Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[AQMP]

That's exactly the point I think. It has been coming a long time, so why now? Why not after the local elections? And given that Adams and Mary Lou have both criticised the timing, I think it's fair to say it probably wasn't Gerry's idea. I have no doubt him being led away in cuffs would have been the result if he hadn't come in.

I think you're right here AZ.  It appear the Shinners have been expecting this for a while.  I'd say it was made known to GA that he would be scooped the next time he came into the North or he could come in voluntarily.  He may not have been expecting to be arrested, maybe questioned under caution. 

As for how this unwinds...the evidence of Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price would not be admissible in court, so there is either something in the Boston Tapes that somehow leads directly to Adams, or there is some living person who has incriminated themselves in the Tapes and is willing to give evidence against Adams.  Other than that I'm struggling to come up with a scenario in which Adams would even be charged.

But this is the North, it would be a fool who would predict the future with any degree of certainty!

[Nally Stand]

As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.

An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

[muppet]

As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.

An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

There you go with the mantra again. Tell me who believes 'there were only two victims in the conflict'?

[Nally Stand]

As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.

An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

There you go with the mantra again. Tell me who believes 'there were only two victims in the conflict'?

"Seem to believe". Not to be taken literally. To be taken as a reference to those people who know only two victims names and who don't care anough to learn about any others. Do you have anything to contribute other than disingenuous arguments or putting words in my mouth?

[muppet]

As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.

An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

There you go with the mantra again. Tell me who believes 'there were only two victims in the conflict'?

"Seem to believe". Not to be taken literally. To be taken as a reference to those people who know only two victims names and who don't care anough to learn about any others. Do you have anything to contribute other than disingenuous arguments or putting words in my mouth?

Your arguments are 'hierarchy of victims' and 'seem to believe that there were only two victims in the conflict' and you are complaining about disingenuous arguments. 

Like it or not, the murder of a mother of 9 small children will be big news. Also the murder of a police man is a will also be big news and it used to be a Capital Offence in the South.

What you are trying to do is rubbish these murders and hoping that they somehow go away.

The real issue here is whether Adams was involved or not. I don't see you having much to say on that.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.

An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

You are right that there is a focus on these cases in the republic.  However, I would say that in McCabe case it's stood out for many non-political reasons.

1) The knots that the republican movement tied itself up in with denials, it was/wasn't authorised/it was authorised locally.  To a lot of people this suggested that even the Shinners realised this was different.

2) People couldn't see the motivation for what happened.  It was a fundraising operation why shoot the Gardaí without any engagemetn?  Where they shot for being Gardaí, if so were the IRA not targeting people for being part of the state machinery (ala Northern Ireland Police, soldiers, politicians, building contracters)

3) People in the south are not used to seeing their politicians (Ferris) visiting/collecting cop killers in jail.

Added to the normal outrage of a Garda being shot, those 3 were more than enough to make McCabe a huge issue without any political encouragement.

/Jim.

[AQMP]

I wonder did Adams use his one phone call to phone Downing St to say "Listen , Gerry Adams here, Gerry Adams has been arrested by the PSNI, can you call Matt Baggot and get Gerry Adams released"

[AQMP]

The "legalities" of Adams' arrest:

Gerry Adams was arrested at 20:00 BST on Wednesday under the Terrorism Act 2000

Under the terms of that act, a suspect can be held for a maximum of 28 days before being charged

After the first 24 hours has passed, the police can extend questioning for a further 24 hours if a superintendent says there are sufficient grounds to do so.

However, if a suspect has been held for 48 hours the police then have to go to court to seek an extension of the length of time he or she can continue to be held.

So in this case he could be held until 20:00 BST on Friday before a judge would have to rule on whether he could be held for a further period.

[AZOffaly]

I don't agree with the hierarchy of victims argument that Nally Stand is putting forth, but I don't think there's any doubt that the establishment down here are nervous of Sinn Fein, and would not be slow to use the media to bring cases to the forefront which cause discomfort for Sinn Fein.

Pat Finnucane is probably the only other name which has that level of 'recognition' attached to it, and is not blamed on the IRA,  and other than that it is mostly the bigger atrocities like Bloody Sunday, Greysteel, Omagh and the like.

[Nally Stand]

As an aside, people always talk about hierarchy of victims, and in the 26 counties it's abundantly clear that there is a hierarchy and that Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe sit a long long way ahead anyone else on it. I firmly believe that the majority of people who raise these names at every turn could not name one single other victim of the decades long conflict without resorting to google. And yet it is such people who seem to shout the loudest about what they "know" about the conflict and about Gerry Adams in particular. Should Gerry be released as I expect he will be, it will be a major disappointment to such people and will blow in fairly substantial hole in their entire "knowledge base" of the conflict.

You say this when you mean the exact opposite.

McConville and McCabe are merely an inconvenience to SF, hence the 'hierarchy of victims' mantra. It is simply whataboutery to cloud the issue and most of us see through it.

An "inconvenience"? There could be many others that folks like you would see as being "inconveniences" to SF, but it's Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe are the two names that, thanks to the media, people in the 26 have just latched onto and become experts on and around whom their entire knowledge of the conflict is based. SF don't see such victims as "inconveniences". As Ulick mentioned above, it's SF who have been pushing the subject of the past hardest through Hass.

This is it in a nutshell. Only SF has the right to comment on any IRA murders. The 26 can f*ck themselves.

Ah get over yourself ffs and stop putting farcical words in my mouth. Hass was an all party process. I have no issue with people speaking about victims. What I do have an issue with, are those who seem to believe there were only two victims in the conflict. Or those who believe those two victims are the only two worth talking about and those who use and abuse their two names for political gain under the pretence of giving a rats ass about them.

There you go with the mantra again. Tell me who believes 'there were only two victims in the conflict'?

"Seem to believe". Not to be taken literally. To be taken as a reference to those people who know only two victims names and who don't care anough to learn about any others. Do you have anything to contribute other than disingenuous arguments or putting words in my mouth?

Your arguments are 'hierarchy of victims' and 'seem to believe that there were only two victims in the conflict' and you are complaining about disingenuous arguments. 

Like it or not, the murder of a mother of 9 small children will be big news. Also the murder of a police man is a will also be big news and it used to be a Capital Offence in the South.

What you are trying to do is rubbish these murders and hoping that they somehow go away.

The real issue here is whether Adams was involved or not. I don't see you having much to say on that.

So you believe my claim that there is a "hierarchy of victims" is disingenuous? Well if the mother of 9 children is "big news", and it's disingenuous to suggest there might be a "hierarchy of victims", then how many people in the south do you reckon might know the name the mother of 8, murdered by the state in the Ballymurphy massacre? And if a garda being shot is such a shock to the 26 psyche, how many could name one victim of the 33 men and women blown up in Dublin & Monaghan in May 1974 in the single biggest atrocity of the conflict?

And no, I'm not "wishing murders away". My point in each post, from the very beginning, has been a criticism of the elevation of Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe over every other victim. Including over other IRA victims. I don't really know how often I have to spell that out to you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.

[muppet]

So you believe my claim that there is a "hierarchy of victims" is disingenuous? Well if the mother of 9 children is "big news", and it's disingenuous to suggest there might be a "hierarchy of victims", then how many people in the south do you reckon might know the name the mother of 8, murdered by the state in the Ballymurphy massacre? And if a garda being shot is such a shock to the 26 psyche, how many could name one victim of the 33 men and women blown up in Dublin & Monaghan in May 1974 in the single biggest atrocity of the conflict?

And no, I'm not "wishing murders away". My point in each post, from the very beginning, has been a criticism of the elevation of Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe over every other victim. Including over other IRA victims. I don't really know how often I have to spell that out to you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.

You are doing the opposite. You are relegating their murders as issues by claiming they are part of some other agenda, because they are inconvenient to SF.

[Nally Stand]

So you believe my claim that there is a "hierarchy of victims" is disingenuous? Well if the mother of 9 children is "big news", and it's disingenuous to suggest there might be a "hierarchy of victims", then how many people in the south do you reckon might know the name the mother of 8, murdered by the state in the Ballymurphy massacre? And if a garda being shot is such a shock to the 26 psyche, how many could name one victim of the 33 men and women blown up in Dublin & Monaghan in May 1974 in the single biggest atrocity of the conflict?

And no, I'm not "wishing murders away". My point in each post, from the very beginning, has been a criticism of the elevation of Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe over every other victim. Including over other IRA victims. I don't really know how often I have to spell that out to you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.

You are doing the opposite. You are relegating their murders as issues by claiming they are part of some other agenda, because they are inconvenient to SF.

They are being elevated above others by those with political motives. If you believe that to be untrue then you live on cloud cukoo land.

P.s. The name of the mother of eight, murdered by the the state in Ballymurphy, was Joan Connolly. My desire is not for Jean McConville & Jerry McCabes names to be relegated to Joan's position in hierarchy. Bur for names like Joan's to be given equal attention and to be equally well known.

[muppet]

So you believe my claim that there is a "hierarchy of victims" is disingenuous? Well if the mother of 9 children is "big news", and it's disingenuous to suggest there might be a "hierarchy of victims", then how many people in the south do you reckon might know the name the mother of 8, murdered by the state in the Ballymurphy massacre? And if a garda being shot is such a shock to the 26 psyche, how many could name one victim of the 33 men and women blown up in Dublin & Monaghan in May 1974 in the single biggest atrocity of the conflict?

And no, I'm not "wishing murders away". My point in each post, from the very beginning, has been a criticism of the elevation of Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe over every other victim. Including over other IRA victims. I don't really know how often I have to spell that out to you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.

You are doing the opposite. You are relegating their murders as issues by claiming they are part of some other agenda, because they are inconvenient to SF.

They are being elevated above others by those with political motives. If you believe that to be untrue then you live on cloud cukoo land.

P.s. The name of the mother of eight, murdered by the the state in Ballymurphy, was Joan Connolly. My desire is not for Jean McConville & Jerry McCabes names to be relegated to Joan's position in hierarchy. Bur for names like Joan's to be given equal attention and to be equally well known.

So you do this by rubbishing any investigation into, or coverage of, McConville's murder as being politically motivated, every time the issue arises.

Why not simply put up a thread on the Ballymurphy murders and educate the rest of us?

[AQMP]

Nally (& glens abu if he/she's about)...

if this is a politically motivated arrest and if, as Mary Lou suggested, there are "sinister unionist influenced" elements within the PSNI, can SF credibly continue to call for Republican and Nationalists to support a police force that would contain such elements and would let itself be politically influenced in this way??

[Nally Stand]

So you believe my claim that there is a "hierarchy of victims" is disingenuous? Well if the mother of 9 children is "big news", and it's disingenuous to suggest there might be a "hierarchy of victims", then how many people in the south do you reckon might know the name the mother of 8, murdered by the state in the Ballymurphy massacre? And if a garda being shot is such a shock to the 26 psyche, how many could name one victim of the 33 men and women blown up in Dublin & Monaghan in May 1974 in the single biggest atrocity of the conflict?

And no, I'm not "wishing murders away". My point in each post, from the very beginning, has been a criticism of the elevation of Jean McConville & Jerry McCabe over every other victim. Including over other IRA victims. I don't really know how often I have to spell that out to you. Again, stop putting words in my mouth.

You are doing the opposite. You are relegating their murders as issues by claiming they are part of some other agenda, because they are inconvenient to SF.

They are being elevated above others by those with political motives. If you believe that to be untrue then you live on cloud cukoo land.

P.s. The name of the mother of eight, murdered by the the state in Ballymurphy, was Joan Connolly. My desire is not for Jean McConville & Jerry McCabes names to be relegated to Joan's position in hierarchy. Bur for names like Joan's to be given equal attention and to be equally well known.

So you do this by rubbishing any investigation into, or coverage of, McConville's murder as being politically motivated, every time the issue arises.

Why not simply put up a thread on the Ballymurphy murders and educate the rest of us?

I haven't rubbished any investigation. And the point is that Jean McConvilles and Jerry McCabe's names aren't just dragged up during progess in investigations as you seem to be suggesting. Take a look at your asshole of a Taoiseach. In a comment to Gerry Adams during a debate on Welfare Reform: "I would love to hear you speak the truth about some elements of your past. You might some day tell the truth about the tragedy and the remorse and about the compassion that should have been shown for Jean McConville." So don't try telling me her name isn't used and abused cynically. Likewise, Jerry McCabe's name remains one of the most commonly dragged up in the 6 counties, despite the perpetrators having been tried and convicted years ago. Where is the clamor for the truth behind the real perpetrators of the Dublin/Monaghan bombings? Could even Enda name one of those victims?