Hamas attack Israel & subsequent genocide

[Milltown Row2]

Please show me where I haven't agreed with anything you are saying?

I'm merely stating that there is more at play here. Images from the festival, from bodycam footage from Hamas clearly shows East African Muslims involved in the attack, they were not from Gaza.

When this goes proper tits up it will involve a lot more deaths outside of the Middle East

There's no ceasefire coming from this due to the western governments approval for bloody revenge.

The Middle East is, I suppose has been destabilised for many years, this current one will be the worst.

All I'm doing is linking outside players to latest war, I really don't think if given a choice the Palestinian people would have said yes to the attacks knowing that they'd be targeted in a brutal attack afterwards.

And yes I know they have been land grabbing and brutalising for 75 years, but this is on a different level.

It hasn't got the worldwide response it was probably hoping for, not sure if the final death toll will be worth it

[LeoMc]

The Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.

If Israel attempts to ethnically cleanse the Palestinans AGAIN the whole Middle East will attack it simultaneously. What is happening right now is genocide run by Israeli Jews. Imagine if Ireland imposed a famine on England. That is how fucked up Israel is .

Is that not what Israel is doing without a chirp from the "whole Middle East"?

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Please show me where I haven't agreed with anything you are saying?

I'm merely stating that there is more at play here. Images from the festival, from bodycam footage from Hamas clearly shows East African Muslims involved in the attack, they were not from Gaza.

When this goes proper tits up it will involve a lot more deaths outside of the Middle East

There's no ceasefire coming from this due to the western governments approval for bloody revenge.

The Middle East is, I suppose has been destabilised for many years, this current one will be the worst.

All I'm doing is linking outside players to latest war, I really don't think if given a choice the Palestinian people would have said yes to the attacks knowing that they'd be targeted in a brutal attack afterwards.

And yes I know they have been land grabbing and brutalising for 75 years, but this is on a different level.

It hasn't got the worldwide response it was probably hoping for, not sure if the final death toll will be worth it

Can you provide any links to east african non gaza combatants? from articles I have read there is support for armed resistance. the Palestinians don't care about 'the more at play' they have tried for 75 years for self determination and they have been denied it, armed resistance is a natural reaction...

your focus seems fixed on what palestinans should/shouldn't do, when its apparent nothing they do apart from potentially armed resistance will work as the west refuses to hold Israel to account.

[seafoid]

Please show me where I haven't agreed with anything you are saying?

I'm merely stating that there is more at play here. Images from the festival, from bodycam footage from Hamas clearly shows East African Muslims involved in the attack, they were not from Gaza.

When this goes proper tits up it will involve a lot more deaths outside of the Middle East

There's no ceasefire coming from this due to the western governments approval for bloody revenge.

The Middle East is, I suppose has been destabilised for many years, this current one will be the worst.

All I'm doing is linking outside players to latest war, I really don't think if given a choice the Palestinian people would have said yes to the attacks knowing that they'd be targeted in a brutal attack afterwards.

And yes I know they have been land grabbing and brutalising for 75 years, but this is on a different level.

It hasn't got the worldwide response it was probably hoping for, not sure if the final death toll will be worth it

You have to understand the situation before 7 Oct. Israelis were convinced that the Palestinians were a defeated people, that there was a technological solution to keep Israel secure and that the Arabs could be bought to abandon the Palestinians vis the Abraham Accords. Even Saudi was tlking about normalising with Israel.

Now Arabs are united in outrage against Israel's genocide in Gaza. The Americans are not in a position to take out Iran. It's not 2003 any longer. So things have already improved for the Palestinians. Israel will have to climb down soon and the G7 will pay for the rebuild with a bit more for Casement Park. 

[LeoMc]

Please show me where I haven't agreed with anything you are saying?

I'm merely stating that there is more at play here. Images from the festival, from bodycam footage from Hamas clearly shows East African Muslims involved in the attack, they were not from Gaza.

When this goes proper tits up it will involve a lot more deaths outside of the Middle East

There's no ceasefire coming from this due to the western governments approval for bloody revenge.

The Middle East is, I suppose has been destabilised for many years, this current one will be the worst.

All I'm doing is linking outside players to latest war, I really don't think if given a choice the Palestinian people would have said yes to the attacks knowing that they'd be targeted in a brutal attack afterwards.

And yes I know they have been land grabbing and brutalising for 75 years, but this is on a different level.

It hasn't got the worldwide response it was probably hoping for, not sure if the final death toll will be worth it

You have to understand the situation before 7 Oct. Israelis were convinced that the Palestinians were a defeated people, that there was a technological solution to keep Israel secure and that the Arabs could be bought to abandon the Palestinians vis the Abraham Accords. Even Saudi was tlking about normalising with Israel.

Now Arabs are united in outrage against Israel's genocide in Gaza. The Americans are not in a position to take out Iran. It's not 2003 any longer. So things have already improved for the Palestinians. Israel will have to climb down soon and the G7 will pay for the rebuild with a bit more for Casement Park. 

Things have improved for the Palestinians? Seriously?

Were the 10,000 dead worth this "improvement"?

[LeoMc]

The people voted for Hamas in 2006.
50% of the population of Gaza are under 18.
What % of the current population voted for Hamas, and how many would do it today.

Most international calls for a ceasefire emphasise that the Hamas are not representative of the people of Gaza, that the people are not complicit in the war crimes.

is there a ceasefire? it doesn't matter if palestinians support Hamas or not..

Israel which has occupied, oppressed and massacred Palestinians for 75 years plus has been given carte blanche to continue to do as it pleases. is anyone concerned with who they voted in or supported over those 75 plus years.

The hypocrisy of the Uk/Eu/UK is evident to those who couldn't see it before yet it makes no difference. Genocide is now  actively supported by Uk/Eu/UK, I am not sure how many more innocent civilians have to die to satisfy the Zionist bloodlust, its possible that those who aren't pushed into the Egyptian desert (after Egyptians are bought off) will be massacred as ethic cleansing is now acceptable to Uk/Eu/UK too.

It does matter when the Israelis are assuming guilt by association and muddying the water gives them a fig leaf while they implement collective punishment in their blood lust.

[seafoid]

The Egyptians don't want them, nor do the Jordanians. Nor does any other Arab state, for that matter. Most likely, Israel will connive to have them shipped to Europe and Canada.

If Israel attempts to ethnically cleanse the Palestinans AGAIN the whole Middle East will attack it simultaneously. What is happening right now is genocide run by Israeli Jews. Imagine if Ireland imposed a famine on England. That is how fucked up Israel is .

Is that not what Israel is doing without a chirp from the "whole Middle East"?

People are waiting . It's like the run up to WW1. 2 alliances, totally polarised  and it just needs a trigger like the US declaring war on Iran. 

[PadraicHenryPearse]

The people voted for Hamas in 2006.
50% of the population of Gaza are under 18.
What % of the current population voted for Hamas, and how many would do it today.

Most international calls for a ceasefire emphasise that the Hamas are not representative of the people of Gaza, that the people are not complicit in the war crimes.

is there a ceasefire? it doesn't matter if palestinians support Hamas or not..

Israel which has occupied, oppressed and massacred Palestinians for 75 years plus has been given carte blanche to continue to do as it pleases. is anyone concerned with who they voted in or supported over those 75 plus years.

The hypocrisy of the Uk/Eu/UK is evident to those who couldn't see it before yet it makes no difference. Genocide is now  actively supported by Uk/Eu/UK, I am not sure how many more innocent civilians have to die to satisfy the Zionist bloodlust, its possible that those who aren't pushed into the Egyptian desert (after Egyptians are bought off) will be massacred as ethic cleansing is now acceptable to Uk/Eu/UK too.

It does matter when the Israelis are assuming guilt by association and muddying the water gives them a fig leaf while they implement collective punishment in their blood lust.

they collectively punish anyway.. the scale and time period are just sped up for a while.. Look at the west bank which is not under Hamas.. no different.. look at the deaths and injuries figures for years/decades. Look at the apartheid in Israel.

slowing dying in caged Gaza or suffocating in shrinking west Bank and waiting for the west or Arabs to do something has resulted in nothing positive for Palestinans, just the noose getting tigher.

[gallsman]

The idea that any other middle Eastern country is coming to the aid of the Palestinians or that there is anything resembling, or that could resemble, a middle Eastern "alliance" is completely and utterly delusional.

This incessant need to push the idea of some sort of pan Arab or pan Islamic mentality is bizarre and devoid of any reason.

[Franko]

Would you not question the reasons as to the likes of the US and Iran Syria supply the weapons and stoke or support these wars? Its not to save lives in that region

Palestine has every right to defend itself, no problem with that, and you can only poke the bear so many times before it bites back, but the latest events have only lead to serious developments where the innocents are the losers here

In other news

The sun is yellow

Well that's a better response than trying to shoehorn in the hospital attack to every post

You fail to see the relevance which is unsurprising

If the gullible idiots refuse to swallow the hospital propaganda, then the tide of international revulsion rises much more quickly

As it is, they get away with it and continue to perpetrate atrocity after atrocity, until, at some point they do something so absolutely shocking, that Biden/Von der Leyen/Sunak etc etc can't ignore it any longer and tell them to stop

Lets face it - Israel is a small country, not dissimilar to Ireland in population and much smaller in area, with minimal natural resources

They have no inherent strength

They depend entirely on US weapons and money and tacit Western approval for each and every action they take here

Remove either of these things and they're fcuked

[Milltown Row2]

Israel's position (in the Middle East) is the sole reason to its importance to the west. It's unwavering defiance to Iran and other Arab states gives them, it seems,  carte blanche, it will only take international condemnation of Israel's atrocities from the governments, but for whatever reason or what they provide the west with, it keeps allowing them to continue unabated.

[armaghniac]

Israel's position (in the Middle East) is the sole reason to its importance to the west. It's unwavering defiance to Iran and other Arab states gives them, it seems,  carte blanche, it will only take international condemnation of Israel's atrocities from the governments, but for whatever reason or what they provide the west with, it keeps allowing them to continue unabated.

That's a simplification, and simplifications curse this debate. The West allowed 6 million Jews die without doing much about it in some cases and actively doing it in others and that also informs attitudes to Israel.

[seafoid]

Please show me where I haven't agreed with anything you are saying?

I'm merely stating that there is more at play here. Images from the festival, from bodycam footage from Hamas clearly shows East African Muslims involved in the attack, they were not from Gaza.

When this goes proper tits up it will involve a lot more deaths outside of the Middle East

There's no ceasefire coming from this due to the western governments approval for bloody revenge.

The Middle East is, I suppose has been destabilised for many years, this current one will be the worst.

All I'm doing is linking outside players to latest war, I really don't think if given a choice the Palestinian people would have said yes to the attacks knowing that they'd be targeted in a brutal attack afterwards.

And yes I know they have been land grabbing and brutalising for 75 years, but this is on a different level.

It hasn't got the worldwide response it was probably hoping for, not sure if the final death toll will be worth it

You have to understand the situation before 7 Oct. Israelis were convinced that the Palestinians were a defeated people, that there was a technological solution to keep Israel secure and that the Arabs could be bought to abandon the Palestinians vis the Abraham Accords. Even Saudi was tlking about normalising with Israel.

Now Arabs are united in outrage against Israel's genocide in Gaza. The Americans are not in a position to take out Iran. It's not 2003 any longer. So things have already improved for the Palestinians. Israel will have to climb down soon and the G7 will pay for the rebuild with a bit more for Casement Park. 

Things have improved for the Palestinians? Seriously?

Were the 10,000 dead worth this "improvement"?

The Palestinians didn't kill them. Israel pre Oct 7 said no Palestinian state. Obama mentioned a Palestinian State as the answer last week. so if it gets them a state yes it is positive.

https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/1716524464643375138

[Milltown Row2]

Israel's position (in the Middle East) is the sole reason to its importance to the west. It's unwavering defiance to Iran and other Arab states gives them, it seems,  carte blanche, it will only take international condemnation of Israel's atrocities from the governments, but for whatever reason or what they provide the west with, it keeps allowing them to continue unabated.

That's a simplification, and simplifications curse this debate. The West allowed 6 million Jews die without doing much about it in some cases and actively doing it in others and that also informs attitudes to Israel.

Whether the west allowed it to happen during the holocaust is debatable, ordinary men, I think, is the doc on Netflix that will certainly give you perspective on how, ordinary men can do unimaginable things to fellow men.

This is happening now in 'reverse' and happened for all to see during the Balkan war. The west will step in when it suits them, maybe when there is something in it for them, halting the Russians in Ukraine seems to be ok and just, preventing ten of thousands of deaths in Palestine not so much..

Africa is a complete mess, but gets no coverage unless millions die of hunger, but never covering or sorting out the reasons to why they are dying

As Itchy said, a meteorite would sort the whole place out!

[seafoid]

Israel's geopolitical purpose is to put  smacht on the Middle East so that oil continues to flow. Israel was used as a bulwark against Arab nationalism in Egypt, Syria and Iraq in the 1960s. Egypt was brought onside when Israel handed back the Sinai in 1979. Israel was an ally of the shah in Iran until the revolution. Israel is an ally of Azerbaijan now.
Israel was feared up until a few years ago when the balance of military power changed after the Iraq and Syria wars.
Now Israel is running apartheid with genocide featuring this week. The locals are not happy. Israel has a lot of enemies and takes a lot of risks.  The biggest danger would be the US abandoning it. The europeans abandoned the Crusaders in the Middle ages.


https://nationalinterest.org/commentary/brzezinski-the-syria-crisis-8636

But in the long run, a hostile region like that cannot be policed, even by a nuclear-armed Israel. It will simply do to Israel what some of the wars have done to us on a smaller scale. Attrite it, tire it, fatigue it, demoralize it, cause emigration of the best and the first, and then some sort of cataclysm at the end which cannot be predicted at this stage because we don't know who will have what by when. And after all, Iran is next door. It might have some nuclear capability. Suppose the Israelis knock it off. What about Pakistan and others? The notion that one can control a region from a very strong and motivated country, but of only six million people, is simply a wild dream.