Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[Franko]

A quick summation of Sid and his position:

- Insists that the PIRA campaign was "a mass murder campaign" but the Old IRA campaign, which involved a higher proportion of civilian killings, was not.

- Claims that the Old IRA campaign had a mandate despite the SF manifesto in 1918 not making any reference to starting a war.

- Argues that the PIRA campaign was about murdering civlians even though it's been spelled out to him that the overwhelming majority of IRA operations were directed against security forces and commerical targets.

- Believes that dissidents today are operating in the same societal conditions for Catholics/nationalists as the PIRA did.

- Believes that the British Government wiillingly and enthusiastically engaged in peace negotiations without having been forced into it and that the RUC was disbanded apparently just thanks to the generosity of spirit of British negotiators when nationalists peacefully asked for the force to be discontinued.

- Maintains he understands the reality of day-to-day life in the north throughout the conflict because he was once (Yip. Once.) stopped by a british army patrol. An event which by his own admission, took place years after the end of the conflict.

- Believes that all that nationalists had to do to achieve what we have today was to have engaged in peaceful protest. He even suggests that this could all have been achieved by 1972. Seemingly blissfully unaware that that was the very same year that Britain shot dead 14 peaceful protesters in Derry. How easy must it be for someone sitting in the comfort and safety of the Free State to insist that more northern Catholics should have risked sacrificing themselves in front of British guns by continuing to rely on peaceful protesting. Maybe Sid thinks Bloody Sunday was a flash in the pan. But a year before Bloody Sunday, a Civil Rights march was attacked by the police and loyalists at Burntollet Bridge. Despite this, they DID do what Sid suggested: they persisted with peaceful protest. A year later 14 of them lay dead.

- Refuses to say why peaceful protest would have worked in 1972 but was not an option in 1919.

- Maintains that the British would have buckled under the pressure of Catholic peaceful protests despite the fact that Britain didn't even buckle under the worldwide condemnation it was faced with after Bloody Sunday. Despite having been asked repeatedly, he has yet to explain how he can believe such a downright stupid notion.

- Seemingly believes that if you murder civilians in a long war then you are morally repugnant, but if you murder a higher proportion of civilians but over a short, intensly savage campaign, well that's at worst just "a grey area" morally.

- Seemingly believes that if you regard an armed campaign as having been justifiable, that you then must therefor believe every action within that campaign was morally acceptable and justifiable. For this reason, he played the favourite game of many Free Staters - victim bingo - and pulled the names of a few IRA murder victims out of the air and proclaimed that because I believe the IRA campaign itself was morally justifiable, that I must by extension, believe those murders were justified. Curiously, though, he refuses to condemn the Old IRA campaign. By his own twisted logic, surely that would mean he too must believe their murders of civilians were all justified too? Can you have it both ways?

- Attacks posters disagreeing with him for making straw man arguments and being "dishonest posters" despite going so far as to repeatedly accuse me of supporting the murdering of civilians and refusing to post any evidence whatsoever to substantiate this outrageous and sick lie.

- Most pathetically and shamefully of all, blames the IRA for the loyalist murder of Sean Brown, thereby absolving the loyalists/ states agents who did it, from responsibility.

To call that a poorly written pile of shit, full of lies would be a gross understatement

The rantings of a madman

And that, sadly, sums up the pro-PIRA position on this board

It's not in any way inaccurate, it's exactly right

You made zero effort to say why you think the post is disgraceful, zero effort to engage

And therefore your post has zero merit or credibility

You've no right to stop people voicing opinions and facts and truths you don't like

[sid waddell]

Encapsulates the deluded tosser perfectly.

Well you say that, Red Hand, but apparently it was actually me who made you post that (using mind control I assume).

After all, Sid (the fella who is adamant that he dislikes dishonest posters and straw man arguments) this morning posted an accusation that when anyone leaves a post agreeing with something I've written, that I somehow made them do it.

Seems straw men only upset him when they are built by others.

No, I wrote a post to the effect that there is a circle jerk full of Shinners on this forum, who continually back each others infantile nonsense up with aggressive, playground bully style posts, and that point has been borne out beautifully

[Franko]

You are still avoiding answering my earlier questions, by the way.

Which is very telling.

[sid waddell]

Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.

Really? What's lowlife about them?

I specifically did not do the thing you're accusing me of, but you didn't have the decency to quote that - it might disturb your lies - as always, the Sinn Fein way - flat out lie when outpointed

Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was wrong - the murder happened as part of a vicious, senseless tit for tat cycle of violence - which the IRA, after the ceasefires of 1994, took it upon themselves to restart

No resumption of that cycle of violence by the IRA, very likely no murder of Sean Brown by the sc**bag Loyalists that did it

But of course the IRA couldn't leave well alone, they had to go back and start all over again

Oh and by the way, you totally fail to get the irony that your narrative all along, and the narrative of the Shinners across this forum, has been that Unionist intransigence justified a campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part - for you the blame for the murder of the civilians at Claudy, Bloody Friday, Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and Warrington was on Unionist and British intransigence, not on the people who carried them out

On this very thread, we've had posts justifying all that on the basis of Bloody Sunday

And the narrative about Kingsmills in Republican circles has always been that if the Reaveys and O'Dowds had not been murdered, Kingsmills would not have happened

The narrative is that the Glennane Gang were to blame for Kingsmills - not the IRA

As a narrative of buck passing, defending the indefensible, and outright hypocrisy, that's gold medal stuff

The IRA, sectarian murderers of workmen and eternally innocent in the eyes of its cheerleaders, just as the Loyalist scum who murdered the Reaveys and the O'Dowds are eternally innocent in the eyes of theirs

Two sides of the same coin

Do those, like yourself, who celebrate/justify the sectarian murders carried out by the Old IRA have a position on this coin at all?

I don't celebrate any murders carried out by the old IRA, never mind sectarian ones

Murder is not a thing to be celebrated

It must be great to live in a straw man version of reality

When you feel outpointed, just lie about the person you're debating with

Over and over and over we see it from SF supporters

I have sod all time for Fine Gael but their supporters can at least mostly debate honestly

SF supporters just throw the toys out of the pram and lie flat out, no compunction about doing so, it's pure Trump

And that's the way they've been conditioned by the party, which operates along the lines of a cult

The only person throwing toys out and creating straw men is yourself.

You've tried multiple times in the past few hours alone - and that is only in your interactions with me.

But it easily seen through.

And then we have the inevitable Sinn Fein claptrap.

This is where you (and so many 'outside' experts) give yourself away as having no understanding of the mindset of the northern nationalist.  Your automatic assumption is that anyone who will not condemn the entire PIRA campaign is a staunch SF supporter and by extension, a party crony.  Which is so far from the truth in reality.  But you and your ilk cannot help but see these things in black and white... you don't grasp the intricacies of it whatsoever.  You can regurgitate as many lines as you want from books you've read about North, but once you come out with that line, I immediately know that you have no grasp of what you are talking about, despite the regard in which you may hold your own opinion.

But it is easy to see how someone fed on a childhood diet of state censored news would believe that this is how things are here.

I have voted SF in the past, but I have also given 1st preference votes to SDLP, Alliance and various Independents.

But I don't condemn entirely the actions of the PIRA.

Just as you have refused to condemn the actions of the old IRA and indeed have offered many justifications/mitigations for such actions.

I can re-post these for you if you need reminding.

I have voted SF in the past, which is why I can see through the bullshit, for a while I had even fooled myself into believing some of it

The Northern nationalist mindset is not a monolith and that's something you don't understand

But what is undoubtedly true is that the PIRA's campaign was rejected at the ballot box by the majority of nationalist voters

Shinner cliche central when you talk about "state censored news", all you're missing is an anti-vaxx conspiracy

Looks like you've fed yourself a diet of Shinner censored news

Here's another thing, given the level of hatred for "free staters" on this forum, I'm surprised youse lot want to join up with us at all, seems like yis hate us more than yis hate themmuns

Attitudes like yours and others here certainly won't help in any future referendum on a united Ireland in the Republic, I could imagine them turning a lot of people off

Luckily for you I won't be one of those people if and when the time does come to vote

[sid waddell]

You are still avoiding answering my earlier questions, by the way.

Which is very telling.

What questions?

I've asked umpteen questions of Shinners today and every single one has gone unanswered

Sinn Fein supporters don't do answers

[sid waddell]

Let's go through some PIRA atrocities and see what justifications can be made

Let's start with Enniskillen

What was the justification?

As Bono said, f**k the revolution

[Franko]

Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.

Really? What's lowlife about them?

I specifically did not do the thing you're accusing me of, but you didn't have the decency to quote that - it might disturb your lies - as always, the Sinn Fein way - flat out lie when outpointed

Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was wrong - the murder happened as part of a vicious, senseless tit for tat cycle of violence - which the IRA, after the ceasefires of 1994, took it upon themselves to restart

No resumption of that cycle of violence by the IRA, very likely no murder of Sean Brown by the sc**bag Loyalists that did it

But of course the IRA couldn't leave well alone, they had to go back and start all over again

Oh and by the way, you totally fail to get the irony that your narrative all along, and the narrative of the Shinners across this forum, has been that Unionist intransigence justified a campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part - for you the blame for the murder of the civilians at Claudy, Bloody Friday, Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and Warrington was on Unionist and British intransigence, not on the people who carried them out

On this very thread, we've had posts justifying all that on the basis of Bloody Sunday

And the narrative about Kingsmills in Republican circles has always been that if the Reaveys and O'Dowds had not been murdered, Kingsmills would not have happened

The narrative is that the Glennane Gang were to blame for Kingsmills - not the IRA

As a narrative of buck passing, defending the indefensible, and outright hypocrisy, that's gold medal stuff

The IRA, sectarian murderers of workmen and eternally innocent in the eyes of its cheerleaders, just as the Loyalist scum who murdered the Reaveys and the O'Dowds are eternally innocent in the eyes of theirs

Two sides of the same coin

Do those, like yourself, who celebrate/justify the sectarian murders carried out by the Old IRA have a position on this coin at all?

I don't celebrate any murders carried out by the old IRA, never mind sectarian ones

Murder is not a thing to be celebrated

It must be great to live in a straw man version of reality

When you feel outpointed, just lie about the person you're debating with

Over and over and over we see it from SF supporters

I have sod all time for Fine Gael but their supporters can at least mostly debate honestly

SF supporters just throw the toys out of the pram and lie flat out, no compunction about doing so, it's pure Trump

And that's the way they've been conditioned by the party, which operates along the lines of a cult

The only person throwing toys out and creating straw men is yourself.

You've tried multiple times in the past few hours alone - and that is only in your interactions with me.

But it easily seen through.

And then we have the inevitable Sinn Fein claptrap.

This is where you (and so many 'outside' experts) give yourself away as having no understanding of the mindset of the northern nationalist.  Your automatic assumption is that anyone who will not condemn the entire PIRA campaign is a staunch SF supporter and by extension, a party crony.  Which is so far from the truth in reality.  But you and your ilk cannot help but see these things in black and white... you don't grasp the intricacies of it whatsoever.  You can regurgitate as many lines as you want from books you've read about North, but once you come out with that line, I immediately know that you have no grasp of what you are talking about, despite the regard in which you may hold your own opinion.

But it is easy to see how someone fed on a childhood diet of state censored news would believe that this is how things are here.

I have voted SF in the past, but I have also given 1st preference votes to SDLP, Alliance and various Independents.

But I don't condemn entirely the actions of the PIRA.

Just as you have refused to condemn the actions of the old IRA and indeed have offered many justifications/mitigations for such actions.

I can re-post these for you if you need reminding.

I have voted SF in the past, which is why I can see through the bullshit, for a while I had even fooled myself into believing some of it

The Northern nationalist mindset is not a monolith and that's something you don't understand

But what is undoubtedly true is that the PIRA's campaign was rejected at the ballot box by the majority of nationalist voters

Shinner cliche central when you talk about "state censored news", all you're missing is an anti-vaxx conspiracy

Looks like you've fed yourself a diet of Shinner censored news

Here's another thing, given the level of hatred for "free staters" on this forum, I'm surprised youse lot want to join up with us at all, seems like yis hate us more than yis hate themmuns

Attitudes like yours and others here certainly won't help in any future referendum on a united Ireland in the Republic, I could imagine them turning a lot of people off

Luckily for you I won't be one of those people if and when the time does come to vote

Correct.  It is absolutely not.  There is an entire spectrum of views involved.  And across that spectrum, there will be infinitely varying opinions on the PIRA campaign, from absolute support, to absolute revulsion and everything in between.

That is something that plenty of people of your mindset don't (or won't) understand, so when you come across someone who won't condemn outright the activities of the PIRA - you stick your fingers in your ears and shout about shinnerbots.  You have no appreciation for the nuance, so you revert to this same infantile position.  It belies a lack of understanding/ability and undermines your credibility.

But it is understandable, since any fact based debate exposes the absolute hypocrisy of those who revere the actions Old IRA, but are somehow repulsed by those of the Provos.

And as for my comment about state censored media - that's no soundbyte - that's EXACTLY what it was.  Your inability to refute this with facts and your subsequent recourse to more peurile nonsense about 'Shinners' is an absolutely perfect illustration of what I am talking about above.

[Franko]

You are still avoiding answering my earlier questions, by the way.

Which is very telling.

What questions?

I've asked umpteen questions of Shinners today and every single one has gone unanswered

Sinn Fein supporters don't do answers

https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=15128.msg2017088#msg2017088

[sid waddell]

Sorry but that's more bluster

What you are saying is that if I lived in the North between 1969 and 1997, I'd have supported the IRA's campaign of murder

But the majority of the Catholic population who lived in the North did not support it

The majority wanted it to stop and to live normal lives, not lives clouded with suspicion and fear

If the IRA had not abandoned their ceasefire, Sean Brown would probably not have been murdered, he might even still be alive - because the circle of tit for tat would have been broken or at least greatly lessened - the LVF would likely never have come into being

I was going to reply to a different aspect of your post but to be honest, you've just exposed yourself as a twisted little lowlife in your comments abour Sean Brown. We're now in Regina Doherty territory whereby loyalists are now absolved of responsibility for their killings and instead, in typical mental gymnastics fashion, those killings too are to now be regarded as the responsibility of the IRA.

Really? What's lowlife about them?

I specifically did not do the thing you're accusing me of, but you didn't have the decency to quote that - it might disturb your lies - as always, the Sinn Fein way - flat out lie when outpointed

Nothing I said about the murder of Sean Brown was wrong - the murder happened as part of a vicious, senseless tit for tat cycle of violence - which the IRA, after the ceasefires of 1994, took it upon themselves to restart

No resumption of that cycle of violence by the IRA, very likely no murder of Sean Brown by the sc**bag Loyalists that did it

But of course the IRA couldn't leave well alone, they had to go back and start all over again

Oh and by the way, you totally fail to get the irony that your narrative all along, and the narrative of the Shinners across this forum, has been that Unionist intransigence justified a campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part - for you the blame for the murder of the civilians at Claudy, Bloody Friday, Kingsmills, La Mon, Enniskillen and Warrington was on Unionist and British intransigence, not on the people who carried them out

On this very thread, we've had posts justifying all that on the basis of Bloody Sunday

And the narrative about Kingsmills in Republican circles has always been that if the Reaveys and O'Dowds had not been murdered, Kingsmills would not have happened

The narrative is that the Glennane Gang were to blame for Kingsmills - not the IRA

As a narrative of buck passing, defending the indefensible, and outright hypocrisy, that's gold medal stuff

The IRA, sectarian murderers of workmen and eternally innocent in the eyes of its cheerleaders, just as the Loyalist scum who murdered the Reaveys and the O'Dowds are eternally innocent in the eyes of theirs

Two sides of the same coin

Do those, like yourself, who celebrate/justify the sectarian murders carried out by the Old IRA have a position on this coin at all?

I don't celebrate any murders carried out by the old IRA, never mind sectarian ones

Murder is not a thing to be celebrated

It must be great to live in a straw man version of reality

When you feel outpointed, just lie about the person you're debating with

Over and over and over we see it from SF supporters

I have sod all time for Fine Gael but their supporters can at least mostly debate honestly

SF supporters just throw the toys out of the pram and lie flat out, no compunction about doing so, it's pure Trump

And that's the way they've been conditioned by the party, which operates along the lines of a cult

The only person throwing toys out and creating straw men is yourself.

You've tried multiple times in the past few hours alone - and that is only in your interactions with me.

But it easily seen through.

And then we have the inevitable Sinn Fein claptrap.

This is where you (and so many 'outside' experts) give yourself away as having no understanding of the mindset of the northern nationalist.  Your automatic assumption is that anyone who will not condemn the entire PIRA campaign is a staunch SF supporter and by extension, a party crony.  Which is so far from the truth in reality.  But you and your ilk cannot help but see these things in black and white... you don't grasp the intricacies of it whatsoever.  You can regurgitate as many lines as you want from books you've read about North, but once you come out with that line, I immediately know that you have no grasp of what you are talking about, despite the regard in which you may hold your own opinion.

But it is easy to see how someone fed on a childhood diet of state censored news would believe that this is how things are here.

I have voted SF in the past, but I have also given 1st preference votes to SDLP, Alliance and various Independents.

But I don't condemn entirely the actions of the PIRA.

Just as you have refused to condemn the actions of the old IRA and indeed have offered many justifications/mitigations for such actions.

I can re-post these for you if you need reminding.

I have voted SF in the past, which is why I can see through the bullshit, for a while I had even fooled myself into believing some of it

The Northern nationalist mindset is not a monolith and that's something you don't understand

But what is undoubtedly true is that the PIRA's campaign was rejected at the ballot box by the majority of nationalist voters

Shinner cliche central when you talk about "state censored news", all you're missing is an anti-vaxx conspiracy

Looks like you've fed yourself a diet of Shinner censored news

Here's another thing, given the level of hatred for "free staters" on this forum, I'm surprised youse lot want to join up with us at all, seems like yis hate us more than yis hate themmuns

Attitudes like yours and others here certainly won't help in any future referendum on a united Ireland in the Republic, I could imagine them turning a lot of people off

Luckily for you I won't be one of those people if and when the time does come to vote

Correct.  It is absolutely not.  There is an entire spectrum of views involved.  And across that spectrum, there will be infinitely varying opinions on the PIRA campaign, from absolute support, to absolute revulsion and everything in between.

That is something that plenty of people of your mindset don't (or won't) understand, so when you come across someone who won't condemn outright the activities of the PIRA - you stick your fingers in your ears and shout about shinnerbots.  You have no appreciation for the nuance, so you revert to this same infantile position.  It belies a lack of understanding/ability and undermines your credibility.

But it is understandable, since any fact based debate exposes the absolute hypocrisy of those who revere the actions Old IRA, but are somehow repulsed by those of the Provos.

And as for my comment about state censored media - that's no soundbyte - that's EXACTLY what it was.  Your inability to refute this with facts and your subsequent recourse to more peurile nonsense about 'Shinners' is an absolutely perfect illustration of what I am talking about above.

So how did Rory O'Connor sucking into a helium balloon to sound less credible justify La Mon, Kingsmills, Claudy, Enniskillen Warrington?

The answer is: it didn't

You have "nuance" for a 28 year campaign of which civilian murder was an integral part and which on the whole brought societal devastation

And yet you expect others to be totally black and white in their condemnation of British and Loyalist atrocities

Sure why don't you point out the "good" aspects of the war in Iraq or the war in Bosnia then?

The truth hurts

Your fake offence at the term "Shinners", a term which Shinners themselves even use, while at the same time you accuse somebody who disagrees with you of being on drugs, is noted

And you once again resort to lies about my views on the old IRA

By the way, Sinn Fein have had every opportunity to tell their side of the story in the media for the last 27 years, and they've failed utterly in any real sense to explain what it was they were doing

Why? Because they can't defend the indefensible

[sid waddell]

You are still avoiding answering my earlier questions, by the way.

Which is very telling.

What questions?

I've asked umpteen questions of Shinners today and every single one has gone unanswered

Sinn Fein supporters don't do answers

https://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=15128.msg2017088#msg2017088

You apply a Northern Ireland 1969 standard there, it's apples and oranges

And the irony is your post there actually reads as a manifesto for why the Catholic population of NI should not have armed itself in 1969 and not fought back in any way

The black community's democratic mandate to arm themselves is the second amendment

And that should be enough

They can legally protest

They can negotiate with police chiefs

The knowledge of them being organised and legally armed means they're less likely to be attacked by police and means there's a greater chance of police modifying their behaviour through negotiation

They can build political support for the idea of black armament

You could set up a black version of the NRA

Civil disobedience is a powerful tool of negotiation

The police already intern black people by the million, it's not as if they're not doing that already, it's called the criminal justice system, which is the problem

US police already shoot unarmed black people dead by the truckful

The idea of legally arming yourself is one idea among a range of strategies available

Plenty of work would need to be done on the exact strategy but it would be completely legitimate under the US constitution

The whites do it, and they have power through doing it, so why shouldn't the blacks?

The Black Panther party actually resulted in California implementing some of the most stringent gun control in the US

Something needs to change, anyway

This is one possible way of doing it

And certainly if the white population has the right to arm itself, the black population has the moral right to do so

[Snapchap]

Let's go through some PIRA atrocities and see what justifications can be made

Let's start with Enniskillen

What was the justification?

As Bono said, f**k the revolution

See, one of the points I made in my post (the one you refuse to engage with and dismissed as rubbish even though I could post quotes to back up every claim I made about you) was that you repeatedly attempt to play victim bingo. You take single instances and argue that if you support the legitimacy of the IRA campaign in general, then by extension, you must support every action within that campaign. As a proposition, it's inherently stupid. I've repeatedly attempted to demonstrate that by turning it on you given your belief in the legitimacy of the Old IRA campaign, especially given that it was a campaign which saw a higher proportion of civilian killings. I'll do so again:

If somone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA camapign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?

[Angelo]

Once again Sid is the only person who has tried to diminish or justify the murder of civilians here.

He's an unintelligent troll and best ignored. The last few pages has been him morphing into his zealot Donald Trump mode. The mask really slips when he loses the temper and the posts about Sean Browne were disgusting.

Free Staters have absolutely no right to comment on the troubles and no right to use victims to score points.

Their government watched on and did nothing as the nationalist community were beaten, attacked and discriminated against by the state but yet he feels morally superior. There is without a very noticeable element on this board of Free Staters who openly resent northern nationalists. They have a lot in common with unionism.

People who become experts behind computer screens rather than their life experiences.

[Seaney]

Once again Sid is the only person who has tried to diminish or justify the murder of civilians here.

He's an unintelligent troll and best ignored. The last few pages has been him morphing into his zealot Donald Trump mode. The mask really slips when he loses the temper and the posts about Sean Browne were disgusting.

Free Staters have absolutely no right to comment on the troubles and no right to use victims to score points.

Their government watched on and did nothing as the nationalist community were beaten, attacked and discriminated against by the state but yet he feels morally superior. There is without a very noticeable element on this board of Free Staters who openly resent northern nationalists. They have a lot in common with unionism.

People who become experts behind computer screens rather than their life experiences.

Nail on head, these folk had no interest in their fellow Irishmen then or now - the level of moral superiority these keyboard warriors have about something they could know nothing about is pathetic at the very least, the Sid guy has serious mental health issues and Rossfan is no better. 

[grounded]

Always reminds a little of this chap when the pontification starts

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DNl1tvLx__JA&ved=2ahUKEwiqyo35xc_tAhWRYcAKHQdQBcoQwqsBMAB6BAgBEAM&usg=AOvVaw3nPn2lSDxUZVkUSp4mOv4c&cshid=1608020208956

[sid waddell]

Let's go through some PIRA atrocities and see what justifications can be made

Let's start with Enniskillen

What was the justification?

As Bono said, f**k the revolution

See, one of the points I made in my post (the one you refuse to engage with and dismissed as rubbish even though I could post quotes to back up every claim I made about you) was that you repeatedly attempt to play victim bingo. You take single instances and argue that if you support the legitimacy of the IRA campaign in general, then by extension, you must support every action within that campaign. As a proposition, it's inherently stupid. I've repeatedly attempted to demonstrate that by turning it on you given your belief in the legitimacy of the Old IRA campaign, especially given that it was a campaign which saw a higher proportion of civilian killings. I'll do so again:

If somone who believes the PIRA campaign in general was justifiable, and that to you means they therefore must view the Enniskillen bomb attack as justifiable, then since you believe the Old IRA camapign on the whole was justifiable, surely we can assume that you regard the Dunmanway Massacre as justifiable?

You see, to you, victims are "bingo"

To you, Sean Brown is "bingo", only useful to you for being able to score political points

Marie Wilson is "bingo" to you

Jonathan Ball is "bingo" to you

They aren't real people

And that's the ideology that led to 28 years of mass murder

And when you scratch the surface, it's the core of Sinn Fein

You can't even bring yourself to condemn the mass murder of Enniskillen without resorting to whataboutery

That's psychopathy