Shell to Sea

[Declan]

A Couple of guards having the craic, big deal, more money for the tax payer to pay for this

Are you for real? Having the craic joking about raping somebody is not remotely within the bounds of any standards. 

[the Deel Rover]

Gardaí alleged to have joked about threatening to rape Corrib protesters
Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 07:24 AM


A senior officer from outside the Mayo region has been appointed to examine remarks alleged to have been made by two Gardaí about two women who were arrested in Co Mayo last week.

The women were arrested for public order offences during a protest near the controversial Corrib gas pipeline route last Thursday.

It has been alleged that the gardaí were heard joking about threatening to deport and rape one of the women who had refused to give her name to officers.

The alleged remarks were recorded on a video camera which had been taken from the women and which was left running while the gardaí travelled to Belmullet garda station.

Dublin Shell to Sea spokesperson Caoimhe Kerrins said: "This is shocking and extremely serious. It is very frightening for those of us involved in the campaign.

"Gardaí are the people that women are supposed to trust when they need to report a rape. Gardaí are supposed to be responsible for bringing rapists to justice."


Heard this tape on the radio this morning - What a shower

its all about civil liberties and human rights, did you not know (ordinary workers rights from been stopped from doing a decent days work been blocked by these people does not matter it seems) . A Couple of guards having the craic, big deal, more money for the tax payer to pay for this.

The most ironic thing is that North Mayo is covered in "end electronic harrassment in Mayo now" or something similar. Its funny electronic surveillence is ok if it serves the shell to sea purpose. This Shell to Sea outfit are now seen to be what they really are, small minded,bash a guard gang and becoming more and more irrelevant each day.

Have you heard the transcript? If so, how on earth can you describe it as 'a couple of guards having the craic'? It is disgraceful behaviour and leaving aside whatever side you tend to think is right or wrong in the overall context, this incident on its own is frightening and degrading. I hope they get their papers.

i'd say they will

[An Gaeilgoir]

A Couple of guards having the craic, big deal, more money for the tax payer to pay for this

Are you for real? Having the craic joking about raping somebody is not remotely within the bounds of any standards.

Just saw the transcript now. Didn't realise it involved suggestinons of rape. Apologies.

[Shamrock Shore]

Those Gardaí should be fired - full stop.

A pair of goons.

[Hound]

Hound, it seems from my link above that Capital Allowances are available against 'profits for tax purposes' on Plant and Machinery among other things, surely that is a large part of the €3 Billion?

...  its pretty much simply tax on whatver their net profit is. And they don't pay tax until they make a net profit.

So is net profit defined as profit net of costs INCLUDING exploration costs?

Just seen this now Hardy.
Yes, net profit after all their costs including exploration costs.

Speaking at a panel discussion in Dublin last December, Brian O'Cathain, who was Managing Director of Enterprise Energy Ireland when that company was the developer of the Corrib project, predicted that the project would never pay tax: "The problem with Corrib is that, because of the very long delay ... the project will never go into profit. The impact of that is that Corrib will never pay tax."

And of course this is correct, they will only pay tax if they make a profit!! Just like every other company out there. And the protests have added hugely to the costs incurred.

Oil/gas exploration is a big gamble. They may or may not make a profit, and they could make a huge loss. I don't think it would have made any sense for the Irish government to do this alone and run the risk of massive losses.

Personally I still believe Corrib will make a profit and the exchequer will benefit to the tune of 25% of the profit, with no risk having been taken. That's a good deal for us IMO.

[Declan]

I don't think it would have made any sense for the Irish government to do this alone and run the risk of massive losses

Would it run into the 90 billion or so the banks have cost us?

[muppet]

Personally I still believe Corrib will make a profit and the exchequer will benefit to the tune of 25% of the profit, with no risk having being taken. That's a good deal for us IMO.

There are two halves to this.

1) we gave away the gas for free and continue to do so;
2) the company who get to benefit from this remarkable give-away will pay tax if and when they make a profit;

Shell may and hopefully will give some badly needed revenue but giving away such an enormous asset for free is idiotic and treasonous. Some of us think we detect the whiff of brown paper from the whole thing.

We could still impose more taxes on Shell if we wish.

[Main Street]

Hound, it seems from my link above that Capital Allowances are available against 'profits for tax purposes' on Plant and Machinery among other things, surely that is a large part of the €3 Billion?

...  its pretty much simply tax on whatver their net profit is. And they don't pay tax until they make a net profit.

So is net profit defined as profit net of costs INCLUDING exploration costs?

Just seen this now Hardy.
Yes, net profit after all their costs including exploration costs.

Including writing off all exploration costs anywhere in Irish seas for the past 25 years.

Oil/gas exploration is a big gamble. They may or may not make a profit, and they could make a huge loss. I don't think it would have made any sense for the Irish government to do this alone and run the risk of massive losses.

Why do you think it was an either/or option?

Personally I still believe Corrib will make a profit and the exchequer will benefit to the tune of 25% of the profit, with no risk having been taken. That's a good deal for us IMO.

Maybe it appears a good deal when you consider that Ray Burke and associate gombeens were involved.

[Hardy]

Personally I still believe Corrib will make a profit and the exchequer will benefit to the tune of 25% of the profit, with no risk having being taken. That's a good deal for us IMO.

There are two halves to this.

1) we gave away the gas for free and continue to do so;

We didn't. Clearly, the tax on profits, if any, is the price we charged. If Shell can't make a profit, you can be damn sure an Irish semi-state set up to bring in the gas wouldn't. Think FÁS, 42 days holidays for public servants, restrictive practices etc., etc., etc.

2) the company who get to benefit from this remarkable give-away will pay tax if and when they make a profit;

They should do it for no benefit? They should pay tax on losses?

We could still impose more taxes on Shell if we wish.

Absolutely. We'd need to be wise about it, though, and not deter other companies from getting involved with the Irish state if it gets a reputation for changing the rules after the exploration results prove favourable.

[muppet]

Hardy, let's try this.

I give you my gold mine which has €1,000,000 worth of gold in it.

You build, train etc and extract the gold.

If you declare a profit you give me 25% of the tax on the profit (say €100,000 - I get €25,000). This is the best case scenario.
If you don't I get nothing.

Either way I lose all of my natural resources.

Meanwhile the two agents who orchestrated the deal on my behalf include one known corrupt official and another who has a remarkable gift for picking horses.

IMHO it would be better if we left it there for a non-corrupt industrious generation to come along. But of course if that happens now the gas will be gone.

[Mayo4Sam]

Those Gardaí should be fired - full stop.

A pair of goons.

There's nothing to prove it was the two guards on the tape, let's face it it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it's a S2S set-up, bad press got and it mite prove to be nothing.

Just putting it out there, if it is the two guards then it's red card time for them. I would have some sympathy for them, we've all made jokes that aren't meant for public consumption but they have to accept their punishment.

But like I say, it mite not be all it seems

[muppet]

Those Gardaí should be fired - full stop.

A pair of goons.

There's nothing to prove it was the two guards on the tape, let's face it it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it's a S2S set-up, bad press got and it mite prove to be nothing.

Just putting it out there, if it is the two guards then it's red card time for them. I would have some sympathy for them, we've all made jokes that aren't meant for public consumption but they have to accept their punishment.

But like I say, it mite not be all it seems

They will not and should not be fired.

Any action taken against them probably would be struck out as they hardly gave their consent to have the recording broadcast which is required by law in Ireland.

[mylestheslasher]

Those Gardaí should be fired - full stop.

A pair of goons.

There's nothing to prove it was the two guards on the tape, let's face it it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it's a S2S set-up, bad press got and it mite prove to be nothing.

Just putting it out there, if it is the two guards then it's red card time for them. I would have some sympathy for them, we've all made jokes that aren't meant for public consumption but they have to accept their punishment.

But like I say, it mite not be all it seems

They will not and should not be fired.

Any action taken against them probably would be struck out as they hardly gave their consent to have the recording broadcast which is required by law in Ireland.

I have no doubt they'll get away with having a good old joke about raping women while wearing their Garda uniforms. What is he even more worrying is that these 2 gardai sounded like the had the maturity of 10 year olds, how do such clowns qualify to be gardai??

On the radio on the way home a woman from some rape crisis group noted that the biggest fall out could be that women who were raped might now not associate Gardai as being a group they could go to report such an attack.

[ludermor]

Those Gardaí should be fired - full stop.

A pair of goons.

There's nothing to prove it was the two guards on the tape, let's face it it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it's a S2S set-up, bad press got and it mite prove to be nothing.

Just putting it out there, if it is the two guards then it's red card time for them. I would have some sympathy for them, we've all made jokes that aren't meant for public consumption but they have to accept their punishment.

But like I say, it mite not be all it seems

If it was false the Guard PR machine woul dhave cut this off immediately

[Declan]

I have no doubt they'll get away with having a good old joke about raping women while wearing their Garda uniforms. What is he even more worrying is that these 2 gardai sounded like the had the maturity of 10 year olds, how do such clowns qualify to be gardai??

On the radio on the way home a woman from some rape crisis group noted that the biggest fall out could be that women who were raped might now not associate Gardai as being a group they could go to report such an attack.

In my experience they represented most of the people I've had the "pleasure" of interacting with from the Guards.Your second point is well made and I wonder what the GRA have to say about the matter