More Dissident-Republican Activity

[Applesisapples]

To be clear again, if any of my posts give the impression of condoning this murder or painting the Black family as bigots that was not the intention. There hurt is real and the murder unforgivable.

[theskull1]

People are full of contradictions
My opinion is that during the most of the 20th century very high number of nationalists understood (though many possibly wouldnt like to admit it even to themselves at times) the reasons why some republicans took part in armed struggle, so whilst they may not have supported the result of that struggle (the maiming and killing of civilians and armed forces) because their conscience wouldnt let them, they still understood (remember...at a hidden level) why some seen it as a solution because there wasn't alot of fantastic options out there at the time due to the blatent intrangagence of those in power. Supporting political republicanism post the GFA was an easier decision to make. The results at the ballot box has borne that out.

We have moved on in a large way from the way things were and its important that this society doesn't look for justificfation for deeds such as this one.   

[charlieTully]

People are full of contradictions
My opinion is that during the most of the 20th century very high number of nationalists understood (though many possibly wouldnt like to admit it even to themselves at times) the reasons why some republicans took part in armed struggle, so whilst they may not have supported the result of that struggle (the maiming and killing of civilians and armed forces) because their conscience wouldnt let them, they still understood (remember...at a hidden level) why some seen it as a solution because there wasn't alot of fantastic options out there at the time due to the blatent intrangagence of those in power. Supporting political republicanism post the GFA was an easier decision to make. The results at the ballot box has borne that out.

We have moved on in a large way from the way things were and its important that this society doesn't look for justificfation for deeds such as this one.

but anyone even attempting to debate it or possible reasons why it happened were venomously accused of justifying it and condoning it. political analysts on the BBC and utv outlined potential reasons why it happened, would people accuse them of justifying it.

[Maguire01]

Well for me I know plenty who desist from Sinn Feins Republicanism who I would call Republican as Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on Republicanism.If your talking about the dissidents who bombed Omagh or shot Mr.Black I don't know them and they my well be Republican but what I do believe is that they are wrong in what they are doing.The IRA fought a war for over 30 years with popular support from within their community,with all the latest weaponry and very experienced operaters but still couldn't beat the Brits.

'Pockets' of support would probably be more precise. If by 'their community' you mean the broader Catholic or nationalist community, then the vast majority were opposed to their campaign.

They settled for the best deal they could get[GFA] and decided to continue the fight for Irish Unity by political means only.I therefore cannot see how the dissidents  killing people at Omagh,Masserene or anywhere else will get them anything more than the IRA got.I therefore believe that these people are just killing  for the sake of killing  so would find it very hard to describe them as Republican.

The IRA could have settled for a deal along the lines of the GFA long before 1998... the principle of consent on the constitutional issue was acknowledged by British governments long before the GFA.

[michaelg]

That's alright from your point of view, just with most on here they were and are a bit dismayed at the preconceived ideas of, he's an orangeman and a prison officer that means his family must be bigots!!

I'm saying and I can't speak for the rest is, let them have whatever funeral they want, Martin didn't make as much fuss about it as some on here did, and he wasn't heard calling them bigots either. Some people move on in life and accept things have changed and others don't, at the minute we have a small minority of people who do want to stay in the past. Lets work together so we don't end up in a place that was, looking back, horrible and full of hate

fair point man but its a two way street, i honestly believe most unionists see it as they won and can do what they like. coat trailing marches, burning our national flag and gaa flags etc on their bonfire. all that shit needs to stop to show a genuine want for peace. it cannot come with a price tag of inequality.

I'd imagine if you looked at the lives/communities of those unionists burning flags on bonfires... well you wouldn't conclude that they'd won anything.

I dont need to imagine that i live near Banbridge which is largley a middle class unionist town, still seen the our national flag and Down flags and indeed vatican flags on their bonfire as i was driving past. dont start with the socially disadvantaged bullshit. there is plenty of money pumped into loyalist areas, its just andre gave it all to paddy power. sure the UDA could contribute some of their drug money back.

Seems to me you are putting a lot of significance in relation to what fleg is on top of a loyalist bonfire?  Surely, Union flags, Ulster banners etc are also burnt on top of bonfires for internment etc.

[glens abu]

Well for me I know plenty who desist from Sinn Feins Republicanism who I would call Republican as Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on Republicanism.If your talking about the dissidents who bombed Omagh or shot Mr.Black I don't know them and they my well be Republican but what I do believe is that they are wrong in what they are doing.The IRA fought a war for over 30 years with popular support from within their community,with all the latest weaponry and very experienced operaters but still couldn't beat the Brits.

'Pockets' of support would probably be more precise. If by 'their community' you mean the broader Catholic or nationalist community, then the vast majority were opposed to their campaign.

They settled for the best deal they could get[GFA] and decided to continue the fight for Irish Unity by political means only.I therefore cannot see how the dissidents  killing people at Omagh,Masserene or anywhere else will get them anything more than the IRA got.I therefore believe that these people are just killing  for the sake of killing  so would find it very hard to describe them as Republican.

The IRA could have settled for a deal along the lines of the GFA long before 1998... the principle of consent on the constitutional issue was acknowledged by British governments long before the GFA.

Disagree on both your points but sure thats what having an opinion is about and I was asked mine.

[dillinger]

As a Unionist it dosn't bother me what flags are burnt on interment bonfires.
After all these years it's all a bit meh what either side put on top of them.

[theskull1]

As a Unionist it dosn't bother me what flags are burnt on interment bonfires.
After all these years it's all a bit meh what either side put on top of them.

If they stopped burning them, as much as you say it doesn't bother you, would you not be heartened by the fact that those people have moved on?

[dillinger]

As a Unionist it dosn't bother me what flags are burnt on interment bonfires.
After all these years it's all a bit meh what either side put on top of them.

If they stopped burning them, as much as you say it doesn't bother you, would you not be heartened by the fact that those people have moved on?

Wouldn't miss them at all.

[trasna man]

The Londonderry family of a remand prisoner at Maghaberry jail has claimed his wrist has been broken in a struggle with prison staff.

43-year-old Tony Taylor has been charged with possession of a firearm with intent to endanger life last year.

His sister claimed prison staff became violent towards her brother when he asked for documents ahead of a court appearance in Londonderry.

Joanne Starrs claimed tensions are running high in Maghaberry.

"When I spoke to him on Thursday, Tony told me the prison staff are punching them and spitting on their food in front of them before they eat it.

"He said the tension is terrible in the prison at the moment."

Ms Starrs said the tensions came to a head as her brother was preparing to go to court for a remand hearing.

"On the way out to the van to go to the court hearing he asked for his papers and was told he wasn't getting them.

"Tony said he was entitled to them and asked the prison officer to go and ask the governor for them.

Continue reading the main story
"
Start Quote
He said the tension is terrible in the prison at the moment"
End Quote
Joanne Starrs

Sister of prisoner
"When he came back, he said the governor told him he wasn't getting them and a member of the prison staff bounced Tony's head off the side of the van.

"Then he put his hand on the back of his head and pushed it down on a bar.

"The riot squad came out and kicked Tony in the face and stood on his hand.

"He didn't get any treatment until Thursday night when it was confirmed that his wrist was broken and he also has injuries to his thumb and back.

Ms Starrs also claimed that while he was being beaten he was called a criminal by prison officers, and an official complaint has to made to prison authorities.

The Prison Service have issued the following statement: "The Governor is investigating an incident in a prison service van at Maghaberry Prison yesterday morning, (Thursday) involving a prisoner who was about to leave for court. One Prisoner Custody Officer received hospital treatment following the incident."

[stew]

That the government actually funds some of these 'events' is beyond me, if you tried that shit in the States and tried to burn an American flag you would be arrested and put away for a while.

The psni are completely and utterly inept, plus they don't give a shit.

[charlieTully]

That the government actually funds some of these 'events' is beyond me, if you tried that shit in the States and tried to burn an American flag you would be arrested and put away for a while.

The psni are completely and utterly inept, plus they don't give a shit.

nail on the head. just look at the way they handle the parade issues, talking through a loud speaker telling loyalists they are breaching determinations, yet beating people of the road in Ardoyne to force marches through. I'm sure many young nationalists join to genuinely try and make a difference but its rotten at the top.

[dillinger]

That the government actually funds some of these 'events' is beyond me, if you tried that shit in the States and tried to burn an American flag you would be arrested and put away for a while.

The psni are completely and utterly inept, plus they don't give a shit.

Are you saying the P.S.N.I. should step in to stop the burning of the Union flag?

[screenexile]

That the government actually funds some of these 'events' is beyond me, if you tried that shit in the States and tried to burn an American flag you would be arrested and put away for a while.

The psni are completely and utterly inept, plus they don't give a shit.

That is incorrect... The first amendment means it is unconstitutional for a Government to prohibit the desecration of a flag as it is tantamount to free speech!

[randomtask]

In relation to tensions inside the prison, i was thinking about all these protests and the publicity around the strip searches. Would it not make sense for some group to say raise a million pounds or receive large donations from a number of nationalist parties. Buy a few of these seat scanner yokes and "donate"them to the prison service after making a large media hullabaloo about how this should solve the problem. If the prison service didn't accept them there would be outrage, it would be backing them into a corner with two clear options. Either end the feud or openly show that they don't want the feud with republican prisoners to end. I cant see how any nationalist/republican group would be against this peaceful fund raising scheme.