Standard of Refs

[Main Street]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

[Rossfan]

"Blowing for foul play when appropriate"
In other words a Ref  deciding to ignore some fouls while giving frees for others?
So you agree with Milltown then?

[Milltown Row2]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

[trueblue1234]

"Blowing for foul play when appropriate"
In other words a Ref  deciding to ignore some fouls while giving frees for others?
So you agree with Milltown then?

Any intentional contact with an opposition player, if not a shoulder is a foul. Do you want a foul called for every bit of illegal contact?  The game would be unwatchable. There's no point claiming fouls are black and white.  Watch any game and most defenders will have a hand on their marker while waiting on the ball. We're not expecting refs to call all these but they are technically a foul. But if that changes into dragging/ holding then we do expect it. That's why it's so hard to ref a gaa game.
The ref absolutely has to make calls based on severity of the foul. There is no point claiming otherwise.

[guevara]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

[guevara]

The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?

Jesus Christ Lad!  Dropping or fumbling the ball is not a bounce.

[smort]

The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?

Commonsense we say it wasn't a free out. But then there is nothing in the rules about common sense. If a bounce only pertains to situations where the ball returns to the hands, then did geaney actually throw the ball to the ground, and it should have been a free out for throwing the ball??

I jest

[Rossfan]

Definition of bounce page 107 T.O.

PS if every intentional contact is a foul per rules then change the rules if enforcing them would make a game unwatchable.

[Mike Tyson]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

Lol

[trueblue1234]

Definition of bounce page 107 T.O.

PS if every intentional contact is a foul per rules then change the rules if enforcing them would make a game unwatchable.

That's the issue. Change it to what, that would eliminate the grey areas? It would be near impossible to write it up. Whether we like it or not, common sense comes into it when reffing a game. Ideally that wouldn't be the case, but given the complexity of the game, we just have to allow the ref a certain leeway. And they're never getting them all right.

[Norf Tyrone]

The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?

It is on page 96 of the rules (https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/vybckve2iipp56xmjhqd.pdf)

"For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on return to his
hand(s) again."

[Saffrongael]

The referee has to apply his interpretation of the rules at times as the rules are vague.
We were discussing the double bounce for the Kerry goal on the Antrim thread. The belief is that a ball has only been bounced if it returns to the player's hands. Where have we got that from as it's not mentioned in the rules?

It is on page 96 of the rules (https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/vybckve2iipp56xmjhqd.pdf)

"For a player who has caught
the ball to play the ball against
the ground with his hand(s)
and to catch it on return to his
hand(s) again."

Spotters badge for Norf Tyrone

[Milltown Row2]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

I'd say that if me and you sat down to do a rules test that I'd come out on top, I'd say if Gough and me sat down to do a rules test, he'd better my score, any ref that is intercounty they have to get 95% I think, club refs 85%

I've played the game, both codes well into my 40's from juvenile to senior so I'm fairly confident on the game, you said he did not consult his umpires, how do you know? These guys are on a live feed and speaking to their umpires/linesmen flat out throughout the game, but you know better?

You are trying to apply black and white, its not like that, and if you played the game, you'd understand that. Everyone knows the rules when they goggle it

[guevara]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

I'd say that if me and you sat down to do a rules test that I'd come out on top, I'd say if Gough and me sat down to do a rules test, he'd better my score, any ref that is intercounty they have to get 95% I think, club refs 85%

I've played the game, both codes well into my 40's from juvenile to senior so I'm fairly confident on the game, you said he did not consult his umpires, how do you know? These guys are on a live feed and speaking to their umpires/linesmen flat out throughout the game, but you know better?

You are trying to apply black and white, its not like that, and if you played the game, you'd understand that. Everyone knows the rules when they goggle it

Nice assumptions there, but you are avoiding the elephant in the room. Should McCarthy have been on the pitch? Did he influence the outcome of the game by remaining on the pitch?

If the answer to the first question is no then Gough f*cked up, regardless or not if he would better either you or me in some rules test.

On your second point about constant communication with his fellow officials, you and I both know that if we were a Kerry player on Sunday and that was the only decision he actively went to seek opinion from The Umpires, you would be livid. Costello strike was pretty obvious as was McCarthy's numerous yellow card offences.

So whether you like it or not, knowing the rulebook inside out and applying it fairly and consistently are two very different things.

[Milltown Row2]

Why is it one ref makes them work for a free, and another was giving frees for very littikr in the semi, it's either a free or its not.

According to MR2, the ref was correct when he called a foul in one incident of foul play and still correct when he doesn't call a foul in a similar  or even worse incident of foul play, because apparently it wasn't foul play when the ref decides it wasn't a foul. Or the last resort excuse, it wasn't foul play because of the peculiar viewing angle.

Regardless, a GAA ref  has a mammoth task to ref championship games, I 100% favour having 2 refs  say from group stage onward. There's usually an experience ref  lingering on the sideline whose only duty is to inform the mentors of what's what. I couldn't care less if the 2 refs slightly differed on their application of the rules. Eventually they will end up performing in unison like those synchronized swimmers.
For my money Coldrick was the best at letting a game roll with the punches and blowing up for foul play when appropriate, definitely the best for an Ulster free for all final.

If ref'ing was so simple, as in how everyone here knows better and how it should be applied, then why are we having these discussions?

2 Ref's? f**k me! Clubs struggle to put forward one referee, the fall out rate after completing the course is nearly 50% after the first year, main reason is gobshites either hanging over the fence or on the pitch telling the ref he's a useless cnut!

Some people haven't the first clue of the actual rules, and still questioning the rules when they are explained, As for Sunday's game I haven't seen it on TV, watching it on my phone isn't the same, was raining too which didnt help, I'll watch the game back, as I said earlier

Plenty of Referees haven't a clue on the rules either!  The problem a lot of the time is Refs apply their own interpretation of the rules. Take Sunday for example David Gough influenced the game by not applying the rules of the game consistently.
McCarthy should not have been on the pitch & it could be argued that he allowed Dublin away with overly aggressive late hits (McCarthy, Smalls) & let Costello away with throwing a punch.

If you have played the game you will realise his call to overturn the Clifford free was a cop out. Why did he not consult his umpires on the other decisions?

There is no consistency from game to game and as a neutral it appears The Dubs seem to come out on the right side of these inconsistent performances in the big games.

I'd say that if me and you sat down to do a rules test that I'd come out on top, I'd say if Gough and me sat down to do a rules test, he'd better my score, any ref that is intercounty they have to get 95% I think, club refs 85%

I've played the game, both codes well into my 40's from juvenile to senior so I'm fairly confident on the game, you said he did not consult his umpires, how do you know? These guys are on a live feed and speaking to their umpires/linesmen flat out throughout the game, but you know better?

You are trying to apply black and white, its not like that, and if you played the game, you'd understand that. Everyone knows the rules when they goggle it

Nice assumptions there, but you are avoiding the elephant in the room. Should McCarthy have been on the pitch? Did he influence the outcome of the game by remaining on the pitch?

If the answer to the first question is no then Gough f*cked up, regardless or not if he would better either you or me in some rules test.

On your second point about constant communication with his fellow officials, you and I both know that if we were a Kerry player on Sunday and that was the only decision he actively went to seek opinion from The Umpires, you would be livid. Costello strike was pretty obvious as was McCarthy's numerous yellow card offences.

So whether you like it or not, knowing the rulebook inside out and applying it fairly and consistently are two very different things.

Are you saying he wasn't talking to his umpires? I've said they use an open mic and do talk to their linesmen and umpires, for some reason you felt they weren't I'm assuming then you had a listening device during the match that told you that?

As I've said I would need to watch the game properly as oppose to watching while dandering through London and on a train, also, he didn't call it and didn't do it to piss you off, or because he was the captain and didn't want to annoy him on his big day!