Armagh v Galway AIQF

[general_lee]

In the post match interview Kieran McGeeney posed a question back at a journalist what to you do when someone pushes you ? insinuating that the correct and normal thing to do is to push back, granted its an awful situation for Kieran to be in having to do a post match interview after losing a match, but its caveman stuff pushing someone back because they pushed you. If someone wants to start a fight with you, you do have the option of not engaging with the other person and getting drawn in to a fight. If Kieran matches the video of the melee he will see Tiernan Kelly pushing Sean Kelly who is the bigger man and doesn't push back.

Matching the melee again the way the Armagh subs came in so fast, and were double-teaming up against the Galway players in what seemed a very choreographed way.

Yes very choreographed indeed, in fact I heard from a very good source that instead of practicing penalties Armagh had been practising melees in the lead up to this match.

As everyone well knows, a melee is a proven way to gain an edge in a match: what better way to improve your chances of success than picking up a potential red card, a potential injury or a subsequent sanction ruling you out of future matches? It's amazing more teams don't get involved in them, Armagh are revolutionary pioneers who have had relentless success from deploying this tactic...

[general_lee]

Someone pushes me I push back.... ok, I don't then ask for all mine teammates to get into a cartoon style dust up in front of 100,000's of people watch at the pitch on tv and in a quarter final game at the home of GAA..

Agreeing that its ok to push back is the first problem, allowing the ref to do his job is a lot easier when its one man instigating it, yellow or red depending on the incident.

The ref has one chance after discussion with other officials to make a call, if he did it by the book, you'd have 8 a side if you are lucky, maybe that needs to happen

Did McGeeney say it was ok? He merely insinuated that that is what happens. Rightly or wrongly a player is  going to do it. When a ref can't keep a lid on things early on, this is what happens. I've seen it unfold at Club level and county level is no different. You can let things go and let men play on the edge but you can also cut out the shite early on to stop things boiling over. Coldrick failed to do so, I was surprised he sent McCabe off as he let so much else go.

[Brick Tamlin]

While I completely agree with the above that we need to move on from the TK stuff as he's had his punishment now (and it's no Galway people here who are calling for his head), the idea that comer was the instigator is wrong and needs to stop.

Morgan, somewhat understandably in the joys of utter celebration, shouldered comer in the back and started mouthing a bit. Comer, who doesn't shy away from much to be fair, shoved back and then comer was surrounded by a few Armagh and then everyone started piling over. That's what happened and saying otherwise is starting a wrongful discussion about a player who still has to go perform in 2 weeks

100% that is exactly what happened. Anyone sitting in that area of the Cusack will say the same.

Wasn't at the game but the camera footage shown on TSG appears to tell a clear & different story. 
Morgan is mouthing something alright.. thou it looks more likely that it is at his own teammate and if it is abuse at someone from Galway then they are a fair bit away. 
Comer deliberately runs over to Morgan, starts his own bit of mouthing and instigates the shoulder dunt which is also clearly not in the back.
At that point Forker & ONeill get involved with Kelly being the next player to get involved.

You've just admitted you weren't at the game! Considering multiple Galway people and an Armagh fan have just explained on the previous page that's not what happened, has it not occurred to you that the camera's may have missed the start of it? The Morgan shoulder into Comer happened about 5-10 seconds before the part you saw when the camera panned over, which was Comer following Morgan to remonstrate. Maybe he shouldve just taken it, but as I said, he's generally not one to shy away either

I was at the game and that was my view of it at the time and it's my view of it having watched the game back. Also this one way narrative that only Morgan was at it all game is ballex of the highest order. Him and Walsh were both going at each other throughout, not long after Morgan got booked Shane Walsh had him pinned to the ground right in front of the linesman (eyes firmly painted on). Morgan was trying to get free for about 6-7 seconds with Walsh doing his best to provoke something. While the blind official eventually alerted the ref, colderick then proceeded to do absolutely f**k all about it 

We definitely need to find some way to prevent threats like Morgan being illegally stopped by the likes of Walsh at various stages of a game, it's up to the referees and linesmen to do this and they have been found wanting.
I've seen Walsh get imbroiled time after time with opposition players who obviously are only trying to play the game in a fair and reasonable manner, Shane is clearly the common denominator here so it has to be him targeting the opposition corner backs for I suppose the politest way of calling it would be "treatment".

I hope the officials for the semi final grow a set of balls and stop this reign of targeted terror by Walsh against the marquee defenders we all pay the money for tickets to see. Certainly I think that these defenders have to accept that there are going to attempts to stop them by hook or by crook but its up to the officials to protect them, I sincerely hope this is sorted out for the semi final, we don't want to see Walsh getting away with his antics again.

This is so good...tip of the hat to you sir.
Walsh obviously a bad egg.

[trailer]

Rows, melees, schemozzles, are not a new issue. They've been part of the fabric of the GAA since time began. The tribal nature of the teams contributes to it.
This is an issue of the GAAs own making and it is them who should shoulder the responsibility. Allowing that many people access to the pitch was stupid. Fines clearly don't work as counties just pay them. Serious sanctions need brought in for that kind of careless rule breaking.
When a player is sent off there are about 5 appeal routes. Many of these committees have different people siting on them at any time and everything is open to interpretation. No appeals. Simple.

Get the rule book tidied up removing stupid rules that solicitors use to get out of bans.
Make the referees decisions sacrosanct. If they make a mistake then so be it.
Use video evidence only to review missed foul play.
Actually ban players.

Ban Armagh completely from the GAA.

[johnnycool]

Someone pushes me I push back.... ok, I don't then ask for all mine teammates to get into a cartoon style dust up in front of 100,000's of people watch at the pitch on tv and in a quarter final game at the home of GAA..

Agreeing that its ok to push back is the first problem, allowing the ref to do his job is a lot easier when its one man instigating it, yellow or red depending on the incident.

The ref has one chance after discussion with other officials to make a call, if he did it by the book, you'd have 8 a side if you are lucky, maybe that needs to happen

The book needs to change then if it says there were any red card offences in that melee bar the obvious one ffs.

first two lads engage in a bit of pushing, the ref can deal with, issue cards appropriately, the others that bomb in are the issue and it's bad enough if it's actual players on the field of play, but when subs and even injured panel members get involved irrespective of their actions then they need made examples of.

[Milltown Row2]

Someone pushes me I push back.... ok, I don't then ask for all mine teammates to get into a cartoon style dust up in front of 100,000's of people watch at the pitch on tv and in a quarter final game at the home of GAA..

Agreeing that its ok to push back is the first problem, allowing the ref to do his job is a lot easier when its one man instigating it, yellow or red depending on the incident.

The ref has one chance after discussion with other officials to make a call, if he did it by the book, you'd have 8 a side if you are lucky, maybe that needs to happen

The book needs to change then if it says there were any red card offences in that melee bar the obvious one ffs.

first two lads engage in a bit of pushing, the ref can deal with, issue cards appropriately, the others that bomb in are the issue and it's bad enough if it's actual players on the field of play, but when subs and even injured panel members get involved irrespective of their actions then they need made examples of.

How many 'bad' incidents were there before that final whistle?  was there a few melee's?  Did the ref dish out any cards during the game? Or did he just let them at it?

Here's the problem, football is not a contact sport unless there is a fair shoulder to shoulder, that's it, no other bodily contact is allowed, players are only allowed to tackle the ball not the man, if we ref'd per rule book and not use common sense then the game would be sanitised and unpopular (thats my opinion)

A manger was giving off last night in a game I was at saying ffs its a contact sport, which I replied its not bar a shoulder, read the rules

[seafoid]

We don't know enough about melees, imo. Why are they started ? What is the logic of a melee ? Who is supposed to benefit from them.
Why is the GAA response so poor?

[Keyser soze]

Someone pushes me I push back.... ok, I don't then ask for all mine teammates to get into a cartoon style dust up in front of 100,000's of people watch at the pitch on tv and in a quarter final game at the home of GAA..

Agreeing that its ok to push back is the first problem, allowing the ref to do his job is a lot easier when its one man instigating it, yellow or red depending on the incident.

The ref has one chance after discussion with other officials to make a call, if he did it by the book, you'd have 8 a side if you are lucky, maybe that needs to happen

The book needs to change then if it says there were any red card offences in that melee bar the obvious one ffs.

first two lads engage in a bit of pushing, the ref can deal with, issue cards appropriately, the others that bomb in are the issue and it's bad enough if it's actual players on the field of play, but when subs and even injured panel members get involved irrespective of their actions then they need made examples of.

How many 'bad' incidents were there before that final whistle?  was there a few melee's?  Did the ref dish out any cards during the game? Or did he just let them at it?

Here's the problem, football is not a contact sport unless there is a fair shoulder to shoulder, that's it, no other bodily contact is allowed, players are only allowed to tackle the ball not the man, if we ref'd per rule book and not use common sense then the game would be sanitised and unpopular (thats my opinion)

A manger was giving off last night in a game I was at saying ffs its a contact sport, which I replied its not bar a shoulder, read the rules

You come out with shite like that and then wonder why people have no respect for referees?

[nrico2006]

From footage I saw it was started by Comer.  For once Morgan looked innocent enough.

As for the next game, I think Derry will win handy enough.  Galway are nothing special.

[general_lee]

Someone pushes me I push back.... ok, I don't then ask for all mine teammates to get into a cartoon style dust up in front of 100,000's of people watch at the pitch on tv and in a quarter final game at the home of GAA..

Agreeing that its ok to push back is the first problem, allowing the ref to do his job is a lot easier when its one man instigating it, yellow or red depending on the incident.

The ref has one chance after discussion with other officials to make a call, if he did it by the book, you'd have 8 a side if you are lucky, maybe that needs to happen

The book needs to change then if it says there were any red card offences in that melee bar the obvious one ffs.

first two lads engage in a bit of pushing, the ref can deal with, issue cards appropriately, the others that bomb in are the issue and it's bad enough if it's actual players on the field of play, but when subs and even injured panel members get involved irrespective of their actions then they need made examples of.

How many 'bad' incidents were there before that final whistle?  was there a few melee's?  Did the ref dish out any cards during the game? Or did he just let them at it?

Here's the problem, football is not a contact sport unless there is a fair shoulder to shoulder, that's it, no other bodily contact is allowed, players are only allowed to tackle the ball not the man, if we ref'd per rule book and not use common sense then the game would be sanitised and unpopular (thats my opinion)

A manger was giving off last night in a game I was at saying ffs its a contact sport, which I replied its not bar a shoulder, read the rules

If a portly full forward subtly uses his rear end to his advantage under a high ball, is that a foul?

[Milltown Row2]

Someone pushes me I push back.... ok, I don't then ask for all mine teammates to get into a cartoon style dust up in front of 100,000's of people watch at the pitch on tv and in a quarter final game at the home of GAA..

Agreeing that its ok to push back is the first problem, allowing the ref to do his job is a lot easier when its one man instigating it, yellow or red depending on the incident.

The ref has one chance after discussion with other officials to make a call, if he did it by the book, you'd have 8 a side if you are lucky, maybe that needs to happen

The book needs to change then if it says there were any red card offences in that melee bar the obvious one ffs.

first two lads engage in a bit of pushing, the ref can deal with, issue cards appropriately, the others that bomb in are the issue and it's bad enough if it's actual players on the field of play, but when subs and even injured panel members get involved irrespective of their actions then they need made examples of.

How many 'bad' incidents were there before that final whistle?  was there a few melee's?  Did the ref dish out any cards during the game? Or did he just let them at it?

Here's the problem, football is not a contact sport unless there is a fair shoulder to shoulder, that's it, no other bodily contact is allowed, players are only allowed to tackle the ball not the man, if we ref'd per rule book and not use common sense then the game would be sanitised and unpopular (thats my opinion)

A manger was giving off last night in a game I was at saying ffs its a contact sport, which I replied its not bar a shoulder, read the rules

You come out with shite like that and then wonder why people have no respect for referees?

Ah right! I get it, the manager can shout abuse to the ref but when he gives him a measured response he gets no respect? Very good, the read the rules is a common problem, as most people think they know the rules and shout without thinking

[Armagh18]

Someone pushes me I push back.... ok, I don't then ask for all mine teammates to get into a cartoon style dust up in front of 100,000's of people watch at the pitch on tv and in a quarter final game at the home of GAA..

Agreeing that its ok to push back is the first problem, allowing the ref to do his job is a lot easier when its one man instigating it, yellow or red depending on the incident.

The ref has one chance after discussion with other officials to make a call, if he did it by the book, you'd have 8 a side if you are lucky, maybe that needs to happen

The book needs to change then if it says there were any red card offences in that melee bar the obvious one ffs.

first two lads engage in a bit of pushing, the ref can deal with, issue cards appropriately, the others that bomb in are the issue and it's bad enough if it's actual players on the field of play, but when subs and even injured panel members get involved irrespective of their actions then they need made examples of.

How many 'bad' incidents were there before that final whistle?  was there a few melee's?  Did the ref dish out any cards during the game? Or did he just let them at it?

Here's the problem, football is not a contact sport unless there is a fair shoulder to shoulder, that's it, no other bodily contact is allowed, players are only allowed to tackle the ball not the man, if we ref'd per rule book and not use common sense then the game would be sanitised and unpopular (thats my opinion)

A manger was giving off last night in a game I was at saying ffs its a contact sport, which I replied its not bar a shoulder, read the rules

I hope I'm never playing or managing with you in the middle!

[general_lee]

While I completely agree with the above that we need to move on from the TK stuff as he's had his punishment now (and it's no Galway people here who are calling for his head), the idea that comer was the instigator is wrong and needs to stop.

Morgan, somewhat understandably in the joys of utter celebration, shouldered comer in the back and started mouthing a bit. Comer, who doesn't shy away from much to be fair, shoved back and then comer was surrounded by a few Armagh and then everyone started piling over. That's what happened and saying otherwise is starting a wrongful discussion about a player who still has to go perform in 2 weeks

100% that is exactly what happened. Anyone sitting in that area of the Cusack will say the same.

Wasn't at the game but the camera footage shown on TSG appears to tell a clear & different story. 
Morgan is mouthing something alright.. thou it looks more likely that it is at his own teammate and if it is abuse at someone from Galway then they are a fair bit away. 
Comer deliberately runs over to Morgan, starts his own bit of mouthing and instigates the shoulder dunt which is also clearly not in the back.
At that point Forker & ONeill get involved with Kelly being the next player to get involved.

You've just admitted you weren't at the game! Considering multiple Galway people and an Armagh fan have just explained on the previous page that's not what happened, has it not occurred to you that the camera's may have missed the start of it? The Morgan shoulder into Comer happened about 5-10 seconds before the part you saw when the camera panned over, which was Comer following Morgan to remonstrate. Maybe he shouldve just taken it, but as I said, he's generally not one to shy away either

I was at the game and that was my view of it at the time and it's my view of it having watched the game back. Also this one way narrative that only Morgan was at it all game is ballex of the highest order. Him and Walsh were both going at each other throughout, not long after Morgan got booked Shane Walsh had him pinned to the ground right in front of the linesman (eyes firmly painted on). Morgan was trying to get free for about 6-7 seconds with Walsh doing his best to provoke something. While the blind official eventually alerted the ref, colderick then proceeded to do absolutely f**k all about it 

We definitely need to find some way to prevent threats like Morgan being illegally stopped by the likes of Walsh at various stages of a game, it's up to the referees and linesmen to do this and they have been found wanting.
I've seen Walsh get imbroiled time after time with opposition players who obviously are only trying to play the game in a fair and reasonable manner, Shane is clearly the common denominator here so it has to be him targeting the opposition corner backs for I suppose the politest way of calling it would be "treatment".

I hope the officials for the semi final grow a set of balls and stop this reign of targeted terror by Walsh against the marquee defenders we all pay the money for tickets to see. Certainly I think that these defenders have to accept that there are going to attempts to stop them by hook or by crook but its up to the officials to protect them, I sincerely hope this is sorted out for the semi final, we don't want to see Walsh getting away with his antics again.

This is so good...tip of the hat to you sir.
Walsh obviously a bad egg.

I mean, Armagh just scored a goal, Morgan had just got a yellow and Walsh wrestled him to the ground as he tried to get back and defend a Galway attack, presumably to get a rise out of him. It's more the officiating that annoys me, we then wonder why there was a melee shortly after.

[Milltown Row2]

Someone pushes me I push back.... ok, I don't then ask for all mine teammates to get into a cartoon style dust up in front of 100,000's of people watch at the pitch on tv and in a quarter final game at the home of GAA..

Agreeing that its ok to push back is the first problem, allowing the ref to do his job is a lot easier when its one man instigating it, yellow or red depending on the incident.

The ref has one chance after discussion with other officials to make a call, if he did it by the book, you'd have 8 a side if you are lucky, maybe that needs to happen

The book needs to change then if it says there were any red card offences in that melee bar the obvious one ffs.

first two lads engage in a bit of pushing, the ref can deal with, issue cards appropriately, the others that bomb in are the issue and it's bad enough if it's actual players on the field of play, but when subs and even injured panel members get involved irrespective of their actions then they need made examples of.

How many 'bad' incidents were there before that final whistle?  was there a few melee's?  Did the ref dish out any cards during the game? Or did he just let them at it?

Here's the problem, football is not a contact sport unless there is a fair shoulder to shoulder, that's it, no other bodily contact is allowed, players are only allowed to tackle the ball not the man, if we ref'd per rule book and not use common sense then the game would be sanitised and unpopular (thats my opinion)

A manger was giving off last night in a game I was at saying ffs its a contact sport, which I replied its not bar a shoulder, read the rules

If a portly full forward subtly uses his rear end to his advantage under a high ball, is that a foul?

Yes if a portly FF uses his arse to shove someone under a high ball, its no different to pushing him in the back with 2 arms..

If 2 people are making an honest attempt to play the ball then that's fine, there  needs to be a definitive foul, For instance if there is an accidental trip, its still a foul whether there was intent or not, which played out last night funnily enough and didn't go do well with the management team, I get that and understand the frustration.

The only way to work it is this, 3 people could watch the same 'tackle' and all three would have a different view of the same incident, the only one that matters is the ref's, and providing he's mainly consistent with his calls and explains them as he sees them that's all you can hope for.

The ref has taken time to time to do the course, keep himself fit and up to date with the ever changing rules, take abuse from players sidelines and supporters because his view is 'wrong' and at the same time the players supporters and management want games and have all the calls go their way!

I'm lucky as I've been through the GAA at every level, player, manager and supporter, moving to refereeing wasn't what I wanted to do, it was down to being not happy with what I'd seen at the times when playing, thinking that I'd be able to do better, the reality is its the worst part of GAA and as seen in an earlier post, by Keyser, no one respects the ref's especially ones that explain their calls

[galwayman]

From footage I saw it was started by Comer.  For once Morgan looked innocent enough.

As for the next game, I think Derry will win handy enough.  Galway are nothing special.

For the 1 millionth time - the tv footage only showed Comer's reaction to what happened directly beforehand. That wasn't captured but clearly obvious to anyone sitting in the Cusack.