Ashers cake controversy.

[seafoid]

I know in the US evangelical protestants are more resistant to accepting the gay agenda than other people.  Nordie Prods are related to the evangelical's since  a lot of evangelicals have Ulster roots. The GOP spent years flogging guns god and gays to people. The born again protestants take a literal view of the Bible. And there were no RTE Guide interviews with gay TV personalities in the Bible.

Catholics don't take the Bible as seriously . Sin is nobody else's business.

I would have a lot of sympathy for Ashers. You dont have to be a religious fundi to find the Grindr way of life sad.
The cake story is very political. Look at these backward prods in this provincial kip . The gay lobby is high profile and very organised . I would be interested in seeing support for Ashers amongst Brexit voters.


And I do like Felix the House cat's version of "I want to be a lesbian"

[seafoid]

Obviously its a complicated issue and could set some difficult precedents but ultimately I think the cake shop owner ought to have their religious views respected even if I don't personally agree with them. Plenty of other religious views are accommodated by businesses across Europe despite the questionable moral ethics of some of their practices. In this instance this is the least incendiary case I can think of and yet look at the storm its creating, and this families livelihood could be in jeopardy over it.

I've spoken to some gay lads who've told me they find it all embarrassing. In their words "Its just a bloody cake, can't they just go somewhere else, there is plenty of other places". But then they weren't that keen on gay marriage or modern gay activism in general.

Maith thu

It is very complicated

[doodaa]

If they had baked the cake and offered it for sale to him without the slogan surely that would have kept them on the right side of the law

As OmaghJoe said above, they could have said they were busy. They could have done what many tradesmen the world over do every day and 'forgot' or another favourite, price it so high that no one in their right mind would pay for it lol. They could have got the message wring and 'accidentally' wrote something else.

It looks to me that Ashers wanted the fight, and still want it.

Agreed.

[muppet]

BBC legal correspondent Joshua Rozenberg provides (a bit) of clarity:

"... there was nothing in the court's decision requiring Ashers or any other business to promote a view with which the company's directors disagreed. Ashers can keep within the law and not promote "other people's views" by confining its custom-made service to birthday cakes — which is what it has said it will do.

A Jewish or Christian shopkeeper is not required to trade on the Sabbath just as a Muslim butcher is not required to sell pork. But if a business does supply a service, it must not discriminate on grounds of sexual orientation — which means it must not refuse to provide a gay person with goods that it would provide to others.

In this case, said the courts, the correct comparison was not with a straight man who wanted a "gay" cake, which Ashers would have refused. It was with a gay or straight person who ordered a cake celebrating traditional marriage — which the company would have supplied.

And, as the appeal judges said, "the fact that a baker provides a cake for a particular team or portrays witches on a Halloween cake does not indicate any support for either."

In fairness to the judges, they are some very good examples.

[armaghniac]

BBC legal correspondent Joshua Rozenberg provides (a bit) of clarity:

"... there was nothing in the court's decision requiring Ashers or any other business to promote a view with which the company's directors disagreed. Ashers can keep within the law and not promote "other people's views" by confining its custom-made service to birthday cakes — which is what it has said it will do.

A Jewish or Christian shopkeeper is not required to trade on the Sabbath just as a Muslim butcher is not required to sell pork. But if a business does supply a service, it must not discriminate on grounds of sexual orientation — which means it must not refuse to provide a gay person with goods that it would provide to others.

In this case, said the courts, the correct comparison was not with a straight man who wanted a "gay" cake, which Ashers would have refused. It was with a gay or straight person who ordered a cake celebrating traditional marriage — which the company would have supplied.

And, as the appeal judges said, "the fact that a baker provides a cake for a particular team or portrays witches on a Halloween cake does not indicate any support for either."

In fairness to the judges, they are some very good examples.

Things like witches on Halloween or "Mayo for Sam" are mere fantasy and are not serious issues.

[easytiger95]

I know in the US evangelical protestants are more resistant to accepting the gay agenda than other people.  Nordie Prods are related to the evangelical's since  a lot of evangelicals have Ulster roots. The GOP spent years flogging guns god and gays to people. The born again protestants take a literal view of the Bible. And there were no RTE Guide interviews with gay TV personalities in the Bible.

Catholics don't take the Bible as seriously . Sin is nobody else's business.

I would have a lot of sympathy for Ashers. You dont have to be a religious fundi to find the Grindr way of life sad.
The cake story is very political. Look at these backward prods in this provincial kip . The gay lobby is high profile and very organised . I would be interested in seeing support for Ashers amongst Brexit voters.


And I do like Felix the House cat's version of "I want to be a lesbian"

The "Grindr" way of life? I'm assuming that you're making the point that you think all gays are promiscuous? When they were going to get a cake promoting marriage? Which is an institution with monogamy as its core principle?

I notice a lot of people's "liberalism" doesn't extend as far as their ignorance.

[Declan]

Interesting perspective here

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment-here-is-the-hypocrisy-at-the-heart-of-the-gay-wedding-cake-case-35159144.html

[No wides]

Gay goes out of his way to be offended and basks in the limelight - only in Norn Ireland.

[haranguerer]

Interesting perspective here

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment-here-is-the-hypocrisy-at-the-heart-of-the-gay-wedding-cake-case-35159144.html

That's just a load of sh**e

[armaghniac]

Interesting perspective here

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment-here-is-the-hypocrisy-at-the-heart-of-the-gay-wedding-cake-case-35159144.html

That's just a load of sh**e

With such insisive analysis of the issue,  you should write an article yourself.

[Main Street]

BBC legal correspondent Joshua Rozenberg provides (a bit) of clarity:

"... there was nothing in the court's decision requiring Ashers or any other business to promote a view with which the company's directors disagreed. Ashers can keep within the law and not promote "other people's views" by confining its custom-made service to birthday cakes — which is what it has said it will do.

What happens if some gay person comes in and requests a birthday cake with the text on the icing
"happy birthday to my gay lover"?

A Jewish or Christian shopkeeper is not required to trade on the Sabbath just as a Muslim butcher is not required to sell pork. But if a business does supply a service, it must not discriminate on grounds of sexual orientation — which means it must not refuse to provide a gay person with goods that it would provide to others.

A registered business is an independent entity, separate  from the religious character and  convictions of those who own it and run it.
The 2 McArthurs as individuals have their individual religious rights and convictions protected by law
but their commercial bakery business does not inherit those same convictions. The bakery business does not take on board the religious convictions of the owners. The business has it's own entity which has to conform to the law, in this case the equality law. Just as a religious group may have a conviction that paying tax to evolutionists is sinful, but if those religious folk run a business, that business is required to conform to the tax laws

In this case, said the courts, the correct comparison was not with a straight man who wanted a "gay" cake, which Ashers would have refused. It was with a gay or straight person who ordered a cake celebrating traditional marriage — which the company would have supplied.

And, as the appeal judges said, "the fact that a baker provides a cake for a particular team or portrays witches on a Halloween cake does not indicate any support for either."

The issue was not about how a general public interpret the actions of a baker who prepared such a cake for a gay wedding.
I think the judge was getting ahead of him/herself
Can the judge speak for the public who frequent the bakery premise, the locality or the church and claim to know how those people think? Those people may have strict fundamentalist views and chose to take their business to a baker with true faith and actions.

I can see that the bakers had not an earthly or godly chance to successfully appeal the original judgement  but I really have a distaste and no respect for the legal action taken against them.
Just because there was a clear legal basis for the discrimination case did not make it right and proper.
The offense imo was 100% manufactured drama.

[seafoid]

I know in the US evangelical protestants are more resistant to accepting the gay agenda than other people.  Nordie Prods are related to the evangelical's since  a lot of evangelicals have Ulster roots. The GOP spent years flogging guns god and gays to people. The born again protestants take a literal view of the Bible. And there were no RTE Guide interviews with gay TV personalities in the Bible.

Catholics don't take the Bible as seriously . Sin is nobody else's business.

I would have a lot of sympathy for Ashers. You dont have to be a religious fundi to find the Grindr way of life sad.
The cake story is very political. Look at these backward prods in this provincial kip . The gay lobby is high profile and very organised . I would be interested in seeing support for Ashers amongst Brexit voters.


And I do like Felix the House cat's version of "I want to be a lesbian"

The "Grindr" way of life? I'm assuming that you're making the point that you think all gays are promiscuous? When they were going to get a cake promoting marriage? Which is an institution with monogamy as its core principle?

I notice a lot of people's "liberalism" doesn't extend as far as their ignorance.

I'm not . Gay people can be as conventional as everyone else.
But grindr culture has its own conventions. Women have different wiring than men so finding them ready and gagging within 50 metres takes more work, typically.   

There are still aspect of gay culture that certain people don't like. A lot of older people don't like the idea of young women as walking orifices either. It's never going to to be possible to get everyone to agree on sexuality. 
The whole area of porn is a mess. 

The core principles of marriage are social respectability and property regulation.
People are entitled to do what they want in private. But it is hard to get certain Protestant groups to accept the gay agenda. 

[easytiger95]

Jesus.

Women have different wiring than men so finding them ready and gagging within 50 metres takes more work, typically.   

Try putting these words together in a coherent sentence - "hole", "digging" and "stop".

Ashers were objecting to an order in from a couple supporting gay marriage. You said you had sympathy for Ashers, then made your comment about the "Grindr" way of life.

Even if I grant you that the "Grindr" way of life is a thing (and let's completely forget about the masses of single heterosexual people on Tinder), the couple in looking for the cake were supporting a cause diametrically opposite to promiscuity - so either Asher's are so ignorant as to be unable to tell the difference, in which case you should probably withhold your sympathy for them - or you are unable to tell the difference, in which case I'll probably withhold my sympathy for you.

It's a crude generalisation and you'd be the very one up in arms if someone was to use such a generalisation about any of the many constituencies whose causes you espouse on this board.

Also, just a tip - I wouldn't be telling women about how different their wiring is - if you want to walk away with your own wiring intact, that is...

[seafoid]

Easy

Women are different. If you were capable of getting pregnant you'd be different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpcJCRN9SfU

[easytiger95]

You weren't talking biology, you were talking psychology. I like the Trumpian pivot though.