American Sports Thread

[magickingdom]

Still don't understand why Clemens wanted to go to Congress. If everything went for him, he didn't gain anything and if it went tits up (which it has) he's looking at jail time. I don't know if he was very badly advised or if he was just so arrogant that he thought he could blag it.

Probably the greatest pitcher ever (and certainly the greatest of the modern era) but you have to wonder whether his record means anything.

dont know if you've ever read george kimball sammy (boston sports writer (you a red sox fan and all!)) but he argues that clemens biggest problem is he's thick, most of the rest of his problems stem from that. as for his record, its junk imo..

[rdw]

Still don't understand why Clemens wanted to go to Congress. If everything went for him, he didn't gain anything and if it went tits up (which it has) he's looking at jail time. I don't know if he was very badly advised or if he was just so arrogant that he thought he could blag it.

Probably the greatest pitcher ever (and certainly the greatest of the modern era) but you have to wonder whether his record means anything.

HIs place in the Hall of fame relied on him being pardoned or at least admonished of guilt.
The stupid misguided arrrogant p***k.
Don't drop the soap Roger.

[heganboy]

 The senate committee says there are 7 "inconsistencies" in his testimony
taken from http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-splott295595820feb29,0,6818107.story

On the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform's Web site, the letter that refers Roger Clemens' case to the Department of Justice is posted along with a staff memo prepared for the chairman, Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.). It breaks down the perjury case against Clemens in fascinating detail, almost as if it were a Cliffs Notes version of the Feb. 13 congressional hearing. Here is a summary of the memo's seven points made by Clemens under oath "that appear to be contradicted by other evidence before the committee or implausible."

1. CLEMENS SAID HE'S NEVER TAKEN STEROIDS OR HGH

Brian McNamee testified that he injected Clemens with performance-enhancing drugs in 1998, 2000 and 2001, which Clemens vehemently denied. However, Chuck Knoblauch and Andy Pettitte said McNamee told the truth about their use of performance-enhancing drugs. Therefore, the memo states, "There is little reason to believe that Mr. McNamee would provide truthful testimony about Mr. Pettitte and Mr. Knoblauch, but false testimony about Mr. Clemens.''
 
The memo also points out the contradiction that was perhaps most damning of all to Clemens: that his close friend, Pettitte, testified under oath that Clemens told him in 1999 or 2000 that he used HGH, and then in 2005 told Pettitte that is not accurate.

Under a "medical evidence'' sub-category, the memo focuses on an abscess Clemens developed on his buttocks in 1998, which McNamee believes was a result of a steroid shot he rushedDr. Mark Murphy, chief of musculoskeletal radiology at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, said an injury that appeared on an MRI was "more compatible with a Winstrol injection'' than a B-12 shot, as Clemens said.

2. CLEMENS SAID MCNAMEE INJECTED HIM WITH LIDOCAINE

Clemens said in his deposition that McNamee "gave me lidocaine once'' in my "lower back.'' However, McNamee said, "I never injected Roger Clemens or anyone else with lidocaine.'' The memo points out that Blue Jays trainer Tommy Craig and assistant trainer Scott Shannon testified that, essentially, a lidocaine shot by a trainer is unheard of.

3. CLEMENS TESTIFIED TEAM TRAINERS GAVE HIM PAIN INJECTIONS

Clemens testified that trainers from all four teams he played for gave him pain injections. However, the memo reports that trainers from the Blue Jays, Astros and Red Sox denied that in separate depositions. Only Yankees trainer Gene Monahan admitted to giving Clemens one injection, "a light dose of Toradol,'' which is a pain medication.

4. CLEMENS TESTIFIED THAT HE RECEIVED MANY B-12 INJECTIONS

The memo said, "When asked if he had received these injections from team doctors, nurses or team trainers, he replied, 'All of the above.''' However, the memo reports that they received Clemens' medical records dating from 1995 and that there is only one record of a B-12 injection, on the July 28, 1998 medical report regarding Clemens' abscess.

5. CLEMENS TESTIFIED HE NEVER DISCUSSED HGH WITH MCNAMEE

The memo called Clemens out for what they say are blatant lies. "In his deposition, Mr. Clemens was asked repeatedly whether he had spoken with Mr. McNamee about human growth hormone. He denied . . . These answers were not truthful.'' That's because Clemens later says he learned McNamee injected Clemens' wife, Debbie, with HGH after the fact, and "had two specific conversations with Mr. McNamee about HGH.''

6. CLEMENS TESTIFIED HE WAS NOT AT JOSE CANSECO'S HOUSE FROM JUNE 8 TO JUNE 10, 1998

Clemens was most adamant about this in his deposition. McNamee testified Clemens was there. However, the memo points out that the testimony by Clemens' nanny places him at the Canseco house. At the committee's hearing, Clemens testified that he was "not totally positive'' that he did not go to the Canseco home after playing golf to drop off his wife before going to the ballpark. The implication was that Clemens curiously changed his story.

7. CLEMENS SAID HE WAS "NEVER TOLD" ABOUT SEN. MITCHELL'S REQUEST

The memo references Clemens' interview with Mike Wallace on "60 Minutes'' in which he explained that he did not speak with Sen. George Mitchell because he "listened to counsel.'' But according to the memo, "In his deposition before the Committee, Mr. Clemens gave a different and contradictory explanation, stating at least six times under oath that he had no idea that Senator Mitchell was seeking to interview him.''

[stew]

Still don't understand why Clemens wanted to go to Congress. If everything went for him, he didn't gain anything and if it went tits up (which it has) he's looking at jail time. I don't know if he was very badly advised or if he was just so arrogant that he thought he could blag it.

Probably the greatest pitcher ever (and certainly the greatest of the modern era) but you have to wonder whether his record means anything.

Nail hit on head sammy, arrogance has killed him.

As for him being the greatest pitcher ever, I would have to disagree, Koufax was the best ever however longevity is not in his favour. Clemens has gotten better with age and I think we all know why. I thought clemens was a tremendous pitcher when the Red Sox let him go and thought they had made a huge mistake. They brought Pedro in and they never missed a beat, how many titles would Boston have won if they had kept both?

Nolan Ryan is also up there. For me Clemens is number three on the list of best pitchers ever until it comes out that he lied, at that point I dont think he should even be considered. I consider him a liar and a fool, and worst of all, a walking advertisement of all that is wrong with professional sports in America.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3274467

The Pittsburgh Steelers and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger have agreed to a new eight-year, $102 million contract.

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Brett Favre hangs them up

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7870944/Favre-has-decided-to-call-it-a-career

[stew]

Brett Favre hangs them up

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7870944/Favre-has-decided-to-call-it-a-career

Green Bay is in a state of shock, the state of Wisconsin is in shock.

Gab Hurl. You got to see them man in his final year, he will go down as one of the best three players ever to play the game.

It was time for him to move on. Aaron Rogers, the backup quarterback is going to be a stud, he will get the job done for Green Bay.

Nobody is talking about this but I wouldnt be surprised if Favre decides to unretire just before the end of training camp and I could see him in a Dolfins uniform. Call me a cynic but I dont think he has played his last down in the NFL.

[Puckoon]

I think Brett took a brave and wise decision. The last of the QBs who played for fun, and loved to take a chance.

[thejuice]

Aye, he was great to watch, had that kind or gunslinger, chance-taker kinda vibe about him. even in the way he spoke. Great player, and perhaps deserved more than 1 superbowl but hey more than Dan Marino. He'll be in the hall of fame before you know it.

G       GS   Comp   Att      Yds       TD    Int
257   253   5,377   8,758   61,655  442  288

[Minder]

Reality check for all you Favre fans.......

We interrupt the continued deification of Brett Favre -- a first-ballot Hall of Famer and the most durable player in NFL history -- with the following reality check.


Yes, Favre played long enough to throw the most touchdown passes and collect the most wins by an NFL quarterback. But let's examine the second half of No. 4's career. The truth is, Favre did little over the past decade to earn the gushing praise heaped upon him by our fawning brethren in the media.

In his 17 seasons, Brett Favre set numerous NFL records, including most yards passing (61,655) and most touchdowns (442).



But do those numbers, combined with Favre's three MVP awards and one Super Bowl victory, put him among the top 10 quarterbacks of all time?


After beating the San Francisco 49ers in the 1997 NFC Championship Game, Favre won just three of his last 10 playoff games. Eli Manning had more postseason wins in a 29-day span this past season than Favre had in his last decade with the Green Bay Packers.

Yes, Favre won a Super Bowl -- 11 years ago! But as his career arc spiraled downward, the blind adulation only got worse.

Favre's passer rating in his last 12 postseason games was a pedestrian 77.8. In his last five wild-card games, he went 2-3 with more interceptions (nine) than touchdown passes (seven). In his last three divisional playoff games, he went 1-2 with seven TDs and seven interceptions. That's a 3-5 record with 14 touchdown passes and 16 picks.

In two of his last four postseason appearances, Favre threw two of the most unthinkable playoff interceptions in NFL history, both in overtime -- to Brian Dawkins of the Philadelphia Eagles in 2003 and to Corey Webster of the New York Giants in January. In fact, Favre is the only quarterback in NFL history to throw overtime interceptions in two playoff games. In his last nine playoff games, Favre threw 18 interceptions.

Brett Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Fellow Packer star quarterback Bart Starr, above, was 9-1.
In the first 81 years of the Green Bay franchise, the most hallowed in all of pro football, the Packers were 13-0 at home in the postseason. But since 2002, the Packers have gone 2-3 in playoff games at Lambeau Field, with Favre losing to three not-quite Hall of Fame quarterbacks: Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper and Manning.


If Manning had a decade like that, he'd be run out of New York. If Philip Rivers kept chucking ridiculous overtime interceptions in the postseason, he would be branded a first-round bust. If Drew Brees came up short in three out of five home playoff games, he'd be mocked.

But no matter how many dumb passes he threw and how many playoff games he lost, Favre remains immune to criticism.

Favre isn't even the greatest quarterback in the history of the Packers. It's not even close. Bart Starr won five NFL championships -- four more than Favre -- and retired as the NFL's most accurate passer.

Oh, you say Starr was surrounded by a Hall of Fame roster with a legendary coach. But Starr still is the NFL record holder with a 104.8 career playoff passer rating, nearly 20 points higher than Favre's. That wasn't Vince Lombardi or Ray Nitschke throwing those passes for Starr, whose career postseason passer rating, by the way, is 38 points higher than Johnny Unitas'.

Favre's career playoff record was 12-10. Starr's was 9-1 -- without the benefit of wild-card games. Favre threw 28 interceptions in 22 playoff games. Starr threw three in 10. Think about that -- just three picks in 213 postseason attempts.



But Bart Starr gets the Ringo Starr treatment -- underappreciated and overlooked. Favre gets put on a pedestal. Yes, he had a Pro Bowl season in 2007 with the youngest roster in the NFL. But his final moment on Lambeau Field was a wildly errant pass that turned into the NFC title for the Giants.



Indeed, a decade after his last moments of glory, the football hype machine continues to paint Favre as a hallowed icon of Americana, a symbol of all that is right with sports, a Wild West gun-slinging good ol' boy. There's Brett on the farm! There's Brett with his family! There's Brett on the cover of Sports Illustrated! There's Brett throwing another overtime interception!

Favre was among the best in the game, once upon a time. Those days are long gone. Only the idolatry remains.

[Puckoon]

f**king detractors. How many times have they been hit by a linebacker and still bounced up and scored a touchdown?

[magickingdom]

his debut for green bay as a starter was on 27 sept 1992 and he began every single game played by the packers until now, thats 253 consecutive starts (almost 100 more than the next qb on the list). enough said..

[Minder]

excellence in durability no doubt. . . .

[dec]

March madness is coming up, I know we had a pick your bracket competition in the past. Can anyone remember which site we used?

[AZOffaly]

cbssportsline was it?

Can you bet on this? I fancy Georgetown.