Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[skeog]

ML didnt come over very well today in radio interview.Giving BS the week off due to his fragile state some joke imo.Not many people heading to a building site often in a fragile state be given week off.

[Tubberman]

The SF spokesman on sport, ladies and gentlemen. A true statesman

https://twitter.com/chrisandrews64/status/1335638130481901568

Chris Andrews TD
@chrisandrews64
Hard luck to Tipp. Would have been great to see them in the Final V Dublin for many reasons.
Hopefully Mayo bottle it in another Final on the 19th
#mayovtipp

[sid waddell]

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein in 2020 and believe the PIRA's 1969 - 1997 campaign was wrong?

That it was the wrong strategy, and morally wrong?

And that John Hume and the SDLP were right all along?

What would happen if you went to a Sinn Fein party meeting and expressed these sentiments?

[Rossfan]

Might depend on where the meeting was held.....

[Angelo]

You've been indoctrinated from a young age to think we're the good guys and the Brits are the baddies. Had you been born 1/2 a mile up the road in a Protestant household you'd think the exact opposite.

This is the old "one side is as bad as the other" fallacy.

In terms of the troubles.

29% of the PIRA victims were civilians
51% of British Army victims were civilians
80+% of Loyalist paramilitary victimes were civilians (mainy aided and abetted by security forces)

It's never been a case of one side as bad as the other and anyone who tries to pedal that agenda has a clear agenda at play. One side was fighting for liberation of its people, the other was fighting for a protestant ascendancy.

35% of IRA victims were civilians.
Almost the same amount in numbers as loyalists and far in excess of the security forces. Forget about your percentages

Forget about percentages?

29% of PIRA killings were civilians
51% of British army killings were civilians
Over 80% of Loyalist paramilataries killings were civilians

Consversely, 59% of PIRA killings were state security forces.

I know why you want to forget about percentages because they don't suit your narrative. 161 innocent victims riddled with bullets by the British soldiers, how many convictions?

8,000 republican arrests during the troubles, how many soliders convicted of murder? How many times did the British Army open fire on loyalist communities?

It's odd how you have more focus on those killed by republicans than innocent nationalist civilians murdered by state security forces or in collusion with state security forces and military intelligence.

You have lost all credibility with that post, your figures are wrong. You cant peddle shite
I don't have a narrative, I am totally anti British Army, I have had family members killed or injured with British forces both in the recent conflict and 1921. The BA stats are not disputed by me. The IRA killed 1800 approx(650 civilians). , 35% of their victims.

29%.

And percentages do matter.

There was a war, bad things happen in war.

But why was there a war? People from nationalist enclaves didn't just wake up one morning and decide to start planting bombs.

So let's put the double standards to one side.

And why did these murders not bother you when you were voting SF back in the day?

They did.

Yet you still voted for them do why is it an issue now?

[general_lee]

Saw a good tweet comparing the "old" IRA with the Provos
https://twitter.com/tristin_1916/status/1335995212804579330?s=21

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Saw a good tweet comparing the "old" IRA with the Provos
https://twitter.com/tristin_1916/status/1335995212804579330?s=21

Thanks for confirming to Angelo it was 35 percent. The man not good with the numbers thing, canny understand that 50 Percent of 10 is a lot less than 50 Percent of 100 either by the looks of it

[sid waddell]

Might depend on where the meeting was held.....

I would genuinely like to get an answer to the question from a Sinn Fein supporter

It's sort of important and it seems an obvious question - especially given that Sinn Fein have designs on leading a government

Yet I've never heard it answered

[Angelo]

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein in 2020 and believe the PIRA's 1969 - 1997 campaign was wrong?

That it was the wrong strategy, and morally wrong?

And that John Hume and the SDLP were right all along?

What would happen if you went to a Sinn Fein party meeting and expressed these sentiments?

I'm not a SF member.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong. The political establishments in Britain, in the north or Ireland and in the south of Ireland let a violent sectarian oppression of the nationalist community evolve and fester and the Provos were born and everything escalated after that.

Regrettable things happened as they do in any conflict, lots of people laud Mandela as one of the greatest men that ever lived and rightly so but he was terrorist. His organisation killed many people, many innocent people, they used bombs to do so.

The orange ruling class in the O6, the FFG elite ruling class down south and the British establishment are the people responsible for that 30 years of murder and mayhem.

[sid waddell]

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein in 2020 and believe the PIRA's 1969 - 1997 campaign was wrong?

That it was the wrong strategy, and morally wrong?

And that John Hume and the SDLP were right all along?

What would happen if you went to a Sinn Fein party meeting and expressed these sentiments?

I'm not a SF member.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong. The political establishments in Britain, in the north or Ireland and in the south of Ireland let a violent sectarian oppression of the nationalist community evolve and fester and the Provos were born and everything escalated after that.

Regrettable things happened as they do in any conflict, lots of people laud Mandela as one of the greatest men that ever lived and rightly so but he was terrorist. His organisation killed many people, many innocent people, they used bombs to do so.

The orange ruling class in the O6, the FFG elite ruling class down south and the British establishment are the people responsible for that 30 years of murder and mayhem.

That's not an answer to the question though

Is it a prerequisite, if not in rule but in reality, that every Sinn Fein candidate must agree that the broad thrust of the Provisional IRA's campaign 1969-97 was justified, correct and righteous?

Can one believe that taken as a whole, that PIRA campaign was morally wrong - that the peaceful approach of John Hume and the SDP was the correct one - and be a Sinn Fein candidate, or indeed a party member?

Because it still seems to me that that is the central defining character of today's Sinn Fein and its membership - that what the PIRA did between 1969 and 1997 was correct and righteous

I don't think you can believe the PIRA campaign 1969-1997 was broadly wrong, and be a Sinn Fein member

And that's a problem for Sinn Fein, I think, especially if they want to be a sort of social democratic party of middle Ireland

There's a lack of honesty from Sinn Fein people and supporters surrounding this question

[Angelo]

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein in 2020 and believe the PIRA's 1969 - 1997 campaign was wrong?

That it was the wrong strategy, and morally wrong?

And that John Hume and the SDLP were right all along?

What would happen if you went to a Sinn Fein party meeting and expressed these sentiments?

I'm not a SF member.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong. The political establishments in Britain, in the north or Ireland and in the south of Ireland let a violent sectarian oppression of the nationalist community evolve and fester and the Provos were born and everything escalated after that.

Regrettable things happened as they do in any conflict, lots of people laud Mandela as one of the greatest men that ever lived and rightly so but he was terrorist. His organisation killed many people, many innocent people, they used bombs to do so.

The orange ruling class in the O6, the FFG elite ruling class down south and the British establishment are the people responsible for that 30 years of murder and mayhem.

That's not an answer to the question though

Is it a prerequisite, if not in rule but in reality, that every Sinn Fein candidate must agree that the broad thrust of the Provisional IRA's campaign 1969-97 was justified, correct and righteous?

Can one believe that taken as a whole, that PIRA campaign was morally wrong - that the peaceful approach of John Hume and the SDP was the correct one - and be a Sinn Fein candidate, or indeed a party member?

Because it still seems to me that that is the central defining character of today's Sinn Fein and its membership - that what the PIRA did between 1969 and 1997 was correct and righteous

I don't think you can believe the PIRA campaign 1969-1997 was broadly wrong, and be a Sinn Fein member

And that's a problem for Sinn Fein, I think, especially if they want to be a sort of social democratic party of middle Ireland

There's a lack of honesty from Sinn Fein people and supporters surrounding this question

I answered your question clearly and comprehensively.

I'll put in bold for you below. Word for word what I said in the last post.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong.

The rest of the post was my reasoning. So you question was answered clearly and comprehensively. Why you feel the need to be deliberate and disingenuous with the truth is anyone's guess.

[sid waddell]

Can you be a member of Sinn Fein in 2020 and believe the PIRA's 1969 - 1997 campaign was wrong?

That it was the wrong strategy, and morally wrong?

And that John Hume and the SDLP were right all along?

What would happen if you went to a Sinn Fein party meeting and expressed these sentiments?

I'm not a SF member.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong. The political establishments in Britain, in the north or Ireland and in the south of Ireland let a violent sectarian oppression of the nationalist community evolve and fester and the Provos were born and everything escalated after that.

Regrettable things happened as they do in any conflict, lots of people laud Mandela as one of the greatest men that ever lived and rightly so but he was terrorist. His organisation killed many people, many innocent people, they used bombs to do so.

The orange ruling class in the O6, the FFG elite ruling class down south and the British establishment are the people responsible for that 30 years of murder and mayhem.

That's not an answer to the question though

Is it a prerequisite, if not in rule but in reality, that every Sinn Fein candidate must agree that the broad thrust of the Provisional IRA's campaign 1969-97 was justified, correct and righteous?

Can one believe that taken as a whole, that PIRA campaign was morally wrong - that the peaceful approach of John Hume and the SDP was the correct one - and be a Sinn Fein candidate, or indeed a party member?

Because it still seems to me that that is the central defining character of today's Sinn Fein and its membership - that what the PIRA did between 1969 and 1997 was correct and righteous

I don't think you can believe the PIRA campaign 1969-1997 was broadly wrong, and be a Sinn Fein member

And that's a problem for Sinn Fein, I think, especially if they want to be a sort of social democratic party of middle Ireland

There's a lack of honesty from Sinn Fein people and supporters surrounding this question

I answered your question clearly and comprehensively.

I'll put in bold for you below. Word for word what I said in the last post.

I don't believe the campaign was wrong.

The rest of the post was my reasoning. So you question was answered clearly and comprehensively. Why you feel the need to be deliberate and disingenuous with the truth is anyone's guess.

You didn't answer the question

You answered a question I didn't ask

I didn't ask whether you supported the PIRA campaign, I don't care whether you did or not

[armaghniac]

SF seem have put forward another character, who is now busy deleting his old tweets alleging that 911 was a conspiracy and the like.
They are definitely slipping, the obvious thing to do was to delete the dodgy tweets before naming the candidate.

[Main Street]

Looks like FG/FF  have put both feet in it again by making the Dail committee meeting about their toothpaste version of history.
The Tipp SF td wiped the floor with their petty politiking.

"I said it is not about apologising or justifying - it was about moving beyond apologies to reconciliation".
"I called for the establishment of a truth and reconciliation process so that everyone can get around the table and discuss what happened and the way forward, because the reality is that every time the past is discussed there will be different views.
"It is our job to build a better future and that is what I intend to be part of."

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1210/1183652-politics-public-petitions-committee/

[Angelo]

Fair play to him.

SF scored an own goal by having Stanley delete his original tweet, there was nothing wrong with it and they should not have rolled over to the absolute scum in the Free State establishment parties who continue to use victims of the troubles as political footballs.