GAA Betting Issue - Who was in the right?

[Hardy]

Makes sense - I should have thought of that. I had heard of the 'gentleman's agreement' basis before, now that it's mentioned.

[supersarsfields]

Hardy you could be right. I know from working in Dunnes when ever it happened they always settled on the lower price. Now this might have been as much just to stop any hassle and save future business than due to Laws. But I think there's a difference between a marked price and an advertised price. If it was advertised up on a board or such as a way to entice people in then I think it has to be honoured.

[Hedley Lamarr]

Bookies are a law on to themselves......did a football accum and it clicked......thought I was collecting 700 quid for 5 accum only to be told that 3 of the prices were changes after kick off.....still paid 640 but haven't been back to that bookies since.

[Hardy]

A lad was telling me a story that happened to him a while ago. He went in to collect on a placepot. The payout should have been €750-ish, according to the results in the paper. They gave him a cheque for €550-odd, so he queried it. No, she says – 550 is right. So he said fine – must have been my mistake. When he went home, he checked the paper again – 750 was right. So he rang up PP head office and they agreed – the placepot at that meeting was paying 750 – go back into the shop and tell them to ring head office for confirmation.

So he goes into the shop and she says grand – give me back that cheque and I'll write you a new one. After a while, she comes out from the office – sorry, that's actually a losing bet. The horse in the fifth race was fourth and that race only pays on three places!

Never, ever give money back to a bookie!

(Sorry LS, but in this gentleman's agreement, we do expect the bookies to be gentlemen but it's hard for a punter to live up to that standard).

[ludermor]

an advertised price is not enforceable as its not an 'offer' but an invitation to treat. dont ask me to go into it as its about all i can remember from law in college

[Billys Boots]

all bets fall under the category of "gentlemans agreements" in the eyes of the law

I've never heard a better rationale for never, ever betting again.  Thanks LS.   

[Bord na Mona man]

The minor corrective action taken by the odds compiler after the bet was struck means it could hardly be considered a palpable error.

Also, 8/15 is not really the sort of price you give for a handicap.
I presume however, in order to run with the "palpable error" cover story, the bookie has to claim that they got the odds wrong rather than the handicap margin?

Getting the handicap margin wrong smacks of someone incorrectly estimating the prowess of the teams, claiming the odds were wrong can more easily be put down to a clerical error.

[gerrykeegan]

In view of the fact the checked the price at HO, the know who you are, they know who you work for, they know they fucked up and you took advantage of it, and they are saying f**k You!

[Lecale2]

In Lone Sharks case I would start a small claim procedure (is there a ROI equivalent?) and see what PP do then. With legal costs the way they are they should payout very quickly.

How can you start a small claims procedure when it is legally considered a gentleman's agreement? The Sporting Life used to run an arbitration service that most bookies agreed to be bound by. Is that still operating?

[oneflewoverthecuckoonest]

?

[Lecale2]

 

[Lecale2]

I think you'll find I'm right.

[rootthemout]

loneshark i believe you were shafted,do you think pp aren't offering you 8/11 because the local bookie knows you and who you work for?noticed in my local bookies in armagh on saturday after i had done my bet at the bottom of the coupon in small print,prices subject to flucuation,never have seen this on any soccer coupon earlier in the year,are bookies deciding when teams line out and depending on how much money they taken on a certain team what odds they pay now on the gaa matchs?

[deiseach]

Is this the same Paddy Power that loves to trumpet being caught out over things like, say, who shot Mr Burns? Lone Shark's mistake was not putting the bet on something like the possibility of Frankie Dettori tearing the arse of his jodhpurs when performing his dismount.

[Lone Shark]

Lone Shark you price up for Ladbrokes, thank you for your blunders last week in the Ring Cup. One complaint, a friend in Carlow wanted a 1000 double on Carlow and Kerry last Saturday morning and after the lady teller spent what seemed an age on the phone he was offered a 100 double at the prices, which he declined in disgust, you can check this out. You were miles out on your price on the Kerry game and my pal felt Carlow deserved favouritism due to home advantage. You make few mistakes, these were exceptions. When punters find the exceptions we cannot get a decent bet on. So tell us all please how much are you willing to accommodate in a single bet in a single office via Ladbrokes. You have joke prices up at this moment for this weeks Ring games, when you put the correct prices up and say you chalk Meath up at 4/9 to beat Mayo, if that is the price range are you willing to lay 9000 to 4000 or is Ladbrokes policy not to take proper bets. Let me know what you are willing to lay on a 4/9 shot on these smaller competitions.
One last point your odds at Ladbrokes on no goalscorer markets are a disgrace at the moment. Last weekend you priced Donegal Tyrone no goal at 9/4 when it was freely available at 7/2 and 4/1 with every other bookie. This weekend you go 100/30 no goal in the Derry Monaghan game, i can get 9/2 with Powers and 5/1 with others, likewise 4/1 no goal with you Galway and Leitrim when 6/1 and 5/1 with others. The true statistical odds on no goal in a football championship game taken over the last three years is 6/1, ie 1 in 7 games no goals. A few years ago Ladbrokes offered value in this market now they do not want to field any bets, are you a coward on this particular market?.

Some posers for you to answer Lone Shark, condolences on being wrongly short changed by Paddy Power.    

Right, let's take this on head on.

I deliberated long and hard last week on whether to do the Christy Ring cup or not. The formlines with these teams are very dodgy, and I knew well in pricing that there would be people out there - like yourself - who know way more about the teams involved than I did. I'm confident on the stuff I do, but I did not think for a minute that I would make money pricing up those games. However some bookies like to market themselves as the punters friend with lots of smiling faces and money back offers as long as you bet on markets with 150% over-round, I honestly think that the punters out there appreciate being able to bet on stuff that matters to them and that if I consistently try to price this stuff I will win people over. I priced up the matches, and due to not knowing about the Brick coming back on board for Kerry, I was way out - you are correct. However this is partially the cost of me being the only one willing to price these things up.

However - I am aware that I have 200 shops all across Ireland, so for markets like that, my instructions are to take nothing bigger than a punters average stake - or alternatively a small bet if the punter is unknown once you go into a shop, because if I was to lay €1000 on a bet like that, the guy could then go down the road and have the same bet in another shop. I'd love to believe that the info would make it's way back to me, but it doesn't - it should, but it doesn't, and I have to live with that.

So the answer is simple - get on the phone. That way the bet will be asked to me for clearance, and I'll give a reasonable wager - at least a monkey in that case - and then cut the price accordingly. There is no market on these games, and while I would love to call myself informed on lower level hurling in Ireland, I'll be honest and say that I have not attended a Ring or Rackard Cup game in my life and will probably never get time to. So this has to be the way.

My no goalscorer markets are a disgrace in that you want to bet on it and I'm a short price. Well then go to the bookie who's a bigger price! I've done my sums, you contend that I'm wrong, so keep backing the price I'm bigger on and we'll see who wins in the long run. This week I'm 4/7 Galway, 4/1 No goal and 11/4 Leitrim - an over-round of 110%, which I think is eminently reasonable. If my price on no goal is too short by a big margin, my price on one or both of the teams will be too long - surely that's where you punt then?

As a discerning punter, I've no doubt the last thing you want to do is shut out a bookie who has an opinion and prices accordingly. If I was copying Powers price for each team but then cutting the no goal price and not giving it back elsewhere I could see your grievance, but I suspect here the issue is that you were getting value on this bet previously and now you aren't. (And you're right with you're one in seven, the difference is that if you filter out all the turkey shoots or games involving no-defence teams like Down, Offaly or Roscommon it changes dramatically)

As for the Ring Cup games, my willingness to lay will improve greatly as the competition goes on and I have some real non-league form to go by. With all the transfers this year it was particularly tricky, but I will get better. The 1/100 that's up at the moment is a glitch - I sent them over blank with the prices to be filled in this evening and the eejits went and did that - I'm getting on it. If I choose to go 4/9 on Meath this week, you'll get about 400 or so on in a shop and around two grand on over the phone - if I go that price. It'll be lay to lose a bar or so on the phone. More as the competition progresses, as I said.

I hope this covers everything - all comments always welcome.