Death of Brian Keenan

[Zapatista]

"Revolutionaries have to be pragmatic – wish lists are for Christmas."

[orangeman]

"Revolutionaries have to be pragmatic – wish lists are for Christmas."

Why was this maxim not employed years ago ? It would have saved a lot of grief. Obviously his vision of / for the future came after the realisation that the war couldn't have been won militarily ??

[Zapatista]

"Revolutionaries have to be pragmatic – wish lists are for Christmas."

Why was this maxim not employed years ago ? It would have saved a lot of grief. Obviously his vision of / for the future came after the realisation that the war couldn't have been won militarily ??

It was employed years ago. I'd say nearly 20 years ago now.

You know better than that OM. If you think we are on the same playing field now as we where in the late 60s and 70s when we had a "Prodestant State for a Prodestant people" I am never going to win a discussion with you. If you can look at the political situation then and compare it to now and see the remarkable difference I see we can discuss this futher.

"Peace is not merely the absence of war but the presence of Justice."  I can't remember who said that.

[orangeman]

"Revolutionaries have to be pragmatic – wish lists are for Christmas."

Why was this maxim not employed years ago ? It would have saved a lot of grief. Obviously his vision of / for the future came after the realisation that the war couldn't have been won militarily ??

It was employed years ago. I'd say nearly 20 years ago now.

You know better than that OM. If you think we are on the same playing field now as we where in the late 60s and 70s when we had a "Prodestant State for a Prodestant people" I am never going to win a discussion with you. If you can look at the political situation then and compare it to now and see the remarkable difference I see we can discuss this futher.

"Peace is not merely the absence of war but the presence of Justice."  I can't remember who said that.

So it was a fight for justice all along and nothing else ?

[Zapatista]

I am convinced for Brian Keenan it was.

[orangeman]

I am convinced for Brian Keenan it was.

Do you think that the call for Irish freedom that went out to the mass Irish nationalist population, propgated by the Provos and others was really only to seek justice for the Nationalist catholic population of the 6 counties ? Do you really think that in order to achieve justice that it requried 30+ years of pain to be inflicted upon the Nationalist Irish, the Unionist Irish and the British ?

[Evil Genius]

I am convinced for Brian Keenan it was.

Do you really think that in order to achieve justice that it requried 30+ years of pain to be inflicted upon the Nationalist Irish, the Unionist Irish and the British ?

The "Sixty Four Dollar Question".

[thebandit]

I am convinced for Brian Keenan it was.

Do you think that the call for Irish freedom that went out to the mass Irish nationalist population, propgated by the Provos and others was really only to seek justice for the Nationalist catholic population of the 6 counties ? Do you really think that in order to achieve justice that it requried 30+ years of pain to be inflicted upon the Nationalist Irish, the Unionist Irish and the British ?

Its a fair point.... If we're honest every side is as bad as each other

[Zapatista]

I am convinced for Brian Keenan it was.

Do you think that the call for Irish freedom that went out to the mass Irish nationalist population, propgated by the Provos and others was really only to seek justice for the Nationalist catholic population of the 6 counties ? Do you really think that in order to achieve justice that it requried 30+ years of pain to be inflicted upon the Nationalist Irish, the Unionist Irish and the British ?

I think this thread should be about the death of Brian Keenan. I will give you my answers by PM or on another thread if you wish to start one on any of the questions you have.

[Evil Genius]

I think this thread should be about the death of Brian Keenan. 

I see, a thread where certain posters are allowed to describe him as "A true gentleman", "a quiet hero", "a man of peace" or a "visionary" etc, and others aren't allowed to question them? 

[Zapatista]

No Evil Genius OM was questioning me and a quote I inserted which did not belong to Brian Keenan. OM can describe him how he likes but he is trying to question me on my politlics and not that of Brian Keenan. This is fair enough and I will answer the questions but I am entilted to try to keep the thread on topic.

Do you think that the call for Irish freedom that went out to the mass Irish nationalist population, propgated by the Provos and others was really only to seek justice for the Nationalist catholic population of the 6 counties ? Do you really think that in order to achieve justice that it requried 30+ years of pain to be inflicted upon the Nationalist Irish, the Unionist Irish and the British ?

[Evil Genius]

No Evil Genius OM was questioning me and a quote I inserted which did not belong to Brian Keenan. OM can describe him how he likes but he is trying to question me on my politlics and not that of Brian Keenan. This is fair enough and I will answer the questions but I am entilted to try to keep the thread on topic.

Do you think that the call for Irish freedom that went out to the mass Irish nationalist population, propgated by the Provos and others was really only to seek justice for the Nationalist catholic population of the 6 counties ? Do you really think that in order to achieve justice that it requried 30+ years of pain to be inflicted upon the Nationalist Irish, the Unionist Irish and the British ?

OK, then, assuming that Keenan felt that the GFA was eventually a "just" settlement - he endorsed it after all -  may we assume that he also believed that it was worth the "30+ years of pain...   ...inflicted upon the Nationalist Irish, the Unionist Irish and the British" by the Provisional movement which he led?

[magickingdom]

i see in todays times it was an incident in 1960something when big ian led a march demanding a tricolour hanging in w belfast be taken down was what first got brian keenan intereested in politics. bet ian wishes he forgot about that tricolour

[Main Street]

That Flag stunt thing had Paisley a made man as top bigot, so he has nothing to regret over that.

http://typhooshaunt.blogspot.com/2008/03/paisley-and-tricolour-riots-of-1964.html

September 27 1964 when the Free Presbyterian cleric issued an 'SOS to all Ulster Protestants' to meet in the Ulster Hall.He told the rally: "If that flag is not removed tomorrow I will organise a march and remove it myself."The effect of Paisley's threat was instantaneous

Within hours a party of 50 RUC members under District Inspector Frank Lagan broke down the door of the Sinn Fein office and seized the flag. Meanwhile, a crowd of several thousand gathered in Divis Street to await Paisley and clashed with police.The next night saw fierce rioting in the district in which buses were set alight and the RUC made several baton charges. A fresh tricolour appeared in the republican HQ on October 1 and this time the RUC broke into the prem-ises with pick axes to remove it.That night Belfast had its worst riots since 1935.

[Pangurban]

There is a tendency among contributors to this discussion to equate Republicanism in Ireland with Socialism. I have raised this point before and would now like to re-state the question, how valid is this equation. Many of the original founders of Sinn-Fein such as Arthur Griffiths, Kevin O Higgins, Bulmer Hobson and the O Rahilly could hardly be described as socialists. Indeed in Ecomic and Social outlook many of todays republicans would be more akin to FF than any socialist party. No Socialist Party has ever flourished in any part of Ireland, including the major connurbations. Are we then to conclude that the majority of our population are not republican. Are Brian Cowan or Enda Kenny not republican. A serious debate requires a serious definition of what constitutes repulicanism. Over to you