Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[armaghniac]

Jesus it's been a bad week for the Shinners.

They've essentially walked off the pitch as far as the 26 county election is concerned, both for transfers in the election itself or having any role in the government formed. FF will get a few more seats and FG/Lab with a few stragglers will form the next government.

Perhaps they feel that they weren't going into government anyway and the dust will have settled and Gerry will be gone anyway in 5 years time or maybe they haven't a clue.

[heffo]

Jesus it's been a bad week for the Shinners.

They've essentially walked off the pitch as far as the 26 county election is concerned, both for transfers in the election itself or having any role in the government formed. FF will get a few more seats and FG/Lab with a few stragglers will form the next government.

Perhaps they feel that they weren't going into government anyway and the dust will have settled and Gerry will be gone anyway in 5 years time or maybe they haven't a clue.

Adams is clearly a very intelligent man but he either felt that

a) Appeasing ex-Provos in South Armagh was more important than political growth in Rep of Ireland
b) His target market in the Rep of Ireland are die-hard Republicans who don't care about the ongoing political screwups or the uneducated marginalised who don't read broadsheets or listen to RTE1

He needs to go as he's only holding back the party. This guff about about attacking the special criminal court/not swallowing the full apparatus of the state etc just brings back why people wouldn't vote for them in the first place.

[Ulick]

The best thing that could happen Sinn Fein is for Gerry to retire.

Politics on this island will not progress until all politicians who lived through and "participated" in the troubles retire. Too much bitterness and resentment is harboured on all sides.

Get rid of Gerry and the Independent and their ilk will just move onto the next move onto attacking the next leader. No SF leader will be acceptable to the southern establishment much less a northerner.

[Ulick]

Jesus it's been a bad week for the Shinners.

They've essentially walked off the pitch as far as the 26 county election is concerned, both for transfers in the election itself or having any role in the government formed. FF will get a few more seats and FG/Lab with a few stragglers will form the next government.

Perhaps they feel that they weren't going into government anyway and the dust will have settled and Gerry will be gone anyway in 5 years time or maybe they haven't a clue.

Adams is clearly a very intelligent man but he either felt that

a) Appeasing ex-Provos in South Armagh was more important than political growth in Rep of Ireland
b) His target market in the Rep of Ireland are die-hard Republicans who don't care about the ongoing political screwups or the uneducated marginalised who don't read broadsheets or listen to RTE1

He needs to go as he's only holding back the party. This guff about about attacking the special criminal court/not swallowing the full apparatus of the state etc just brings back why people wouldn't vote for them in the first place.

Have you anything to support that assertion?

[heffo]

The best thing that could happen Sinn Fein is for Gerry to retire.

Politics on this island will not progress until all politicians who lived through and "participated" in the troubles retire. Too much bitterness and resentment is harboured on all sides.

No SF leader will be acceptable to the southern establishment much less a northerner.

One without the baggage of the disappeared, the hidden sex abusers and welcomer of Gerry McCabe's killers would be.

Pearse Doherty or Mary Lou are both fine politicians continually undermined by having to excuse the past of their party.

[heffo]

Jesus it's been a bad week for the Shinners.

They've essentially walked off the pitch as far as the 26 county election is concerned, both for transfers in the election itself or having any role in the government formed. FF will get a few more seats and FG/Lab with a few stragglers will form the next government.

Perhaps they feel that they weren't going into government anyway and the dust will have settled and Gerry will be gone anyway in 5 years time or maybe they haven't a clue.

Adams is clearly a very intelligent man but he either felt that

a) Appeasing ex-Provos in South Armagh was more important than political growth in Rep of Ireland
b) His target market in the Rep of Ireland are die-hard Republicans who don't care about the ongoing political screwups or the uneducated marginalised who don't read broadsheets or listen to RTE1

He needs to go as he's only holding back the party. This guff about about attacking the special criminal court/not swallowing the full apparatus of the state etc just brings back why people wouldn't vote for them in the first place.

Have you anything to support that assertion?

My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

[Ulick]

My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

[Rossfan]

However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

They won't to go much, if at all, beyond their current level of support in the 26 while they continue to back the ex militant wrongdoers.
Indeed a lot of their current newer support is coming from anti everything people who love what SF is saying i.e. " Anti everything" and could cuckoo economics.
Their Health document last week was great comedy.

I presume a Pearse or Marylou  in charge would alienate a lot of the old guard up North but would that not be well offset by gaining support from a large cohort of the now non voting younger Nationalist population?

[Maguire01]

My opinion and that of anyone I've spoken to about it this week.

We all have opinions. However if you want to look at the evidence, they got 10% in the last election in the south, 6% in the election before that and will probably get 15-16% in the next election. That decent growth is happening all around the country in area where SF have no real foundations or presence while constantly under attack from what passes as MSM in the south. Those aren't opinions they're the facts of SF progression in the south under Adams. They point to him doing a good job and there's no evidence that I can see of them doing better under anyone else. For example, how would Pearse or Mary Lou taking over affect the Party support in the north or have you factored that into your considerations?

I'd say most people consider McGuinness to be the SF leader in the north since Gerry ventured south, and Doherty or McDonald taking over won't have any great impact in that respect. Despite SF's big sell being that they are an all-Ireland party, the two separate political systems mean that you're always going to effectively have a leader in each jurisdiction.

[Maguire01]

The best thing that could happen Sinn Fein is for Gerry to retire.

Politics on this island will not progress until all politicians who lived through and "participated" in the troubles retire. Too much bitterness and resentment is harboured on all sides.

Get rid of Gerry and the Independent and their ilk will just move onto the next move onto attacking the next leader. No SF leader will be acceptable to the southern establishment much less a northerner.

Someone without the baggage that Adams has, and others of his generation, would make it a lot more difficult for their opponents. For example, Mary Lou could probably have avoided any significant attention on this week's story, if it wasn't for the media looking to see whether she agreed with Adams. Political opponents will always attack - that's the nature of the game. But sometimes it's made fairly easy for them.

[Maguire01]

Arguably the most damaging aspect of this debate is the opposition to the Special Criminal Court (rather than any defence of the individual at the centre of this case).

The right to trial by a jury of your peers is the ideal scenario, but if SF's political opponents highlight to the public the type of cases that SF want members of the public to sit on juries for, then i'd imagine the proportion of people who support that position would be fairly low.

And Adams' saying that judges can sometimes get it wrong? Can juries?

[armaghniac]

Get rid of Gerry and the Independent and their ilk will just move onto the next move onto attacking the next leader. No SF leader will be acceptable to the southern establishment much less a northerner.

If the leader was a competent one promoting half thought out policies then they would hold their own, anti everything policies are never going to persuade sensible people. One problem for SF is that while you can name a few half credible people in the South in an age group who can lead in the future, I can't quite think of any in the North.

[Gaffer]

Mcguinness was praising yer man Slab yesterday for the 'work' he did for the peace process.

Could anyone shed any light as to what this 'work' was?

[ashman]

The current shenanigans won't cost SF much votes in any southern election.  They will poll 15 - 17 % in any national election .  Neither they or Ff want power.

[Rossfan]

They'll be lucky to get 6% in Ros/North Galway.