Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[sid waddell]

What's surprising also is that the Shinners objected so strongly to a commemoration of the RIC on the basis of the Black and Tans terrorising Irish people

Well the PIRA terrorised Irish people too, and for a lot longer

So clearly terrorising people is not judged off limits for commemoration or indeed celebration by the Shinners

One could be forgiven thinking that it is in fact a pre-requisite for commemoration in their eyes

Can't wait for the Sinn Fein led commemoration of sectarian Loyalist murderers in a glorious new united Ireland - will this be happening, Shinners?

[sid waddell]

I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.

Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.

You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK 

[Snapchap]

Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Interesting. You now describe the IRA campaign as a sectarian murder campaign? Given that the vast majority of their victims were members of the security forces (and therefor targeted for that very reason), doesn't that kinda mean you're indulging in revisionism yourself? Clutching the pearls tighter here.

That's like a career criminal and serial rapist objecting to being called a serial rapist on the basis of him having committed plenty of crimes which weren't rape

No it's just calling you out on misrepresenting the reality of the conflict. If sectarian murder made up the majority of IRA attacks, then by all means it would be factually accurate to refer to their campaign as one of sectarian murder. Otherwise, you are being deliberately misleading and deliberately misrepresenting the facts of a conflict - a very telling decision, given that you purport to have such care and concern for victims some victims.

Would you ever, or have you ever referred to the Old IRA campaign as a campaign of civilian murder? Please do answer that.

[sid waddell]

Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Interesting. You now describe the IRA campaign as a sectarian murder campaign? Given that the vast majority of their victims were members of the security forces (and therefor targeted for that very reason), doesn't that kinda mean you're indulging in revisionism yourself? Clutching the pearls tighter here.

That's like a career criminal and serial rapist objecting to being called a serial rapist on the basis of him having committed plenty of crimes which weren't rape

No it's just calling you out on misrepresenting the reality of the conflict. If sectarian murder made up the majority of IRA attacks, then by all means it would be factually accurate to refer to their campaign as one of sectarian murder. Otherwise, you are being deliberately misleading and deliberately misrepresenting the facts of a conflict - a very telling decision, given that you purport to have such care and concern for victims some victims.

Would you refer to the Old IRA campaign as a campaign of civilian murder? Please do answer that.

Again, the logic of the serial rapist who objects to being called a rapist on the basis of committing other, non-rape crimes

There is one party who misrepresents the reality of the IRA's 28 year campaign of murder and that is Sinn Fein

[Angelo]

I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.

Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.

You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK 

I clearly don't but we can see your contradictions loud and clear.

You continue to be the only poster here who justifies the murder of civilians, you have no credibility to moralise and pontificate as clearly you have the least respect for human right and social equality. The far right would love a guy with your values, you would make great bedfellows.

[Angelo]

Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Interesting. You now describe the IRA campaign as a sectarian murder campaign? Given that the vast majority of their victims were members of the security forces (and therefor targeted for that very reason), doesn't that kinda mean you're indulging in revisionism yourself? Clutching the pearls tighter here.

That's like a career criminal and serial rapist objecting to being called a serial rapist on the basis of him having committed plenty of crimes which weren't rape

No it's just calling you out on misrepresenting the reality of the conflict. If sectarian murder made up the majority of IRA attacks, then by all means it would be factually accurate to refer to their campaign as one of sectarian murder. Otherwise, you are being deliberately misleading and deliberately misrepresenting the facts of a conflict - a very telling decision, given that you purport to have such care and concern for victims some victims.

Would you refer to the Old IRA campaign as a campaign of civilian murder? Please do answer that.

Again, the logic of the serial rapist who objects to being called a rapist on the basis of committing other, non-rape crimes

It's actually the logic of a guy condemning one rapist as scum of the earth while lauding the other as a hero of humanity

All we can deduce from your (lack of) moral standards is that you justify sectarian muders and violence.

It's transparent, a hypocrite for all to see.

[sid waddell]

I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.

Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.

You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK 

I clearly don't but we can see your contradictions loud and clear.

You continue to be the only poster here who justifies the murder of civilians, you have no credibility to moralise and pontificate as clearly you have the least respect for human right and social equality. The far right would love a guy with your values, you would make great bedfellows.

You've been justifying the murder of civilians as long as you've been as this board

I haven't justified the murder of a single civilian in the conflict

Sinn Fein are the party of rehabilitating civilian murder

And Nazi collaboration, incidentally

[Snapchap]

Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

They are obsessed with doing this

Whataboutery in its purest and saddest form

And ultimately, it's all about defending and whitewashing a sectarian murder gang

The worst form of revisionism you could possibly get

Interesting. You now describe the IRA campaign as a sectarian murder campaign? Given that the vast majority of their victims were members of the security forces (and therefor targeted for that very reason), doesn't that kinda mean you're indulging in revisionism yourself? Clutching the pearls tighter here.

That's like a career criminal and serial rapist objecting to being called a serial rapist on the basis of him having committed plenty of crimes which weren't rape

No it's just calling you out on misrepresenting the reality of the conflict. If sectarian murder made up the majority of IRA attacks, then by all means it would be factually accurate to refer to their campaign as one of sectarian murder. Otherwise, you are being deliberately misleading and deliberately misrepresenting the facts of a conflict - a very telling decision, given that you purport to have such care and concern for victims some victims.

Would you refer to the Old IRA campaign as a campaign of civilian murder? Please do answer that.

Again, the logic of the serial rapist who objects to being called a rapist on the basis of committing other, non-rape crimes

There is one party who misrepresents the reality of the IRA's 28 year campaign of murder and that is Sinn Fein

You see, you're just not getting it. It's not a matter of opinions. The cold hard numbers expose you as a liar. So the fact that you are deliberately ignoring the numbers in order to misrepresent the truth of what happened in the conflict, well...people can judge you for themselves on that behaviour.

And your refusal to answer a simple question marks you as a coward. I'll try again: Would you describe the Old IRA campaign as "a civilian murder campaign"?

[Angelo]

I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.

Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.

You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK 

I clearly don't but we can see your contradictions loud and clear.

You continue to be the only poster here who justifies the murder of civilians, you have no credibility to moralise and pontificate as clearly you have the least respect for human right and social equality. The far right would love a guy with your values, you would make great bedfellows.

You've been justifying the murder of civilians as long as you've been as this board

I haven't justified the murder of a single civilian in the conflict

Sinn Fein are the party of rehabilitating civilian murder

And Nazi collaboration, incidentally

And the Free State has been ruled by two establishment parties since its inception

1) A party who offered its condonlences to the Nazi Party on the death of Hitler
2) A party with its origins in far right fascism and Franco supporters

FF/FG held a bombastic military display to celebrate the deaths of hundreds of civilian murders this year, you think that was fine yet you are outraged about SF commemorating their war.

The problem for you is that you don't have a leg to stand on morally. You can put on as big a theatrical display of sanctimony as you please, but there's plenty of posters here to show your contradictions and faux outrage for the complete facade it is. When that happens, we see how nasty and malicious you can get. We saw your disgusting comments on Sean Browne, we see how you have become the defender of the far right blueshirts. Your real values are beginning to manifest because like most bigots, you don't like your hatred and intolerant views being challenged.

[Franko]

"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?

Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance

It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party" 

But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6

But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

Now we're getting to the crux of it.

The people in the 26 can't be arsed with the hassle

Which is what northern nationalists have long believed

But we continue to be fed a bullshit line that the reasons were due to a sense of principle or morality

Thanks for finally admitting it

It took you a few pages, but you got there

No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution

It is understandable that your hypocrisy being called out has angered you

The highly principled, moralising facade has disappeared, and has been replaced with insults and expletives

And how fitting that you use Bono to illustrate your point

The guy that referenced that renowned peacekeeping force, the British Army when saying "Nobody loves peace more than those who fought for it" 

[Franko]

Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak

You refused to deal with my points earlier

Now you've returned to the US Republican party logic of "we invaded in Germany, so invading Iraq is fine"

The logic that dismisses critical thinking and dismisses any complexity

The fact that you keep repeating this nonsense doesn't make it true.

It just highlights, again and again, your desperation for something, anything to validate your duplicity

[sid waddell]

Comparing and contrasting the Provos with anyone else, does not lessen the horrendous atrocities against innocents that they carried out. People trying to glorifying them is sad, especially young people who weren't around in those days, as if it wouldn't be too bad to bring a bit of that back.

John Hume is who we should be glorifying. And his view of the Provos was the correct one.

It 100% doesn't

All that's being asked is that people apply those morals equally

SOME people in the 26 have a real problem with this

They have no problem with glorifying the perpetrators of such atrocities when they were committed in 'their' name, so to speak

You refused to deal with my points earlier

Now you've returned to the US Republican party logic of "we invaded in Germany, so invading Iraq is fine"

The logic that dismisses critical thinking and dismisses any complexity

The fact that you keep repeating this nonsense doesn't make it true.

It just highlights, again and again, your desperation for something, anything to validate your duplicity

That's not an argument

It's a standard Shinnerbot deflection

The logic is clear, unarguable and you refuse to deal with it because you know it's accurate and that sort of blows up your argument like the PIRA blew up three year old Jonathan Ball

[sid waddell]

"But in the Dail, only Sinn Fein are still glorifying a campaign of which sectarian murder was an integral part

Nobody else is

Therefore it's totally legitimate to call Sinn Fein glorifiers of sectarian murder, especially after comments like that of Stanley and David Cullinane"

This is a direct quote from you a couple of days back.

Can you please use your powers of critical thinking to show me how this does not apply to FG, given the recent glorification of Richard Mulcahy on their official twitter account?

Take it up with Fine Gael

I've never voted Fine Gael in me life and never will, I've no time for them

But I bet anything calling Richard Mulcahy a sectarian killer wouldn't get you thrown out of Fine Gael

I bet anything calling Slab Murphy such would get you thrown out of Sinn Fein

Interesting.

I wouldn't be sure, on either front.

Some evidence to support both assertions would be useful in this instance

It comes back to the central question I asked last week

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein and believe that in broad terms, the PIRA campaign was wrong, and that the SDLP's approach was correct?

No, I don't think you can

You can certainly be a member of Fine Gael and believe the War of Independence was not justified

The central raison d'etre of Sinn Fein is the revisionism that the 28 year PIRA campaign was justified

In that respect it's a single issue party

Fine Gael isn't a single issue party

None of this is evidence

I haven't a clue whether or not you'd get thrown out.

But I'm not the one making the assertions.

Also - lol at the line in bold

"On this single issue they are a sigle issue party" 

But Sinn Fein are effectively a single issue party

Everything is completely secondary to a united Ireland and the justification and rehabilitation of the PIRA

You know full well it's the case that any Sinn Fein candidate who criticises the likes of Slab Murphy would be out

That you can't admit this highlights an essential dishonesty in your position

Correct - there is one over-riding reason for their existence.

No different to any of the other main parties in the 26 in the post war years

Pro/Anti Treaty was the only show in town for a generation

I genuinely don't know whether a SF candidate is any more likely to get the boot from the party for criticising the Provos than a FG candidate who criticised Collins

If I had to guess I'd say possibly, but it would be marginal - and this is possibly more reflective of the relative novelty of the conflict in the 6

But this is not 1926

It's not 1946

The Republic has indeed struggled to get away from Civil War politics for a long time

Sinn Fein want us to replace that with Troubles politics

No thanks

Now we're getting to the crux of it.

The people in the 26 can't be arsed with the hassle

Which is what northern nationalists have long believed

But we continue to be fed a bullshit line that the reasons were due to a sense of principle or morality

Thanks for finally admitting it

It took you a few pages, but you got there

No, we can't be arsed with the "hassle" of blowing up innocent children in pursuit of deluded fascist dreams

Obviously some here can though

Shove yer Trouble politics up yer arse

Again, as Bono said, f**k the revolution

It is understandable that your hypocrisy being called out has angered you

The highly principled, moralising facade has disappeared, and has been replaced with insults and expletives

And how fitting that you use Bono to illustrate your point

The guy that referenced that renowned peacekeeping force, the British Army when saying "Nobody loves peace more than those who fought for it" 

Bono said "f**k the revolution" on the night of November 8th, 1987

That was the night of Enniskillen

Did you agree with what he said that night or not?

It would seem you didn't

It would seem that comment really angered you

Which tells a story about your views, doesn't it

[Angelo]

Calm down Sid.

[sid waddell]

I think it just sums up the psychopathy on show here that objecting to sectarian murder is met with a sarcastic meme dismissively classing you as a "pearl clutcher"

It proves my point entirely about what Shinnerbots are

Bit slow on the uptake. Go on, read the post again. The 'pearl clutching' was a reference to the very suggestion that you would ever, possibly, hold hypocritical views.

Bit slow on the uptake?

Have you ever thought for a second that maybe the PIRA were a bit slow on the uptake in believing blowing up and shooting people for 28 years would bring about a united Ireland?

But you have no problem with the Old IRA their sectarian murders and the bombastic display your state went to commemorate an event which caused the deaths of hundreds of civilians.

Your hypocrisy is transparent and the nastiness comes out when people probe you on this.

You're the guy who wanted Ireland to remain part of the UK 

I clearly don't but we can see your contradictions loud and clear.

You continue to be the only poster here who justifies the murder of civilians, you have no credibility to moralise and pontificate as clearly you have the least respect for human right and social equality. The far right would love a guy with your values, you would make great bedfellows.

You've been justifying the murder of civilians as long as you've been as this board

I haven't justified the murder of a single civilian in the conflict

Sinn Fein are the party of rehabilitating civilian murder

And Nazi collaboration, incidentally

And the Free State has been ruled by two establishment parties since its inception

1) A party who offered its condonlences to the Nazi Party on the death of Hitler
2) A party with its origins in far right fascism and Franco supporters

FF/FG held a bombastic military display to celebrate the deaths of hundreds of civilian murders this year, you think that was fine yet you are outraged about SF commemorating their war.

The problem for you is that you don't have a leg to stand on morally. You can put on as big a theatrical display of sanctimony as you please, but there's plenty of posters here to show your contradictions and faux outrage for the complete facade it is. When that happens, we see how nasty and malicious you can get. We saw your disgusting comments on Sean Browne, we see how you have become the defender of the far right blueshirts. Your real values are beginning to manifest because like most bigots, you don't like your hatred and intolerant views being challenged.

FG have their own vile history as regards as regards fascism

FF's extension of condolence to Germany on the death of Hitler was outrageous

No arguments there - I despise both parties and both of those things would be contributory reasons as to why I could never vote for them

However Sinn Fein's dalliance with Naziism is much more recent and therefore much more relevant

The current leader of Sinn Fein glorifies a Nazi collaborator

She has serious questions to answer about this