Antrim Football Thread

Started by theskull1, November 09, 2006, 11:48:40 PM

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Rodger Mona

ITG, we are getting side tracked here. My comments were based on Bannsides post which he directed my way. You are coming at me with assumptions so please stick to what im saying and take it literally instead of interpreting my words to suit your agenda. I do rate an awful lot of the current antrim players, WITHIN the antrim club scene. Though because the other clubs outside of LD, Galls and Cargin havnt won a thing i fear for the over all mindset within the panel v other counties. Which is why i keep talking about the winning mentality, alot of our boys dont know how to win when it comes to the crunch

Moneyglass players you talk about, id like you to name the ones who stood out when it mattered. in the final against aldegrove the only men i seen that stood up was Dermot McEerlaine and their CHB. Both of which arent county players. Fyfe wasnt good v Moneyglass in the semi's but i wont dwell on him as he is very young

BS when you say them guys had a good year. What is a good year in your interpretation? Because from Lenny has came in, Antrim havent had a good year... so all this nonsense about his approach, trying things with men throughout all clubs, in all divisions in antrim is all mumbo jumbo. Now what looks like to be his last year, what has he went and done.....back to default..... Called in the guys who have cship pedigree. T.McCann and Cunningham, who are well in their 30's. So he obviously feels the need to call on men who have won something.  Im sure if he had of got a few more of the lads he had called upon he would of soon forgot about some of the current guys he has been working with. Also worth mentioning M.Fitzpatrick won a sigerson with St.Marys 2017, following year 2018,  id of said he was best club player in antrim. Really kicked him on

Someone put up a good argument against what im saying or atleast offer an alternative point of view instead of trying to twist my words. Im just saying what i think would be best for Antrim football at the moment, and having a panel of kids, from clubs who havent won anything or been to a final isnt going to cut it against the good counties in and around Div 3 if thats what we are aiming to get to and build from there

And obviously im not alone as Tally has called upon more Kilcoo involvement, McGeaney has 6 Cross men, Derry have 5 S'neil men, D'gonnely have 5 on fermanagh panel...

imtommygunn

What are you saying?

We need players with a winning mentality? We can't get those in antrim outside of winning club teams because we're antrim?

Rodger Mona

Im saying, until other clubs step up and start winning things, which will make the club championship more competitive, and antrim step up their development across the board then we will be drifting in and out if div 3/4. And we wont have alot to pick from. So at the minute i think the current squad, if everyone made themselve available should have a nucleus of the top 3 teams best players supplemented by the rest to be competitive.

Trying to bring so many players through at the one time, who are naive and learning their trade and who had no on the field leaders,  was always going to be a disaster for Lenny. but i can see why he kept it going. It was a good cushion to fall back on when fingers were pointing at him with the results and performances. Bannside and the likes are always the optimistic kind who are always building for the future whether it be with his own club or county. But 10 /20 years down the line and youve damn all to show for it, you need a change of course.




bannside

But theres hundreds of examples across the country that say you're wrong to exclude players from lower divisions, or from clubs that have never won anything. Ask anyone a few years older than yourself who was the best midfielder they ever saw and theres a good chance they will say Tony Mc Atamney. Played MF for Ulster too for half a dozen years when the Railway cup was massive. He was from a division three club. Should he not have been asked to play for Antrim because he was from a small parish or played with people who just werent as technically gifted or as athletically perfect as he was?


I do understand the point you are trying to make RM but it's too idyllic. In the GAA you play (or should) play for the parish you were born in and anything else is elitist and against the moral fabric that binds the association. A good player can come from any parish or club.

bannside

Just for the record...eternally optimistic Bannside came from a club (All Saints) who started in Div 5 without a pitch and finished up inside 10 years going to Div 1 with excellent playing facilities. That took a bit more than optimism.

Eternally optimistic Bannside moved and started family in Portglenone. Div 3 team with moderate facilities. Now well established in Div 1 on a continued upward curve I confidently predict, with superb facilities that will be even better in a few years. I'm not saying I did anything special to create this, it takes a lot of people to create something like this.

During that time I've seen county boards that were poor average and just plain bad. What we have now is a massive step up on that, with Saffron Business Forum, Gaelfast, and most clubs starting to get their act together in terms of proper juvenile focus and promotion of the game. 

I am 100% optimistic that Antrim are turning a big corner and if it takes 10 years that's ok. When clubs and schools clubs lock in, and produce more and more quality players the rest will look after itself. Why the need for such negativity? Get involved with the youth and go out and produce a couple of special players.

imtommygunn

Quote from: Rodger Mona on December 09, 2019, 04:56:59 PM
Im saying, until other clubs step up and start winning things, which will make the club championship more competitive, and antrim step up their development across the board then we will be drifting in and out if div 3/4. And we wont have alot to pick from. So at the minute i think the current squad, if everyone made themselve available should have a nucleus of the top 3 teams best players supplemented by the rest to be competitive.

Trying to bring so many players through at the one time, who are naive and learning their trade and who had no on the field leaders,  was always going to be a disaster for Lenny. but i can see why he kept it going. It was a good cushion to fall back on when fingers were pointing at him with the results and performances. Bannside and the likes are always the optimistic kind who are always building for the future whether it be with his own club or county. But 10 /20 years down the line and youve damn all to show for it, you need a change of course.

You do somewhere in there have a point - we want experienced leaders to bring youth through. We probably don't have the ones we'd want available though. While that is the case youth has to be picked.

There's nothing to say that can't work out though despite what you say.

Sportacus

Quote from: bannside on December 09, 2019, 05:16:52 PM
Just for the record...eternally optimistic Bannside came from a club (All Saints) who started in Div 5 without a pitch and finished up inside 10 years going to Div 1 with excellent playing facilities. That took a bit more than optimism.

Eternally optimistic Bannside moved and started family in Portglenone. Div 3 team with moderate facilities. Now well established in Div 1 on a continued upward curve I confidently predict, with superb facilities that will be even better in a few years. I'm not saying I did anything special to create this, it takes a lot of people to create something like this.

During that time I've seen county boards that were poor average and just plain bad. What we have now is a massive step up on that, with Saffron Business Forum, Gaelfast, and most clubs starting to get their act together in terms of proper juvenile focus and promotion of the game. 

I am 100% optimistic that Antrim are turning a big corner and if it takes 10 years that's ok. When clubs and schools clubs lock in, and produce more and more quality players the rest will look after itself. Why the need for such negativity? Get involved with the youth and go out and produce a couple of special players.
Yes hopefully turning a corner, but I've said on here before, I've been following SW underage and I've noticed really strong U10/U12 teams in certain clubs not develop one iota as teenagers, which can only mean lack of coaching or lack of interest from the players/families. 

bannside

I personally think the penny has really only started to drop with certain clubs about the proper development of their juveniles. This should be a clubs main asset, every bit as important as it seniors.

We hope to get to a stage where all clubs are doing more (some much more) schools are doing a lot better and county development squads are upping their game across the board. That's 3 target areas that are all "work in progress" but if you have talent at all it should be noted and developed to a much higher level than say for example ten years ago when these three vital areas were underperforming.

Of course theres a lot more to do...

Na Glinntí Glasa

Quote from: bannside on December 09, 2019, 03:59:15 PM
Definitely DR and those players are known to football management. I know you've got your finger on the pulse there and you are aware of a couple of approaches that were not taken up for the reason you speak of. It's time Dunloy threw up another Speedy Mc Allister who put football first lol. Frank Fitz senior told me once that when he managed Antrim in the eighties he wrote Speedys name at 11 and built a team around him!

some player in his day and an even bigger character lol
hurl like f**k boi!

Rodger Mona

Quote from: bannside on December 09, 2019, 04:59:23 PM
But theres hundreds of examples across the country that say you're wrong to exclude players from lower divisions, or from clubs that have never won anything. Ask anyone a few years older than yourself who was the best midfielder they ever saw and theres a good chance they will say Tony Mc Atamney. Played MF for Ulster too for half a dozen years when the Railway cup was massive. He was from a division three club. Should he not have been asked to play for Antrim because he was from a small parish or played with people who just werent as technically gifted or as athletically perfect as he was?


I do understand the point you are trying to make RM but it's too idyllic. In the GAA you play (or should) play for the parish you were born in and anything else is elitist and against the moral fabric that binds the association. A good player can come from any parish or club.

BS you have a serious habit in going off topic and writing in a tangent. Where did u see a comment from myself which said to exclude players from lower divisions?  You havent. And what makes you think i dont know who Tony McAtamney was?

For some reason you and others in this group try and write a spree of stuff and arguing against things that havent been mentioned.... Iv never said anyone who is good enough from a lower club or unsuccessful clubs SHOULDNT get selected for Antrim so you must of dreamt that. From day dot all i have said was, as a template to progress, you find that other counties have a core of players from clubs which have had recent success within the county. Examples i gave were down, armagh, fermanagh, laois and derry.

I even gave examples of the number of players from clubs within each squad, and shared a link in which Tally called upon more kilcoo involvement even though he already had 4 on the panel from the year before

So you cant tell me im wrong, because what you have been rooting for and what Lenny has tried, backing youth and bringing in players who have never even played at a good club level, HAS FAILED!

So again, Lenny obviously recognises that, so has decided to call upon T.McCann and P.Cunningham who have what in common? And thats not including the players he has contacted that has refused to play.



imtommygunn

Let me summarise...

We need our best players playing?

Paddy Tally wants his best players playing - most of those happen to be from Kilcoo. This is not a shocker. It doesn't discount the likes of Harrison and boys like taht from lower clubs.

The clubs that win generally, generally, have better players with exceptions.

Rodger Mona

ITG, how do you think Lenny has done to date and whats your opinion on his approach.

And on your summary was i wrong to suggest the best players in antrim are predominantly within the top 3/4 teams in the county?

imtommygunn

You are basically stating the obvious here. Better teams GENERALLY have better players which is why they win. Other teams can have good players too but they will have less of them.

To be honest I think he has done as well as he has been allowed. If he could have had the best guys available he would have had the best guys available. It is more than just him that is meaning that some of these guys won't commit. Age demographics also a factor here too.

In any county you would expect 6 or 7 from your champions. In terms of the best from Cargin you would have Crozier, OBoyle, Laverty,two McCanns minimum and one or two others however this hasn't happened. Lenny can't make them play.

Rodger Mona

#17773
It wasnt that obvious when yourself BS and others were trying to justify Lenny having a squad of predominantly young and average players.

Lenny could of had P.Cunningham, Tomas, Crozier, some of the galls and LD men when he started but he chose not to.

The fact that you are happy enough with Lennys and the teams performances as last 3 years just shows you the mentality around the county, happy to be there. So again back to what iv said, no WINNING mentality. And wont have that until we see all this good work BS stated clubs are doing throughout the county come to fruition, (if theres many clubs really putting the work in) and hopefully in the 10 years that he talks about there will be 6/7 teams challenging for county titles. Then we could see something different.

But i wont hold my breathe


belfastsaff

best two teams in the county are cargin and ld. 6/7 players from the remaining good enough to make up rest of 15 plain and simple.