British State Collusion

Started by Nally Stand, October 11, 2011, 05:03:20 PM

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mayogodhelpus@gmail.com

Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2011, 11:09:03 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on October 12, 2011, 06:27:18 AM
I personally believe the British need to have an inquiry, but one that is swifter and more cost effective than previously. There is no point doing it, if there are no clear and honest results.

TheBrit govt won't want that outcome anyway.  >:(

I am pretty sure you are right Rossfan.
Time to take a more chill-pill approach to life.

muppet

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 12, 2011, 09:48:47 AM
The war in the north was extremely dirty and full of propaganda bullshit and cover-ups.  I have personal experience of some stuff that no one on here has ever heard of and never will and trust me there are a lot of lies and a lot of collusion that went on.  The Finucane family deserve to know the truth but they never will.  The unfortunate thing is that the "truth" is also a subjective term, who's truth? 

There is no right answer to how the fallout from the Troubles be sorted out.  People give off about the "community development" work being a waste of tax payers money but the reality is that for thousands of people in the north the Troubles are still a very vivid part of their lives and the Government has to accept that.  Brendan McAllister, Victims Commissioner. recently commented that the level of "victims" is much higher in terms of numbers than has previously been estimated, and that includes members of the security forces and families of loyalists killed.  The Troubles lasted for 30 years, I was born in the middle of the worst of it.  It affected me and my family directly and when I tell people, who had no experience of it, what it was like they are shocked and disgusted at what happened to us and I wouldn't class myself as a victim.  The Government will not come clean, they will not accept responsibility, they had all their "agents" killed/shipped off or whatever over the last 10 years and the stories will never resurface.  I feel for the Finucane family, I know them(not well mind you) but I know this is all encompassing in their world.  There is a quote from Churchill that goes "The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is."  The unfortunate thing is that there are so many versions of the truth.

Good post.
MWWSI 2017

Nally Stand

Former British Secretary of State for the north, Shaun Woodward, today said it was "crass and cruel" to bring Pat Finucane's family to Downing Street to say there would be no independent public inquiry into his murder, and that it was unsurprising the family walked out of yesterday's meeting.

The family have also released a statement today:

"My family and I were invited to Downing Street by the Prime Minister to hear the decision of the Government about holding a public inquiry into the murder of my husband, Pat Finucane. I have been to meetings in 10 Downing Street before but this is the first time I have been invited by a Prime Minster. I was hopeful and optimistic about today's meeting. I thought David Cameron intended to show courage and leadership on this issue. I thought he would confirm that his Government would establish a public inquiry. I dared to believe we might finally get the inquiry recommended by Judge Peter Cory in 2004.

I now know that courage and leadership on the issue of Pat's murder remains absent. The Prime Minister said he did not intend to hold a public inquiry. Instead, he proposed a review of the case by a senior QC selected by the British Government.

After 23 years of campaigning, 23 years of questions, 23 years of travelling the world gathering support for a public inquiry into Pat's murder, the offer of a 'review of the papers' is nothing less than an insult. My family and I were lured to Downing Street under false pretences. We thought we were going to be given the inquiry that was promised. Instead, the Government intends to do even less in Pat's case than in the other cases that were part of the Cory process.

My family will not be allowed to participate in this review. We will not be permitted to question witnesses. We will not be given copies of documents. In short, we are being asked to accept the result of a process from which we are completely excluded. We are being asked to trust the British Government. We were told that we should accept Mr. Cameron's assurance that this 'review of the papers' will get to the truth.

After 23 years, my family and I are beyond taking any British Prime Minister's word for anything. We have no hesitation in rejecting this sham proposal and will not be participating in it under any circumstances. It is a shoddy, half-hearted alternative to a proper public inquiry. It is not what we have sought for the last 23 years. It represents yet another broken promise by the British Government who still fear a public inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane and cannot bring themselves to uncover or confront the truth."

ENDS ....



"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Maguire01

I'm in two minds about this. Ideally yes, there should be an enquiry. And it seems clear that there are things to hide.

Having said that, it has been acknowledged that there was collusion and the family has had an apology from the government. That's a hell of a lot more than a lot of families have.

Then there's also the fact that it's not just sustainable to have endless inquiries... so where is the line drawn?

Tony Baloney

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on October 12, 2011, 09:48:47 AM
The war in the north was extremely dirty and full of propaganda bullshit and cover-ups.  I have personal experience of some stuff that no one on here has ever heard of and never will and trust me there are a lot of lies and a lot of collusion that went on.  The Finucane family deserve to know the truth but they never will.  The unfortunate thing is that the "truth" is also a subjective term, who's truth? 

There is no right answer to how the fallout from the Troubles be sorted out.  People give off about the "community development" work being a waste of tax payers money but the reality is that for thousands of people in the north the Troubles are still a very vivid part of their lives and the Government has to accept that.  Brendan McAllister, Victims Commissioner. recently commented that the level of "victims" is much higher in terms of numbers than has previously been estimated, and that includes members of the security forces and families of loyalists killed.  The Troubles lasted for 30 years, I was born in the middle of the worst of it.  It affected me and my family directly and when I tell people, who had no experience of it, what it was like they are shocked and disgusted at what happened to us and I wouldn't class myself as a victim.  The Government will not come clean, they will not accept responsibility, they had all their "agents" killed/shipped off or whatever over the last 10 years and the stories will never resurface.  I feel for the Finucane family, I know them(not well mind you) but I know this is all encompassing in their world.  There is a quote from Churchill that goes "The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is."  The unfortunate thing is that there are so many versions of the truth.
Well he would say that, wouldn't he.


Nally Stand

#51
Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 12, 2011, 08:35:49 PM
He was an IRA man, he got shot, get over it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3590237/Finucane-should-not-have-been-killed-but-he-was-in-the-IRA.html

The Stevens Inquiry team and even the RUC said he was not in the IRA.
But your article by Sean O'Callaghan (IRA man, turned tout, then UUP adviser) said he was, so it must be true. Informers are world renowned for telling the truth after all. Particuarly Sean O'Callaghan. ::)
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

windyshepardhenderson

lavey's finest

Myles Na G.

#53
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 12, 2011, 08:43:27 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 12, 2011, 08:35:49 PM
He was an IRA man, he got shot, get over it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3590237/Finucane-should-not-have-been-killed-but-he-was-in-the-IRA.html

The Stevens Inquiry team and even the RUC said he was not in the IRA.
But your article by Sean O'Callaghan said he was, so it must be true. Informers are world renowned for telling the truth after all. Particuarly Sean O'Callaghan. ::)
They could hardly say he was in the IRA when they didn't have the evidence to put him in court, could they? Just like they never had the evidence to put Gerry Adams behind bars either. Oh, hang on, Gerry wasn't in the IRA, was he? He said he wasn't so it must be true, eh? And Marty was a provo, but he left in 1974, didn't he? He said he did, so it must be true. As for informers, they lie and they tell the truth, probably in equal measure, like most people. Certainly like most Shinners, anyway.

Myles Na G.


Nally Stand

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 12, 2011, 08:55:51 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 12, 2011, 08:43:27 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 12, 2011, 08:35:49 PM
He was an IRA man, he got shot, get over it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3590237/Finucane-should-not-have-been-killed-but-he-was-in-the-IRA.html

The Stevens Inquiry team and even the RUC said he was not in the IRA.
But your article by Sean O'Callaghan said he was, so it must be true. Informers are world renowned for telling the truth after all. Particuarly Sean O'Callaghan. ::)
They could hardly say he was in the IRA when they didn't have the evidence to put him in court, could they? Just like they never had the evidence to put Gerry Adams behind bars either. Oh, hang on, Gerry wasn't in the IRA, was he? He said he wasn't so it must be true, eh? And Marty was a provo, but he left in 1974, didn't he? He said he did, so it must be true. As for informers, they lie and they tell the truth, probably in equal measure, like most people. Certainly like most Shinners, anyway.

OK so the RUC and the Stevens Inquiry team say he was not in the IRA, but you say they have no evidence, and so are not to be believed... but Sean "Liar" O'Callaghan says he was in the IRA, but also provides no evidence, so he is to be believed?!


This gets better and better!!
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Gold

Quote from: gallsman on October 11, 2011, 11:30:31 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 11, 2011, 10:44:50 PM
Dirty British b**tards. >:(

What saddened me was the 'nothing at all approach' from the government down here.

What has saddened me the most since I moved to Dublin six years ago is the attitude (or lack thereof) of a majority of people, particularly young people, to the North. Not only do they not know or care, they don't want to know or care.

Very true Gallsman.

It seems to me that No one down below knows or cares. The North may as well be Swedan for all most know or care
"Cheeky Charlie McKenna..."

Myles Na G.

Quote from: Nally Stand on October 12, 2011, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 12, 2011, 08:55:51 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 12, 2011, 08:43:27 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 12, 2011, 08:35:49 PM
He was an IRA man, he got shot, get over it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3590237/Finucane-should-not-have-been-killed-but-he-was-in-the-IRA.html

The Stevens Inquiry team and even the RUC said he was not in the IRA.
But your article by Sean O'Callaghan said he was, so it must be true. Informers are world renowned for telling the truth after all. Particuarly Sean O'Callaghan. ::)
They could hardly say he was in the IRA when they didn't have the evidence to put him in court, could they? Just like they never had the evidence to put Gerry Adams behind bars either. Oh, hang on, Gerry wasn't in the IRA, was he? He said he wasn't so it must be true, eh? And Marty was a provo, but he left in 1974, didn't he? He said he did, so it must be true. As for informers, they lie and they tell the truth, probably in equal measure, like most people. Certainly like most Shinners, anyway.

OK so the RUC and the Stevens Inquiry team say he was not in the IRA, but you say they have no evidence, and so are not to be believed... but Sean "Liar" O'Callaghan says he was in the IRA, but also provides no evidence, so he is to be believed?!


This gets better and better!!
Eyewitness accounts are recognised in most courts of law, I think you'll find. O'Callaghan was in the IRA and he says he encountered PF as a 'colleague' in the course of his activities. That's evidence. Do you also insert the word 'liar' when you refer to Gerry and Marty? If not, why not?

Nally Stand

Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 12, 2011, 09:17:06 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 12, 2011, 09:04:17 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 12, 2011, 08:55:51 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 12, 2011, 08:43:27 PM
Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 12, 2011, 08:35:49 PM
He was an IRA man, he got shot, get over it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3590237/Finucane-should-not-have-been-killed-but-he-was-in-the-IRA.html

The Stevens Inquiry team and even the RUC said he was not in the IRA.
But your article by Sean O'Callaghan said he was, so it must be true. Informers are world renowned for telling the truth after all. Particuarly Sean O'Callaghan. ::)
They could hardly say he was in the IRA when they didn't have the evidence to put him in court, could they? Just like they never had the evidence to put Gerry Adams behind bars either. Oh, hang on, Gerry wasn't in the IRA, was he? He said he wasn't so it must be true, eh? And Marty was a provo, but he left in 1974, didn't he? He said he did, so it must be true. As for informers, they lie and they tell the truth, probably in equal measure, like most people. Certainly like most Shinners, anyway.

OK so the RUC and the Stevens Inquiry team say he was not in the IRA, but you say they have no evidence, and so are not to be believed... but Sean "Liar" O'Callaghan says he was in the IRA, but also provides no evidence, so he is to be believed?!


This gets better and better!!
Eyewitness accounts are recognised in most courts of law, I think you'll find. O'Callaghan was in the IRA and he says he encountered PF as a 'colleague' in the course of his activities. That's evidence. Do you also insert the word 'liar' when you refer to Gerry and Marty? If not, why not?

:D :D :D The opinions of police and of government appointed Independent Inquiries tend to be heeded in a court of law too you know!!!! and both the RUC and the Stevens team said he was not in the IRA!! I'm sure british informer and UUP adivser Sean O'Callaghan is much more reliable and impartial anyone else though, you're right.
"The island of saints & scholars...and gombeens & fuckin' arselickers" Christy Moore

Oraisteach

"He was an IRA man, he got shot, get over it."

So, that's it—your considered analysis of sanctioned assassination by the state.  And we're not talking of some obscure banana republic where law is meted out at the whim of the tyrant.

No, we're talking the UK, the epitome of moral and judicial rectitude.
When agents of the state are complicit in the assassination of citizens of that state, then throw out habeas corpus and corpus dilicti.  And when the state kicks in your door, Myles, without even the masquerade of a kangaroo court, you'll be OK with their "get over it" response.

Great.  Nothing like human rights being upheld by people with the moral firmness of a marshmallow.

Myles, it is late, and you have long since gone to bed, unfortunately, and left the world to the creatures of the night.