Shell to Sea

[muppet]

I have no financial qualifications whatsoever so the following should be taken with all the relevant caveats:

http://www.idaireland.com/news-media/publications/library-publications/ida-ireland-publications/IDA%20Tax%20Brochure%202010.pdf

From IDA Ireland, tax info for foreign investors.


Tax Relief Available
Interest
Interest on borrowings used for a trade or business is tax-deductible on an accruals basis, subject to some exceptions. Interest on borrowings used for non-trading purposes, for example, for the acquisition of shares in another company, may be deductible on a paid basis, subject to certain conditions.
Capital Allowances
Generally, with the exception of certain intellectual property (see page 9) and leasing taxpayers, accounting depreciation is not deductible in calculating business profits for tax purposes. Capital allowances (or tax depreciation) are, however, available in relation to expenditure on:
—   Plant and Machinery
—   Expenditure on plant and machinery, fixtures and fittings, and certain software, etc., may be written off at 12.5% per annum on a straight-line basis over an 8-year period. —   Expenditure on scientific equipment is eligible for a 100% year one capital allowance.
—   The cost of energy efficient equipment is granted at 100% year one capital allowance (in the year of the expenditure) as part of the Irish Government's Green Initiative.

Eligible equipment includes:
—   motors and drivers;
—   systems lighting;
—   Building Energy Management Systems (BEMS);
—   Information Communications Technology (ICT);
—   heating and electricity provision;
—   heating ventilation and air-conditioning control systems;
—   electric and alternative-fuel vehicles;
—   refrigeration and cooling systems;
—   electro-mechanical systems;
—   catering and hospitality equipment.

[Hound]

You said: "If Shell make a profit, 25% of any profit will be paid in tax." The €3 Billion will be deducted from this tax, that is what I meant by written off.

The €3 billion will not be deducted from the tax!

Any of the accountants here care to explain the practice of writing off overheads against tax?

"Writing off overheads against tax" is a complete misnomer.

Shell will pay tax on its profits. To calculate the profits, its basically income less expenses.
25% of its profits will be paid in tax. There's no further offset for expenses incurred as they've already been taken into account when calculating the profits.

[muppet]

You said: "If Shell make a profit, 25% of any profit will be paid in tax." The €3 Billion will be deducted from this tax, that is what I meant by written off.

The €3 billion will not be deducted from the tax!

Any of the accountants here care to explain the practice of writing off overheads against tax?

"Writing off overheads against tax" is a complete misnomer.

Shell will pay tax on its profits. To calculate the profits, its basically income less expenses.
25% of its profits will be paid in tax. There's no further offset for expenses incurred as they've already been taken into account when calculating the profits.

Any chance of a link or something?

[Hound]

You said: "If Shell make a profit, 25% of any profit will be paid in tax." The €3 Billion will be deducted from this tax, that is what I meant by written off.

The €3 billion will not be deducted from the tax!

Any of the accountants here care to explain the practice of writing off overheads against tax?

"Writing off overheads against tax" is a complete misnomer.

Shell will pay tax on its profits. To calculate the profits, its basically income less expenses.
25% of its profits will be paid in tax. There's no further offset for expenses incurred as they've already been taken into account when calculating the profits.

Any chance of a link or something?

Feck's sake muppet, its not rocket science!
Every single company out there, in every line of business, pays tax on its profits. Its profits are income less expenses. But the tax rate for petroleum companies is twice that of normal trading companies.

[muppet]

In the interests of balance there are convincing cases made for both arguments made here: http://www.politics.ie/environment/5385-corrib-gas-field-property-irish-people.html

Hound, it seems from my link above that Capital Allowances are available against 'profits for tax purposes' on Plant and Machinery among other things, surely that is a large part of the €3 Billion?

Like I said I am not qualified to give an informed opinion on this stuff.

[Hound]

Hound, it seems from my link above that Capital Allowances are available against 'profits for tax purposes' on Plant and Machinery among other things, surely that is a large part of the €3 Billion?

Generally expenditure that qualifies for capital allowances isn't as good as ordinary expenditure, because you only get the tax relief over 8 years rather than in the year you incurred it.
There are special rules for petroleum companies, so capital allowances don't really apply. So its pretty much simply tax on whatver their net profit is. And they don't pay tax until they make a net profit.

I wonder will the new government give any though to increasing the 25% tax rate?

Its worth remembering that when the petroleum tax rate of 25% was brought it, the standard rate was 40% or 43%, and the 25% rate was brought in to encourage exploration activity. But it remained the same as the standard rate reduced.

So perhaps increasing the 25% rate would impact on future exploration activities. I know there is other tests being carried out on the west coast in the hope of finding another Corrib.

[Hardy]

Hound, it seems from my link above that Capital Allowances are available against 'profits for tax purposes' on Plant and Machinery among other things, surely that is a large part of the €3 Billion?

...  its pretty much simply tax on whatver their net profit is. And they don't pay tax until they make a net profit.

So is net profit defined as profit net of costs INCLUDING exploration costs?

[ludermor]

News Release

Issued by Dublin Shell to SeaFriday, March 4th, 2011For immediate release

CORRIB 'WILL NEVER PAY TAX', SAYS PROJECT'S FORMER MD



-- Varadkar 'clueless' over tax regime for gas & oil fields --



The Corrib Gas project will never pay tax, according to the former MD of the lead company in the project. This contradicts the claim made this week by Leo Varadkar TD that the State "stands to gain at least 25 per cent of profits from Corrib and the sooner the gas is brought ashore, the sooner that money can be used to fund essential services."

Speaking at a panel discussion in Dublin last December, Brian O'Cathain, who was Managing Director of Enterprise Energy Ireland when that company was the developer of the Corrib project, predicted that the project would never pay tax: "The problem with Corrib is that, because of the very long delay ... the project will never go into profit. The impact of that is that Corrib will never pay tax."

(Audio clip: http://bit.ly/fk6LRv)



Dublin Shell to Sea spokesperson Caoimhe Kerins said today: "Leo Varadkar is either misleading the public or else he is clueless. It is important for people to understand that under Ireland's bizarre licensing terms, the tax revenue from gas and oil fields will be much lower than 25% of its revenue, or even of its real profits."



"Corrib will probably pay little or no tax, for at least two reasons. Firstly, the licensing terms introduced by Ray Burke and Bertie Ahern mean that the developer can write off 100% of costs incurred over the past 25 years, including the cost of other unsuccessful wells, before declaring profits.



"Secondly, the disastrous way in which the Government has handled the project, encouraging Shell to force through an experimental inland refinery against the wishes of the local community, has led to enormous delays. This has meant lower profits and thus lower tax revenue."



"Had the Corrib project been developed in a safe manner, according to international best practice, with the gas processed before passing through inhabited areas, the gas would have come ashore years ago, and then some of the tax Mr Varadkar speaks of would have been paid. But of course, even then this would have been far lower than 25% of the value of the gas which the company sells to Irish consumers."



Varadkar, who looks set to become Minister for Energy and Natural Resources in the new government, appears to misunderstand Ireland's current tax arrangements for oil and gas fields. Speaking on Tuesday, he defended outgoing Minister Pat Carey's decision to sign, on the day of the general election, key consents for the last section of the Corrib gas pipeline. Varadkar said: "The State stands to gain at least 25 per cent of profits from Corrib and the sooner the gas is brought ashore, the sooner that money can be used to fund essential services."

ENDS

[Declan]

Gardaí alleged to have joked about threatening to rape Corrib protesters
Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 07:24 AM


A senior officer from outside the Mayo region has been appointed to examine remarks alleged to have been made by two Gardaí about two women who were arrested in Co Mayo last week.

The women were arrested for public order offences during a protest near the controversial Corrib gas pipeline route last Thursday.

It has been alleged that the gardaí were heard joking about threatening to deport and rape one of the women who had refused to give her name to officers.

The alleged remarks were recorded on a video camera which had been taken from the women and which was left running while the gardaí travelled to Belmullet garda station.

Dublin Shell to Sea spokesperson Caoimhe Kerrins said: "This is shocking and extremely serious. It is very frightening for those of us involved in the campaign.

"Gardaí are the people that women are supposed to trust when they need to report a rape. Gardaí are supposed to be responsible for bringing rapists to justice."


Heard this tape on the radio this morning - What a shower

[the Deel Rover]

Gardaí alleged to have joked about threatening to rape Corrib protesters
Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 07:24 AM


A senior officer from outside the Mayo region has been appointed to examine remarks alleged to have been made by two Gardaí about two women who were arrested in Co Mayo last week.

The women were arrested for public order offences during a protest near the controversial Corrib gas pipeline route last Thursday.

It has been alleged that the gardaí were heard joking about threatening to deport and rape one of the women who had refused to give her name to officers.

The alleged remarks were recorded on a video camera which had been taken from the women and which was left running while the gardaí travelled to Belmullet garda station.

Dublin Shell to Sea spokesperson Caoimhe Kerrins said: "This is shocking and extremely serious. It is very frightening for those of us involved in the campaign.

"Gardaí are the people that women are supposed to trust when they need to report a rape. Gardaí are supposed to be responsible for bringing rapists to justice."


Heard this tape on the radio this morning - What a shower

did they play the recording on the radio this morning Declan ?

[An Gaeilgoir]

Gardaí alleged to have joked about threatening to rape Corrib protesters
Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 07:24 AM


A senior officer from outside the Mayo region has been appointed to examine remarks alleged to have been made by two Gardaí about two women who were arrested in Co Mayo last week.

The women were arrested for public order offences during a protest near the controversial Corrib gas pipeline route last Thursday.

It has been alleged that the gardaí were heard joking about threatening to deport and rape one of the women who had refused to give her name to officers.

The alleged remarks were recorded on a video camera which had been taken from the women and which was left running while the gardaí travelled to Belmullet garda station.

Dublin Shell to Sea spokesperson Caoimhe Kerrins said: "This is shocking and extremely serious. It is very frightening for those of us involved in the campaign.

"Gardaí are the people that women are supposed to trust when they need to report a rape. Gardaí are supposed to be responsible for bringing rapists to justice."


Heard this tape on the radio this morning - What a shower

its all about civil liberties and human rights, did you not know (ordinary workers rights from been stopped from doing a decent days work been blocked by these people does not matter it seems) . A Couple of guards having the craic, big deal, more money for the tax payer to pay for this.

The most ironic thing is that North Mayo is covered in "end electronic harrassment in Mayo now" or something similar. Its funny electronic surveillence is ok if it serves the shell to sea purpose. This Shell to Sea outfit are now seen to be what they really are, small minded,bash a guard gang and becoming more and more irrelevant each day.

[Declan]

did they play the recording on the radio this morning Declan ?

Yep on Newstalk:
http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/49/tuesday/2/popup Around the 40 mins mark

[ludermor]

http://www.wsm.ie/c/garda-corrib-rape-pipeline

This is pretty damning. There is a link to the audio and an explanation as to how the protesters got the recording.

[ludermor]

Gardaí alleged to have joked about threatening to rape Corrib protesters
Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 07:24 AM


A senior officer from outside the Mayo region has been appointed to examine remarks alleged to have been made by two Gardaí about two women who were arrested in Co Mayo last week.

The women were arrested for public order offences during a protest near the controversial Corrib gas pipeline route last Thursday.

It has been alleged that the gardaí were heard joking about threatening to deport and rape one of the women who had refused to give her name to officers.

The alleged remarks were recorded on a video camera which had been taken from the women and which was left running while the gardaí travelled to Belmullet garda station.

Dublin Shell to Sea spokesperson Caoimhe Kerrins said: "This is shocking and extremely serious. It is very frightening for those of us involved in the campaign.

"Gardaí are the people that women are supposed to trust when they need to report a rape. Gardaí are supposed to be responsible for bringing rapists to justice."


Heard this tape on the radio this morning - What a shower

its all about civil liberties and human rights, did you not know (ordinary workers rights from been stopped from doing a decent days work been blocked by these people does not matter it seems) . A Couple of guards having the craic, big deal, more money for the tax payer to pay for this.

The most ironic thing is that North Mayo is covered in "end electronic harrassment in Mayo now" or something similar. Its funny electronic surveillence is ok if it serves the shell to sea purpose. This Shell to Sea outfit are now seen to be what they really are, small minded,bash a guard gang and becoming more and more irrelevant each day.

I wouldnt be on the side of the protestors on the vast majority of their views but i dont know to many people who jokes about rape when they are having the craic. Have a read through the link i had earlier, there wasnt much surveillence done it was the cops completely f**king up! ( provided of course that is what happened , i would not be surprised)

[RedandGreenSniper]

Gardaí alleged to have joked about threatening to rape Corrib protesters
Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 07:24 AM


A senior officer from outside the Mayo region has been appointed to examine remarks alleged to have been made by two Gardaí about two women who were arrested in Co Mayo last week.

The women were arrested for public order offences during a protest near the controversial Corrib gas pipeline route last Thursday.

It has been alleged that the gardaí were heard joking about threatening to deport and rape one of the women who had refused to give her name to officers.

The alleged remarks were recorded on a video camera which had been taken from the women and which was left running while the gardaí travelled to Belmullet garda station.

Dublin Shell to Sea spokesperson Caoimhe Kerrins said: "This is shocking and extremely serious. It is very frightening for those of us involved in the campaign.

"Gardaí are the people that women are supposed to trust when they need to report a rape. Gardaí are supposed to be responsible for bringing rapists to justice."


Heard this tape on the radio this morning - What a shower

its all about civil liberties and human rights, did you not know (ordinary workers rights from been stopped from doing a decent days work been blocked by these people does not matter it seems) . A Couple of guards having the craic, big deal, more money for the tax payer to pay for this.

The most ironic thing is that North Mayo is covered in "end electronic harrassment in Mayo now" or something similar. Its funny electronic surveillence is ok if it serves the shell to sea purpose. This Shell to Sea outfit are now seen to be what they really are, small minded,bash a guard gang and becoming more and more irrelevant each day.

Have you heard the transcript? If so, how on earth can you describe it as 'a couple of guards having the craic'? It is disgraceful behaviour and leaving aside whatever side you tend to think is right or wrong in the overall context, this incident on its own is frightening and degrading. I hope they get their papers.