Man Utd Thread:

[Geoff Tipps]

I think the question about Jones is that at the time to pay £16.5m for a 19 year old defender was unheard of. There was an expectation that he would become the John Terry type leader when in fact he has turned out to be quite hapless. Liverpool' were going hard for him at the time and I have to say I'm glad we dodged that one. Henderson has been grand but the signing of that summer that rankled most was Stewart Downing. Like what the f**k was that all about, bought to get balls on Carroll's head and barely got any assists. And don't get me started on Charlie Adams!  Made how things seemingly have changed.

Sunday united to win 2-1

You actually think Utd will have two shots?

United won the cup in '77 (2-1) and didn't have 2 shots on target 

[magpie seanie]

Jones was signed for big money. £16.5 million up front, with talk that went past £20 million with add-ons. That was very big money for a teenage defender in 2011. Probably only 5 or 6 clubs in the world paying those sorts of fees around then.

It seems his wages were relatively modest originally, though. It's only in recent years that the club have been doling out stupid money.

United are making a bad enough job of running the club themselves without people having to invent bolloks like this.... He was just inside the top 10 transfers in the league that Summer, Liverpool and Arsenal were in the running for him too. It was about the going rate for a young English emerging talent.

No idea what point you are trying to make?

Jordan Henderson is England captain and won a CL medal last year after years of ridicule from his own supporters. Every player can't be a Messi. Many players can be an important functional part of a top team in a role that's suited to their talents.

Don't think he was ever ridiculed, certainly has had a critic or two but Henderson has always giving 100% which has always been appreciated.
I've always been a fan of his, personally I think him getting sent off at Anfield against City back in Rodgers time was the losing of the league title that season.

Fair enough LL but two of my best mates are Liverpool supporters and I had a conversation with them last January where one of them was very critical of Henderson. Other guy acknowledged that Henderson wasn't the most popular player among Liverpool supporters but reckoned Henderson would play a big role in the rest of the season and I think he was proved right. Small sample size I know but I do think soccer/sports fans in general engage in black and white thought processes when everything is really shades of grey. Of course that's because the coverage of sport is that way and fans are just copying that. I've always felt Jones gave it everything but all the injuries chipped away at him and he never became the player he threatened to be when he was signed. I remember him striding out of defence, beating players on barnstorming runs in the early days and thinking - man, this guy is going to be something else. He was a good prospect. Giving him a big new contract was stupid.

For Sunday - if Liverpool are a bit off their game and United rise theirs it could be interesting. United badly need to get to January and get some extra bodies but it's only October.

[trueblue1234]

Jones was signed for big money. £16.5 million up front, with talk that went past £20 million with add-ons. That was very big money for a teenage defender in 2011. Probably only 5 or 6 clubs in the world paying those sorts of fees around then.

It seems his wages were relatively modest originally, though. It's only in recent years that the club have been doling out stupid money.

United are making a bad enough job of running the club themselves without people having to invent bolloks like this.... He was just inside the top 10 transfers in the league that Summer, Liverpool and Arsenal were in the running for him too. It was about the going rate for a young English emerging talent.

No idea what point you are trying to make?

Jordan Henderson is England captain and won a CL medal last year after years of ridicule from his own supporters. Every player can't be a Messi. Many players can be an important functional part of a top team in a role that's suited to their talents.

Don't think he was ever ridiculed, certainly has had a critic or two but Henderson has always giving 100% which has always been appreciated.
I've always been a fan of his, personally I think him getting sent off at Anfield against City back in Rodgers time was the losing of the league title that season.

Fair enough LL but two of my best mates are Liverpool supporters and I had a conversation with them last January where one of them was very critical of Henderson. Other guy acknowledged that Henderson wasn't the most popular player among Liverpool supporters but reckoned Henderson would play a big role in the rest of the season and I think he was proved right. Small sample size I know but I do think soccer/sports fans in general engage in black and white thought processes when everything is really shades of grey. Of course that's because the coverage of sport is that way and fans are just copying that. I've always felt Jones gave it everything but all the injuries chipped away at him and he never became the player he threatened to be when he was signed. I remember him striding out of defence, beating players on barnstorming runs in the early days and thinking - man, this guy is going to be something else. He was a good prospect. Giving him a big new contract was stupid.

For Sunday - if Liverpool are a bit off their game and United rise theirs it could be interesting. United badly need to get to January and get some extra bodies but it's only October.

I think there was a bit of negativity regarding him alright. And there can be for these types of players who may look limited in footballing ability but are absolutely vital for teams to maintain the high tempo that Liverpool play to and the pressing game. Lucas was another one that got horrendous abuse early in his career but proved himself over time. It can be the Match of the day effect. Henderson will rarely look great on MotD as he rarely does the spectacular and doesn't get much air time in the highlights. But he works his arse of and anyone watching the full game will generally see what he brings to the table.   

[TabClear]

I think there was a bit of negativity regarding him alright. And there can be for these types of players who may look limited in footballing ability but are absolutely vital for teams to maintain the high tempo that Liverpool play to and the pressing game. Lucas was another one that got horrendous abuse early in his career but proved himself over time. It can be the Match of the day effect. Henderson will rarely look great on MotD as he rarely does the spectacular and doesn't get much air time in the highlights. But he works his arse of and anyone watching the full game will generally see what he brings to the table.

Thats a lot to do with it for the "armchair" supporter. I watch most Liverpool games right through and appreciate the work Henderson does but as you say, not much ends up on MoTD. Pogba is the polar opposite in my view. On the highlights he will have 2 or three brilliant moments or pieces of skill and looks good for Linekar & Co but for 95% of the game he is anonymous, uninterested or not involved.

There is a place for both types of players in certain teams/matches but Liverpool's system needs the workhorses in midfield. The likes of Pogba would seriously unbalance it. I think its one of the reasons Liverpool were happy to sanction the Couthinho sale when it was obvious he wanted to go. People attribute the improvement in Liverpool defensively to VVD arriving and clearly that has been teh primary reason. However, I think Couthinho's departure also had an impact. By his leaving it automatically means that one of the regular starters is now replaced by a more defensively minded player (whether its Hendo, Gini, or by default that the front three is now fixed rather than 3 from 4.

[nrico2006]

I think there was a bit of negativity regarding him alright. And there can be for these types of players who may look limited in footballing ability but are absolutely vital for teams to maintain the high tempo that Liverpool play to and the pressing game. Lucas was another one that got horrendous abuse early in his career but proved himself over time. It can be the Match of the day effect. Henderson will rarely look great on MotD as he rarely does the spectacular and doesn't get much air time in the highlights. But he works his arse of and anyone watching the full game will generally see what he brings to the table.

Thats a lot to do with it for the "armchair" supporter. I watch most Liverpool games right through and appreciate the work Henderson does but as you say, not much ends up on MoTD. Pogba is the polar opposite in my view. On the highlights he will have 2 or three brilliant moments or pieces of skill and looks good for Linekar & Co but for 95% of the game he is anonymous, uninterested or not involved.

There is a place for both types of players in certain teams/matches but Liverpool's system needs the workhorses in midfield. The likes of Pogba would seriously unbalance it. I think its one of the reasons Liverpool were happy to sanction the Couthinho sale when it was obvious he wanted to go. People attribute the improvement in Liverpool defensively to VVD arriving and clearly that has been teh primary reason. However, I think Couthinho's departure also had an impact. By his leaving it automatically means that one of the regular starters is now replaced by a more defensively minded player (whether its Hendo, Gini, or by default that the front three is now fixed rather than 3 from 4.

I think the Van Dijk contribution to Liverpools defence has been over-stated too.  People forget that Robertson, Arnold and the Allison were also essentially new players too.

[Boycey]

Doom.....

The only place quieter than here is the Liverpool thread 

[Milltown Row2]

Doom.....

The only place quieter than here is the Liverpool thread 

It won't be quiet after the match. Utd can only hope for a boring 0-0 but they don't have the players to thwart Liverpool's attack. 9/10 in places for Liverpool. That has to be easy money 

[Jeepers Creepers]

Salah not in the Liverpool squad? One less headache for Utd. Still can't see Utd causing Liverpool any problems.
I will also add that Fred is starting. Ole trying to pack midfield.

[under the bar]

I expect Fergie to visit the dressing room ahead of kick-off to remind some of the passengers in the team what it means to play in this fixture. 

[t_mac]

Oh dear.

[t_mac]

Doom.....

The only place quieter than here is the Liverpool thread 

It won't be quiet after the match. Utd can only hope for a boring 0-0 but they don't have the players to thwart Liverpool's attack. 9/10 in places for Liverpool. That has to be easy money

Hope you hadn't lumped on.

[under the bar]

Not going so well for Scouse Cheaters Inc. so far....?

[t_mac]

Not going so well for Scouse Cheaters Inc. so far....?

Getting better. 

[under the bar]

Despite fluking an undeserved draw Liverpool affirm what everyone knows. They can't win in Manchester.

[t_mac]

Despite fluking an undeserved draw Liverpool affirm what everyone knows. They can't win in Manchester.

Oh dear that seems to have hurt, bless, don't worry 3 months to McKenna cup, party time.