Dublin v Mayo 2020 All-Ireland final

[Angelo]

Bernard Brogan had a good interview with Malachay Clerkin in the Irish times at the weekend in relation to dublin funding

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/bernard-brogan-finances-didn-t-win-five-all-irelands-in-a-row-1.4439956

Decent enough article tbf. On this point he makes

So I get annoyed when I see people saying that these players are only able to win because of financial doping

Virtually nobody is saying that or at least not anybody with a bit of sense.

Dublin have plenty of natural advantages that can never be changed, funding is one that can be changed relatively easily if the will is there.

But the funding that the likes of Lar quotes figures from is nothing at all to do with funding the intercounty team.

The sponsorship money of course does and something can be done there. But not pooling all the sponsorship that each county gets. That would lead to mismanagement.
Instead you need to take the power away from all the county boards and sell it on a national level, something like the NFL maybe.

With due respect Hound, I can see massive problems with your proposal. Sponsors  give money or other forms of aid to specific counties for one reason only.
They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

It also means certain counties won't bother looking for sponsorship. Why kill yourself for a €25k deal you make €800 off when you get €25k from the Dubs

Ah the DUPlin unionists out again.

"It's our money"

[Franko]

Only an idea

And there could be many flaws - and it may have been mentioned before - I haven't read back

But what about a GAA controlled auction of the principal sponsorship opportunities on a 3/4/5 year cycle?

You want to appear on the Dublin jersey - that could cost you 500k - but you might get Cork at 300k... right down the scale until you get to Tyrone, which would obviously be gratis.

All monies into a central pot, to be doled out to the relevant CB's according to some formula which would be ratified at congress.

GAA control it so that nobody but the sponsor who has paid the dough is seen on official merchandise and any matchday kit- severe penalties for offenders

It would still leave the CB's in a position to negotiate other terms with different suppliers for food/supplements etc - but they'd get little to no camera time

And the AIG's of this world could still sponsor Dublin

But the money would surely be distributed more equitably

[Angelo]

Only an idea

And there could be many flaws - and it may have been mentioned before - I haven't read back

But what about a GAA controlled auction of the principal sponsorship opportunities on a 3/4/5 year cycle?

You want to appear on the Dublin jersey - that could cost you 500k - but you might get Cork at 300k... right down the scale until you get to Tyrone, which would obviously be gratis.

All monies into a central pot, to be doled out to the relevant CB's according to some formula which would be ratified at congress.

GAA control it so that nobody but the sponsor who has paid the dough is seen on official merchandise and any matchday kit- severe penalties for offenders

It would still leave the CB's in a position to negotiate other terms with different suppliers for food/supplements etc - but they'd get little to no camera time

And the AIG's of this world could still sponsor Dublin

But the money would surely be distributed more equitably

That seems like a reasonable proposal but I don't know if it will fly with Dublin who want everything rigged in their favour.

[Lar Naparka]

They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

Would they really care so long as they get their coverage i.e. Elverys still being on the Mayo jersey even if all of the sponsorship money wasn't going to Mayo? I don't think they would tbh

Maybe, but if the amount of monety Mayo gets from Elverys is reduced, do you think they'd give Elverys the same amount of coverage?

In what way would Mayo reduce the coverage? The idea is that from the company end, they'd get the exact same return for their money in terms of exposure but the money would be distributed differently.

Furthermore, do you think Elverys wouldn't mind if some of what was earmarked for a specific market ie Mayo wound up promoting , say, Antrim or Leitrim football?

They wouldn't get a choice in the matter - they pay the GAA for sponsorship (name on jersey plus whatever else is involved) and that's what they receive. How the GAA spend that money is up to the GAA

Finally, would Liam Moffat & Co. mind id they only get a percentage of what they had expected to et if, say, 50% ofd it was going to one of their competitors?

I guess they wouldn't but it's about redistributing the money in a fairer manner so that every county gets roughly the same. Mayo   may well end up being a net loser in the redistribution process

Fair enough, all of that seems reasonable.
But if, say, Mayo CB, has earmarked €500,00 for development work on the centre of excellence and they only get €250,000, would they be happy then?

[Lar Naparka]

Bernard Brogan had a good interview with Malachay Clerkin in the Irish times at the weekend in relation to dublin funding

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/bernard-brogan-finances-didn-t-win-five-all-irelands-in-a-row-1.4439956

Decent enough article tbf. On this point he makes

So I get annoyed when I see people saying that these players are only able to win because of financial doping

Virtually nobody is saying that or at least not anybody with a bit of sense.

Dublin have plenty of natural advantages that can never be changed, funding is one that can be changed relatively easily if the will is there.

But the funding that the likes of Lar quotes figures from is nothing at all to do with funding the intercounty team.

The sponsorship money of course does and something can be done there. But not pooling all the sponsorship that each county gets. That would lead to mismanagement.
Instead you need to take the power away from all the county boards and sell it on a national level, something like the NFL maybe.

With due respect Hound, I can see massive problems with your proposal. Sponsors  give money or other forms of aid to specific counties for one reason only.
They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

It also means certain counties won't bother looking for sponsorship. Why kill yourself for a €25k deal you make €800 off when you get €25k from the Dubs

+1
Dublin, and all other high profile counties, would shy away from this proposal.

[Angelo]

They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

Would they really care so long as they get their coverage i.e. Elverys still being on the Mayo jersey even if all of the sponsorship money wasn't going to Mayo? I don't think they would tbh

Maybe, but if the amount of monety Mayo gets from Elverys is reduced, do you think they'd give Elverys the same amount of coverage?

In what way would Mayo reduce the coverage? The idea is that from the company end, they'd get the exact same return for their money in terms of exposure but the money would be distributed differently.

Furthermore, do you think Elverys wouldn't mind if some of what was earmarked for a specific market ie Mayo wound up promoting , say, Antrim or Leitrim football?

They wouldn't get a choice in the matter - they pay the GAA for sponsorship (name on jersey plus whatever else is involved) and that's what they receive. How the GAA spend that money is up to the GAA

Finally, would Liam Moffat & Co. mind id they only get a percentage of what they had expected to et if, say, 50% ofd it was going to one of their competitors?

I guess they wouldn't but it's about redistributing the money in a fairer manner so that every county gets roughly the same. Mayo   may well end up being a net loser in the redistribution process

Fair enough, all of that seems reasonable.
But if, say, Mayo CB, has earmarked €500,00 for development work on the centre of excellence and they only get €250,000, would they be happy then?

You need to stop thinking of this through a Mayo lens and through a lens of what is important to the game as a whole. Sure Mayo might continue to get better and improve while other counties get left behind, but what use is it to Mayo if they only improve to a nth fraction of what Dublin continue to improve?

Mayo have done very well to transition with the changeover of so many big players in the last couple of seasons but the fact is the gap between them and Dublin has actually widened and will continue to.

[Dubhaltach]

Mayo had a man advantage for the first 10 minutes of the second half and instead of drawing level or going ahead, they fell a further 2 points behind.  Dublin we're and are just a better team

Mayo sat back for those 10 minutes rather than push on and take advantage of the extra man for that period. I assume this was based on Dublin blitzing them at the start of the 2nd half last year. That was when Mayo needed to push on though and take a few chances. They must have known thy would need to score goals to beat Dublin and that 10 min spell opened the door a little for them to have a go

Incorrect. Mayo were just going through a period of momentum before the foul on Keegan. They had just scored 2 points in a row and had the free been given, it would have been 3 in a row and an equaliser. Watch it back, McDaid only came back on after the foul on Keegan. The break in play while Keegan was down injured broke any momentum Mayo had, it was a big turning point in the game.

[macdanger2]

They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

Would they really care so long as they get their coverage i.e. Elverys still being on the Mayo jersey even if all of the sponsorship money wasn't going to Mayo? I don't think they would tbh

Maybe, but if the amount of monety Mayo gets from Elverys is reduced, do you think they'd give Elverys the same amount of coverage?

In what way would Mayo reduce the coverage? The idea is that from the company end, they'd get the exact same return for their money in terms of exposure but the money would be distributed differently.

Furthermore, do you think Elverys wouldn't mind if some of what was earmarked for a specific market ie Mayo wound up promoting , say, Antrim or Leitrim football?

They wouldn't get a choice in the matter - they pay the GAA for sponsorship (name on jersey plus whatever else is involved) and that's what they receive. How the GAA spend that money is up to the GAA

Finally, would Liam Moffat & Co. mind id they only get a percentage of what they had expected to et if, say, 50% ofd it was going to one of their competitors?

I guess they wouldn't but it's about redistributing the money in a fairer manner so that every county gets roughly the same. Mayo   may well end up being a net loser in the redistribution process

Fair enough, all of that seems reasonable.
But if, say, Mayo CB, has earmarked €500,00 for development work on the centre of excellence and they only get €250,000, would they be happy then?

I'm not sure. I guess you'd have to separate out current and capital spending in some way. There are loads of possible issues but none that should be unsolvable imo

[Lar Naparka]

They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

Would they really care so long as they get their coverage i.e. Elverys still being on the Mayo jersey even if all of the sponsorship money wasn't going to Mayo? I don't think they would tbh

Maybe, but if the amount of monety Mayo gets from Elverys is reduced, do you think they'd give Elverys the same amount of coverage?

In what way would Mayo reduce the coverage? The idea is that from the company end, they'd get the exact same return for their money in terms of exposure but the money would be distributed differently.

Furthermore, do you think Elverys wouldn't mind if some of what was earmarked for a specific market ie Mayo wound up promoting , say, Antrim or Leitrim football?

They wouldn't get a choice in the matter - they pay the GAA for sponsorship (name on jersey plus whatever else is involved) and that's what they receive. How the GAA spend that money is up to the GAA

Finally, would Liam Moffat & Co. mind id they only get a percentage of what they had expected to et if, say, 50% ofd it was going to one of their competitors?

I guess they wouldn't but it's about redistributing the money in a fairer manner so that every county gets roughly the same. Mayo   may well end up being a net loser in the redistribution process

Fair enough, all of that seems reasonable.
But if, say, Mayo CB, has earmarked €500,00 for development work on the centre of excellence and they only get €250,000, would they be happy then?

I'm not sure. I guess you'd have to separate out current and capital spending in some way. There are loads of possible issues but none that should be unsolvable imo

Still not totally disagreeing with you. But check what Baile Brigin wrote above.
Do you think Dublin would be happy if some of the recipient counties didn't do any serious fundraising if they knew they would be get a cut of Dublin's sponsorship?
On a related issue, Mayo draw a huge amount of their income from donations from supporters worldwide- from Boise, Idaho to Brisbaane, Australia and all places in between. It comes from countries around the world.
There are serious issues with philanthropic donations in all of the jurisdictions involved.
Goverance issues as Timmy O'Leary calls them.
To claim tax relief on a donation, the purpose of the money involved must be clearly laid out. It must be for a specific reason.
Whatever about his antics afterwards, I am 100% certain Timmy made the Mayo CB fully aware of what the money was intended for. He'd won't have been given it otherwise.

[Lar Naparka]

They do so because they anticipate an increase on sales of their products or services or at least to creaate a positive profile in their target market. For example Arnotts sponsor the Dubs. (ASFAIK) and Elverys sponsor Mayo.
Do you think either want to see their investment diluted by having it shared out between all counties and not the ones they had intended it for?

Would they really care so long as they get their coverage i.e. Elverys still being on the Mayo jersey even if all of the sponsorship money wasn't going to Mayo? I don't think they would tbh

Maybe, but if the amount of monety Mayo gets from Elverys is reduced, do you think they'd give Elverys the same amount of coverage?

In what way would Mayo reduce the coverage? The idea is that from the company end, they'd get the exact same return for their money in terms of exposure but the money would be distributed differently.

Furthermore, do you think Elverys wouldn't mind if some of what was earmarked for a specific market ie Mayo wound up promoting , say, Antrim or Leitrim football?

They wouldn't get a choice in the matter - they pay the GAA for sponsorship (name on jersey plus whatever else is involved) and that's what they receive. How the GAA spend that money is up to the GAA

Finally, would Liam Moffat & Co. mind id they only get a percentage of what they had expected to et if, say, 50% ofd it was going to one of their competitors?

I guess they wouldn't but it's about redistributing the money in a fairer manner so that every county gets roughly the same. Mayo   may well end up being a net loser in the redistribution process

Fair enough, all of that seems reasonable.
But if, say, Mayo CB, has earmarked €500,00 for development work on the centre of excellence and they only get €250,000, would they be happy then?

You need to stop thinking of this through a Mayo lens and through a lens of what is important to the game as a whole. Sure Mayo might continue to get better and improve while other counties get left behind, but what use is it to Mayo if they only improve to a nth fraction of what Dublin continue to improve?

Mayo have done very well to transition with the changeover of so many big players in the last couple of seasons but the fact is the gap between them and Dublin has actually widened and will continue to.

I only gave Mayo as an example- all counties who'd be expected to part with money given to them would think the same way. Read what Baile Brigin has already said on the matter.
I 100% agree that the gap between Dublin and Mayo is widening all the time.
Between rural depopulation and, in particular, the drift of county players to Dublin to work or study is a continuing drain on Mayo's resources. (Read every other isolated county into this.) What compounds the probllem is that many will end their playing days by joining Dublin clubs- here Chris Barrett and Enda Varley come to mind.
Those that have families will send their children to Dublin clubs and the kids are a huge percentage of the ones who tend to take Gah seriously and don't drop out at an early stage.
On a side note, do any of the Dub lads here know anything about the percentage of Dub senior club players comes from the country or have culchie parents?
( The Brogans for example and Declan Darcy are just a few.)

[larryin89]

I dont think we really understand the line of thinking behind those who are in charge of both the Dublin project and our games in general . Those behind the project dont see anything wrong with Dublin winning the next 100 all Irelands,  read hickeys article again if you get a chance and get a much more truthful picture of what the hickeys and Gilroy's and gavin's of all this think , " sicken them even more " when asked about splitting Dublin,whilst rightly predicting the two Dublin teams would dominate .

It's a monster and its going to be very difficult to tame .

[whitey]

I dont think we really understand the line of thinking behind those who are in charge of both the Dublin project and our games in general . Those behind the project dont see anything wrong with Dublin winning the next 100 all Irelands,  read hickeys article again if you get a chance and get a much more truthful picture of what the hickeys and Gilroy's and gavin's of all this think , " sicken them even more " when asked about splitting Dublin,whilst rightly predicting the two Dublin teams would dominate .

It's a monster and its going to be very difficult to tame .

There was a similar article to Hickeys written by a former Dublin player in 2019, essentially saying it was great to kick Mayo when they were down (after Mayo had come through the qualifiers and had half their squad banjaxed, some with career threatening injuries)

[From the Bunker]

I have been reading a good few analysis pieces about the match before and after and I don't think any of them addressed the pointlessness of the match.
Dublin have been working on this machine for the last 18 years. A lot of journalism focuses on now but now is too late.
They had 2 all stars in the subs. They didn't develop their S&C levels on Friday. The players are at the top of a pyramid whicch didn't come into being last month.
And the Dub fans fan defences are atrocious.

This nonsense can go on indefinitely. There is no sign of competition returning anytime soon. Gaelic football is dying at county level.

There is the continued head in the sand stuff! You have to remember who buys these papers, who advertise in these papers. You also have to remember that there are a lot of people who are not that read or educated on the current Dublin intercounty team.

Some have even resorted to balming Mayo's lack of killer instinct!

There is a mass confusion as to who to turn to, to re-invent a County that may be a threat next year. Kerry, Donegal, Galway or maybe Tyrone. All as fragile as Mayo when you compare them to the Golden Child!

[Lar Naparka]

I dont think we really understand the line of thinking behind those who are in charge of both the Dublin project and our games in general . Those behind the project dont see anything wrong with Dublin winning the next 100 all Irelands,  read hickeys article again if you get a chance and get a much more truthful picture of what the hickeys and Gilroy's and gavin's of all this think , " sicken them even more " when asked about splitting Dublin,whilst rightly predicting the two Dublin teams would dominate .

It's a monster and its going to be very difficult to tame .

I don't intend posting again for the rest of today as I even I can get enough of me.
But I think I understand why those behind the project you mention are prepared to continue as before  -while ignoring the distress signals coming from all sides.
Nobody behind the Bertie/ Bailey deal  could have imagined what the outcome was going to be. Bertie, at best, figured that Dublin would be involved in maybe 3 out of 5 All Irelands.
How wrong he was!!
A monster has been created that is now out of control.
But if the funding to Dublin is curtailed, the Dublin club structure will be badly hit.
I agree with Bertie that the GAA needs a strong Dublin presence, otherwise about a third of the country's population will be largely ignored.
That's a double whammy of major proportions.

"There may be trouble ahead," as the old song puts it.
Problem is that there will be no "may be" but  definitely there will "will be."

[seafoid]

I dont think we really understand the line of thinking behind those who are in charge of both the Dublin project and our games in general . Those behind the project dont see anything wrong with Dublin winning the next 100 all Irelands,  read hickeys article again if you get a chance and get a much more truthful picture of what the hickeys and Gilroy's and gavin's of all this think , " sicken them even more " when asked about splitting Dublin,whilst rightly predicting the two Dublin teams would dominate .

It's a monster and its going to be very difficult to tame .

It's a cunning plan but in order to win the all Ireland they have to beat other counties.
And there is nothing in it for other counties. What is the point of the Leinster coronation of Dublin?
What is the point of Mayo  playing in all Ireland finals now?

So the other counties should set up their own competition.
The All Ireland now is a farce