Martin Guinness

[lawnseed]

it must be very annoying for you myles to see the shinners increase their share of the vote each time theres an election, and the two that are coming up will be no exception. voters want a caring society that puts people before cronies and banks. 

[Minder]

I cant see that there will ever be a truth commission, Gerry Adams has said he would be in favour of one. Course he would..........

[pintsofguinness]

I couldn't give a f**k if you listen to them or not - I know I don't.

Just because Sinn Fein call for investigations in to the murders by British Forces doesn't mean that those victims don't deserve justice.  Until the Brits are a lot more forthcoming I agree that we should not be welcoming their head of state to the 26 counties.

Agreed.
Disagree with the rest. I'm in favour of some sort of truth commission, if it could be arranged and if everyone signed up to it. I don't agree that, in the meantime, we should stop normal relations with our closest neighbour until they own up to everything their soldiers ever did here, particularly since those who were killing their soldiers and their civilian population  (together with anyone else who got in the way) refuse to do the same.

You say you want justice for the victims of state violence yet you wouldn't support investigations (proper investigations) in to those crimes?  Well, maybe, if Gerry Adams admitted to being in the IRA or some shite.

That doesn't make much sense unless of course you're not bothered about the victims of state violence getting justice at all.

Proper investigations like Saville? Sorry, we can't afford it. Like the HET? They're not having a huge amount of success, if you haven't noticed. They're under resourced, too much time has passed in many cases, witnesses have died, etc. Really the HET is just a comfort blanket for those who never got justice at the proper time. You either have a truth commission which everyone buys into, or you accept that things happened which are never going to be properly unravelled. I don't agree with the one sided approach advocated by people like Adams and Mcguinness, whereby the British force their soldiers to come forward and answer questions about their deeds, while the IRA issue a vague expression of regret for all their misdeeds, then tell everyone to move on and forget the past.

Excuses excuses excuses.
Where else would any victim's family be told that there will be no murder investigation as "we can't afford it". 

[Myles Na G.]

I couldn't give a f**k if you listen to them or not - I know I don't.

Just because Sinn Fein call for investigations in to the murders by British Forces doesn't mean that those victims don't deserve justice.  Until the Brits are a lot more forthcoming I agree that we should not be welcoming their head of state to the 26 counties.

Agreed.
Disagree with the rest. I'm in favour of some sort of truth commission, if it could be arranged and if everyone signed up to it. I don't agree that, in the meantime, we should stop normal relations with our closest neighbour until they own up to everything their soldiers ever did here, particularly since those who were killing their soldiers and their civilian population  (together with anyone else who got in the way) refuse to do the same.

You say you want justice for the victims of state violence yet you wouldn't support investigations (proper investigations) in to those crimes?  Well, maybe, if Gerry Adams admitted to being in the IRA or some shite.

That doesn't make much sense unless of course you're not bothered about the victims of state violence getting justice at all.

Proper investigations like Saville? Sorry, we can't afford it. Like the HET? They're not having a huge amount of success, if you haven't noticed. They're under resourced, too much time has passed in many cases, witnesses have died, etc. Really the HET is just a comfort blanket for those who never got justice at the proper time. You either have a truth commission which everyone buys into, or you accept that things happened which are never going to be properly unravelled. I don't agree with the one sided approach advocated by people like Adams and Mcguinness, whereby the British force their soldiers to come forward and answer questions about their deeds, while the IRA issue a vague expression of regret for all their misdeeds, then tell everyone to move on and forget the past.

Excuses excuses excuses.
Where else would any victim's family be told that there will be no murder investigation as "we can't afford it".

Saville wasn't a murder enquiry, it was a public enquiry. A simple murder enquiry is not sufficient to get to the bottom of events like Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy, Birmingham, Enniskillen, etc. Unfortunately, the cost of such enquiries is astonomical. We can't afford them, simple as that.

[andoireabu]

Myles

If there was a truth commission set up, and everyone signed up and someone asked Gerry was he in the IRA and he said no would you believe him?  A truth commission wouldn't matter a shite if people have something in their heads that they refuse to change their mind on, and I have a feeling you think Gerry was in the IRA, no matter what anyone says.   

[Minder]

Myles

If there was a truth commission set up, and everyone signed up and someone asked Gerry was he in the IRA and he said no would you believe him?  A truth commission wouldn't matter a shite if people have something in their heads that they refuse to change their mind on, and I have a feeling you think Gerry was in the IRA, no matter what anyone says.   

I think someone asking Gerry Adams if he was in the IRA would be the least of his problems if a truth commission was established.

[lawnseed]

darkley? or have you made up your mind

[pintsofguinness]

I couldn't give a f**k if you listen to them or not - I know I don't.

Just because Sinn Fein call for investigations in to the murders by British Forces doesn't mean that those victims don't deserve justice.  Until the Brits are a lot more forthcoming I agree that we should not be welcoming their head of state to the 26 counties.

Agreed.
Disagree with the rest. I'm in favour of some sort of truth commission, if it could be arranged and if everyone signed up to it. I don't agree that, in the meantime, we should stop normal relations with our closest neighbour until they own up to everything their soldiers ever did here, particularly since those who were killing their soldiers and their civilian population  (together with anyone else who got in the way) refuse to do the same.

You say you want justice for the victims of state violence yet you wouldn't support investigations (proper investigations) in to those crimes?  Well, maybe, if Gerry Adams admitted to being in the IRA or some shite.

That doesn't make much sense unless of course you're not bothered about the victims of state violence getting justice at all.

Proper investigations like Saville? Sorry, we can't afford it. Like the HET? They're not having a huge amount of success, if you haven't noticed. They're under resourced, too much time has passed in many cases, witnesses have died, etc. Really the HET is just a comfort blanket for those who never got justice at the proper time. You either have a truth commission which everyone buys into, or you accept that things happened which are never going to be properly unravelled. I don't agree with the one sided approach advocated by people like Adams and Mcguinness, whereby the British force their soldiers to come forward and answer questions about their deeds, while the IRA issue a vague expression of regret for all their misdeeds, then tell everyone to move on and forget the past.

Excuses excuses excuses.
Where else would any victim's family be told that there will be no murder investigation as "we can't afford it".

Saville wasn't a murder enquiry, it was a public enquiry. A simple murder enquiry is not sufficient to get to the bottom of events like Bloody Sunday, Ballymurphy, Birmingham, Enniskillen, etc. Unfortunately, the cost of such enquiries is astonomical. We can't afford them, simple as that.

Murder enquiry, public enquiry, whatever you want to call it - lets have them - hiding behind this "we can't afford them" is a great excuse.  I'd say a lot of them could be solved with the Brits opening up their records and telling the truth. 
Why would we want further enquiries in to Birmingham or Enniskillen? There were enquiries (proper ones) at the time, the government didn't spend their time rubbishing the good names of the victims with lies, brushing things under the carpet and covering their own backs.  Don't you see the difference or don't you want to?

[Myles Na G.]

Myles

If there was a truth commission set up, and everyone signed up and someone asked Gerry was he in the IRA and he said no would you believe him?  A truth commission wouldn't matter a shite if people have something in their heads that they refuse to change their mind on, and I have a feeling you think Gerry was in the IRA, no matter what anyone says.   

Do you think he wasn't?

[andoireabu]

Myles

If there was a truth commission set up, and everyone signed up and someone asked Gerry was he in the IRA and he said no would you believe him?  A truth commission wouldn't matter a shite if people have something in their heads that they refuse to change their mind on, and I have a feeling you think Gerry was in the IRA, no matter what anyone says.   

Do you think he wasn't?

I think there is a fairly good chance he was although that doesn't prove anything, i.e whether he was or not and IF he was what part he played in the things he is accused of.  You didn't answer my question

[Myles Na G.]

'Why would we want further enquiries in to Birmingham or Enniskillen? '

er...to find out who planted the bombs? To find out who ordered the planting of the bombs? What about an enquiry into the hunger strikes? Let's find out what deal was on the table and at what point. Lets uncover how many young men died needlessly without knowing that their demands had been met. What about an enquiry into the disappeared? Let's find out exactly what part Gerry Adams played in the abduction and murder of a mother of 10. What about an enquiry into the human bomb tactic? Let's find out if this was local innovation or whether it was approved at HQ by leading Shinners.

You want enquiries? Fine. But they can't all be one way.

[Myles Na G.]

Myles

If there was a truth commission set up, and everyone signed up and someone asked Gerry was he in the IRA and he said no would you believe him?  A truth commission wouldn't matter a shite if people have something in their heads that they refuse to change their mind on, and I have a feeling you think Gerry was in the IRA, no matter what anyone says.   

Do you think he wasn't?

I think there is a fairly good chance he was although that doesn't prove anything, i.e whether he was or not and IF he was what part he played in the things he is accused of.  You didn't answer my question

I think Gerry Adams was in the IRA because of what people say, people like Dolores Price and Brendan Hughes, people like Gerry Adams himself, in his writings as 'brownie' in Republican News. I think he was in the IRA because he was part of a high powered IRA delegation flown to London to negotiate with the British in the 70s. I think he was in the IRA because he was photographed in IRA uniform carrying an IRA volunteer's coffin.

[pintsofguinness]

'Why would we want further enquiries in to Birmingham or Enniskillen? '

er...to find out who planted the bombs? To find out who ordered the planting of the bombs? What about an enquiry into the hunger strikes? Let's find out what deal was on the table and at what point. Lets uncover how many young men died needlessly without knowing that their demands had been met. What about an enquiry into the disappeared? Let's find out exactly what part Gerry Adams played in the abduction and murder of a mother of 10. What about an enquiry into the human bomb tactic? Let's find out if this was local innovation or whether it was approved at HQ by leading Shinners.

You want enquiries? Fine. But they can't all be one way.

What do you mean all the one way?  This shouldn't be about one side or the other.
Innocent people were gunned down, set up and murdered by members of the British forces, those people who were suppose to uphold law and order and you're only interested in engaging in whataboutery. That speaks volumes about you.  As I said, there have already been investigations in to incidents like Enniskillen and Birmingham. 

[Myles Na G.]

'Why would we want further enquiries in to Birmingham or Enniskillen? '

er...to find out who planted the bombs? To find out who ordered the planting of the bombs? What about an enquiry into the hunger strikes? Let's find out what deal was on the table and at what point. Lets uncover how many young men died needlessly without knowing that their demands had been met. What about an enquiry into the disappeared? Let's find out exactly what part Gerry Adams played in the abduction and murder of a mother of 10. What about an enquiry into the human bomb tactic? Let's find out if this was local innovation or whether it was approved at HQ by leading Shinners.

You want enquiries? Fine. But they can't all be one way.

What do you mean all the one way?  This shouldn't be about one side or the other.
Innocent people were gunned down, set up and murdered by members of the British forces, those people who were suppose to uphold law and order and you're only interested in engaging in whataboutery. That speaks volumes about you.  As I said, there have already been investigations in to incidents like Enniskillen and Birmingham.

Are you satisfied with the standard of justice the victims of those events received?

[pintsofguinness]

No, by all means follow up should new evidence become available etc like police would with any other unsolved case. However I do think we should give priority to those victims who had never any investigation in to their deaths, just whitewash.