extend.
Quote from: Santino on February 01, 2012, 04:04:20 PM
My very right wing mate reckons the 'lifers' on benefits should be given food stamps rather than cash so they cant throw half of it at fegs and booze if they dont fancy working for any of it, and i'm inclined to agree.
I think the winter fuel allowance should not be in the form of cash.
Quote from: Minder on February 01, 2012, 04:23:57 PM
Quote from: Santino on February 01, 2012, 04:04:20 PM
My very right wing mate reckons the 'lifers' on benefits should be given food stamps rather than cash so they cant throw half of it at fegs and booze if they dont fancy working for any of it, and i'm inclined to agree.
I think the winter fuel allowance should not be in the form of cash.
[/b]What!! FFS jaysus thats asking for bother. Didnt know that one was easily manipulated
Quote from: HiMucker on February 01, 2012, 05:10:16 PM
Quote from: Minder on February 01, 2012, 04:23:57 PM
Quote from: Santino on February 01, 2012, 04:04:20 PM
My very right wing mate reckons the 'lifers' on benefits should be given food stamps rather than cash so they cant throw half of it at fegs and booze if they dont fancy working for any of it, and i'm inclined to agree.
I think the winter fuel allowance should not be in the form of cash.
[/b]What!! FFS jaysus thats asking for bother. Didnt know that one was easily manipulated
Aye did you not know the hoors burn it in their fires even though it has a low calorific value ;)
i saw this on last night - episode 2 i think it was.
my wife works in housing and she was saying that it must be bad there if they allocated a house to a young single male, as it means that there's not too many on the waiting list.
it would make you sick the amount of benefits they get.
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 11:12:55 AM
In my opinion, anyone who is on benefits and isn't genuinely ill should be out picking rubbish of the street, cleaning grafitti, tidying flower beds, filling in pot holes, etc. to earn their benefits. If they don't do it, they don't get paid...Simples...
would agree 100% with that
Quote from: Minder on January 31, 2012, 12:17:17 PM
There was a marked difference in the couple that both worked and owned their house, he was getting £250 a week working in a warehouse so after paying mortgage etc they probably had less money in their pocket than the wasters on the estate yet their house wasn't like some squat.
people who work or own a house/car will always respect things more
Front page of the Belfast Telegraph today - "Residents go to war over BBC fly-on-wall "stitch up"
The jist of the article is that residents are angry about how the estate is being portrayed
Quote from: ziggysego on February 01, 2012, 04:10:23 PM
I remember the day you used to be able to get milk and cheese at the Post Office, as part of your benefits. Santino, your mate maybe right, it may have to return to that, to some extend.
You still get coupons for childrens milk and I know of a shop in Ardoyne that pays half the value for them and some parents but cigs with the money.Crazy
would any of these people be getting money from the bbc to appear on this show.
i just cant think why anybody in their right mind would want to appear on a show like that unless there was money involved.
Quote from: take_yer_points on February 03, 2012, 11:56:46 AM
Front page of the Belfast Telegraph today - "Residents go to war over BBC fly-on-wall "stitch up"
The jist of the article is that residents are angry about how the estate is being portrayed
As the saying goes, you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. I wonder how these characters expected themselves to be portrayed?
One of them has five children, has never worked and lives off benefits and probably will do for the rest of her life. The children wreck the house and the eldest refuses to go to school.
The next is an alcoholic and while he seems to realise the situation he is in is wrong, he can't get off the booze. He did go off it for a while but it seems that when he realised he had to go to his medical checkup there was a chance he would lose his benefits for being an alcoholic so conveniently he goes back on the sauce a few days before his medical examination.
Next up is a young lad who doesn't work yet gets handed a new home which he openly admits will be used as a party house stating the reason for moving out was that he fell out with his da and he wanted somewhere to have a quiet drink.
Then you have a family who have a child with severe disabilities who struggle to get by with both parents working different shifts. They are trying to get a new house to facilitate their daughters needs but can't get out of there current house. Then it turns out that they could get out in an instant if they didn't work and were on benefits.
Now, in my reckoning the only people who you can have sympathy with is the family with the daughter with a disability. The other families/losers can go an jump if they're looking the sympathy vote, they get enough handed to them without seeking sympathy from a newspaper and the public about how they are being portrayed...
Quote from: clarshack on February 03, 2012, 12:31:32 PM
would any of these people be getting money from the bbc to appear on this show.
i just cant think why anybody in their right mind would want to appear on a show like that unless there was money involved.
I think they got £50 in vouchers for Asda at Christmas and the hairy lipped c**t still had the cheek to complain about that.
I'd agree with much of that screenmachine. I'd maybe have a bit more sympathy than you for the alcoholic.
Quote from: screenmachine on February 03, 2012, 12:40:28 PM
Next up is a young lad who doesn't work yet gets handed a new home which he openly admits will be used as a party house stating the reason for moving out was that he fell out with his da and he wanted somewhere to have a quiet drink.
This would be the same da who came over and cleaned up his house for him and helped him move in, looked like it was a massive fall out. I think he just wanted a place to drink without his parents telling him off for it
Quote from: screenmachine on February 03, 2012, 12:40:28 PM
Then you have a family who have a child with severe disabilities who struggle to get by with both parents working different shifts. They are trying to get a new house to facilitate their daughters needs but can't get out of there current house. Then it turns out that they could get out in an instant if they didn't work and were on benefits.
Now, in my reckoning the only people who you can have sympathy with is the family with the daughter with a disability. The other families/losers can go an jump if they're looking the sympathy vote, they get enough handed to them without seeking sympathy from a newspaper and the public about how they are being portrayed...
Really did feel bad for that family as they work and own their own homes but get feck all help whereas if they had been just lying around all day doing nothing they could have been in a Bungalow already. Also their house was pretty well kept and look quite clean compared to some of the other houses. It looked like they took a bit of care with their house and looked after it unlike some of the others who just had it handed to them.
And that one girl who wanted a job but only one that was for like 4 hours a week
Quote from: clarshack on February 03, 2012, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 11:12:55 AM
In my opinion, anyone who is on benefits and isn't genuinely ill should be out picking rubbish of the street, cleaning grafitti, tidying flower beds, filling in pot holes, etc. to earn their benefits. If they don't do it, they don't get paid...Simples...
would agree 100% with that
Catch yourselves on, both of you.
Quote from: Ulick on February 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 03, 2012, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 11:12:55 AM
In my opinion, anyone who is on benefits and isn't genuinely ill should be out picking rubbish of the street, cleaning grafitti, tidying flower beds, filling in pot holes, etc. to earn their benefits. If they don't do it, they don't get paid...Simples...
would agree 100% with that
Catch yourselves on, both of you.
We are having three people into our work that have been on the dole (long term I think), they will be here for 26 weeks. I take it this has been thrust upon them by the Social Security Agency.
Quote from: Minder on February 03, 2012, 01:40:55 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 03, 2012, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 11:12:55 AM
In my opinion, anyone who is on benefits and isn't genuinely ill should be out picking rubbish of the street, cleaning grafitti, tidying flower beds, filling in pot holes, etc. to earn their benefits. If they don't do it, they don't get paid...Simples...
would agree 100% with that
Catch yourselves on, both of you.
We are having three people into our work that have been on the dole (long term I think), they will be here for 26 weeks. I take it this has been thrust upon them by the Social Security Agency.
About the same level of effort as on the bru then :-*
Quote from: Minder on January 31, 2012, 12:17:17 PM
There was a marked difference in the couple that both worked and owned their house, he was getting £250 a week working in a warehouse so after paying mortgage etc they probably had less money in their pocket than the wasters on the estate yet their house wasn't like some squat.
Agreed. Although I can't understand why anyone would buy a house in a place like that.
Quote from: Ulick on February 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 03, 2012, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 11:12:55 AM
In my opinion, anyone who is on benefits and isn't genuinely ill should be out picking rubbish of the street, cleaning grafitti, tidying flower beds, filling in pot holes, etc. to earn their benefits. If they don't do it, they don't get paid...Simples...
would agree 100% with that
Catch yourselves on, both of you.
Do you think that there is anything wrong with the current benefit system? If so, what changes would you make and why?
Quote from: Minder on February 03, 2012, 01:40:55 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 03, 2012, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 11:12:55 AM
In my opinion, anyone who is on benefits and isn't genuinely ill should be out picking rubbish of the street, cleaning grafitti, tidying flower beds, filling in pot holes, etc. to earn their benefits. If they don't do it, they don't get paid...Simples...
would agree 100% with that
Catch yourselves on, both of you.
We are having three people into our work that have been on the dole (long term I think), they will be here for 26 weeks. I take it this has been thrust upon them by the Social Security Agency.
I've no problem with meaningful work placement but the notion that you would make everyone on the dole go out and pick up litter is just ridiculous. Illdecide for example, a qualified civil engineer, was made redundant last year, are we suggesting he should have been made to go out and clean grafitti rather than prepare himself for finding other work?
I think that's exactly what he should do. After a certain length of time (approx 1 year I'd guess) of claiming benefits I'd contend that he's not trying to get another job. It doesn't have to be as a civil engineer after all. If he needed time to 'prepare' himself for another job he could surely have managed it in that time.
Quote from: Ulick on February 03, 2012, 02:11:26 PM
Quote from: Minder on February 03, 2012, 01:40:55 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 03, 2012, 01:07:36 PM
Quote from: clarshack on February 03, 2012, 11:48:48 AM
Quote from: screenmachine on January 31, 2012, 11:12:55 AM
In my opinion, anyone who is on benefits and isn't genuinely ill should be out picking rubbish of the street, cleaning grafitti, tidying flower beds, filling in pot holes, etc. to earn their benefits. If they don't do it, they don't get paid...Simples...
would agree 100% with that
Catch yourselves on, both of you.
We are having three people into our work that have been on the dole (long term I think), they will be here for 26 weeks. I take it this has been thrust upon them by the Social Security Agency.
I've no problem with meaningful work placement but the notion that you would make everyone on the dole go out and pick up litter is just ridiculous. Illdecide for example, a qualified civil engineer, was made redundant last year, are we suggesting he should have been made to go out and clean grafitti rather than prepare himself for finding other work?
Good point. Doing that would be ridiculous. Benefits should be used for such persons when they need it. I think that is what a good benefits system is about. However picking up litter or cleaning graffiti is agood suggestion, for the long term unemployed (i dont know say five years or so) or people who have never worked a day in their lives. You always have some people milking the system, but our society is at epidemic proportions and it is far beyond a joke, its a disgrace. And the politicians should have the balls to call a spade a spade, however with expenses scandal they are up to their necks in the milking culture as it is.
Quote from: Franko on February 03, 2012, 02:18:08 PM
I think that's exactly what he should do. After a certain length of time (approx 1 year I'd guess) of claiming benefits I'd contend that he's not trying to get another job. It doesn't have to be as a civil engineer after all. If he needed time to 'prepare' himself for another job he could surely have managed it in that time.
This "Steps to Work", run through DEL,initiative is for those on the dole for more than 18 months, it is actually a decent idea in principle and if it helps those that are averse to work to see that it isn't so bad after all then all the better.
These are the heartland voters who can be told what way to vote, so why would politicians rock the boat by pulling their benefits when they are guaranteed their vote. What they are too stupid or just dont care about is the fact that they were used by successive politicians while they lined their pockets in the property market and elsewhere. Now some of these estates on both sides are so far gone that it is the norm just to lay about and do nothing and never expect to have a better life for yourself or those around you. Sad reflection on society.
Its coming to a point where something will have to be done. Not sure what the answer is though.
Point in kind is trying to get people to pay us money at the minute - most of them tradesmen if truth be told and most of them on the dole at present. One today didn't want to set up a small SO from his bank to pay o/s fees from 2009 as he can't be seen to be lodging money and can't call in for a week or so as he has a few jobs to get finished.
Another strange one is that several young fellas who were working have recently headed to Oz or are planning to. The ones not working are still here, very happy to lift the dole, get the rent paid and head out at weekend and have a good time with a few cash in hand jobs alone the way.
I'm sure if i was uo against it, i'd take all i could but the system is at fault if it allows it and can't detect it. Changes needed at this level, people will take advantage if they are allowed. We also have parties that will do all they can to keep the system as it is.
A fairer system would be to pay people benefits pro rata based on their previous NI and income tax contributions to help those who have previously contributed something to the economy/society but have since hit a bit of bad luck. If you dont want to work then you get bottom dollar accordingly.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 03, 2012, 01:53:23 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 31, 2012, 12:17:17 PM
There was a marked difference in the couple that both worked and owned their house, he was getting £250 a week working in a warehouse so after paying mortgage etc they probably had less money in their pocket than the wasters on the estate yet their house wasn't like some squat.
Agreed. Although I can't understand why anyone would buy a house in a place like that.
No doubt cheaper than anywhere else in Coleraine and neither is pulling in big bucks so probably all was available in their price bracket.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 03, 2012, 04:31:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 03, 2012, 01:53:23 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 31, 2012, 12:17:17 PM
There was a marked difference in the couple that both worked and owned their house, he was getting £250 a week working in a warehouse so after paying mortgage etc they probably had less money in their pocket than the wasters on the estate yet their house wasn't like some squat.
Agreed. Although I can't understand why anyone would buy a house in a place like that.
No doubt cheaper than anywhere else in Coleraine and neither is pulling in big bucks so probably all was available in their price bracket.
The fella said he had been a waster for years and got his act together, so he was probably living in it and then bought it from the Housing Executive.
Quote from: Minder on February 03, 2012, 02:34:07 PM
This "Steps to Work", run through DEL,initiative is for those on the dole for more than 18 months, it is actually a decent idea in principle and if it helps those that are averse to work to see that it isn't so bad after all then all the better.
My limited experience of it is that its a scam on behalf of training companies. In Lurgan they offer nothing more than hairdressing and "factory process operative". Would be better giving people the opportunity to learn a skill or trade.
Quote from: Ulick on February 03, 2012, 04:54:12 PM
Quote from: Minder on February 03, 2012, 02:34:07 PM
This "Steps to Work", run through DEL,initiative is for those on the dole for more than 18 months, it is actually a decent idea in principle and if it helps those that are averse to work to see that it isn't so bad after all then all the better.
My limited experience of it is that its a scam on behalf of training companies. In Lurgan they offer nothing more than hairdressing and "factory process operative". Would be better giving people the opportunity to learn a skill or trade.
Would they not have already learnt a trade if they had any interest, in one of the training schemes, and get whatever few quid goes along with it?
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 03, 2012, 04:31:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 03, 2012, 01:53:23 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 31, 2012, 12:17:17 PM
There was a marked difference in the couple that both worked and owned their house, he was getting £250 a week working in a warehouse so after paying mortgage etc they probably had less money in their pocket than the wasters on the estate yet their house wasn't like some squat.
Agreed. Although I can't understand why anyone would buy a house in a place like that.
No doubt cheaper than anywhere else in Coleraine and neither is pulling in big bucks so probably all was available in their price bracket.
I understand that, but then why buy at all.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 04, 2012, 02:13:53 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on February 03, 2012, 04:31:20 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 03, 2012, 01:53:23 PM
Quote from: Minder on January 31, 2012, 12:17:17 PM
There was a marked difference in the couple that both worked and owned their house, he was getting £250 a week working in a warehouse so after paying mortgage etc they probably had less money in their pocket than the wasters on the estate yet their house wasn't like some squat.
Agreed. Although I can't understand why anyone would buy a house in a place like that.
No doubt cheaper than anywhere else in Coleraine and neither is pulling in big bucks so probably all was available in their price bracket.
I understand that, but then why buy at all.
Ask the tens of thousands who bought overpriced houses they could ill afford. A few years ago not owning your own house was akin to having a contagious disease.
Wrong, a few years ago not owning about 3 houses was akin to having a contagious disease
things not going too well in the estate the taxpayer has run out of money to pay for the alcholic worker scheme.. oh lord what will the boys do now? who will take them to the social security office? have a few ciders and drown their sorrows..no doubt. on the bright side one of the many empty houses about the place has been converted to a 'drop in centre' and one of the many spongers has got himself a desk where the taxpayer can put his new computer etc..
maybe the mods can get them on the board.. ;)
Quote from: lawnseed on February 07, 2012, 09:30:00 PM
things not going too well in the estate the taxpayer has run out of money to pay for the alcholic worker scheme.. oh lord what will the boys do now? who will take them to the social security office? have a few ciders and drown their sorrows..no doubt. on the bright side one of the many empty houses about the place has been converted to a 'drop in centre' and one of the many spongers has got himself a desk where the taxpayer can put his new computer etc..
Are you actually a Tory? Or is it just a sectarian thing?
What exactly was the big loss with regard to the support worker? She gave your man a lift to get his money and told him he should take a wee drop less but that looks like all she did.
Quote from: nrico2006 on February 08, 2012, 08:31:34 AM
What exactly was the big loss with regard to the support worker? She gave your man a lift to get his money and told him he should take a wee drop less but that looks like all she did.
Loneliness, depression etc... Support worker can make a big difference in such cases. Is he the boy that ended up tapping himself?
Who?
One of the alcoholics on the programme committed suicide after they finished making it (Martin or Mark?). Heard the producer talking about him on the radio the other week but I've only watched it once so don't know who she was talking about.
How the hell did these guys win a derry county championship in 2010?
Quote from: sheamy on February 08, 2012, 10:55:25 AM
How the hell did these guys win a derry county championship in 2010?
lol. good man sheamy. thought i seen a few mcgoldricks in the background one week alrite ;D
Quote from: Ulick on February 08, 2012, 10:44:55 AM
One of the alcoholics on the programme committed suicide after they finished making it (Martin or Mark?). Heard the producer talking about him on the radio the other week but I've only watched it once so don't know who she was talking about.
There is an online article in the Scottish Sun dated 27th January 2012 with the alcoholic chap Martin interviewed. Unless he had committed suicide very recently.
Lads - any chance of a bit more sensitivity when discussing the estate programme ?
One of the main guys on it is a poster on this board. His gaaboard moniker even gives an insight into his daily battle with the booze.
Ulick - I don't think it was Martin - I have it on good authority he was spotted in Coleraine last week (with his support worker - looks like there is some sort of happy ending on the show and she kept her job :D ). Also it was only last week a lot of the papers last week featured that story about him rescuing the kids from the fire in ballymena.
Just listened to the podcast again:
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/northernireland/nolan/nolan_20120126-1156a.mp3 (http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/northernireland/nolan/nolan_20120126-1156a.mp3)
The guy that killed himself is called Gary. May not have been on it yet, but is in the introductory sequence at the beginning.
Must be the young fella that killed himself? He's tried a few times before.
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 08, 2012, 08:20:30 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 07, 2012, 09:30:00 PM
things not going too well in the estate the taxpayer has run out of money to pay for the alcoholic worker scheme.. oh lord what will the boys do now? who will take them to the social security office? have a few ciders and drown their sorrows..no doubt. on the bright side one of the many empty houses about the place has been converted to a 'drop in centre' and one of the many spongers has got himself a desk where the taxpayer can put his new computer etc..
Are you actually a Tory? Or is it just a sectarian thing?
no i actually the son of a woman who worked all her life and paid tax and now when her home would need some modifications to make it more suitable for her failing health the same housing exec have offered her 12ft of wooden facia board. but she has to get approval first (and it cant be the treated sort). so when i watch my tax money being wasted on these spongers i think I've a right to be a little acidic
Quote from: lawnseed on February 09, 2012, 07:55:26 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 08, 2012, 08:20:30 AM
Quote from: lawnseed on February 07, 2012, 09:30:00 PM
things not going too well in the estate the taxpayer has run out of money to pay for the alcoholic worker scheme.. oh lord what will the boys do now? who will take them to the social security office? have a few ciders and drown their sorrows..no doubt. on the bright side one of the many empty houses about the place has been converted to a 'drop in centre' and one of the many spongers has got himself a desk where the taxpayer can put his new computer etc..
Are you actually a Tory? Or is it just a sectarian thing?
no i actually the son of a woman who worked all her life and paid tax and now when her home would need some modifications to make it more suitable for her failing health the same housing exec have offered her 12ft of wooden facia board. but she has to get approval first (and it cant be the treated sort). so when i watch my tax money being wasted on these spongers i think I've a right to be a little acidic
You really are supporting the wrong political party. You don't even realise it.
That Kelly girl will go far
"Eat the fcukin thing ya bastard"
And the meather shaking the head ....Jesus christ
Quote from: theskull1 on February 13, 2012, 10:49:23 PM
"Eat the fcukin thing ya b**tard"
And the meather shaking the head ....Jesus christ
The pitiful thing about today's society is she will probably get some, or at least seek , some
fame from appearing on this show.
Plenty of Rangers tops and loyalist flute band regallia on display tonight.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 13, 2012, 10:49:23 PM
"Eat the fcukin thing ya b**tard"
And the meather shaking the head ....Jesus christ
The worst thing about working is she wont be able to text! She'll go far.
Quote from: borderfox on February 13, 2012, 11:13:23 PM
Plenty of Rangers tops and loyalist flute band regallia on display tonight.
Well it is an estate in coleraine.
Just seen the following on the boxing thread from one Atticus Finch, "Didn't see you on Monday Night's episode ? hope you will still feature in the future episodes. You are the best thing about the show. Glad to hear Emma is keeping her job, absolute diamond of a girl"
What its got to do with boxing Ill never know but he does raise a valid point reagrding Emma. She is the absolute star of this show. Even when she was staring redundancy in the face the kindness and companiship she showed for her clients was second to none. There is no doubt she wont last long in Coleraine tho and will surely be subject of a big money move before long if she hasnt been poached already.
The work she could do in Lurgan with those battling against the oul wine knows no barriers!
Hold on a sec ML
What kind of work programme is she actually working too? Where is the value for money for the tax payer in what she is actually doing. So far I from what I have seen she takes these drunks to court and sorts out their fines. She makes appointments with them to call round to their 'Free' flats to say to them, try cutting back this week.
I dont doubt for a second that she is a decent girl and the best thing on the show but a country mile, but I for one dont see any value for money in the work she is carrying out.
So because they are dependents they dont deserve to be looked after? Did u not see the tragic events unfold on Monday night? Emma is a girl who is obviously very good at her job and goes over and beyond the call of duty. It is hard when watching the show not to become transfixed with her kind heart and good nature.
Too many people out there quick to judge
Quote from: Mickey Linden on February 16, 2012, 02:10:25 PM
So because they are dependents they dont deserve to be looked after? Did u not see the tragic events unfold on Monday night? Emma is a girl who is obviously very good at her job and goes over and beyond the call of duty. It is hard when watching the show not to become transfixed with her kind heart and good nature.
Too many people out there quick to judge
How do we know she is good at her job? What constitutes being good at her job, how is it measured?
My problem is that there is no incentive for them to do anything other than drink and be on DLA, why would they come off it and work when they are getting more that way.
Yes she comes across well, but I could meet one of those guys on the street and say 'hey Martin, why dont you cut down on the drink next week'. Does that make me good at her job?
Quote from: NAG1 on February 16, 2012, 02:03:56 PM
Hold on a sec ML
What kind of work programme is she actually working too? Where is the value for money for the tax payer in what she is actually doing. So far I from what I have seen she takes these drunks to court and sorts out their fines. She makes appointments with them to call round to their 'Free' flats to say to them, try cutting back this week.
I dont doubt for a second that she is a decent girl and the best thing on the show but a country mile, but I for one dont see any value for money in the work she is carrying out.
I posted something similar the other week. Agree with everything you have said.
Quote from: Mickey Linden on February 16, 2012, 02:10:25 PM
So because they are dependents they dont deserve to be looked after? Did u not see the tragic events unfold on Monday night? Emma is a girl who is obviously very good at her job and goes over and beyond the call of duty. It is hard when watching the show not to become transfixed with her kind heart and good nature.
Too many people out there quick to judge
[/quote ]Are you related to her?
Must be - shes got the handiest job I've ever seen!
Quote from: haranguerer on February 17, 2012, 08:49:06 AM
Must be - shes got the handiest job I've ever seen!
Yeah must be easy dealing with people who are at their lowest ebb. Having to constantly reassure people and hope they can make it through the day. What planet are u on?
I work in an office and at the end of the day I go home and forget all about it. Im sure Emma carries the weight of the world round on her shoulders with her caring nature even when she isnt working. People like this deserve all the credit in the world. Unlike in my job she is actually making a difference in the world.
Aye I'm sure a job that involves young people killing themselves is a right doss! Some idiots on this thread!
Anyone who thinks a social worker has a handy job is deluded.
There's been a series on BBC recently following childrens' social workers around - would break your heart just watching it, never mind dealing with it every day.
Shes not a social worker. Social work is definitely tough going, childrens social work most of all.
She seems like a nice girl, and is doing admirable work, but it still seems like a handy number, made better by the fact that she can feel her work is contributing in some way to a better society. Of course you would need to be able to switch off at the end of the day, thats true of any job, and while some may be more easy to switch off from than others, thats not relevant to how handy they are.
I take it she's a support worker of some kind then?
Even so, dealing with other people's problems all day, some of whom no more want or deserve to be helped, would be far from handy.
Spare me the liberal BS on this please.
These drunks are a drain on our society and instead of letting them get on with their 'life choices' what do we do, give them a free flat and give them a wee buddy who calls round to the see them every week wee chat and pat on the back oh yeah and collects money to pay their fines. What else oh yeah drives them to the job centre so they can sign up for DLA.
Is there something wrong with this picture? Most people on here working their asses off to earn a living for their family and what do we end up paying for? These drunks to have somewhere to live, to have drinking money and to have a support worker to tell them to calm down when they are going off the rails a bit.
You may think I am being very harsh but I am sick sore and tired of watching people like this take the hand out of me and my colleagues, with this sense of entitlement that we some how will pay for them to do what they like for the rest of their lives.
Please some one tell me where I am wrong?
Quote from: NAG1 on February 17, 2012, 02:43:42 PM
Spare me the liberal BS on this please.
These drunks are a drain on our society and instead of letting them get on with their 'life choices' what do we do, give them a free flat and give them a wee buddy who calls round to the see them every week wee chat and pat on the back oh yeah and collects money to pay their fines. What else oh yeah drives them to the job centre so they can sign up for DLA.
Is there something wrong with this picture? Most people on here working their asses off to earn a living for their family and what do we end up paying for? These drunks to have somewhere to live, to have drinking money and to have a support worker to tell them to calm down when they are going off the rails a bit.
You may think I am being very harsh but I am sick sore and tired of watching people like this take the hand out of me and my colleagues, with this sense of entitlement that we some how will pay for them to do what they like for the rest of their lives.
Please some one tell me where I am wrong?
I bet you where happy that one of these "drains on society" happened to have drowned during the making of the show?
One less sponger eh?
Quote from: NAG1 on February 17, 2012, 02:43:42 PM
Spare me the liberal BS on this please.
These drunks are a drain on our society and instead of letting them get on with their 'life choices' what do we do, give them a free flat and give them a wee buddy who calls round to the see them every week wee chat and pat on the back oh yeah and collects money to pay their fines. What else oh yeah drives them to the job centre so they can sign up for DLA.
Is there something wrong with this picture? Most people on here working their asses off to earn a living for their family and what do we end up paying for? These drunks to have somewhere to live, to have drinking money and to have a support worker to tell them to calm down when they are going off the rails a bit.
You may think I am being very harsh but I am sick sore and tired of watching people like this take the hand out of me and my colleagues, with this sense of entitlement that we some how will pay for them to do what they like for the rest of their lives.
Please some one tell me where I am wrong?
Il give it a go. Earlier in this thread I was critical of some of the benefit schemes. However alcholism is completely different. I wouldnt at all agree with the benefit towards their drinking money, but they need all the help they can get in battling their ILLNESS. A good society is one that looks after its weak and vunerable. Alcholism is a condition, an heriditary condition at times, and I would go as far to say it is one that affects every family. I dont think we can just cast these people aside, and say "let them deal with their live choices". You wouldnt do that to a cancer suffer now would you? It is most definetly an area that needs more help not less. However I would reiterate that giving them an allowance to buy drink does not help at all.
There was a documentary I seen a while back. It was a about a troop of monkey that lived near a tourist spot in India. The monkeys would come and do a bit of "mine sweeping", ldrinking lefover drink and that. Researchers studied their behaviour, and what they found was that some monkeys took a wee drink, some took alot and staggered back to the trees, some got absoultely magnered occasionally, some got plastered on a regulary basis and some didnt touch a drop at all. Over time they found that percentages of each group, ie: social drinkers, alcholics and pioneers was nearly identical to the human population. I guess some monkeys just make poor life choices!
Quote from: NAG1 on February 17, 2012, 02:43:42 PM
Spare me the liberal BS on this please.
These drunks are a drain on our society and instead of letting them get on with their 'life choices' what do we do, give them a free flat and give them a wee buddy who calls round to the see them every week wee chat and pat on the back oh yeah and collects money to pay their fines. What else oh yeah drives them to the job centre so they can sign up for DLA.
Is there something wrong with this picture? Most people on here working their asses off to earn a living for their family and what do we end up paying for? These drunks to have somewhere to live, to have drinking money and to have a support worker to tell them to calm down when they are going off the rails a bit.
You may think I am being very harsh but I am sick sore and tired of watching people like this take the hand out of me and my colleagues, with this sense of entitlement that we some how will pay for them to do what they like for the rest of their lives.
Please some one tell me where I am wrong?
Dry your eyes
I said a social/support worker didn't have a handy job
Quote from: HiMucker on February 17, 2012, 03:10:13 PM
There was a documentary I seen a while back. It was a about a troop of monkey that lived near a tourist spot in India. The monkeys would come and do a bit of "mine sweeping", ldrinking lefover drink and that. Researchers studied their behaviour, and what they found was that some monkeys took a wee drink, some took alot and staggered back to the trees, some got absoultely magnered occasionally, some got plastered on a regulary basis and some didnt touch a drop at all. Over time they found that percentages of each group, ie: social drinkers, alcholics and pioneers was nearly identical to the human population. I guess some monkeys just make poor life choices!
So much win in that post :D :D
Monkeys drinking :D LOL
Quote from: Christmas Lights on February 17, 2012, 03:14:48 PM
Quote from: HiMucker on February 17, 2012, 03:10:13 PM
There was a documentary I seen a while back. It was a about a troop of monkey that lived near a tourist spot in India. The monkeys would come and do a bit of "mine sweeping", ldrinking lefover drink and that. Researchers studied their behaviour, and what they found was that some monkeys took a wee drink, some took alot and staggered back to the trees, some got absoultely magnered occasionally, some got plastered on a regulary basis and some didnt touch a drop at all. Over time they found that percentages of each group, ie: social drinkers, alcholics and pioneers was nearly identical to the human population. I guess some monkeys just make poor life choices!
So much win in that post :D :D
Monkeys drinking :D LOL
Here the spell check was nt working and my poof reader is on his lunch :) That was deliberate by the way!
If the support worker manages to help one or two alcoholics get on the straight and narrow, then she's doing a very valuable job. I was surprised that she visits these men in their homes on her own. Is that normal? It seems like a very vulnerable position for a young woman to be in.
I'm all for giving these people as much support as possible. I can't understand however, why they qualify for DLA rather than just the basic unemployment benefit. Surely this just gives them cash to buy alcohol, thereby perpetuating the problem(?) Is there no better way this money can be used to benefit these people, without giving them cash?
I don't know why people are getting so het up about the money given to people with drink problems from an economic point of view as they spend it all on booze which a lot goes directly back to the government in taxes and local on and off trade businesses. I would be more concerned from a health perspective in terms of having more income they are able to consume more alcohol and cause more harm to themselves (and potentially others).
Quote from: NAG1 on February 17, 2012, 02:43:42 PM
Spare me the liberal BS on this please.
These drunks are a drain on our society and instead of letting them get on with their 'life choices' what do we do, give them a free flat and give them a wee buddy who calls round to the see them every week wee chat and pat on the back oh yeah and collects money to pay their fines. What else oh yeah drives them to the job centre so they can sign up for DLA.
Is there something wrong with this picture? Most people on here working their asses off to earn a living for their family and what do we end up paying for? These drunks to have somewhere to live, to have drinking money and to have a support worker to tell them to calm down when they are going off the rails a bit.
You may think I am being very harsh but I am sick sore and tired of watching people like this take the hand out of me and my colleagues, with this sense of entitlement that we some how will pay for them to do what they like for the rest of their lives.
Please some one tell me where I am wrong?
What f**king planet do you live on? Do you honestly think people just wake up one morning and decide they're going to drink for the rest of their lives?
As someone who has seen the devestating effects alcoholism has on a person and their family I am more than happy to see these people get all the support they can. You branding it as a drain on society is pathetic.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on February 17, 2012, 04:19:10 PM
As someone who has seen the devestating effects alcoholism has on a person and their family I am more than happy to see these people get all the support they can. You branding it as a drain on society is pathetic.
Are you saying its not a drain on society? It is an emotive issue; I dont agree that alcoholics etc should be cast to the wind, but nags viewpoint is certainly understandable. No matter what anyone says too, while many may have found themselves on a downward spiral for whatever reason, theres also a fair few alcos who have noone to blame but themselves. None of them should be on DLA either.
Its all getting off the topic though - she has a wild handy job. Personally I think theres f**k all chance of her ever getting anyone off the drink, it actually seems like her visits are probably another reason for most of them to keep drinking, but sure its keeping them happy and keeping her in work, so let her plough on
did ya see that **** that started the band, i the wan that cant get a job for 10 years useless bastard no intention of work make ya sick take the son to the bru ta get another slice o my tax any workin man that was selfemployed and has went outta work would get f**k all but these hoors that have never done anything get the fukin works they have all the big tvs cars and the works his wife earned 150 a week the c***ts need gased
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 04:15:44 PM
If the support worker manages to help one or two alcoholics get on the straight and narrow, then she's doing a very valuable job. I was surprised that she visits these men in their homes on her own. Is that normal? It seems like a very vulnerable position for a young woman to be in.
I'm all for giving these people as much support as possible. I can't understand however, why they qualify for DLA rather than just the basic unemployment benefit. Surely this just gives them cash to buy alcohol, thereby perpetuating the problem(?) Is there no better way this money can be used to benefit these people, without giving them cash?
Support work is good, but she would need to be trying to engage the problem drinkers with specialist treatment to detox etc... to really help them, it seemed most of her time was spent transporting them and dealing with paperwork. I would presume that they have a lone worker policy in place which she would have to ring in to the office before and after visits and have a procedure in place if she felt at risk.
Totally agree on your second paragraph (I posted a similar point at the same time), perhaps they should be given food stamps in the same way I think child benefit should not be cash but vouchers only usable for providing the
children with clothes, food etc...
Quote from: 02 on February 17, 2012, 04:18:58 PM
I don't know why people are getting so het up about the money given to people with drink problems from an economic point of view as they spend it all on booze which a lot goes directly back to the government in taxes and local on and off trade businesses. I would be more concerned from a health perspective in terms of having more income they are able to consume more alcohol and cause more harm to themselves (and potentially others).
You then have to look at the cost to the NHS of dealing with alcoholic related illnesses. The DLA would be better channelled into ways of helping these people, be it support workers or treatment. The support workers would probably need a bit of a "carrot and stick" approach as I have no doubt that girl in the Estate is doing her best but there seems to be no incentive for those chaps to get off the drink. I also think there is an element of them having to do it themselves and all the support workers in the world isn't going to make a difference if they don't want to quit.
Quote from: Minder on February 17, 2012, 07:11:59 PM
You then have to look at the cost to the NHS of dealing with alcoholic related illnesses. The DLA would be better channelled into ways of helping these people, be it support workers or treatment. The support workers would probably need a bit of a "carrot and stick" approach as I have no doubt that girl in the Estate is doing her best but there seems to be no incentive for those chaps to get off the drink. I also think there is an element of them having to do it themselves and all the support workers in the world isn't going to make a difference if they don't want to quit.
Definitely, can't fault what you say, support is good as long as it is not monetary.
Quote from: the waffler on February 17, 2012, 05:39:31 PM
did ya see that **** that started the band, i the wan that cant get a job for 10 years useless b**tard no intention of work make ya sick take the son to the bru ta get another slice o my tax any workin man that was selfemployed and has went outta work would get f**k all but these hoors that have never done anything get the fukin works they have all the big tvs cars and the works his wife earned 150 a week the c***ts need gased
and
breathe
Quote from: Maguire01 on February 17, 2012, 08:15:23 PM
Quote from: the waffler on February 17, 2012, 05:39:31 PM
did ya see that **** that started the band, i the wan that cant get a job for 10 years useless b**tard no intention of work make ya sick take the son to the bru ta get another slice o my tax any workin man that was selfemployed and has went outta work would get f**k all but these hoors that have never done anything get the fukin works they have all the big tvs cars and the works his wife earned 150 a week the c***ts need gased
and breathe
He was like a drill sergeant/agony aunt this week, I suppose in his own way he is helping to create a bit of community spirit. The first non-depressing storyline of the whole series this week when a single mother went back to college and managed to get accepted onto a social work degree at the University of Ulster...well done her!
Guys i was told today that my name had been brought up in this thread so for the 1st time i just read through it there...I for one am not looking any sympathy from anyone on here and for a man who worked un interupted for 22 years i was always always the guys who said "if a fellas not working after a year then he doesn't want work" but that all came when i was working away with no worries. How things change...i was made redundant last Feb and have still not had any joy on the job front (didn't start applying for jobs until June as i was on crutches for 3 months) from June till now I've applied for approx 80 vacancies and have had 2 interviews which were unsuccessful, i recently started to apply for jobs in the lower paid sector and I'm still not getting any joy...WTF like. I served an apprenticeship in Engineering as well and can't even get back into that.
Don't even start me on Government handouts...i got £67.50 a week on the bru for 26 weeks and was then told (nicely) to f**k off, i haven't had a payment from Sept 1st because my wife works part time. Yes we get credits but it doesn't even cover my mortgage let alone heat, food and car etc...now hoe the feck all these people from that programme get the money they say is beyond me...
Now there were a few comments about i should go out and remove graffiti and clean the streets...well pay me for it and I'll be the 1st man with a brush in my hand...or maybe i should do it for free as i don't get the bru and then try and pay a baby minder for my 2 kids. I'd shovel shite if i got the money for doing so...so please don't tar me with the same brush as them edjits on that show...
Ironically, your last sentence is a lot more of a generalisation - lumping all the people on the estate together - than anything on this thread. Any posts I've seen have been in response to circumstances/actions of specific individuals and those in similar circumstances, or with a similar (lack of) propensity for work, not the estate, or any social class, as a whole.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on February 17, 2012, 04:19:10 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 17, 2012, 02:43:42 PM
Spare me the liberal BS on this please.
These drunks are a drain on our society and instead of letting them get on with their 'life choices' what do we do, give them a free flat and give them a wee buddy who calls round to the see them every week wee chat and pat on the back oh yeah and collects money to pay their fines. What else oh yeah drives them to the job centre so they can sign up for DLA.
Is there something wrong with this picture? Most people on here working their asses off to earn a living for their family and what do we end up paying for? These drunks to have somewhere to live, to have drinking money and to have a support worker to tell them to calm down when they are going off the rails a bit.
You may think I am being very harsh but I am sick sore and tired of watching people like this take the hand out of me and my colleagues, with this sense of entitlement that we some how will pay for them to do what they like for the rest of their lives.
Please some one tell me where I am wrong?
What f**king planet do you live on? Do you honestly think people just wake up one morning and decide they're going to drink for the rest of their lives?
As someone who has seen the devestating effects alcoholism has on a person and their family I am more than happy to see these people get all the support they can. You branding it as a drain on society is pathetic.
I was looking at simply from a the point of view of the girls role in this documentary. Which I see as vague at best.
I am sorry that you have been touched by alcoholism in your life and I am not playing down its devastating nature. My issue is simply that we as in society are paying for this support/ social worker to do what and we are giving the alcoholics money to do what? At the end of the day are we helping them by giving them cash in their hand no!
Is it a drain on precious resources in this society yes. Would I rather see my money spent on schooling, NHS, community development, work schemes you name it, yes.
Highlights half the problem in the world when we just become so accepting of this type of behaviour. Dont get me wrong there should be properly funded treatment for these people, with clearly thought out work programmes for them and if they dont adhere to this then time to rethink their needs/ benefits.
Perhaps we weren't mentioning the correct benefits scheme - DLA, ESA, etc. I don't pretend to be an expert on the situation but any point I was trying to make earlier in the thread was as simple as this:
Mr A worked for ten years, paying his taxes, national insurance, etc. Mr A has recently become unemployed but is actively seeking another job. Mr A now receives benefits, JSA I presume, to the tune of about £60-70 per week. If Mr A has a family this may be increased, I'm not sure. Let's pretend he has no family and it stays at the above total.
Moving on to Mr B. Mr B perhaps worked a while ago but hasn't worked for lets say ten years. Mr B is an alcoholic, and lets pretend he has no children so we can make the comparison with Mr A. Mr B gets perhaps 3-4 times (a rough estimate) the amount of money Mr A gets and may also get his rent paid, heating allowance, etc.
Yes Mr B is an alcoholic and yes alcoholism is a disease, but how does this qualify Mr B any more than Mr A to receive a substantial amount more in his benefits package each week. Surely Mr A who has contributed for X number of years to the system through tax and national insurance contributions deserves to be treated better than someone who has contributed nothing or very little? How does this extra money help him to beat his alcoholism? Surely it encourages it by giving him access to more money than usual to buy more alcohol and therefore makes his problems worse.
If alcoholics got the same benefits package as your average Joe Bloggs there would be a lot less registered alcoholics due to the fact that there would be no financial benefits to being an alcoholic. You do not defeat a disease by giving people who suffer from it access to the very thing that causes it. Give them the same amount of benefits and access to people or programs that can help them.
Just saw this weeks show last night - I see the one whos for Uni isnt from there, but was placed in emeregncy housing there when came back from canada. Your boy noel has the life of an 8 year old gang leader - rounding up the lads to build bonfires and practice drumming. No wonder the 12th bonfires are so big with such a shower of useless f**kers available to organise them.
Pmsl at kelly ann as usual - 'Kelly ann is feelign the effects of a night out with her mum' - cut to kelly ann badly hungover and trying to hide a load of lovebites.
Quote from: screenmachine on February 23, 2012, 12:44:59 PM
Perhaps we weren't mentioning the correct benefits scheme - DLA, ESA, etc. I don't pretend to be an expert on the situation but any point I was trying to make earlier in the thread was as simple as this:
Mr A worked for ten years, paying his taxes, national insurance, etc. Mr A has recently become unemployed but is actively seeking another job. Mr A now receives benefits, JSA I presume, to the tune of about £60-70 per week. If Mr A has a family this may be increased, I'm not sure. Let's pretend he has no family and it stays at the above total.
Moving on to Mr B. Mr B perhaps worked a while ago but hasn't worked for lets say ten years. Mr B is an alcoholic, and lets pretend he has no children so we can make the comparison with Mr A. Mr B gets perhaps 3-4 times (a rough estimate) the amount of money Mr A gets and may also get his rent paid, heating allowance, etc.
Yes Mr B is an alcoholic and yes alcoholism is a disease, but how does this qualify Mr B any more than Mr A to receive a substantial amount more in his benefits package each week. Surely Mr A who has contributed for X number of years to the system through tax and national insurance contributions deserves to be treated better than someone who has contributed nothing or very little? How does this extra money help him to beat his alcoholism? Surely it encourages it by giving him access to more money than usual to buy more alcohol and therefore makes his problems worse.
If alcoholics got the same benefits package as your average Joe Bloggs there would be a lot less registered alcoholics due to the fact that there would be no financial benefits to being an alcoholic. You do not defeat a disease by giving people who suffer from it access to the very thing that causes it. Give them the same amount of benefits and access to people or programs that can help them.
I see where you're coming from but that's a bit of a generalisation. If you ever talk to a recovering alcoholic you'll find they say they were born an alcoholic. It has nothing to do with the availability or the cost of alcohol. It's a disease that they can no more control than say you could control diabeties. No-one knows they have the disease until it's too late and by that stage the damage may well be done, in that they could have lost their job or family or both. There is no evidence that reducing the money available to an alcoholic will result in less alcoholism, in fact I would go the other way and suggest it may lead to higher crime rates as they could turn to crime to fund the drink. I'm no expert on it, but I do know that cutting off money would have little or no effect.
the estate remix
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y2BnEtOLUQ&feature=share
starts of slow but worth the watch
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 24, 2012, 02:25:49 PM
Quote from: screenmachine on February 23, 2012, 12:44:59 PM
Perhaps we weren't mentioning the correct benefits scheme - DLA, ESA, etc. I don't pretend to be an expert on the situation but any point I was trying to make earlier in the thread was as simple as this:
Mr A worked for ten years, paying his taxes, national insurance, etc. Mr A has recently become unemployed but is actively seeking another job. Mr A now receives benefits, JSA I presume, to the tune of about £60-70 per week. If Mr A has a family this may be increased, I'm not sure. Let's pretend he has no family and it stays at the above total.
Moving on to Mr B. Mr B perhaps worked a while ago but hasn't worked for lets say ten years. Mr B is an alcoholic, and lets pretend he has no children so we can make the comparison with Mr A. Mr B gets perhaps 3-4 times (a rough estimate) the amount of money Mr A gets and may also get his rent paid, heating allowance, etc.
Yes Mr B is an alcoholic and yes alcoholism is a disease, but how does this qualify Mr B any more than Mr A to receive a substantial amount more in his benefits package each week. Surely Mr A who has contributed for X number of years to the system through tax and national insurance contributions deserves to be treated better than someone who has contributed nothing or very little? How does this extra money help him to beat his alcoholism? Surely it encourages it by giving him access to more money than usual to buy more alcohol and therefore makes his problems worse.
If alcoholics got the same benefits package as your average Joe Bloggs there would be a lot less registered alcoholics due to the fact that there would be no financial benefits to being an alcoholic. You do not defeat a disease by giving people who suffer from it access to the very thing that causes it. Give them the same amount of benefits and access to people or programs that can help them.
I see where you're coming from but that's a bit of a generalisation. If you ever talk to a recovering alcoholic you'll find they say they were born an alcoholic. It has nothing to do with the availability or the cost of alcohol. It's a disease that they can no more control than say you could control diabeties. No-one knows they have the disease until it's too late and by that stage the damage may well be done, in that they could have lost their job or family or both. There is no evidence that reducing the money available to an alcoholic will result in less alcoholism, in fact I would go the other way and suggest it may lead to higher crime rates as they could turn to crime to fund the drink. I'm no expert on it, but I do know that cutting off money would have little or no effect.
I agree that Alcoholism is a disease but to say that it's like Diabetes doesn't make sense. If a diabetic doesn't get insulin they might die. If an Alcoholic doesn't get Alcohol they're better off.
Gambling addiction would be on a par with Acoholism yet nobody is advocating giving them more money. In my opinion if dropping funding for Alcoholics has no great effect then why not do it? Pump the money into schemes to combat addiction rather than feed the habit!
screenmachine, tbrick, now exile, is the next series coming from Glenelly Villas i wonder ? Excuse in already !
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 24, 2012, 02:25:49 PM
If you ever talk to a recovering alcoholic you'll find they say they were born an alcoholic. It has nothing to do with the availability or the cost of alcohol. It's a disease that they can no more control than say you could control diabeties.
Absolute bollocks imo. Some people may be more inclined to overindulge, in drink/food/drugs, whatever. The majority of its still down to them however. Of course if you talk to a recovering alcoholic he'll say he was born with it - you wont find too many people, no matter how much they pretend to be, who are fully honest, even with themselves, and will say, you know what, it was my fault.
Defining alcoholism as a disease has always left me scratching my head, how can something self inflicted be classified as such? When it has a hold it isn't pleasant but the process of becoming one surely should be outside anyones definition of a disease? A lot of Sociological, Personality & Psychological contributors / issues obviously, but a disease? Not for me.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on February 25, 2012, 01:45:18 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on February 25, 2012, 12:49:56 AM
Quote from: tbrick18 on February 24, 2012, 02:25:49 PM
If you ever talk to a recovering alcoholic you'll find they say they were born an alcoholic. It has nothing to do with the availability or the cost of alcohol. It's a disease that they can no more control than say you could control diabeties.
Absolute bollocks imo. Some people may be more inclined to overindulge, in drink/food/drugs, whatever. The majority of its still down to them however. Of course if you talk to a recovering alcoholic he'll say he was born with it - you wont find too many people, no matter how much they pretend to be, who are fully honest, even with themselves, and will say, you know what, it was my fault.
We all have weaknesses, some of us are just better at hiding them or not succumbing to them.
Exactly, and those who are more prone to succumbing do deserve sympathy and help, but it does noone any good to remove their own responsbility from the issue. Lord knows people are generally good enough at kidding themselves without a host of do-gooders backing them up and tellign them its not their fault also.
I am really pleased to see the last few posters saying that having an alcohol problem is NOT a disease. Addiction is a complex phenomenon with lots of contributing factors, including biological i.e. genetic and environmental i.e. social and psychological. It is much too easy to conceptualise it as a disease, as a disease is pathology of body cells, this may be a consequence of addiction such as liver disease but not the cause. As the previous posters have said by saying they have a disease you invariably need a cure, which is something that has to be done on them and not something that they have control over, so it removes personal responsibility from the equation which is wrong in my opinion.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 13, 2012, 10:49:23 PM
"Eat the fcukin thing ya b**tard"
And the meather shaking the head ....Jesus christ
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/422785_373828685979581_100000573573308_1279228_1035402280_n.jpg)
Quote from: 02 on February 25, 2012, 12:09:59 PM
I am really pleased to see the last few posters saying that having an alcohol problem is NOT a disease. Addiction is a complex phenomenon with lots of contributing factors, including biological i.e. genetic and environmental i.e. social and psychological. It is much too easy to conceptualise it as a disease, as a disease is pathology of body cells, this may be a consequence of addiction such as liver disease but not the cause. As the previous posters have said by saying they have a disease you invariably need a cure, which is something that has to be done on them and not something that they have control over, so it removes personal responsibility from the equation which is wrong in my opinion.
I know plenty of alkies that have gone for a cure the next morning but none of them visited a doctor.
The term 'alcoholism' is synonymous with the disease model and although it is used by the public and some medics, addiction experts have renounced this term from the late 1970s and both ICD10 and DSMIV - the current diagnostic manuals for clinicians use the term alcohol dependence for those who are physically and/or psychologically dependent on alcohol.
My Monday nights will no longer be the same now with the Estate having come to a conclusion.
I wonder when the boxset is out ?
Hopefully they'll do a show in 5 years time to see how the main characters are getting on .... I predict that:
- Martin will be running the country.
- Kyle's marriage to the 16 year old will for some supernatural reason not work out
- Noel will still be doing work on the house but his band will win awards throughout the country.
- Kelly Ann will have turned her life around and becomes a teacher who has a no nonsense attitude for truancy.
- In all seriousness hopefully that couple with the kid with Spina bifida get their bungalow - only ones that came across as thoroughly decent. You'd imagine that someone would be helping them out now after them appearing on the programme.
Quote from: Atticus_Finch on March 13, 2012, 10:45:10 AM
My Monday nights will no longer be the same now with the Estate having come to a conclusion.
I wonder when the boxset is out ?
Hopefully they'll do a show in 5 years time to see how the main characters are getting on .... I predict that:
- Martin will be running the country.
- Kyle's marriage to the 16 year old will for some supernatural reason not work out
- Noel will still be doing work on the house but his band will win awards throughout the country.
- Kelly Ann will have turned her life around and becomes a teacher who has a no nonsense attitude for truancy.
- In all seriousness hopefully that couple with the kid with Spina bifida get their bungalow - only ones that came across as thoroughly decent. You'd imagine that someone would be helping them out now after them appearing on the programme.
to be fair, the 2 Emma girls were decent. The alco support worker and the blade who was boxing last night and went to uni
Good to see an alcohol support worker not afraid to fire out the shots . . . .
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s320x320/419259_10150610634972709_727162708_9385299_347956121_n.jpg)
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on March 13, 2012, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: Atticus_Finch on March 13, 2012, 10:45:10 AM
My Monday nights will no longer be the same now with the Estate having come to a conclusion.
I wonder when the boxset is out ?
Hopefully they'll do a show in 5 years time to see how the main characters are getting on .... I predict that:
- Martin will be running the country.
- Kyle's marriage to the 16 year old will for some supernatural reason not work out
- Noel will still be doing work on the house but his band will win awards throughout the country.
- Kelly Ann will have turned her life around and becomes a teacher who has a no nonsense attitude for truancy.
- In all seriousness hopefully that couple with the kid with Spina bifida get their bungalow - only ones that came across as thoroughly decent. You'd imagine that someone would be helping them out now after them appearing on the programme.
to be fair, the 2 Emma girls were decent. The alco support worker and the blade who was boxing last night and went to uni
The one who was boxing was a sickening ****.
The other one was a nice girl, but she was no mother teresa. From the pic she was workgin both angles it seems too :)
The one who was boxing was a bit of a melter but in fairness to her she seems as if she hasn't had the easiest life and always made an attempt to have a smile on her face even if that smile had ulterior motives .... i.e. taking advantage of the good natured Noel and his fence building expertise.
No complaints about the support worker either, she did seem to be a good girl with a good heart. Although she should no how to distinguish between a death threat and a bit of "1970s Londonderry Banter" !
Marty made an appearance for the first time in a long time - heard he got in a bit of trouble which prevented him from appearing in the later editions of the show.
Quote from: Atticus_Finch on March 13, 2012, 01:57:19 PM
No complaints about the support worker either, she did seem to be a good girl with a good heart. Although she should no how to distinguish between a death threat and a bit of "1970s Londonderry Banter" !
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: haranguerer on March 13, 2012, 01:25:19 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on March 13, 2012, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: Atticus_Finch on March 13, 2012, 10:45:10 AM
My Monday nights will no longer be the same now with the Estate having come to a conclusion.
I wonder when the boxset is out ?
Hopefully they'll do a show in 5 years time to see how the main characters are getting on .... I predict that:
- Martin will be running the country.
- Kyle's marriage to the 16 year old will for some supernatural reason not work out
- Noel will still be doing work on the house but his band will win awards throughout the country.
- Kelly Ann will have turned her life around and becomes a teacher who has a no nonsense attitude for truancy.
- In all seriousness hopefully that couple with the kid with Spina bifida get their bungalow - only ones that came across as thoroughly decent. You'd imagine that someone would be helping them out now after them appearing on the programme.
to be fair, the 2 Emma girls were decent. The alco support worker and the blade who was boxing last night and went to uni
The one who was boxing was a sickening ****.
The other one was a nice girl, but she was no mother teresa. From the pic she was workgin both angles it seems too :)
Yeah I found the one that was boxing a pain in the arse.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 13, 2012, 01:25:19 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on March 13, 2012, 12:05:02 PM
Quote from: Atticus_Finch on March 13, 2012, 10:45:10 AM
My Monday nights will no longer be the same now with the Estate having come to a conclusion.
I wonder when the boxset is out ?
Hopefully they'll do a show in 5 years time to see how the main characters are getting on .... I predict that:
- Martin will be running the country.
- Kyle's marriage to the 16 year old will for some supernatural reason not work out
- Noel will still be doing work on the house but his band will win awards throughout the country.
- Kelly Ann will have turned her life around and becomes a teacher who has a no nonsense attitude for truancy.
- In all seriousness hopefully that couple with the kid with Spina bifida get their bungalow - only ones that came across as thoroughly decent. You'd imagine that someone would be helping them out now after them appearing on the programme.
to be fair, the 2 Emma girls were decent. The alco support worker and the blade who was boxing last night and went to uni
The one who was boxing was a sickening ****.
The other one was a nice girl, but she was no mother teresa. From the pic she was workgin both angles it seems too :)
Which angle would you be working Emma at? ;)
Quote from: ziggysego on March 13, 2012, 02:36:51 PM
Quote from: Atticus_Finch on March 13, 2012, 01:57:19 PM
No complaints about the support worker either, she did seem to be a good girl with a good heart. Although she should no how to distinguish between a death threat and a bit of "1970s Londonderry Banter" !
;D ;D ;D
It's an aul 70s expression, you know, I'll rip your head off, I'll f**king kill ya... It was drunken disorderly in them days but now it is threats to kill....
Poor Jim, he really did a good job defending himself!
Anyone watch "Trouble on the estate" on bbc1 ?
That oul f**ker that spent her day rolling cigarettes needed a good kick in the arse. She was "angry" that the Jobcentre called her in to try and get her a job, and she said she was on that much medication she wouldn't be able to work.
Quote from: Minder on September 11, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
Anyone watch "Trouble on the estate" on bbc1 ?
That oul f**ker that spent her day rolling cigarettes needed a good kick in the arse. She was "angry" that the Jobcentre called her in to try and get her a job, and she said she was on that much medication she wouldn't be able to work.
Recorded. What city? Would say the same applies in any city!
Quote from: Tony Baloney on September 11, 2012, 10:12:27 PM
Quote from: Minder on September 11, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
Anyone watch "Trouble on the estate" on bbc1 ?
That oul f**ker that spent her day rolling cigarettes needed a good kick in the arse. She was "angry" that the Jobcentre called her in to try and get her a job, and she said she was on that much medication she wouldn't be able to work.
Recorded. What city? Would say the same applies in any city!
Blackburn
Quote from: Minder on September 11, 2012, 10:00:16 PM
Anyone watch "Trouble on the estate" on bbc1 ?
That oul f**ker that spent her day rolling cigarettes needed a good kick in the arse. She was "angry" that the Jobcentre called her in to try and get her a job, and she said she was on that much medication she wouldn't be able to work.
Watched it. Yer woman is a sc**bag.
Only one fella interested in working. Rest don't see the point.
The one lad who seemed interested in working I feel had less than those who did nothing. That show summarised a lot of the problems associated with welfare in the UK and the attitude of "why work when you get the same if you sign on."
That lady who rolled joints all day wound me up!
It also showed that a lot of people who get into trouble in life don't stand much of a chance when they are brought up in these areas.
The doll that had 4 children to 3 different men is gettin £1100/month in benifits .... why would you want to work
Quote from: Hereiam on September 12, 2012, 09:41:12 AM
The doll that had 4 children to 3 different men is gettin £1100/month in benifits .... why would you want to work
To show the children a work ethic so they don't end up the same ? Pride, self esteem ? I guarantee you if she was working the house wouldn't have been an absolute shithole.
Really felt for( and admired) the the family with the husband who was working as a cleaner as opposed to getting benefits, both him and his wife were trying to do the best for the kids - including paying £400 interest on a £500 doorstep loan for Christmas presents , , something seriously wrong with the system where it is so much more lucrative for people to stay on benefits as opposed work