Live Earth

[DrinkingHarp]

Has anyone seen any of the concerts?

All I see are the news clips here in the states, cant find it on the TV. Seems more people would listen to the message if it was actually televised. Although as one reporter stated "global concerts are past their prime".

[lurganblue]

i've watched a fair amount of it over here in Canada. its on a few channels over here. the london gig looked good. havent been to impressed by the new york one. there doesnt seem to be an atmosphere but i suppose its early yet.

[Tony Baloney]

A lot of it has been atrocious - doesn't seem to be all that many at the NYC gig and it was pishing out of the heavens in Hamburg. Watching highlights of T in the Park on BBC Three now and it blows Live Earth outta the water!

[Tony Baloney]

Like Live Eight every tr**p on stage is there for their own benefit. But I'm sure they'll offset the carbon for hundreds of artistes flying in from around world on jets and using all the electricity to run the gigs 

The fact that China is building 2 coal fired power stations every week kind of negates their dopey concert! Waste of everyones time and money.

[J70]

Who thought this one up?
A rock concert, using lots of energy telling us to save electricity, recycle etc. 
FFS if America and China would get with the programme the World wouldnt be in such a fuckin state.

Apparently everything they're using is recycleable and renewable. I think Gore is to be commended for his efforts.

And I doubt if Ireland ranks high among green nations when it comes to per capita energy consumption.

[Dinny Breen]

And I doubt if Ireland ranks high among green nations when it comes to per capita energy consumption.

Honestly who cares, we have a population of 4 million, anything we do is negligible. As 5T says just get China and the US with the programme and we'll be fine. Pointless excercise.

[J70]

And I doubt if Ireland ranks high among green nations when it comes to per capita energy consumption.

Honestly who cares, we have a population of 4 million, anything we do is negligible. As 5T says just get China and the US with the programme and we'll be fine. Pointless excercise.

The point is that its very easy in a small, insignificant country to scream and point at the US and China, when our per capita consumption may be just as bad, or in the case of China, probably worse. Whether the pollution is coming from a small island off the coast of Europe, or a small state in the northeast of the US, it still has the same effect.

[Dinny Breen]

Whether the pollution is coming from a small island off the coast of Europe, or a small state in the northeast of the US, it still has the same effect.

So Ireland's population of 4 million contributes as much as China's 1 billion, interesting, didn't realise that, must look for my bike. So what are they going to do with all the money raised, build ice-bergs?

[J70]

Whether the pollution is coming from a small island off the coast of Europe, or a small state in the northeast of the US, it still has the same effect.

So Ireland's population of 4 million contributes as much as China's 1 billion, interesting, didn't realise that, must look for my bike. So what are they going to do with all the money raised, build ice-bergs?

Yes... that is what I said...

My point (AGAIN) is that whether the person doing the polluting lives in Ireland or the US makes f**k all difference. The landmasses of China and the US happen to be occupied by single large countries, Europe is occupied by dozens. So what? Pollution/conservation/consumption problems don't obey political borders. The average Irish person driving to work every day, running a whole host of appliances at home and heating their house has little reason to be smug when it comes to these issues. Neither does the Irish government, which has been penalized by the EU on a number of occasions over environmental/ecological issues.

As to the money raised, I've no idea what they're doing with it. I don't really care. The point is to educate people that even the little things done at the level of the individual can help.

[Dinny Breen]

J70, what seem to fail to understand is that China's CO2 omissions are increasing, so any effort made by an individual in Ireland is negligible until the Corporate World and 2/3 World nations start to reduce, China is currently building 2 coal powered stations a week, is Ireland doing that? Unlike you I don't believe an individual can make a difference when it comes to the environment, only government policy can make a difference and not the government of a small island of the coast of Europe but the governments of USA, China, Brazil, UK, France, Germany, Russia, Japan and India might...

[J70]

J70, what seem to fail to understand is that China's CO2 omissions are increasing, so any effort made by an individual in Ireland is negligible until the Corporate World and 2/3 World nations start to reduce, China is currently building 2 coal powered stations a week, is Ireland doing that? Unlike you I don't believe an individual can make a difference when it comes to the environment, only government policy can make a difference and not the government of a small island of the coast of Europe but the governments of USA, China, Brazil, UK, France, Germany, Russia, Japan and India might...

I'm well aware that China's emissions are increasing and that the governments of the larger countries are obviously much more influential than those of smaller nations. I wasn't disputing that. But the fact is that energy is consumed by individuals, whether directly in the form of powering their own home and appliances, or in the production of the products and services we all use. Policy is set by governments, chosen, at least in the west, by individuals. If the people of Ireland, or anywhere else, want a government that will address these issues in a serious way, they can elect them. If they truly care about lowering their carbon footprint or energy consumption or contribution to pollution, they can start by walking a bit more or buying energy-efficient appliances and lights or shopping in farmer's markets or the organic aisle at the supermarket. But the fact is that most people only care about their own immediate wants and needs, whether its health issues or some consumer goods like a new iPod or car. That is true whether you live in China, the US or Ireland (sure the likes of An Taisce and The Green Party are routinely ridiculed as tree-hugging extremists on this board and in Irish society in general).  Its much easier to let ourselves off with the weak excuse that because we're collectively a small country, we're not responsible, and to instead point the finger, as usual, at the US. And I'm not saying that the US is not guilty, but beyond the extra energy needed to address comfort levels influenced by the more extreme climate, I do not see where the average US citizen consumes more energy than the average Irish one.

[Over the Bar]

Guys, we live in a consumerist society and we all want the next gadget and at the cheapest price.  Therfore 90% of what we buy for the rest of our lives will be from China manufactured while producing massive amouts of carbon dioxide, all to feed our need/greed.   

I was speaking to a fella who lectures in geology at QUB.   He said that it didnt matter if every country signed up to Kyoto in the morning and we abolished fossil fuel consumption within 20 years, the polar ice cap is gone forever as is the climate that we grew up knowing.   

Nevertheless I will recycle as much as can and re-use plastic bags...........

[Dinny Breen]

J70, this is something that you're probably passionate about but I'm just an old cynic anyway

And I'm not saying that the US is not guilty, but beyond the extra energy needed to address comfort levels influenced by the more extreme climate, I do not see where the average US citizen consumes more energy than the average Irish one.

Well the stats below are from the Global Footprint Network and show that the ecological footprint of your average yank is considerable more than the average Paddy, measure in heactares.....

USA

Ireland

Cropland Footprint

0.98

0.70

Grazing land Footprint

0.46

0.33

Forest: timber, pulp and paper Footprint

1.21

0.45

Forest: fuelwood Footprint

0.03

0.00

Fishing ground Footprint

0.23

0.24

Carbon Footprint

5.66

3.12

Nuclear Footprint

0.56

0.00

Built-up land Footprint3

0.47

0.12

[J70]

Thanks for that Dinny. Some food for thought!

I would say though, that given the small size of Ireland and the relatively homogenous nature of its people, its not really surprising that ecological footprints are smaller. The US is a huge country, with numerous different types of landscapes, much more extreme climates and an extremely multicultural society which demands products from all over the world. I do not think its people are, in general, more wanton, careless consumers than the Irish or any others though. Many may live in more ecologically expensive places, but that is not the same thing. You just don't need things like air conditioning or irrigation in Ireland, and if you did, you can be sure that the Irish would be taking advantage of them, as any Irish who live in the US currently do.

Another point: people may sneer at Gore's crusade, but it is by following the advice he is giving regarding small things like controlling consumption and buying local produce that things like ecological footprints can be decreased.

[J70]

If Gore is so concerned about Climate Change then why doesnt he put his own house in order before preaching to the rest of the world

Why would he restrict himself to the US? Is a worldwide problem.