Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[sid waddell]

Calm down Sid.

Funny you say that because your arguing technique here and elsewhere on this board is reminiscent of a Harry Enfield sketch

[sid waddell]

Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose

[Franko]

Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak

You refused to deal with my points earlier

Now you've returned to the US Republican party logic of "we invaded in Germany, so invading Iraq is fine"

The logic that dismisses critical thinking and dismisses any complexity

The fact that you keep repeating this nonsense doesn't make it true.

It just highlights, again and again, your desperation for something, anything to validate your duplicity

That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

The logic is nonsense - like I say - the fact that you keep repeating it doesn't make it true

Shinnerbot - the standard vacuous go-to phrase for someone with no substantive argument to make

And followed by a flippant reference to the death of a child to score political points

How moral and principled of you

[Angelo]

I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.

Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.

You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK 

I clearly don't but we can see your contradictions loud and clear.

You continue to be the only poster here who justifies the murder of civilians, you have no credibility to moralise and pontificate as clearly you have the least respect for human right and social equality. The far right would love a guy with your values, you would make great bedfellows.

You've been justifying the murder of civilians as long as you've been as this board

I haven't justified the murder of a single civilian in the conflict

Sinn Fein are the party of rehabilitating civilian murder

And Nazi collaboration, incidentally

And the Free State has been ruled by two establishment parties since its inception

1) A party who offered its condonlences to the Nazi Party on the death of Hitler
2) A party with its origins in far right fascism and Franco supporters

FF/FG held a bombastic military display to celebrate the deaths of hundreds of civilian murders this year, you think that was fine yet you are outraged about SF commemorating their war.

The problem for you is that you don't have a leg to stand on morally. You can put on as big a theatrical display of sanctimony as you please, but there's plenty of posters here to show your contradictions and faux outrage for the complete facade it is. When that happens, we see how nasty and malicious you can get. We saw your disgusting comments on Sean Browne, we see how you have become the defender of the far right blueshirts. Your real values are beginning to manifest because like most bigots, you don't like your hatred and intolerant views being challenged.

FG have their own vile history as regards as regards fascism

FF's extension of condolence to Germany on the death of Hitler was outrageous

No arguments there - I despise both parties and both of those things would be contributory reasons as to why I could never vote for them

However Sinn Fein's dalliance with Naziism is much more recent and therefore much more relevant

The current leader of Sinn Fein glorifies a Nazi collaborator

She has serious questions to answer about this

Remind me who it was that said "England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity"? A common theme of war is that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Nazism posed a lesser threat to Irish men and women than British colonialism is, two sides of an evil coin - one had wreaked havoc and slaughter on Irish soil for over 800 years.

Think Michael Martin has a portrait of Dev in his office so how is that for recent glorification?

Once again your contradictions are notable.

[Franko]

"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?

Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance

It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party" 

But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6

But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

Now we're getting to the crux of it.

The people in the 26 can't be arsed with the hassle

Which is what northern nationalists have long believed

But we continue to be fed a bullshit line that the reasons were due to a sense of principle or morality

Thanks for finally admitting it

It took you a few pages, but you got there

No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution

It is understandable that your hypocrisy being called out has angered you

The highly principled, moralising facade has disappeared, and has been replaced with insults and expletives

And how fitting that you use Bono to illustrate your point

The guy that referenced that renowned peacekeeping force, the British Army when saying "Nobody loves peace more than those who fought for it" 

Bono said "f**k the revolution" on the night of November 8th, 1987

That was the night of Enniskillen

Did you agree with what he said that night or not?

It would seem you didn't

It would seem that comment really angered you

Which tells a story about your views, doesn't it

Lol

You've really lost it here

[Franko]

Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose

Bingo you say.  You are making a fool out of yourself.  And crassly using people's deaths as the vehicle in which to do so.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong

And show me somewhere else on this board you've used Jonathan Ball's name in a genuine way

Not just as a buzz word to take a swipe at someone

Your moral stance has been absolutely demolished here - and not by Angelo Snapchat and Franko... but by yourself.

That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

[HiMucker]

Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak

You refused to deal with my points earlier

Now you've returned to the US Republican party logic of "we invaded in Germany, so invading Iraq is fine"

The logic that dismisses critical thinking and dismisses any complexity

The fact that you keep repeating this nonsense doesn't make it true.

It just highlights, again and again, your desperation for something, anything to validate your duplicity

That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

ffs if your struggling just throw out the shinnerbot line

[Snapchap]

Sid a couple of days ago:

You see, to you, victims are "bingo"...only useful to you for being able to score political points

Sid today:

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection... that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

[Snapchap]

BTW Sid, I'll try a third time:

Since you regard the PIRA campaign as a "sectarian murder campaign" despite the evidence showing that to be a lie, can you therefor confirm that you regard the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

[sid waddell]

Sid a couple of days ago:

You see, to you, victims are "bingo"...only useful to you for being able to score political points

Sid today:

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection... that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

Duh, you've just proved my point!

To you Jonathan Ball is "bingo"

He must never be mentioned

[sid waddell]

BTW Sid, I'll try a third time:

Since you regard the PIRA campaign as a "sectarian murder campaign" despite the evidence showing that to be a lie, can you therefor confirm that you regard the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

But it was a sectarian murder campaign - unless you're saying that it couldn't have been because the PIRA also terrorised anybody in its own community who disagreed with it - which would also be accurate

And all you have in response is whataboutery

[sid waddell]

Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose

Bingo you say.  You are making a fool out of yourself.  And crassly using people's deaths as the vehicle in which to do so.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong

And show me somewhere else on this board you've used Jonathan Ball's name in a genuine way

Not just as a buzz word to take a swipe at someone

Your moral stance has been absolutely demolished here - and not by Angelo Snapchat and Franko... but by yourself.

That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

You're the person that got outraged because I referenced Bono saying "f**k the revolution" after Enniskillen

And you say I'm making a fool of myself?

Now, I would have thought taking grievous offence at somebody condemning civilian slaughter was making a fool of themselves, but sure what would I know

Now you're proving my point by saying that Jonathan Ball and other victims are off limits for discussion

The real victims, to you, are the murderers

We must never reference their heinous crimes or their victims

[Snapchap]

Sid a couple of days ago:

You see, to you, victims are "bingo"...only useful to you for being able to score political points

Sid today:

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection... that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

Duh, you've just proved my point!

To you Jonathan Ball is "bingo"

He must never be mentioned

Oh FFS!! So it's wrong to use victims names for point scoring, unless you do it? Because when you do it, well that's actually just "proof" that you didn't do it?

Do you ever step back and consider how utterly ridiculous you make yourself look with this sort of nonsense?

[Snapchap]

BTW Sid, I'll try a third time:

Since you regard the PIRA campaign as a "sectarian murder campaign" despite the evidence showing that to be a lie, can you therefor confirm that you regard the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

But it was a sectarian murder campaign - unless you're saying that it couldn't have been because the PIRA also terrorised anybody in its own community who disagreed with it - which would also be accurate

And all you have in response is whataboutery

Off we got for a 4th attempt at getting an answer:

Do you regard the Old IRA campaign as a "civilian/sectarian murder campaign"?

[Franko]

Also, none of the Shinners here have yet remotely managed to point out what was wrong with my comments as regards the sickening murder of Sean Browne

Perhaps because they feel some sense of guilt that the resumption of war that they supported led to the resumption of the vicious cycle of violence that led to his murder

The truth hurts

To the likes of Angelo, Snapchap and Franko, Sean Browne is "bingo"

Somebody who can be brought up in an attempt to justify slaughter on the other side - but can only ever be referenced for that purpose

Bingo you say.  You are making a fool out of yourself.  And crassly using people's deaths as the vehicle in which to do so.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong

And show me somewhere else on this board you've used Jonathan Ball's name in a genuine way

Not just as a buzz word to take a swipe at someone

Your moral stance has been absolutely demolished here - and not by Angelo Snapchat and Franko... but by yourself.

That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

You're the person that got outraged because I referenced Bono saying "f**k the revolution" after Enniskillen

And you say I'm making a fool of myself?

Now, I would have thought taking grievous offence at somebody condemning civilian slaughter was making a fool of themselves, but sure what would I know

No outrage from me.

I calmly dismissed your expletive laden nonsense.

Again, just because you repeat something doesn't make it true.