The ulster rugby trial

[AQMP]

You'd have to wonder about the competence of the defence team allowing McIlroy take the stand. I understand Jackson (had to explain his version of the Dara Florence interruption), neutral re Olding, but nothing to be gained and only something to be lost by letting the other 2 talk. McIlroy, in particular because he's a headcase (and maybe an imbecile), and Harrison because he was genuinely worried something untoward had happened even though he hadnt witnessed it first hand.

Unsure re whether Harrison will take the stand, but McIlroy as a defence witness has not helped the defence one iota, and could very well have damaged it

I'd say at this stage McIlroy's QC has said "It's every man for himself here, you've got to concentrate on your case not theirs.  Every chance they'll get off and you'll be convicted"

If I were Harrison I'd probably risk taking the stand.  He wasn't involved in the alleged sexual assault, the girl has no complaints about his behaviour (quite the opposite) and he could portray himself as an decent, ordinary guy caught up in an extraordinary situation and panicked a bit, deleted some texts etc which I now regret etc etc

[gallsman]

The whole McIlroy angle is very strange altogether. Not sure if Toby Hedworth has the right of it in saying he messed up his lines and put himself at the heart of it rather than Olding but the differences in the accounts are striking.

[sid waddell]

Hard to give credibility to anyone's testimony other than  Dara Florence and in those circumstances the jury has to acquit.

On what basis? She swears she saw Jackson having sex with her, he says he didn't. If her evidence is credible, then he's lying.

This is it for me.

The claimant maitains that Jackson had rough non consensual vaginal sex with her.
Her story is corroberated (with the obvious exception of consent but this is not contradicted either) by the medical evidence, Dara Florence and the men's own text exchanges.
Jackson's defence is that he didn't have vaginal sex with her and in any case there was no roughness. His evidence has been contradicted by Dara Florence and his own text exchanges and not helped by the other defendants.

If he'd claimed consensual vaginal sex then maybe there'd be some doubt but he doesnt, he's done.

The "rough" wasn't corroborated. A small cut most likely caused by a fingernail. Only bruise of any significance was on the elbow and she didnt know how that arose.

The 2nd doctor disagreed with 1st doctor and said the amount of blood couldnt have come from such a cut and is likely menstrual and said 1st doctor's examination was lacking. So still doubt on that.

Was there evidence to that effect?

Note "most likely"

The 2nd doctor said very unlikely to have been caused by manhood, given no bruising elsewhere. Also shape of nail versus shape of anything else. A ring on a finger would be 2nd most likely I'd guess. There's no doubt he used his fingers.

I'd guess he tried to have a go with the lad but couldn't keep er lit with all the drink. Otherwise he wouldnt have stopped and there'd be fluid evidence.

Sounds like McIlroy heard a version of what happened to Olding and in his haze of drink imagined it happened to himself! A complete BS artist is my guess!

The second doctor never examined the complainant.

Dr. Lavery described the cut as "a full laceration tear".

Now I don't have a vagina, but I can certainly see how blood could still be coming from a wound described as "a full laceration tear" after 14 hours.

[Main Street]

You'd have to wonder about the competence of the defence team allowing McIlroy take the stand. I understand Jackson (had to explain his version of the Dara Florence interruption), neutral re Olding, but nothing to be gained and only something to be lost by letting the other 2 talk. McIlroy, in particular because he's a headcase (and maybe an imbecile), and Harrison because he was genuinely worried something untoward had happened even though he hadnt witnessed it first hand.

Unsure re whether Harrison will take the stand, but McIlroy as a defence witness has not helped the defence one iota, and could very well have damaged it

I'd say at this stage McIlroy's QC has said "It's every man for himself here, you've got to concentrate on your case not theirs.  Every chance they'll get off and you'll be convicted"

If I were Harrison I'd probably risk taking the stand.  He wasn't involved in the alleged sexual assault, the girl has no complaints about his behaviour (quite the opposite) and he could portray himself as an decent, ordinary guy caught up in an extraordinary situation and panicked a bit, deleted some texts etc which I now regret etc etc

From what I could gather the case against Harrison is weak but I thought possibly he was charged because the statement he made to the police could then be introduced in court and effect some damage to the other 3.

[Owen Brannigan]

He is included to boost the contention that the group conspired to make up their agreedversion when they met afterwards. Shown by no similar charge for McIlroy even though he also deleted evidence.

[Syferus]

He is included to boost the contention that the group conspired to make up their agreedversion when they met afterwards. Shown by no similar charge for McIlroy even though he also deleted evidence.

Harrison tried to run interference after the deed and keep a lid on the girl. Making out there's massive equivalence between what he and McIlroy did is a serious misreading. McIlroy comes across as a total header, Harrison much more calculated in his actions.

[trileacman]

Harrison is about the only defendant you'd pity. Comforts the poor girl and looks after her and then gets charged for arranging the worst cover up in ni criminal history. His name and face is tied to this shit show and all the gory details despite being innocent of any sexual harassment or rape. He's also not the author of any of the messsages that belittled the defendant or bragging about his sexual exploits.

If he'd have turned his back to her as left the house in tears it would've rewarded him a thousand times over. He's probably a decent fella who seen a young woman needing help and comfort and it's that act of decency that dragged him into this sordid mess. It's incredible how small actions can have such extraordinary repercussions.

[Syferus]

Harrison is about the only defendant you'd pity. Comforts the poor girl and looks after her and then gets charged for arranging the worst cover up in ni criminal history. His name and face is tied to this shit show and all the gory details despite being innocent of any sexual harassment or rape. He's also not the author of any of the messsages that belittled the defendant or bragging about his sexual exploits.

If he'd have turned his back to her as left the house in tears it would've rewarded him a thousand times over. He's probably a decent fella who seen a young woman needing help and comfort and it's that act of decency that dragged him into this sordid mess. It's incredible how small actions can have such extraordinary repercussions.

It would take you to feel sorry for the most obviously guilty of the lot.

[trileacman]

Harrison is about the only defendant you'd pity. Comforts the poor girl and looks after her and then gets charged for arranging the worst cover up in ni criminal history. His name and face is tied to this shit show and all the gory details despite being innocent of any sexual harassment or rape. He's also not the author of any of the messsages that belittled the defendant or bragging about his sexual exploits.

If he'd have turned his back to her as left the house in tears it would've rewarded him a thousand times over. He's probably a decent fella who seen a young woman needing help and comfort and it's that act of decency that dragged him into this sordid mess. It's incredible how small actions can have such extraordinary repercussions.

It would take you to feel sorry for the most obviously guilt of the lot.

You should just reply "HANG THEM WITHOUT TRIAL!!!" after every quote.

It would save a lot of typing and better encapsulate your opinion on the matter.

[trileacman]

https://www.joe.ie/amp/life-style/anatomy-of-a-night-out-read-the-whatsapp-and-text-messages-sent-by-jackson-olding-mciiroy-harrison-and-others-as-heard-by-the-jury-618032?__twitter_impression=true

Excellent stuff from joe.ie.

Reading the flow of messages I'm even more convinced they didn't rape her.

I'd believe so too. Some strange behaviour on her part. "Lol", "got raped, brilliant night". Whilst you can make an argument in favour of her non-resistance as a manifestation of the horror she was enduring, I'm just not sure how you can present sarcasm as a typical response to a rape event.

I'm not going to even bother to try to unpack that absolute garbage of a post.

Playing the man not the ball, typical petty diversion tactics there syf.

I'd say you're unable to counter that piece of evidence without reaching for the ould "physcological effect of rape" argument. Give it a go there, your so convinced of their guilt you should be able to reason up some excuse.

Still waiting on an answer there Scalia.

[general_lee]

Can we all just stop responding to Syferus, he has ruined this thread but putting him on ignore is half the battle. I have used the ignore function but unfortunately anything quoted still shows up. We might get some more reasoned debate and less of the Helen lovejoy melodramatics

[Milltown Row2]

Can we all just stop responding to Syferus, he has ruined this thread but putting him on ignore is half the battle. I have used the ignore function but unfortunately anything quoted still shows up. We might get some more reasoned debate and less of the Helen lovejoy melodramatics

Once he puts up his legal qualifications I'll ignore

[Asal Mor]

Harrison is about the only defendant you'd pity. Comforts the poor girl and looks after her and then gets charged for arranging the worst cover up in ni criminal history. His name and face is tied to this shit show and all the gory details despite being innocent of any sexual harassment or rape. He's also not the author of any of the messsages that belittled the defendant or bragging about his sexual exploits.

If he'd have turned his back to her as left the house in tears it would've rewarded him a thousand times over. He's probably a decent fella who seen a young woman needing help and comfort and it's that act of decency that dragged him into this sordid mess. It's incredible how small actions can have such extraordinary repercussions.

+1. I think he was trying his best in a very bad situation. I hope he gets cleared.

[seafoid]

Harrison is about the only defendant you'd pity. Comforts the poor girl and looks after her and then gets charged for arranging the worst cover up in ni criminal history. His name and face is tied to this shit show and all the gory details despite being innocent of any sexual harassment or rape. He's also not the author of any of the messsages that belittled the defendant or bragging about his sexual exploits.

If he'd have turned his back to her as left the house in tears it would've rewarded him a thousand times over. He's probably a decent fella who seen a young woman needing help and comfort and it's that act of decency that dragged him into this sordid mess. It's incredible how small actions can have such extraordinary repercussions.

+1. I think he was trying his best in a very bad situation. I hope he gets cleared.

Me too.

[Ty4Sam]

Harrison is about the only defendant you'd pity. Comforts the poor girl and looks after her and then gets charged for arranging the worst cover up in ni criminal history. His name and face is tied to this shit show and all the gory details despite being innocent of any sexual harassment or rape. He's also not the author of any of the messsages that belittled the defendant or bragging about his sexual exploits.

If he'd have turned his back to her as left the house in tears it would've rewarded him a thousand times over. He's probably a decent fella who seen a young woman needing help and comfort and it's that act of decency that dragged him into this sordid mess. It's incredible how small actions can have such extraordinary repercussions.

+1. I think he was trying his best in a very bad situation. I hope he gets cleared.

Me too.

I've a feeling the prosecution barrister is going to give him a tough time this morning.