The Many Faces of US Politics...

[J70]

BTW stew, you've been spouting off a few times recently on here about the black unemployment rate under Obama and Trump...

I know you are not into trends and statistics, but here's a nice wee straightforward graph for you.

US Unemployment Rate for African Americans age 16 and over

https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000006

[whitey]

If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on

[maigheo]

Jeez Whitey ,Comey did not say the entire dossier was salacious and unverified only the bit about Trumps stay in the hotel in Moscow.Wean yourself off Hannitty for awhile.It will do you good.

Hahahahaha....so if elements of the dossier were salacious and unverified, and the wife of a prominent DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS, and that DOJ official had an "off the record" meeting with Steele, and another "off the record" meeting with Fusion GPS, what would you think if a similiar dossier were used by Republicans to secure a warrant and wiretap Hillarys campaign?

You are missing the point deliberately I suspect.The Dossier was not the sole reason for  obtaining the wiretaps which is in the memo if you bothered to read it.The counter intelligence  investigation was started months before the dossier was written

[whitey]

Jeez Whitey ,Comey did not say the entire dossier was salacious and unverified only the bit about Trumps stay in the hotel in Moscow.Wean yourself off Hannitty for awhile.It will do you good.

Hahahahaha....so if elements of the dossier were salacious and unverified, and the wife of a prominent DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS, and that DOJ official had an "off the record" meeting with Steele, and another "off the record" meeting with Fusion GPS, what would you think if a similiar dossier were used by Republicans to secure a warrant and wiretap Hillarys campaign?

You are missing the point deliberately I suspect.The Dossier was not the sole reason for  obtaining the wiretaps which is in the memo if you bothered to read it.The counter intelligence  investigation was started months before the dossier was written

"Supposedly" under oath, McCabe said that without the dossier the warrant would not have been approved.

We wont know for certain until both his testimony and the warrant application are declassified and released

All types of people are under investigation all the time, but to get a wiretapping warrant on a US Citizen (and by natural extension a political campaign) requires a whole different level of proof

[maigheo]

If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on

we all know now that the memo is not as revealing as touted by the Dems but why is Trump saying that it is deeply troubling and shows major corruption in the FBI.

[maigheo]

Jeez Whitey ,Comey did not say the entire dossier was salacious and unverified only the bit about Trumps stay in the hotel in Moscow.Wean yourself off Hannitty for awhile.It will do you good.

Hahahahaha....so if elements of the dossier were salacious and unverified, and the wife of a prominent DOJ official worked for Fusion GPS, and that DOJ official had an "off the record" meeting with Steele, and another "off the record" meeting with Fusion GPS, what would you think if a similiar dossier were used by Republicans to secure a warrant and wiretap Hillarys campaign?

You are missing the point deliberately I suspect.The Dossier was not the sole reason for  obtaining the wiretaps which is in the memo if you bothered to read it.The counter intelligence  investigation was started months before the dossier was written

"Supposedly" under oath, McCabe said that without the dossier the warrant would not have been approved.

We wont know for certain until both his testimony and the warrant application are declassified and released

All types of people are under investigation all the time, but to get a wiretapping warrant on a US Citizen (and by natural extension a political campaign) requires a whole different level of proof

Supposedly the key word.

[J70]

If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on

What are you talking about? The GOP have led this issue for purely political reasons. Do you think they'd have brought all this info to light if it harmed Trump or he and the White House opposed it? His own Justice Dept opposed it FFS. Once again you focus your outrage on the Dems while the GOP attitude on declassification is staring you in the face!

And how can you can be adamant that Schiff looks like an idiot? You don't even know what's in their memo or what else is going to come out.

And sorry, I don't subscribe to your oft-proclaimed implication of Trump the genius playing 3D chess. This episode may work for him. Or it may not. Especially if he uses it to engineer the eventual removal of Mueller.

[whitey]

If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on

we all know now that the memo is not as revealing as touted by the Dems but why is Trump saying that it is deeply troubling and shows major corruption in the FBI.

"Supposedly", the FBI failed to inform the Judge that the Dossier was a piece of oppostion research gathered by, and paid for by the DNC and the Clinton Campaign. If the judge had that piece of information before reviewing  the warrant application, he/she  may not have approved the warrant.


All Trump is trying to do is stir up enough muck, so that if Mueller does find something (and I think hell find shag all collusion) he can say this is nothing more than a partsan witch hunt fuelled and funded by the DNC

Add in all the texts and the 2 secret meetings between Ohr and Steele/Fusion GPS, and Trump walks away from this relatively unscathed

[whitey]

If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on

What are you talking about? The GOP have led this issue for purely political reasons. Do you think they'd have brought all this info to light if it harmed Trump or he and the White House opposed it? His own Justice Dept opposed it FFS. Once again you focus your outrage on the Dems while the GOP attitude on declassification is staring you in the face!

And how can you can be adamant that Schiff looks like an idiot? You don't even know what's in their memo or what else is going to come out.

And sorry, I don't subscribe to your oft-proclaimed implication of Trump the genius playing 3D chess. This episode may work for him. Or it may not. Especially if he uses it to engineer the eventual removal of Mueller.

Ehhhhh....so now we all need to see McCabes testimony and the FISA warrant to really know whats going on. 

My best guess is that this is just the first domino to fall. There will be a parrallel investigation into the FISA application to distract from Mueller and Trump will emerge relatively unscathed

If Schiff objects to either being released, who'll believe a word out of his mouth based on his histrionics this past week

Hes scared shitless of these documents being released.

Keep in mind, Trump and his cronies know a whole lot more than you and I.....they know whats in these documents and this was a chess move to bring all this stuff out into the public domain

The Steele Dossier was a textbook Clinton/DNC dirty trick.....I have absolutely no problem with the Republicans meeting fire with fire and doing whatever is necessary to xpose it as such

[J70]

If what is in the memo is accurate folks have some 'splainin to do.

Intentionaly misleading or lying a to federal judge in order to obtain a FISA warrant is a serious offense

McCabe supposedly said (under oath) that the FBI likely wouldnt have gotten the warrant were it not for the Steele Dossier. FBI neglected to tell FISA judges that source of the memo-DNC

Indeed.

But maybe we should wait and see (assuming its released) what the other memo says.

All we're getting is partisan spin and noise from both sides, one side crying "worse than Watergate", the other calling it a cherry-picked attempt to muddy the water, and with Trump's own DOJ opposing him on this and yet more of his appointees being lined up for dismissal as the Mueller investigation progresses and gets closer to interviewing himself and asking difficult questions about the conduct of his kids.

What the fvck have Schiff and Pelosi been ranting and raving about for the last week?  They now look like complete idiots.

BTW.....I am all for releasing BOTH memos

Trump is playing them like a fiddle.......next time the Democrats have their hair on fire about the declassification of some document, they wont have a leg to stand on

What are you talking about? The GOP have led this issue for purely political reasons. Do you think they'd have brought all this info to light if it harmed Trump or he and the White House opposed it? His own Justice Dept opposed it FFS. Once again you focus your outrage on the Dems while the GOP attitude on declassification is staring you in the face!

And how can you can be adamant that Schiff looks like an idiot? You don't even know what's in their memo or what else is going to come out.

And sorry, I don't subscribe to your oft-proclaimed implication of Trump the genius playing 3D chess. This episode may work for him. Or it may not. Especially if he uses it to engineer the eventual removal of Mueller.

Ehhhhh....so now we all need to see McCabes testimony and the FISA warrant to really know whats going on. 

My best guess is that this is just the first domino to fall. There will be a parrallel investigation into the FISA application to distract from Mueller and Trump will emerge relatively unscathed

If Schiff objects to either being released, who'll believe a word out of his mouth based on his histrionics this past week

Hes scared shitless of these documents being released.

Keep in mind, Trump and his cronies know a whole lot more than you and I.....they know whats in these documents and this was a chess move to bring all this stuff out into the public domain

The Steele Dossier was a textbook Clinton/DNC dirty trick.....I have absolutely no problem with the Republicans meeting fire with fire and doing whatever is necessary to xpose it as such

As does Schiff.

And there's plenty on the GOP side objecting to the way this all went down.

But, no, less settle on the corrupt Dems/poor desperate GOP finally fighting back version.

BTW, I agree Trump will eventually emerge intact (not unscathed). Whether or not he did anything, the DOJ are not going to charge him, no matter what Mueller finds, even if its more than a pattern of obstruction of justice. And if there's no indictment, we probably won't be getting too many details of Mueller's findings.

[whitey]

So lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment and say John Podesta (who has serious Russian issues himself) was wiretapped while running Hillarys campaign. The FISA warrants for the wiretap were approved in part based on an unverified opposition research memo paid for and directed by the Trump Campaign and the RNC.  Based on what youve said so far, youd be perfectly fine with that???

Oh And while all this is going on a senior DOJ official (under a sitting Republican administration) held 2 secret meetings with the firm that drafted the unverified memo.

[J70]

So lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment and say John Podesta (who has serious Russian issues himself) was wiretapped while running Hillarys campaign. The FISA warrants for the wiretap were approved in part based on an unverified opposition research memo paid for and directed by the Trump Campaign and the RNC.  Based on what youve said so far, youd be perfectly fine with that???

Oh And while all this is going on a senior DOJ official (under a sitting Republican administration) held 2 secret meetings with the firm that drafted the unverified memo.

If the other evidence on Podesta suggested that there were legitimate grounds for concern, absolutely. And I would have no issue with any law enforcement official meeting with such sources to find out what they know.

Which of course is not to say that the rules for disclosure should not be followed.

[sid waddell]

What sort of credibility has Devin Nunes?

Are we talking about somebody who is well known for his integrity here?

Can somebody fill me in here?

[whitey]

So lets put the shoe on the other foot for a moment and say John Podesta (who has serious Russian issues himself) was wiretapped while running Hillarys campaign. The FISA warrants for the wiretap were approved in part based on an unverified opposition research memo paid for and directed by the Trump Campaign and the RNC.  Based on what youve said so far, youd be perfectly fine with that???

Oh And while all this is going on a senior DOJ official (under a sitting Republican administration) held 2 secret meetings with the firm that drafted the unverified memo.

If the other evidence on Podesta suggested that there were legitimate grounds for concern, absolutely. And I would have no issue with any law enforcement official meeting with such sources to find out what they know.

Which of course is not to say that the rules for disclosure should not be followed.

The DOJ official held 2 UNAUTHORIZED and UNDISCLOSED  meetings and was DEMOTED for doing so.

He was not a law enforcement official going about his regular business as you casually implied

And As far as I know he also failed to disclose that his wife worked for Fusion GPS.

The he 2 questions that now need to be answered are:

(1) Woukd and he warrant have been issued without the dossier?

(2) Was it disclosed in the FISA application that the dossier was opposition research paid for by the DNC and the Clinton campaign?

If the answer is no to either (or both) of these question.....then this is a huge win for Trump

[sid waddell]

What sort of reputation has Nunes?

Anybody?

Also, can anybody tell me how long this Carter Page chap was under investigation for, and why he was under investigation?