Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[Maguire01]

Yes but if he has damaged SF by his comments, and you regard his comments as "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling", then I'm just wondering if you believe Smithwick's report is "unnecessary, callous, hurtful and appalling" too for raising the exact same subject as Adams?

The report didn't major on that particular point. I don't even think there's a reference to it in the detailed conclusions. Therefore why Adams felt he had to draw attention to that point...

[Maguire01]

You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.

What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?

[lynchbhoy]

IRA watched the travels of these two cops on a few occasions and when they headed for dundalk again, the IRA hit them.
easy enough to do so on that alone the IRA were not lying.

it was a war, it was a dirty war - even though the british gov denied it was engaging in a war, the recent revelations to all that denied things like that ever happened proves that nationalist/republican/Irish/catholics in the 6 counties were truthfully saying that innocents were being targeted by colluding death squads made up of unionist/loyalist/security forces/british army.
why so if it wasnt a war!!!

that the two ruc men were killed is no surprise.they were targets , and while I know feck all about then, it would surprise me that they would be 'choir boys' given the antics and sectarian focus the ruc as a whole (as well as gleeful individuals) had on the aforementioned nationalist/republican/irish/catholics for the prev 40+ years.

its wrong to kill. its wrong to do most of the things that both sides did to each other from 1970 onwards - as it was for the unionist/loyalist/colluding security forces to the nationalist/republican/Irish/catholics for decades prior to that.

the unionist/loyalists were protecting 'their' patch. very OTT methods of sectarianism and the 6 county version of apartheid (   )

the N, R, C, I eventually retaliated and both sides indulged in that dirty war.

Adams spoke his mind. if someone else in sf said that, there would not have been as much of a furore.
that adams said it made it sound worse. said feck all really. people want to take offence.
loads of mock horror and indignation.

I personally think that sf would be better off without adams as leader. mary lou or caoimhin o'c prob most likely leaders next- though Pearse the best man they have. Where has murphy from newry gone ? dont hear of him much these days.

all these people died , but their deaths were not in vain as the 6 counties is a far better, more equal place these days.
sad that this was the cost. but that is what it took. it wasnt coming otherwise.
I know this is unpalatable, and I wish it was avoidable.
but look at the picture before 1970 and the picture after 2010.

[Ulick]

Sinn Féin still at 21% even after the two month long media onslaught.

[Applesisapples]

You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.

What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?

I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.

[Myles Na G.]

You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.

What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?

I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.

If Pearse, Connolly, Collins, etc had stayed in their beds that Easter morning, we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland.

[Lar Naparka]

You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.

What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?

I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.

If Pearse, Connolly, Collins, etc had stayed in their beds that Easter morning, we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland.

If the Easter Rising hadn't  taken place, what sort of Ireland , in your opinion, would we have now?

[Rossfan]

You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.

What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?

I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.

If Pearse, Connolly, Collins, etc had stayed in their beds that Easter morning, we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland.

Would we not? Sure the Brit Establishment were so falling over themsevlves to avoid upsetting the Unionists we'd likely have ended up with a "3 Provinces" Home Rule and Ulster ( all of it) being run directly by Westminster.
Here's another IF for you
If the Brits had stood up to the Unionists and the Curragh Mutineers we'd have had an All Ireland Home Rule by 1914(probably with some local arrangements in parts of Ulster) and thus "we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland" or an Easter Rising either.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.

What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?

I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.

If Pearse, Connolly, Collins, etc had stayed in their beds that Easter morning, we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland.

Even though Home Rule Bill had already an opt out clause for Ulster Unionists and UVF was in place to enforce it. Asked you before without answer so once more: why so much weight on 1916 over such factors as above?

/Jim.

[lawnseed]

Actually had the country not been split we would now be in a similar position to scotland with a chance to vote the whole country independant

[Ulick]

Actually had the country not been split we would now be in a similar position to scotland with a chance to vote the whole country independant

Yeah and like Scotland the fecking peasants in the Free State would probably vote to maintain the Union. Like it or not, it was violent republicanism and the British response which radicalised the population (in so far that desiring self-determination is a 'radical' notion).

[deiseach]

Even though Home Rule Bill had already an opt out clause for Ulster Unionists and UVF was in place to enforce it. Asked you before without answer so once more: why so much weight on 1916 over such factors as above?

/Jim.

The answer seems to be that if we'd have full independence without partition of only we'd waited 100 years. Even if we put aside the preposterous idea that 21st century Ulster Unionism is unwilling to fight tooth-and-nail to prevent an independent united Ireland, let alone the 1918 version of it, to accuse politicians of short-sightedness because they weren't willing to wait 100 years to achieve their political goals . . .

[lawnseed]

Richard mccauley and ger form part of mandelas guard of honour at his funeral. What an honour!! Ger is clearly moved by the whole occasion

[Myles Na G.]

You seem to ignore my other comments in relation to the appalling treatment of Padraig MacLochlainn by Vincent Browne and the obnoxious Charlie Flannigan.

What? Appalling that MacLochlainn was challenged after he said the IRA had a "duty" to kill the unarmed (and apparently surrendering) cops? Even though that would constitute a war crime?

I didn't hear him say that, I heard him avoid saying it even though he was harangued by Browne. The uncomfortable truth is that Southern Politicians are lauding the IRA of 1916/22 for killing enemies in a similar fashion to the IRA of the 1950/96 era. This is hypocritical. SF have quite rightly moved away from violence as Catholics have acquired advances in equality. It is nearly 20 years since the cease fire and Flannigan is still raking it up. The Unionist state was formed in violence and the threat of violence. To single out the IRA of more recent vintage is rank hypocrisy. At the end of the day had the blueshirts not abandoned the north for the treaty  the "troubles" would not have happened.

If Pearse, Connolly, Collins, etc had stayed in their beds that Easter morning, we wouldn't have had a partitioned Ireland.

Even though Home Rule Bill had already an opt out clause for Ulster Unionists and UVF was in place to enforce it. Asked you before without answer so once more: why so much weight on 1916 over such factors as above?

/Jim.

In my view, 1916 set us on the road to a divided country. Remember, unionists weren't seeking partition at this point. Carson, in fact, never wanted it at all. By forcing the issue and bringing things to a head, militant republicans polarised opinion in the country and forced unionists into a corner.

[deiseach]

In my view, 1916 set us on the road to a divided country. Remember, unionists weren't seeking partition at this point. Carson, in fact, never wanted it at all. By forcing the issue and bringing things to a head, militant republicans polarised opinion in the country and forced unionists into a corner.

What do you think the Ulster Covenant was about? I'm seriously intrigued at how you can come to the conclusion that it was the Rising that "forced unionists into a corner" given the existence of the Covenant.