More Dissident-Republican Activity

[Applesisapples]

I don't agree that this thread should be closed. I think it's good that people on here can see the level of hatred and bigotry that some people from within the nationalist / republican community are capable of. Bit of an eye opener for a few.

The bigotry is from both sides. I don't care what Mr Black did for a living, he did not deserve to die as he did end of story. No cause is worth a life. But there is an abject failure by those of a unionist bent to recognise that hurt, killings, torture and the troubles were not solely the fault of one community and that the relative peace we have today could only have been delivered from the inside by the likes of Adams and McGuinness. The refusal of the Black family to accept the hand of friendship from SF is understandable but unfortunately a product of the unionist communities failure to accept any blame for our troubles stretching back over the last 200 odd years.

[nifan]

But there is an abject failure by those of a unionist bent to recognise that hurt, killings, torture and the troubles were not solely the fault of one community

I dont know anyone who thinks this.

[sheamy]

Some people on here are single minded an think that there is still a war going on.

Although used here in a different context, that is the cornerstone of the issue. The thread has taken an unfortunate twist and I certainly wouldn't be commenting on any family in that situation. Let's please try and get away from that.

There are people who want a war to continue. Those that carried out the murder would be in that category. That's not something new or something we didn't know. The depressing thing, for me at least, is the mistakes being made by 'the authorities' in giving fuel to this fire. Even last night that cretin David Ford (a man hopelessly out of his depth) was being interviewed on BBC and coming out with 'there will be no compromise to conditions' blah blah blah.

He was an inch away from Thatcher's 'crime is crime is crime' mantra. The policy of criminalisation did not work then and it won't work now. Moreover yer man Spratt was on from the prison wardens association basically saying that these prisoners are demanding the place be run like it was before i.e. when OC's ran the wings and cooperated with staff. Like it or like it not, wtf do you expect from people with these beliefs? If this is a row about political status, then that is very very depressing. Those comments would suggest to me that there is an element within the prison service or NIO or whatever trying to win the war they already lost in terms of prisons.

There's a smart way to deal with these people and there's the path the 'authorities' are currently on. Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. If Thatcher failed, what chance David Ford et al?

[Rossfan]

Not to mention 1916.

[sheamy]

Not to mention 1916.

Not sure how that's remotely relevant but if you see it as witty, then reach round and pat yourself on the back

[Rossfan]

Broaden your narrow little mind buckeen --
I'll explain --
1916 a crowd of lads who hadn't much support ..... Brits came the heavy...... executed leaders...  I take it you know the rest 

[Saffrongael]

Nally Stand/Glens Abu - Do you see the dissidents as Republicans ?

[Evil Genius]

The bigotry is from both sides. I don't care what Mr Black did for a living, he did not deserve to die as he did end of story. No cause is worth a life. But there is an abject failure by those of a unionist bent to recognise that hurt, killings, torture and the troubles were not solely the fault of one community and that the relative peace we have today could only have been delivered from the inside by the likes of Adams and McGuinness. The refusal of the Black family to accept the hand of friendship from SF is understandable but unfortunately a product of the unionist communities failure to accept any blame for our troubles stretching back over the last 200 odd years.

This [bold] is the second* time you have sought to portray the Black family action over McGuinness as being somehow representative of the Unionist community as a whole.

In fact, they are no more or less so representative than eg Gordon and Joan Wilson, another family bereaved in a Republican atrocity (Enniskillen) .

If you want to know what Unionists think about "moving on" or "extending the hand of friendship" etc, you would be better advised to look at the overwhelming support which Unionists gave to the GFA, as well as the part their political representatives have played in power-sharing at Stormont in the years since.




* - "It is of course the Black families right to refuse SF reps at the funeral but it is hardly a sign that the unionist community is moving forward. Quite the reverse it would confirm my suspicion that the unionist community will only move on their own terms"

[arsecandle]

so let me get this straight.dissident republicans carry out a murder on a prison officer but the real victim in all of this is sinn fein?

[glens abu]

Nally Stand/Glens Abu - Do you see the dissidents as Republicans ?

Well for me I know plenty who desist from Sinn Feins Republicanism who I would call Republican as Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on Republicanism.If your talking about the dissidents who bombed Omagh or shot Mr.Black I don't know them and they my well be Republican but what I do believe is that they are wrong in what they are doing.The IRA fought a war for over 30 years with popular support from within their community,with all the latest weaponry and very experienced operaters but still couldn't beat the Brits.They settled for the best deal they could get[GFA] and decided to continue the fight for Irish Unity by political means only.I therefore cannot see how the dissidents  killing people at Omagh,Masserene or anywhere else will get them anything more than the IRA got.I therefore believe that these people are just killing  for the sake of killing  so would find it very hard to describe them as Republican. 

[Milltown Row2]

Nally Stand/Glens Abu - Do you see the dissidents as Republicans ?

Well for me I know plenty who desist from Sinn Feins Republicanism who I would call Republican as Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on Republicanism.If your talking about the dissidents who bombed Omagh or shot Mr.Black I don't know them and they my well be Republican but what I do believe is that they are wrong in what they are doing.The IRA fought a war for over 30 years with popular support from within their community,with all the latest weaponry and very experienced operaters but still couldn't beat the Brits.They settled for the best deal they could get[GFA] and decided to continue the fight for Irish Unity by political means only.I therefore cannot see how the dissidents  killing people at Omagh,Masserene or anywhere else will get them anything more than the IRA got.I therefore believe that these people are just killing  for the sake of killing  so would find it very hard to describe them as Republican.

Now that was a decent post, not that you need me to say that.

Remember I am against the constant strip searches that allegedly go on, if they have a machine that can do it then they should be using it. Remand prisoners should have different treatment until it's decided if they are guilty or released. But killing people as you said is pointless, and if they didn't want Martin at the funeral it was up to them and really should have been left at that,  really not a big story.

[glens abu]

Nally Stand/Glens Abu - Do you see the dissidents as Republicans ?

Well for me I know plenty who desist from Sinn Feins Republicanism who I would call Republican as Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on Republicanism.If your talking about the dissidents who bombed Omagh or shot Mr.Black I don't know them and they my well be Republican but what I do believe is that they are wrong in what they are doing.The IRA fought a war for over 30 years with popular support from within their community,with all the latest weaponry and very experienced operaters but still couldn't beat the Brits.They settled for the best deal they could get[GFA] and decided to continue the fight for Irish Unity by political means only.I therefore cannot see how the dissidents  killing people at Omagh,Masserene or anywhere else will get them anything more than the IRA got.I therefore believe that these people are just killing  for the sake of killing  so would find it very hard to describe them as Republican.

Now that was a decent post, not that you need me to say that.

Remember I am against the constant strip searches that allegedly go on, if they have a machine that can do it then they should be using it. Remand prisoners should have different treatment until it's decided if they are guilty or released. But killing people as you said is pointless, and if they didn't want Martin at the funeral it was up to them and really should have been left at that,  really not a big story.

Cheers Milltown and take your point.

[Champion The Wonder Horse]

Nally Stand/Glens Abu - Do you see the dissidents as Republicans ?

Well for me I know plenty who desist from Sinn Feins Republicanism who I would call Republican as Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on Republicanism.If your talking about the dissidents who bombed Omagh or shot Mr.Black I don't know them and they my well be Republican but what I do believe is that they are wrong in what they are doing.The IRA fought a war for over 30 years with popular support from within their community,with all the latest weaponry and very experienced operaters but still couldn't beat the Brits.They settled for the best deal they could get[GFA] and decided to continue the fight for Irish Unity by political means only.I therefore cannot see how the dissidents  killing people at Omagh,Masserene or anywhere else will get them anything more than the IRA got.I therefore believe that these people are just killing  for the sake of killing  so would find it very hard to describe them as Republican.

Did they though?

[glens abu]

Nally Stand/Glens Abu - Do you see the dissidents as Republicans ?

Well for me I know plenty who desist from Sinn Feins Republicanism who I would call Republican as Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on Republicanism.If your talking about the dissidents who bombed Omagh or shot Mr.Black I don't know them and they my well be Republican but what I do believe is that they are wrong in what they are doing.The IRA fought a war for over 30 years with popular support from within their community,with all the latest weaponry and very experienced operaters but still couldn't beat the Brits.They settled for the best deal they could get[GFA] and decided to continue the fight for Irish Unity by political means only.I therefore cannot see how the dissidents  killing people at Omagh,Masserene or anywhere else will get them anything more than the IRA got.I therefore believe that these people are just killing  for the sake of killing  so would find it very hard to describe them as Republican.

Did they though?

Well I can only speak from my own experience and I would say Yes,dont think they could have carried on the campaign at such high level of intensity if they hadn't got that support.

[LeoMc]

Nally Stand/Glens Abu - Do you see the dissidents as Republicans ?

Well for me I know plenty who desist from Sinn Feins Republicanism who I would call Republican as Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on Republicanism.If your talking about the dissidents who bombed Omagh or shot Mr.Black I don't know them and they my well be Republican but what I do believe is that they are wrong in what they are doing.The IRA fought a war for over 30 years with popular support from within their community,with all the latest weaponry and very experienced operaters but still couldn't beat the Brits.They settled for the best deal they could get[GFA] and decided to continue the fight for Irish Unity by political means only.I therefore cannot see how the dissidents  killing people at Omagh,Masserene or anywhere else will get them anything more than the IRA got.I therefore believe that these people are just killing  for the sake of killing  so would find it very hard to describe them as Republican.

Did they though?

The support would have declined in latter years but in through the 70's and early 80's there would have been a lot of tacit support in the Nationalist community.