China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.

[sid waddell]

I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.

Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

[Angelo]

I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.

Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

[sid waddell]

Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.

Ahem

My reference was to your point of -

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

There is nobody of sound mind that can really be saying that lockdown and everything that came with it was beneficial to others with illnesses. I understand their points about how it should have helped, but it most certainly did not help, in reality.

Some posters here have already explained it

It's a very simple point

A situation where Covid is not spreading wildly is clearly a better situation for people with non-Covid medical problems than a situation where Covid is spreading wildly

This is undeniable

That would be lovely, except, you know. It has been spreading wildly. for best part of a year now and the more testing we do....the more that becomes obvious despite whatever efforts they do to halt it (that doesn't of course, involve the only sure fire way to actually get a hold of it, in mass testing).

Still doesn't help any poor soul sitting waiting for whatever now due to Covid being the only show in town, a gross injustice of this all.

Not even the most contrarian of our posters here will accept that is right, especially since the survival rate of Covid, is, what it is.

Plenty of places have largely contained Covid

Lockdowns work in terms of reducing cases and infections

This is undeniable - nobody can point to a lockdown which hasn't worked

It is better for people with non-Covid medical problems to be in a situation where the virus is not spreading wildly than in a situation where it is spreading wildly

Therefore a lockdown will benefit those with non-Covid medical problems vis a vis a situation where Covid is allowed spread

[Angelo]

Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.

Ahem

My reference was to your point of -

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

There is nobody of sound mind that can really be saying that lockdown and everything that came with it was beneficial to others with illnesses. I understand their points about how it should have helped, but it most certainly did not help, in reality.

Some posters here have already explained it

It's a very simple point

A situation where Covid is not spreading wildly is clearly a better situation for people with non-Covid medical problems than a situation where Covid is spreading wildly

This is undeniable

That would be lovely, except, you know. It has been spreading wildly. for best part of a year now and the more testing we do....the more that becomes obvious despite whatever efforts they do to halt it (that doesn't of course, involve the only sure fire way to actually get a hold of it, in mass testing).

Still doesn't help any poor soul sitting waiting for whatever now due to Covid being the only show in town, a gross injustice of this all.

Not even the most contrarian of our posters here will accept that is right, especially since the survival rate of Covid, is, what it is.

Plenty of places have largely contained Covid

Lockdowns work in terms of reducing cases and infections

This is undeniable - nobody can point to a lockdown which hasn't worked

It is better for people with non-Covid medical problems to be in a situation where the virus is not spreading wildly than in a situation where it is spreading wildly

Therefore a lockdown will benefit those with non-Covid medical problems vis a vis a situation where Covid is allowed spread

Lockdowns also cause significant economic damage, mass unemployment and mental health problems associated with such.

[93-DY-SAM]

I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.

Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I've posted this before but it sums up the modern age where anyone can read a post from Facebook and suddenly they a leading expert in that field:

https://medium.com/discourse/the-dunning-kruger-effect-explains-why-society-is-so-screwed-up-1432aca90aa8

Put simply, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. That is, some people are too stupid to know how stupid they are, while smart people assume most can do what they can.

The mask argument is a point in case. The amount of "experts" that masks don't work, they affect your breathing and so on is frightening. How hard is it to stick on a mask when in a shop? These so called experts will be in the first in line to call out everybody and anybody for not acting in a timely fashion if the death rate does start to shoot up. I've seen people I know and know well on Facebook sharing content from various right leaning commentators around the world about how this is all a scam, it's big pharma and Bill Gates planning a mega payday and the like. Then without any irony at all they'll share a post from a medical professional asking us to respect social distancing, wear masks and be responsible. The past 6 months months have shown us the best of humanity and the absolute worst. 

If people would simply listen and do the right thing we wouldn't be in the position we are in now. Hearing stories constantly about people going to other family members houses when they have received positive test results or are awaiting test results, school children having sleepovers in each other houses, house parties (which adults who should know better), packed wake houses and so on. It is these things that is dragging this out and unfortunately it is a significant minority engaged in this behaviour. The argument that "sure the children are in a bubble anyway" doesn't wash. That is fine when they are at school where they are at least in a reasonably controlled environment, therefore the spread has not been prolific in schools. Plenty of schools have had to close due to isolated cases but I don't think there has been any major spread of COVID in a school environment.

[Angelo]

I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.

Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I've posted this before but it sums up the modern age where anyone can read a post from Facebook and suddenly they a leading expert in that field:

https://medium.com/discourse/the-dunning-kruger-effect-explains-why-society-is-so-screwed-up-1432aca90aa8

Put simply, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. That is, some people are too stupid to know how stupid they are, while smart people assume most can do what they can.

The mask argument is a point in case. The amount of "experts" that masks don't work, they affect your breathing and so on is frightening. How hard is it to stick on a mask when in a shop? These so called experts will be in the first in line to call out everybody and anybody for not acting in a timely fashion if the death rate does start to shoot up. I've seen people I know and know well on Facebook sharing content from various right leaning commentators around the world about how this is all a scam, it's big pharma and Bill Gates planning a mega payday and the like. Then without any irony at all they'll share a post from a medical professional asking us to respect social distancing, wear masks and be responsible. The past 6 months months have shown us the best of humanity and the absolute worst. 

If people would simply listen and do the right thing we wouldn't be in the position we are in now. Hearing stories constantly about people going to other family members houses when they have received positive test results or are awaiting test results, school children having sleepovers in each other houses, house parties (which adults who should know better), packed wake houses and so on. It is these things that is dragging this out and unfortunately it is a significant minority engaged in this behaviour. The argument that "sure the children are in a bubble anyway" doesn't wash. That is fine when they are at school where they are at least in a reasonably controlled environment, therefore the spread has not been prolific in schools. Plenty of schools have had to close due to isolated cases but I don't think there has been any major spread of COVID in a school environment.

Listen to who?

The "experts" who say masks work or the "experts" who don't.

This is science in a nutshell, they don't know, none of us do. I've no issue with wearing a mask, sanitising, social distancing, closure of pubs/restaurants, etc, etc.

The north has not acted to enter a second lockdown despite its rampant spread, the Free State more or less has. In many ways the assembly had their hands tied as they did not have the financial means to support a lockdown as Westminister controls the purse strings. I think the FS is scared shitless of their dysfunctional health service and that is what is influencing their every decision down there. Most European countries are taking a much more relaxed approach to a surge in cases.

There are two factors here, the doom merchants who think we are all going to die from the virus and the ones who claim the whole thing is a scam - none of these hysterical two sides know anything more than the others. The rise in cases in the north at present is through the roof - we will see in the next 5/6 weeks how that translates to deaths and that will give us a better idea on who is closer to the truth, the doom merchants or the scam sceptics.

[Angelo]

If you take Spain as an example.

Spain were hit very hard in the first wave.

At the end of July, they had 325,874 positive cases of Covid and 28,445 deaths - a 9% mortality rate.

From Aug - present, there have been an additional 592,349 positive cases of Covid and an additional 4,679 deaths - a 0.008 mortality rate.

So what does that tell us?

Is the virus losing its potency?
Were the positive cases in the period up to July not properly recorded due to not being prepared for it, testing and tracing systems not being developed enough?
Are we now better able to treat the virus?

That's the data available.

[J70]

What "experts" say masks don't work?

[Angelo]

What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

[LCohen]

I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.

Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I think you'll find "scaremongering" refers to the doom merchants who know nothing about the virus.

The virus has ran riot up North at the minute, the infection levels are rampant. The next 5/6 weeks are going to tell us all about those who dismiss the virus and those who are running around scaremongering. If the scaremongerers are right we are going to see mass deaths in the north overt he next 5/6 weeks in relation to the virus.

Do you think anybody who doesn't know everything about Covid knows nothing about Covid?

Also these death figures that you feel people have predicted in 5-6 weeks time. Where are you getting that from? Who has made those predictions?

[LCohen]

Can I ask, who considers lockdown to be a "utopia", as is being claimed?

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

Because this seems to be the implication

Nobody is saying that.

The point was made that lockdown benefits people with other illnesses.

That is certainly not the experiences of others that I have bore witness to.

How in your utopia of lockdown, do you think that is a better service? Also consider, the knock on effect from all these cancellations and now the backlog.

Ahem

My reference was to your point of -

And how would even more widespread virus spread help people with non-Covid medical problems?

There is nobody of sound mind that can really be saying that lockdown and everything that came with it was beneficial to others with illnesses. I understand their points about how it should have helped, but it most certainly did not help, in reality.

Some posters here have already explained it

It's a very simple point

A situation where Covid is not spreading wildly is clearly a better situation for people with non-Covid medical problems than a situation where Covid is spreading wildly

This is undeniable

That would be lovely, except, you know. It has been spreading wildly. for best part of a year now and the more testing we do....the more that becomes obvious despite whatever efforts they do to halt it (that doesn't of course, involve the only sure fire way to actually get a hold of it, in mass testing).

Still doesn't help any poor soul sitting waiting for whatever now due to Covid being the only show in town, a gross injustice of this all.

Not even the most contrarian of our posters here will accept that is right, especially since the survival rate of Covid, is, what it is.

Plenty of places have largely contained Covid

Lockdowns work in terms of reducing cases and infections

This is undeniable - nobody can point to a lockdown which hasn't worked

It is better for people with non-Covid medical problems to be in a situation where the virus is not spreading wildly than in a situation where it is spreading wildly

Therefore a lockdown will benefit those with non-Covid medical problems vis a vis a situation where Covid is allowed spread

Lockdowns also cause significant economic damage, mass unemployment and mental health problems associated with such.

And not locking down also causes those problems, possibly for longer? You do see that??

[J70]

What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

[Jeepers Creepers]

What "experts" say masks don't work?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-52153145

That was six months ago. Does he still believe that?

How do you explain places like New York, where cases plummeted following the state mandating the wearing of masks in public in April and where most people are actually adhering to mask wearing?

No one is saying masks alone are the panacaea. However, they've been standard practice in health care for decades to reduce the chances of staff infecting patients through exhalation of infectious droplets. Even if they're only 10% effective in reducing COVID transmission, that's still something worth pursuing, along with the social distancing, hand hygiene and so on.

+1

[LCohen]

I find that a good rule of thumb in any discussion about Covid is to ignore anybody who uses the word "scaremongering"

One word, but it says a whole lot about a person's mind

I think it's better to ignore people who speak with authority on something they're not qualified to.

Aye

A lot of them use the word "scaremongering"

I've posted this before but it sums up the modern age where anyone can read a post from Facebook and suddenly they a leading expert in that field:

https://medium.com/discourse/the-dunning-kruger-effect-explains-why-society-is-so-screwed-up-1432aca90aa8

Put simply, the Dunning-Kruger Effect is the tendency for people to misjudge their abilities. People with less than average abilities tend to overestimate their true abilities, while those with higher than average abilities tend to not realize how much better they are. That is, some people are too stupid to know how stupid they are, while smart people assume most can do what they can.

The mask argument is a point in case. The amount of "experts" that masks don't work, they affect your breathing and so on is frightening. How hard is it to stick on a mask when in a shop? These so called experts will be in the first in line to call out everybody and anybody for not acting in a timely fashion if the death rate does start to shoot up. I've seen people I know and know well on Facebook sharing content from various right leaning commentators around the world about how this is all a scam, it's big pharma and Bill Gates planning a mega payday and the like. Then without any irony at all they'll share a post from a medical professional asking us to respect social distancing, wear masks and be responsible. The past 6 months months have shown us the best of humanity and the absolute worst. 

If people would simply listen and do the right thing we wouldn't be in the position we are in now. Hearing stories constantly about people going to other family members houses when they have received positive test results or are awaiting test results, school children having sleepovers in each other houses, house parties (which adults who should know better), packed wake houses and so on. It is these things that is dragging this out and unfortunately it is a significant minority engaged in this behaviour. The argument that "sure the children are in a bubble anyway" doesn't wash. That is fine when they are at school where they are at least in a reasonably controlled environment, therefore the spread has not been prolific in schools. Plenty of schools have had to close due to isolated cases but I don't think there has been any major spread of COVID in a school environment.

Listen to who?

The "experts" who say masks work or the "experts" who don't.

This is science in a nutshell, they don't know, none of us do. I've no issue with wearing a mask, sanitising, social distancing, closure of pubs/restaurants, etc, etc.

The north has not acted to enter a second lockdown despite its rampant spread, the Free State more or less has. In many ways the assembly had their hands tied as they did not have the financial means to support a lockdown as Westminister controls the purse strings. I think the FS is scared shitless of their dysfunctional health service and that is what is influencing their every decision down there. Most European countries are taking a much more relaxed approach to a surge in cases.

There are two factors here, the doom merchants who think we are all going to die from the virus and the ones who claim the whole thing is a scam - none of these hysterical two sides know anything more than the others. The rise in cases in the north at present is through the roof - we will see in the next 5/6 weeks how that translates to deaths and that will give us a better idea on who is closer to the truth, the doom merchants or the scam sceptics.

Where these experts involved in public health and concerned about the supply of face masks and the general public buying them up leaving insufficient for medical, care and key workers?

Definitely if you are looking at evidence you would be wise to check the date stamp on said evidence.

What do you think Science should do with new or emerging evidence?

And there you are mentioning this predicted death toll in the North. Who's prediction is that?