Shamrock Rovers Ultras

[tayto]

ha, good point main street, start with a massive contradiction, accuse GAA fans as a whiole of being fond of generalisations hahahahaha 

This entire thread is full of lazy, stupid generalizations. Get over yourselves.

Right, so, you thought you'd counter those generalisations by jumping right in with one yourself. Good man. Another intellectual heavyweight on our hands.

[snatter]

The best thing to do is get that stadium for free for the GAA instead at a huge increased cost to the taxpayer. Because that is different somehow.

No you muppet, the best thing is to build a municipal stadium for use by all of the major sports clubs in the municipality.

You just can't get it can you? this whole thing is purely about equal treatment and anything else you drag up is just a distraction.
Why should the GAA in south dublin stand by and watch any professional outfit get a free site and a free stadium?
How long do you expect locall gaa lottos to run in order to cover the cost of a similar site and stadium? About the next 1000 years I reckon.

If this was in Nirthern Ireland, this whole dispte would have been ruled illegal under equality grounds two years ago.
I can't believe its still dragging on. One stadium for everybody I say.

[hoop]

ha, good point main street, start with a massive contradiction, accuse GAA fans as a whiole of being fond of generalisations hahahahaha 

This entire thread is full of lazy, stupid generalizations. Get over yourselves.

Right, so, you thought you'd counter those generalisations by jumping right in with one yourself. Good man. Another intellectual heavyweight on our hands.

Do you ever actually write anything intelligent - or do you just sit there hurling childish abuse all day???

[his holiness nb]

Dublinfella,

"and a fight outside a GAA pub"

Are you seriously trying to link this to the GAA?? The world and its mother knows it was Rovers and Bohs fans, thats a pathetic attempt to bring the GAA into it.

I also note that you have neither condemned the banner as mentioned by Hardy OR the chants (within the staduim) about Webbs wife sying of cancer.

No, but the GAA trying to get access to the stadium, now thats scummy 

[tayto]

ha, good point main street, start with a massive contradiction, accuse GAA fans as a whiole of being fond of generalisations hahahahaha 

This entire thread is full of lazy, stupid generalizations. Get over yourselves.

Right, so, you thought you'd counter those generalisations by jumping right in with one yourself. Good man. Another intellectual heavyweight on our hands.

Do you ever actually write anything intelligent - or do you just sit there hurling childish abuse all day???

Well you seem to be having trouble admitting something as simple as how you've totally contradicted yourself in your first post, so is there any point? 

[Hardy]

Rovers never recieved money for the lease and well you know it.

Well, I don't. I got that information from other participants in this discussion, whose word I'd accept. Perhaps they're wrong. If they are, I wonder why this is the first time you've disputed the statement, given that I've re-stated it about three times in the last week in posts that you responded to. But maybe I'm wrong. I humbly apologise for besmirching the pristine financial record of Shamrock Rovers if I am. Perhaps this €1.5M arises because of confusion with the €1.5M-odd they got from the Dept. of Sport.

One way or the other, they have, to date, got at least this €1.5M-odd,  whether it was for the return of the lease or for the building of a dozen-or-so concrete pillars (for which, I understand, the contractor is yet to be fully paid). We won't even bother our heads with the trifling €10,000 rent that seems to have been unpaid for the five years when they "owned" the lease.

It's now estimated that it will cost at least €11M to complete the stadium. Total cost – at least €12.5M. Shamrock Rovers' contribution to date (as proudly estimated by their spokesman recently)? €100,000! That equates to government funding of 99.2%. OK not quite a free stadium, then. 

(That's being generous and taking your word that the lease was returned without payment. And ignoring the unpaid rent).

So your line Rovers are getting something from the state and thats a disgrace. Scandalous. The best thing to do is get that stadium for free for the GAA instead at a huge increased cost to the taxpayer. Because that is different somehow.

Surreal stuff.

Blast and snatter have demolished this argument pretty comprehensively. No need to add anything.

[magickingdom]

Dublinfella:
"The hand that feeds is being withdrawn"


there is a good chance that in 2 months time there will be a different gov, there is a near certainty that there will be a different minister for sport. john o donoghue 'promise' will have been kept to the best of his ability and the new guy will do his thing whatever that is. that is what tds 'won' in the high court.....

what guarantee do you have that anyone else will side with TD? no political party has supported the GAA position....

but at least you accept TD are only interested in delaying the project

tds are interested in getting access to a prime site in tallaght to promote gaa. i think they have a good chance of getting that in the medium term...

[dublinfella]

The best thing to do is get that stadium for free for the GAA instead at a huge increased cost to the taxpayer. Because that is different somehow.

No you muppet, the best thing is to build a municipal stadium for use by all of the major sports clubs in the municipality.

You just can't get it can you? this whole thing is purely about equal treatment and anything else you drag up is just a distraction.
Why should the GAA in south dublin stand by and watch any professional outfit get a free site and a free stadium?
How long do you expect locall gaa lottos to run in order to cover the cost of a similar site and stadium? About the next 1000 years I reckon.

If this was in Nirthern Ireland, this whole dispte would have been ruled illegal under equality grounds two years ago.
I can't believe its still dragging on. One stadium for everybody I say.

Its not a free site and its not a free stadium. Rovers paid the same amount for the site per acre the GAA paid in Rathcoole. But again, when the GAA get a cheap plot and make a balls of it its 'different'.

If you are so interested in 'equality' you will have no problem with Cork City playing in Pairc Ui Caoimh, a local authority owned pitch that has recieved capital funding? The proposed Kerry LOI side in Killarney, a local authority owned pitch that has recieved capital funding? Etc Etc. No doubt its 'different' when the GAA get exclusive use a council pitch.

One stadium for everybody? Are you saying rule 42 should go? Or is it that the GAA should get to choose what other sports facilities it gets to use and not have to reciprocate? Again, its 'different'.

Hypocricy is a horrible trait.

Swimming, golf, tennis and joyriding are major sports in the area too, while we are on the equality theme, why arent they allowed in? The council are entitled to make decisions about who gets to use certain facilities and they have decided the cost is prohibitave to include a full size GAA pitch, in much the same logic that they arent putting in a golf driving range, it doenst fit.

Stop pretending there is some idelogical anti-GAA force at play.

[Lone Shark]

Here's a question for the assorted Rovers Heads, just to turn the debate around for a moment.

Based on previous posts from Rovers fans on this thread, apparently:

1 - Rovers have a hardcore of fans in their thousands who attend every home game - 3000 appears to be the figure bandied about most
2 - Even if we dismiss as nonsense this idea that they would "fill" this stadium 40 times a year, they have a lot of use for it.
3 - Rovers are now a fully fledged community organisation with considerable roots all across Tallaght
4 - Rovers have a dedicated hardcore of 400+ club members who were willing to fight tooth and nail to save the club
5 - Rovers' financial recording and auditting is now above reproach, with every i dotted and every t crossed.
6 - Rovers supporters clearly will not be comfortable with groundsharing with Dublin GAA and Thomas Davis in particular, if it works out like that. Whether that is the minority view is not relevant, since there clearly is a significant disruptive rump, and not an awful lot emanating by way of will to get rid of them.
7 - Rovers now have a huge amount of juvenile teams


Now with all that going on, here's something I don't get. GAA clubs across the land, many with less members than Rovers 400, certainly many with less members with that (supposed) amount of zeal, and certainly who could never dream of the regular cashflow associated with thousands of paying viewers every few weeks, TV money, sponsorshid from a huge DIY concern and everything else Rovers have going, have been able to get up off their arses and build their own facilitites. You know, those facilities ye boys like to give out about us getting grants for, after we've done 80% of the work ourselves.

Would any Rovers supporter here like to tell me why Rovers aren't just building their own ground, fundraising on the back of all the good will ye say he have, borrowing on the back of this cashflow (20 games * €15 * 3000 = €900k p.a.), selling ten year tickets to these hardcore fans, selling naming rights and applying for regular capital grants, the same way every other club does?

Ye clearly don't want to groundshare with the GAA, anyone with any sense can tell that this is a possibility after the election, ye're missing out on the financial security that comes with ye're own ground, and ye're now on the up after promotion.

Now this may seem harsh, but the only reasons I can think of for not wanting to do this are:

(1) The numbers ye've given for the amount of local support ye have is waffle - ye're actually not that popular around Tallaght at all.
(2) Ye're a shower of lazy hoors who can't be arsed.
(3) The psychology of begging in irish soccer is so deeply ingrained ye can't think of an alternative
(4) Ye know another bankruptcy is only a matter of time and God forbid all those people ye screwed over before like the taxpayers of Ireland would actually have a solid asset to seize.

Please enlighten me as to why ye aren't taking this course of action. Please note anything along the lines of "Do you know how much land costs in Dublin" and "our members have already contributed so much we can't look for more" is standard bullshit for people who don't want to come out and say number 2 above. Dublin GAA clubs do it all the time, plus land ain't exactly free everywhere else in the country.

[Main Street]

If you are so interested in 'equality' you will have no problem with Cork City playing in Pairc Ui Caoimh, a local authority owned pitch that has recieved capital funding?

Cork GAA are listed as the owners of Pairc ui Caoimh.
Im sure CCFC fans could fit easily into one section behind the goals. Cork City FC, if that's their name this year, is a privately owned soccer club, could surely fill out their own forms and submit them them to the Sports Council and apply for grants.

[dublinfella]

Loan Shark, there is zero, none, nada possibility of TD getting this facility redisigned for senior GAA. None. Banning a minister from your clubhouse is one surefire way of killing what little political capital you have left. If people are assuming a coalition win and Jimmy Denehan as minister for sport will automatically change the stance, they are being at best naive.

Another deliberate mistake is that Rovers are willing to share with the GAA, they just dont want the stadium, butchered for a senior pitch. And would you trust Kennedy after his email to Bailey stating that sharing would be a 'strategic' move with a view to having them removed in the medium term?

Shamrock Rovers offered to finish the stadium themselves when TD stuck their spoke in, but SDCC are committed to building the facility as is with Rovers as anchor tenents, Italian style. They accept that the previous board squandered their ownership of the faciltiy and have invested so much time and money into becoming part of the Tallaght community that it would be a massive blow to up sticks and leave now.

That and its vital for sports funding in this country that TD lose the case so they are fighting this as a proxy for the FAI and their right to build facilities with capital grants. And conversley, the GAA's right to use state lands (Park Ui Caoimh being an obvious example)

Which 80% have TD done in relation to Tallaght stadium by the way?

[Lone Shark]

Loan Shark, there is zero, none, nada possibility of TD getting this facility redisigned for senior GAA. None. Banning a minister from your clubhouse is one surefire way of killing what little political capital you have left. If people are assuming a coalition win and Jimmy Denehan as minister for sport will automatically change the stance, they are being at best naive.

Right, here's your first problem - most of this board knows me as a betting man - so I tend to call people on it when they make statements like this. If I was to stipulate then that you will lay me a bet, say €500 at sporting odds of 10/1, on an senior adult GAA match taking place in Tallaght Stadium within 6 months of any soccer kick off, bets void if the stadium never gets built, you will oblige me? I can fix it up through a betting office, betfair or a solicitor, whichever you prefer. I am deadly serious about this by the way - this is not a WUM. If it is in fact zero, none, nada possibility, then you can't lose.

Shamrock Rovers offered to finish the stadium themselves when TD stuck their spoke in, but SDCC are committed to building the facility as is with Rovers as anchor tenents, Italian style. They accept that the previous board squandered their ownership of the faciltiy and have invested so much time and money into becoming part of the Tallaght community that it would be a massive blow to up sticks and leave now.

This is completely sidestepping the question. First of all I find it bizarre that Shamrock Rovers offered to pay for and complete the stadium with no government assistance and that has gone completely unmentioned - is that actually true?

Secondly, you haven't answered my question - I didn't ask you why the SDCC are acting as they are - I asked you why in the current circumstances Rovers don't get up off their holes and do it themselves, thereby securing their future.

Which 80% have TD done in relation to Tallaght stadium by the way?

Of course they haven't - if they needed a stadium and were homeless, they would have done - this is about both providing an extra facility for well attended club games on the southside, offering some relief for overworked Kiltipper pitches and making sure they don't lose a competitive advantage in their attempts to sell gaelic games to the kids in the area. However they are not homeless, so that's not the issue.

Now enough of your "by the way" - why are Rovers not building their own home, why must the state do it?

And more importantly, how are we going to work this bet?

[hoop]

Well you seem to be having trouble admitting something as simple as how you've totally contradicted yourself in your first post, so is there any point? 

Okay - I'll re-phrase that. GAA heads ON THIS FORUM are very fond of generalization. The bile being hurled at Rovers here is unreal. So you all hate Rovers? Fair enough. But do you have to spread so much bullshit and lies??? Have you all got a problem with FACTS???

[hoop]

I'm bemused as to why GAA fans think that they can argue their way in to the stadium by throwing figures around. The SDCC have decided to build a municipal stadium for a multitude of uses and users - with Shamrock Rovers as anchor tenants, paying for the privilege of playing there - money that will cover the cost of running the stadium for all other users.

A perfectly logical (and legal) set-up. It's the same story in two other Dublin municipal stadiums - Morton and Irishtown - where the anchor tenants are athletics clubs.

Councils decide what to build and for whom. That's their job. It's called democracy.

Thomas Davis aren't simply arguing for inclusion - they are arguing for wanton destruction and the creation of a botched facility - in other words, a stupid and illogical waste of money.

If they get their way, you end up with a one-sided stadium (with car-parking space halved) and the fans of the anchor tenant club watching their team from a ludicrous distance. Fans standing at the front of the terracing behind the goal (assuming it's even built) will be 30 yards away from the pitch!

If a GAA pitch was compatible with a soccer pitch, then this discussion wouldn't be taking place. The stadium would be long-since finished. But they're not compatible.

Why can't GAA fans simply consider what Thomas Davis ARE ACTUALLY PROPOSING - instead of trying to blind us all with extremely one-sided and highly suspect mathematics?

[stephenite]

Okay - I'll re-phrase that. GAA heads ON THIS FORUM are very fond of generalization. The bile being hurled at Rovers here is unreal. So you all hate Rovers? Fair enough. But do you have to spread so much bullshit and lies??? Have you all got a problem with FACTS???

Point out where anyone has posted bullshit and lies, please?