The ulster rugby trial

[Main Street]

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/martina-devlin-twotier-morality-means-girls-face-an-impossible-list-of-dos-and-donts-36757069.html

Dear lord!!!

How does that nonsense get published??

Are you completely at a loss for common sense  to take on board some of the points made in that article?
Do you think there is no merit for such a rape case to be held in camera, for the complainant  or the accused who were deemed not guilty? That even in a trial where the prosecution case had much more substance, that such an experience for the complainant would be any easier? That such a court experience could be perceived as an off putting ordeal for a complainant?
You don't think people are entitled to have an opinion on the the loutish carry on of the accused?

I was talking about the whole 'Do and Don't' list crap she spouts.

She makes a few valid points towards the end but in the main it's nonsense and simply fuelling the ongoing trial by social media.

Only  few valid points at the end??
I was surprised that it's regarded as proper procedure for a lawyer to find a petty context so he can have the complainant's purple lacy underwear paraded about court, first to the judge then to be passed around to every one in the jury.

Let's have a look at some of the perceived do and donts which arose out of this trial and is not about "believe her"
Which ones of these are nonsense to a woman who has been raped and is considering making a complaint?
"Do expect to have your purple lacy underwear paraded about court."
"Don't expect the judicial system to support you – chances are you'll feel let down by its workings"
"Don't expect other women to follow your example and make complaints if they believe themselves to be the victims of sex crime cases. They won't"
"Do expect to feel like the person on trial rather than the complainant."

[Owen Brannigan]

What have we learned over the 200+ pages of this thread?

We have learned a lot about the significant number of posters on this Board who have contributed one or more posts to it. Some of it good, some we already suspected about each other and some that has been eye opening.

Tony Fearon will never be gone in spirit while we still have some of those who have posted on this thread.

Oh, and it is very difficult to prove rape beyond reasonable doubt especially in the absence of good forensic evidence. How many would have thought that the legal definition of rape was so complex?

[AZOffaly]

The one thing that I learned was the physical response to rape. I would have assumed that a girl, in a house full of other people, would scream at least if she was being raped. I am genuinely gobsmacked that this is not the case, and I hold up my hands that I was completely ill informed about that. I thought the fight or flight reflex would kick in.

I could see it in a dark alley type scenario with no one around, but in a busy house? I was very surprised and had my eyes opened on that.

[Milltown Row2]

The one thing that I learned was the physical response to rape. I would have assumed that a girl, in a house full of other people, would scream at least if she was being raped. I am genuinely gobsmacked that this is not the case, and I hold up my hands that I was completely ill informed about that. I thought the fight or flight reflex would kick in.

I could see it in a dark alley type scenario with no one around, but in a busy house? I was very surprised and had my eyes opened on that.

Are you saying she was raped then? Or are you using a different scenario ?

[Avondhu star]

The evidence wasnt there to satisfy the jury. Changing the rules to make convictions easier to get would be wrong and an affront to fair procedures.
Flutes like the Dublin Senator that the electorate rejected in the General Election should know better and I hope Jackson takes him for a good few thousand

[AZOffaly]

The one thing that I learned was the physical response to rape. I would have assumed that a girl, in a house full of other people, would scream at least if she was being raped. I am genuinely gobsmacked that this is not the case, and I hold up my hands that I was completely ill informed about that. I thought the fight or flight reflex would kick in.

I could see it in a dark alley type scenario with no one around, but in a busy house? I was very surprised and had my eyes opened on that.

Are you saying she was raped then? Or are you using a different scenario ?

No, I'm saying I was educated in this thread by people who quoted research and scientific findings.

[yellowcard]

I'm very surprised Jackson has chosen to sue, he really isn't doing himself any favours as it is only going to prolong the sage for him. It's probably his way of trying to shut down any negative public commentary on him and by choosing a senator out of the hundreds of negative online comments, he is trying to send out a message to silence the critics.

He has a big job on his hand to try and salvage his career and I don't think that is the way to go about it. I hope that they can be allowed to get on with their lives, they have been found not guilty of a crime and their reaction to it will decide how willing people will be to forgive their actions. For me, they deserve another chance to resurrect their careers but for some people they will always be tarnished. Olding's reaction after the trial at least had a bit of dignity.   

[Sweeper 123]

One thing i have noted is that in the ROI we are hearing alot about consent and the need for this to be covered with school kids as part of their education especially by the Politicians;

Nothing really, that i am aware of, by NI politicians;

\

[sid waddell]

I have to say I am still conflicted by both sides of this episode. That said proving something beyond all reasonable doubt is difficult. You can not find someone guilty on a balance of probabilities. In terms of behaviour I am appalled at they way these guys got on, but they weren't on trial for appalling behaviour, they were on trial for rape and sexual assault. If the jury did not accept that this girl had with held contempt, 3 1/2 hours is plenty of time to reach a conclusion. It has been said already that there are no winners here. The rallies may be well meaning but they are unfair and in my opinion do a disservice to those contemplating reporting a rape.

I really cannot fathom how the protests do a disservice to the people reporting a rape. That is an incredible stance to take.

There has been significant sentiment from women online and apparently at the protests too that they would not now report a rape were it to happen to them.

While I understand why such sentiment has been expressed given the ordeal the complainant had to go through at the trial, it is disheartening to hear it, and the sentiments themselves are both wrong and dangerous in my view.

[Milltown Row2]

I'm very surprised Jackson has chosen to sue, he really isn't doing himself any favours as it is only going to prolong the sage for him. It's probably his way of trying to shut down any negative public commentary on him and by choosing a senator out of the hundreds of negative online comments, he is trying to send out a message to silence the critics.

He has a big job on his hand to try and salvage his career and I don't think that is the way to go about it. I hope that they can be allowed to get on with their lives, they have been found not guilty of a crime and their reaction to it will decide how willing people will be to forgive their actions. For me, they deserve another chance to resurrect their careers but for some people they will always be tarnished. Olding's reaction after the trial at least had a bit of dignity.   

Are you for real? If your name was dragged through the mud and this continuous #ibelieveher crowd was berating you, you'd be happy to say nowt and move on with the shit fest that's become of it?

When you are in his shoes you can make that choice, until then he's well within his rights to pick who he wants to sue. They have been waiting on this for two years, not 9 weeks. The BBC leaked who it was even before charges were brought, they are in trouble too

[Syferus]

I'm very surprised Jackson has chosen to sue, he really isn't doing himself any favours as it is only going to prolong the sage for him. It's probably his way of trying to shut down any negative public commentary on him and by choosing a senator out of the hundreds of negative online comments, he is trying to send out a message to silence the critics.

He has a big job on his hand to try and salvage his career and I don't think that is the way to go about it. I hope that they can be allowed to get on with their lives, they have been found not guilty of a crime and their reaction to it will decide how willing people will be to forgive their actions. For me, they deserve another chance to resurrect their careers but for some people they will always be tarnished. Olding's reaction after the trial at least had a bit of dignity.   

Are you for real? If your name was dragged through the mud and this continuous #ibelieveher crowd was berating you, you'd be happy to say nowt and move on with the shit fest that's become of it?

When you are in his shoes you can make that choice, until then he's well within his rights to pick who he wants to sue. They have been waiting on this for two years, not 9 weeks. The BBC leaked who it was even before charges were brought, they are in trouble too

He drug his own name through the mud with his actions.

[Milltown Row2]

I'm very surprised Jackson has chosen to sue, he really isn't doing himself any favours as it is only going to prolong the sage for him. It's probably his way of trying to shut down any negative public commentary on him and by choosing a senator out of the hundreds of negative online comments, he is trying to send out a message to silence the critics.

He has a big job on his hand to try and salvage his career and I don't think that is the way to go about it. I hope that they can be allowed to get on with their lives, they have been found not guilty of a crime and their reaction to it will decide how willing people will be to forgive their actions. For me, they deserve another chance to resurrect their careers but for some people they will always be tarnished. Olding's reaction after the trial at least had a bit of dignity.   

Are you for real? If your name was dragged through the mud and this continuous #ibelieveher crowd was berating you, you'd be happy to say nowt and move on with the shit fest that's become of it?

When you are in his shoes you can make that choice, until then he's well within his rights to pick who he wants to sue. They have been waiting on this for two years, not 9 weeks. The BBC leaked who it was even before charges were brought, they are in trouble too

He drug his own name through the mud with his actions.

Having sex with someone? Are you on the wind up?

[AQMP]

I'm very surprised Jackson has chosen to sue, he really isn't doing himself any favours as it is only going to prolong the sage for him. It's probably his way of trying to shut down any negative public commentary on him and by choosing a senator out of the hundreds of negative online comments, he is trying to send out a message to silence the critics.

He has a big job on his hand to try and salvage his career and I don't think that is the way to go about it. I hope that they can be allowed to get on with their lives, they have been found not guilty of a crime and their reaction to it will decide how willing people will be to forgive their actions. For me, they deserve another chance to resurrect their careers but for some people they will always be tarnished. Olding's reaction after the trial at least had a bit of dignity.   

Are you for real? If your name was dragged through the mud and this continuous #ibelieveher crowd was berating you, you'd be happy to say nowt and move on with the shit fest that's become of it?

When you are in his shoes you can make that choice, until then he's well within his rights to pick who he wants to sue. They have been waiting on this for two years, not 9 weeks. The BBC leaked who it was even before charges were brought, they are in trouble too

Take a look...or maybe don't...at #suemepaddy.  I won't copy the tweet from @flyingteacosy as I don't want Kevin Winters on my case but it will give you a flavour

[yellowcard]

I'm very surprised Jackson has chosen to sue, he really isn't doing himself any favours as it is only going to prolong the sage for him. It's probably his way of trying to shut down any negative public commentary on him and by choosing a senator out of the hundreds of negative online comments, he is trying to send out a message to silence the critics.

He has a big job on his hand to try and salvage his career and I don't think that is the way to go about it. I hope that they can be allowed to get on with their lives, they have been found not guilty of a crime and their reaction to it will decide how willing people will be to forgive their actions. For me, they deserve another chance to resurrect their careers but for some people they will always be tarnished. Olding's reaction after the trial at least had a bit of dignity.   

Are you for real? If your name was dragged through the mud and this continuous #ibelieveher crowd was berating you, you'd be happy to say nowt and move on with the shit fest that's become of it?

When you are in his shoes you can make that choice, until then he's well within his rights to pick who he wants to sue. They have been waiting on this for two years, not 9 weeks. The BBC leaked who it was even before charges were brought, they are in trouble too

If his name is being dragged through the mud it is not because of a single tweet (mild compared to many) from a senator, even though the tweets implication of them getting off because of being from a middle class background is clearly nonsensical in this case. I just think it is going to allow the whole womens rights movement to mobilise even more. When people feel that they are being threatened to 'zip it' their attitudes simply harden and this is not going to help him to win back any public sympathy. It must be difficult for those men to deal with the backlash and they don't need to be taking advice from a bunch of solicitors to deal with it, but need a proper support network of friends and family around them. Issuing lawsuits and threatening to sue anyone else wouldn't be the approach I would be taking, thats just my opinion. The sooner this story becomes yesterdays news the better.         

[Milltown Row2]

Don't do twitter! This would be the only social media thingy I'd be on..