The ulster rugby trial

[Milltown Row2]

Reporter on Newstalk this morning felt there was a good chance they would take the stand.

Difficult to say from where we are.  Obviously the legal teams will have a good feel about how the case is playing out inside the court.  There are arguments in favour of giving evidence or not but not taking the stand seems to be the high risk/high reward one

They can call other witnesses too. I'd imagine at that stage they'll try to read where they are and if they think they are winning, they won't go up.

I read over the weekend that they can call character witnesses at this stage?  Cue Rory Best??

I can't see too many character witnesses wanting to be going in with the top shaggers to be honest! split roasting and all the rest wont sit well with most people

[Asal Mor]

Reporter on Newstalk this morning felt there was a good chance they would take the stand.

Difficult to say from where we are.  Obviously the legal teams will have a good feel about how the case is playing out inside the court.  There are arguments in favour of giving evidence or not but not taking the stand seems to be the high risk/high reward one

They can call other witnesses too. I'd imagine at that stage they'll try to read where they are and if they think they are winning, they won't go up.

I read over the weekend that they can call character witnesses at this stage?  Cue Rory Best??

I can't see too many character witnesses wanting to be going in with the top shaggers to be honest! split roasting and all the rest wont sit well with most people

In the #metoo era it would be an act of social suicide. A pointless exercise anyway. The messages show they have zero respect for their conquests, but that doesn't make them rapists.

[AQMP]

The lads have been consistent in their assertion that they didn't. It's the inconsistencies/lies in the detailsthat are important.

The "lads" haven't told the jury anything.

They are denying the charges though.

If they do take the stand, I'd doubt you'll be giving them credit for being consistent in their denial.

If they do give evidence I'll wait and see what the accused say.  Probably

[LeoMc]

Reporter on Newstalk this morning felt there was a good chance they would take the stand.

Difficult to say from where we are.  Obviously the legal teams will have a good feel about how the case is playing out inside the court.  There are arguments in favour of giving evidence or not but not taking the stand seems to be the high risk/high reward option.

High risk and I do not see any upside to it. Unless they are able to provide a very credible argument that they reasonably believed consent was given they are on a hiding to nothing.

[magpie seanie]

I think their best chance is to not take the stand. I'd be amazed if they did. Harrison might if he thinks he's goosed.

[brokencrossbar1]

I honestly believe that Jackson and Olding would be really foolish to take the stand. Once up there they leave themselves wide open to be caught out in cross examination. Also they would be crucified for their 'lad' behaviour and will come across as even bigger scumbags than they already are. It's one thing to type 'top shagger' but to be made say it....and the Prosecution would have them repeating those types of statements. Your decision making process is influenced mostly by what you hear.

People say how she has been consistent but it's easy for one person to have a straight story. All the defendants may have differing versions of the same set of facts but can all be telling the truth.  Her reaction the next day is unusual. Their reaction the next day is similar to that of many shit heads. I simply think that to get this above reasonable doubt there needs to be stronger independent evidence and that is not there in my opinion.

[Asal Mor]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

[Milltown Row2]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

If he takes the stand then he'll be hammered, plus it will hamper the others surely?

[Syferus]

I honestly believe that Jackson and Olding would be really foolish to take the stand. Once up there they leave themselves wide open to be caught out in cross examination. Also they would be crucified for their 'lad' behaviour and will come across as even bigger scumbags than they already are. It's one thing to type 'top shagger' but to be made say it....and the Prosecution would have them repeating those types of statements. Your decision making process is influenced mostly by what you hear.

People say how she has been consistent but it's easy for one person to have a straight story. All the defendants may have differing versions of the same set of facts but can all be telling the truth.  Her reaction the next day is unusual. Their reaction the next day is similar to that of many shit heads. I simply think that to get this above reasonable doubt there needs to be stronger independent evidence and that is not there in my opinion.

Conversely any good prosecution team can use them not taking the stand to savage them in the closing arguments. The reason they're in a no-win situation is because they're very likely guilty of a crime.

Asal Mor's open contempt for movements like MeToo that has exposed systematic levels of sexual assault in western society really highlight what sort of person he is.

[AQMP]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

See we can agree AM!  I said last week that to my untrained mind and having heard about 2% of the evidence the case against Harrison seems the strongest.  Perverting the course of justice and withholding info can carry a custodial sentence.  Given he wasn't directly involved in the alleged incidents and that the alleged victim had no complaints about his behaviour, he might be giving it serious thought if he's looking at a spell in Maghaberry?

[AQMP]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

If he takes the stand then he'll be hammered, plus it will hamper the others surely?

If I were Harrison I wouldn't be too concerned about the others.  I'll bet the other three don't give a feck about him.

[johnnycool]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

See we can agree AM!  I said last week that to my untrained mind and having heard about 2% of the evidence the case against Harrison seems the strongest.  Perverting the course of justice and withholding info can carry a custodial sentence.  Given he wasn't directly involved in the alleged incidents and that the alleged victim had no complaints about his behaviour, he might be giving it serious thought if he's looking at a spell in Maghaberry?

Is he the one responsible for deleting texts and whatsapp messages?

If he is, then surely the other users would need to have done the same, no?

[brokencrossbar1]

I honestly believe that Jackson and Olding would be really foolish to take the stand. Once up there they leave themselves wide open to be caught out in cross examination. Also they would be crucified for their 'lad' behaviour and will come across as even bigger scumbags than they already are. It's one thing to type 'top shagger' but to be made say it....and the Prosecution would have them repeating those types of statements. Your decision making process is influenced mostly by what you hear.

People say how she has been consistent but it's easy for one person to have a straight story. All the defendants may have differing versions of the same set of facts but can all be telling the truth.  Her reaction the next day is unusual. Their reaction the next day is similar to that of many shit heads. I simply think that to get this above reasonable doubt there needs to be stronger independent evidence and that is not there in my opinion.

Conversely any good prosecution team can use them not taking the stand to savage them in the closing arguments. The reason they're in a no-win situation is because they're very likely guilty of a crime.

I don't agree. As it stands they have given a version of events in their interviews. This can be dissected but they deny rape and that's all they have to do. The only adverse inferences that can be drawn is if they made no comment whatsoever. They have given their side of the story

[Syferus]

I honestly believe that Jackson and Olding would be really foolish to take the stand. Once up there they leave themselves wide open to be caught out in cross examination. Also they would be crucified for their 'lad' behaviour and will come across as even bigger scumbags than they already are. It's one thing to type 'top shagger' but to be made say it....and the Prosecution would have them repeating those types of statements. Your decision making process is influenced mostly by what you hear.

People say how she has been consistent but it's easy for one person to have a straight story. All the defendants may have differing versions of the same set of facts but can all be telling the truth.  Her reaction the next day is unusual. Their reaction the next day is similar to that of many shit heads. I simply think that to get this above reasonable doubt there needs to be stronger independent evidence and that is not there in my opinion.

Conversely any good prosecution team can use them not taking the stand to savage them in the closing arguments. The reason they're in a no-win situation is because they're very likely guilty of a crime.

I don't agree. As it stands they have given a version of events in their interviews. This can be dissected but they deny rape and that's all they have to do. The only adverse inferences that can be drawn is if they made no comment whatsoever. They have given their side of the story

..in the most obviously managed way possible. And even then they were massively inconsistent from interview to interview. Not a good look whatever angle you take on the "lads".

[AQMP]

Excellent post bcb and the Jackson and Olding defence teams would have to be confident that they've done enough to have at least raised a reasonable doubt.

I think Mcillroy will be found guilty of exposure.

Uncharacteristically good point from Seanie that Harrison might be the only one who would benefit from taking the stand, but I'd be interested to hear bcb's or David's views on that.

See we can agree AM!  I said last week that to my untrained mind and having heard about 2% of the evidence the case against Harrison seems the strongest.  Perverting the course of justice and withholding info can carry a custodial sentence.  Given he wasn't directly involved in the alleged incidents and that the alleged victim had no complaints about his behaviour, he might be giving it serious thought if he's looking at a spell in Maghaberry?

Is he the one responsible for deleting texts and whatsapp messages?

If he is, then surely the other users would need to have done the same, no?

Maybe, but they're not charged with perverting the course of justice, only Harrison (I think)