Shamrock Rovers Ultras

[hoop]

..... that the ground capacity would be 4500. Which seems to me to be the ideal capacity for SR given their average gate.

Nowhere near enough. Shamrock Rovers are sick to the back teeth of GAA people thinking they know how big a stadium Rovers need. Crowds have certainly dwindled over the 20 years without a proper home ground, but why should that rule out the possibility of eventually getting the crowds back up to 8,000 or 9,000 or more?

I'm sure that Thomas Davis would love to keep the capacity as low as possible in order to hinder Rovers success (they have continually stated that it's actually as much about "hearts and minds" as it is about stadium size) but it's hard to know what they want when they REFUSE to show anyone their famous plans which alllegedly only involve minor changes (which is clearly impossible).

[Lone Shark]

..... that the ground capacity would be 4500. Which seems to me to be the ideal capacity for SR given their average gate.

Nowhere near enough. Shamrock Rovers are sick to the back teeth of GAA people thinking they know how big a stadium Rovers need. Crowds have certainly dwindled over the 20 years without a proper home ground, but why should that rule out the possibility of eventually getting the crowds back up to 8,000 or 9,000 or more?

I'm sure that Thomas Davis would love to keep the capacity as low as possible in order to hinder Rovers success (they have continually stated that it's actually as much about "hearts and minds" as it is about stadium size) but it's hard to know what they want when they REFUSE to show anyone their famous plans which alllegedly only involve minor changes (which is clearly impossible).

So not alone should the SDCC/Government build you a stadium, they should build it to your specifications? Start by paying at least 50% of the cost then you can dictate terms. If the courts and the SDCC decide that this stadium which Rovers are going to pay 1% of the cost of and yet be anchor tenants in is appropriate at 4500 capacity, it's not for ye to complain.

Anyway, it's fair to say ye won't go from having crowds of 1,000 in 2006 to having 9,000 in five years. When ye get full houses at 4500 for a few years on the bounce, ye'll have the wherewithal to go where no Eircom league club has gone before - BUILD A STADIUM AND PAY FOR IT YERESELVES!!

[resdubwhite]

I'd agree with Hoop.

If a stadium of any size is oging to be built the capacity of 4500 does nothing for either the GAA or Rovers. For example, a lot of the Boh rovers pats games would get well over 4500.

If it is going to be built it should be over 4,500.

I see the election has been called. Anyone know how Lenihan wil lget on in the area.

[hoop]

So not alone should the SDCC/Government build you a stadium, they should build it to your specifications? Start by paying at least 50% of the cost then you can dictate terms. If the courts and the SDCC decide that this stadium which Rovers are going to pay 1% of the cost of and yet be anchor tenants in is appropriate at 4500 capacity, it's not for ye to complain.

So, so, so predictable. I make a valid point in reply to a comment regarding ground capacity - and what happens??? You move the goalposts again.

The reason this thread has gone on so long is because every single time an argument is made in Rovers favour, somebody pipes up claiming that the discussion is actually about something else entirely.

You may stick to your selfish, bigoted, blinkered views if you want - that's your choice. But PLEASE don't claim to be capable of debate.

[his holiness nb]

[I make a valid point in reply to a comment regarding ground capacity - and what happens??? You move the goalposts again.
The reason this thread has gone on so long is because every single time an argument is made in Rovers favour, somebody pipes up claiming that the discussion is actually about something else entirely.

This from the guys who changed the topic of the thread from the Ultras being knackers to the stadium, then when the going got tough brought up a row at a Tyrone club game to bolster their argument!!

Jesus christ!

"You may stick to your selfish, bigoted, blinkered views if you want - that's your choice. But PLEASE don't claim to be capable of debate"

And you claim moral highground regarding debating capability in the very same sentence as throwing 3 seperate insults!
Wonderful irony  

[tayto]

You may stick to your selfish, bigoted, blinkered views if you want - that's your choice. But PLEASE don't claim to be capable of debate.

There's that word again. By your definition you're a bigot as well sunshine. Imagine people coming up with a counter arguement to your opinion. bigots the lot of them! hahahahah you really are a muppet.

[tayto]

Anyone come up with a counter point to this fella and he flies off the handel lashing out "bigot" this and "bigot" that, then claims we're incapable of debate. ho ho ho

[hoop]

Imagine people coming up with a counter arguement to your opinion

Oh, it was a counter argument, was it???

Funny that - it looked much more like an ill-informed pointless rant to me, which had damn all to do with capacity requirements (apart from the predictable and baseless view that Rovers crowds will never go up).

[deiseach]

Anyone come up with a counter point to this fella and he flies off the handel lashing out "bigot" this and "bigot" that, then claims we're incapable of debate. ho ho ho

I debate
He / she argues
You rant

[tayto]

I'm right
he-she are bigots
you are wrong

[dublinfella]

ye'll have the wherewithal to go where no Eircom league club has gone before - BUILD A STADIUM AND PAY FOR IT YERESELVES!!

thats a ridiculous statement.

scratch the surface and even sensible posters like you ooze snobbery and anti soccer rubbish.

[darbyo]

Nowhere near enough. Shamrock Rovers are sick to the back teeth of GAA people thinking they know how big a stadium Rovers need. Crowds have certainly dwindled over the 20 years without a proper home ground, but why should that rule out the possibility of eventually getting the crowds back up to 8,000 or 9,000 or more?

I'm sure that Thomas Davis would love to keep the capacity as low as possible in order to hinder Rovers success (they have continually stated that it's actually as much about "hearts and minds" as it is about stadium size) but it's hard to know what they want when they REFUSE to show anyone their famous plans which alllegedly only involve minor changes (which is clearly impossible).

Hoop debating an issue usually involves numerous different points within the overall debate you seem to think that when you make an arguement only that should be discussed, I think you previously complained when people veered off the 'central point' that the stadium if built to GAA specifications would affect the atmosphere at SR games!.Anyway to keep you happy I'll return to the capacity arguement, and ignoring the fact that the govt. is paying for most of it, why is a stadium of 4500 nowhere near enough?. No LOI club has a greater average crowd than this so that would suggest that most games would easily be accomodated. Why build a stadium of say 10,000 when that will never be full and only the odd game will have a crowd in excess of 4500. You complain that having a capacity of 4500 rules out the possibility of crowds of 8-9000 coming to games in the future but given rovers recent history and the recent example of shels is'nt the possibility of crowds much less than 4500 going to future games just as likely?

[hoop]

but given rovers recent history and the recent example of shels is'nt the possibility of crowds much less than 4500 going to future games just as likely?

The biggest problem regarding crowds is the fact that the grounds are crap. In fact Tolka Park - our current "home" - is bordering on being a death-trap. Improve the facilities and the crowds will come back. There are LOADS of soccer fans in Ireland. The problem is, most of them just watch it on TV. They compare what they see on telly with the Eircom League grounds they know - and decide not to go.

I'm bemused as to why an argument would be put forward that 4,500 is enough because Rovers never get more at present (factually wrong incidentally - 4,500 is nowhere near enough for an FAI cup semi-final for example). Why do the GAA keep building or expanding grounds without knowing if they'll ever be full? For example, when the re-development of the GAA stadium in Castlebar was being discussed recently, it seemed that nobody seriously believed that it could ever be filled with the new capacity - except maybe for a Bob Dylan concert. I presume that the GAA are just rampant optimists. Fair enough, but then why try to dictate what soccer needs?

[Lone Shark]

ye'll have the wherewithal to go where no Eircom league club has gone before - BUILD A STADIUM AND PAY FOR IT YERESELVES!!

thats a ridiculous statement.

scratch the surface and even sensible posters like you ooze snobbery and anti soccer rubbish.

What the hell?

Look, I'll admit that Hoops remarks about how Rovers shouldn't have to make do with 4500 capacity struck a nerve when put alongside the fact that Rovers are contributing absolutely feck all here (yes, I know, tax defaulting non-wage-paying Rovers made a contribution, and it's not a "zero sum game" whatever the hell that means). However while acknowledging that my response was a bit on the blunt side, why is the idea of a club building their own stadium a "ridiculous statement"? Plus not liking ungrateful moochers hardly counts as snobbery.

but given rovers recent history and the recent example of shels is'nt the possibility of crowds much less than 4500 going to future games just as likely?

The biggest problem regarding crowds is the fact that the grounds are crap. In fact Tolka Park - our current "home" - is bordering on being a death-trap. Improve the facilities and the crowds will come back. There are LOADS of soccer fans in Ireland. The problem is, most of them just watch it on TV. They compare what they see on telly with the Eircom League grounds they know - and decide not to go.

I'm bemused as to why an argument would be put forward that 4,500 is enough because Rovers never get more at present (factually wrong incidentally - 4,500 is nowhere near enough for an FAI cup semi-final for example). Why do the GAA keep building or expanding grounds without knowing if they'll ever be full? For example, when the re-development of the GAA stadium in Castlebar was being discussed recently, it seemed that nobody seriously believed that it could ever be filled with the new capacity - except maybe for a Bob Dylan concert. I presume that the GAA are just rampant optimists. Fair enough, but then why try to dictate what soccer needs?

Castlebar might be planning a stadium a bit bigger than they need, but seeing as the most they'll get is 10% grant aid, I'd say they're entitled to build whatever the hell they want, subject to planning permission.

You on the other hand believe that the taxpayer should finance what you perceive to be the potential crowds at Eircom league games. I'm not doubting what you say, I'm merely saying that it's nothing more than conjecture. You say grounds are the reason - perhaps. Maybe hooligans are the reason? Maybe the fact that soccer fans aren't as tuned into local concerns and ergo the pub will always beat live matches. The fact that TV stations weren't exactly beating the doors down to pay big money for the rights to televise Eircom league suggests that could be the case.

You could be right, and maybe Dublin derbies will have 8,000 supporters at them in years to come - I personally would say that when it's taxpayer money at stake, a little more than a guess from a Rovers fan is required before building stadia to house them. 

[continuity tug]

ill say it again
shamrock rovers followers see this idea of the stadium in tallaght as an extension to their dole money
if a gaa club had some of their support as an extreme right wing group called ultras everyone would be saying to shut them down not give them anything they want