Westminster Election 12th December 2019

[marty34]

Where to next for the UUP voter. FST is a case apart as the reported UUP vote includes DUP supporters. But in a number of constituencies (East Belfast, south Antrim and Lagan Valley) they can roll in behind Alliance and dislodge DUP. In a few more a similar give from say SDLP (East Antrim) or SDLP + Green (Strangford) will dislodge DUP. The move in moderate unionism is well underway. Moderate nationalism could well do the same. Tactical voting by natural SF supporters would accelerate all of this

All well and good LC, but what difference will it make if there are 5 SDLP, 5 Al and 5 SF mps to 3 unionist mps for example.  It'll make no difference in London with 650 odd mps.

Only time will be a hung parliament but parties lose run of themselves when this happens e.g. DUP.

Wales have 40 mps with 3m population but north has 18 mps with 1.8 m of population.  How are they worked out?

[Main Street]

Okay, is it just me or is nobody talking about the fact that the Tories did not win the popular vote? They got 43.6% of the vote. In a PR voting system the pro-Remain vote would have been even stronger and this would have been a hung parliament.

If your Granny had balls she'd be your grandad!

Labour lost and instead of changing the rules they need to figure out how they haven't won an election agains the worst incumbent Govt in history.

Exactly. I like Corbyn but if you can not oust what is probably the most unscrupulous of prime ministers in the history of prime ministers, and that is saying something, then you have no chance. Yes media smear etc etc but a leader needs conviction in his beliefs and he did not display this in his campaign.

Labour went all left wing

They needed to move to a centrist position with a very simple message.
People don't read manifestos
They will only remember slogans and dirt on the opponents

Labour should have been attacking the clearly racist Tories and what they have done with their 9 years in power
How many billions already wasted on brexit?

Left wing?? Have you read the Labour manifesto?  It's about as radical as the conservative social democrat manifesto in Scandanavia. England and Ireland for that matter, are both so socially and economically backward  that a basic political policy on social and economic issues is regarded with horror

Min wage - at least GBP10/ph 
Share in company profit, max GBP 500 p/a dividend.The French have a more progresssive dividend system in law since 2011.

Free childcare -  no means test, is more expansive than other countries

Increase worker security
Ban zero hour contract along with a long list of other worker related, basic bog standards civil rights.
Dump the punitive universal credit
Left wing my hole,  thats basic  common sense.

[Mikhail Prokhorov]

Where to next for the UUP voter. FST is a case apart as the reported UUP vote includes DUP supporters. But in a number of constituencies (East Belfast, south Antrim and Lagan Valley) they can roll in behind Alliance and dislodge DUP. In a few more a similar give from say SDLP (East Antrim) or SDLP + Green (Strangford) will dislodge DUP. The move in moderate unionism is well underway. Moderate nationalism could well do the same. Tactical voting by natural SF supporters would accelerate all of this

All well and good LC, but what difference will it make if there are 5 SDLP, 5 Al and 5 SF mps to 3 unionist mps for example.  It'll make no difference in London with 650 odd mps.

Only time will be a hung parliament but parties lose run of themselves when this happens e.g. DUP.

Wales have 40 mps with 3m population but north has 18 mps with 1.8 m of population.  How are they worked out?

if that happens, they won't be going to london 

[manfromdelmonte]

Okay, is it just me or is nobody talking about the fact that the Tories did not win the popular vote? They got 43.6% of the vote. In a PR voting system the pro-Remain vote would have been even stronger and this would have been a hung parliament.

If your Granny had balls she'd be your grandad!

Labour lost and instead of changing the rules they need to figure out how they haven't won an election agains the worst incumbent Govt in history.

Exactly. I like Corbyn but if you can not oust what is probably the most unscrupulous of prime ministers in the history of prime ministers, and that is saying something, then you have no chance. Yes media smear etc etc but a leader needs conviction in his beliefs and he did not display this in his campaign.

Labour went all left wing

They needed to move to a centrist position with a very simple message.
People don't read manifestos
They will only remember slogans and dirt on the opponents

Labour should have been attacking the clearly racist Tories and what they have done with their 9 years in power
How many billions already wasted on brexit?

They didn't understand what was going on in the working class seats they lost in the North of England. The election was basically a transfer of 60 Labour seats to the Tories and some Tory losses.

Racism won seats for the Tories in working class areas. It's a culture war.

Yep.

been amazed at the average voter blaming labour held councils for the poor state of local services

Give the Tories a chance some of them even said

[Rossfan]

Heard 1 English bolx on the News saying he didn't vote Labour because Corbyn wouldn't sing the National Anthem or bow to the Queen.

[Kidder81]

Okay, is it just me or is nobody talking about the fact that the Tories did not win the popular vote? They got 43.6% of the vote. In a PR voting system the pro-Remain vote would have been even stronger and this would have been a hung parliament.

If your Granny had balls she'd be your grandad!

Labour lost and instead of changing the rules they need to figure out how they haven't won an election agains the worst incumbent Govt in history.

Exactly. I like Corbyn but if you can not oust what is probably the most unscrupulous of prime ministers in the history of prime ministers, and that is saying something, then you have no chance. Yes media smear etc etc but a leader needs conviction in his beliefs and he did not display this in his campaign.

Labour went all left wing

They needed to move to a centrist position with a very simple message.
People don't read manifestos
They will only remember slogans and dirt on the opponents

Labour should have been attacking the clearly racist Tories and what they have done with their 9 years in power
How many billions already wasted on brexit?

They didn't understand what was going on in the working class seats they lost in the North of England. The election was basically a transfer of 60 Labour seats to the Tories and some Tory losses.

Racism won seats for the Tories in working class areas. It's a culture war.

Not really true and if you have been paying attention about polling and evidence from Labour canvassers and journalists who were on the ground you probably know that but it's the type of attitude of ignoring the reasons for being obliterated will lead to Labour remaining out of power for the foreseeable

[Armagh18]

Eastwood's pledge was "he'll stop Brexit", if elected.

That was on the assumption of a hung parliament.

Pearse Doherty the best of the T.D.'s.  Doing great works on the mortgage crisis/banks and only this week, super work on car insurance.

Agreed. An underrated character. The likes of him and Máirtín Ó Muilleoir are excellent leadership material.

Mary Lou and Michelle out, Pearse and John in if we want to get anywhere.

[balladmaker]

Eastwood's pledge was "he'll stop Brexit", if elected.

That was on the assumption of a hung parliament.

Pearse Doherty the best of the T.D.'s.  Doing great works on the mortgage crisis/banks and only this week, super work on car insurance.

Agreed. An underrated character. The likes of him and Máirtín Ó Muilleoir are excellent leadership material.

Mary Lou and Michelle out, Pearse and John in if we want to get anywhere.

Michelle should be moved off centre stage, communication is everything and unfortunately she struggles in that regard imo.  When watching JF's victory speech it came to mind there is a future leader of Republicanism .... smart, articulate and very likeable.

[seafoid]

Okay, is it just me or is nobody talking about the fact that the Tories did not win the popular vote? They got 43.6% of the vote. In a PR voting system the pro-Remain vote would have been even stronger and this would have been a hung parliament.

If your Granny had balls she'd be your grandad!

Labour lost and instead of changing the rules they need to figure out how they haven't won an election agains the worst incumbent Govt in history.

Exactly. I like Corbyn but if you can not oust what is probably the most unscrupulous of prime ministers in the history of prime ministers, and that is saying something, then you have no chance. Yes media smear etc etc but a leader needs conviction in his beliefs and he did not display this in his campaign.

Labour went all left wing

They needed to move to a centrist position with a very simple message.
People don't read manifestos
They will only remember slogans and dirt on the opponents

Labour should have been attacking the clearly racist Tories and what they have done with their 9 years in power
How many billions already wasted on brexit?

They didn't understand what was going on in the working class seats they lost in the North of England. The election was basically a transfer of 60 Labour seats to the Tories and some Tory losses.

Racism won seats for the Tories in working class areas. It's a culture war.

Yep.

been amazed at the average voter blaming labour held councils for the poor state of local services

Give the Tories a chance some of them even said

We don't seem to know much about the ads the Tories used in those Labour seats.

Overall it  reminds me of the 2007 election in the South. Fianna Fail and the Greens went into coalition and were delighted. The country had a current account deficit of 5% of GDP and a property bubble. It was living beyond its means. Foreigners were funding the spending. FF didn't have a notion. Then there was a crash. FF haven't been in government since.

The UK has a current account deficit and a property bubble.

[Armagh18]

Eastwood's pledge was "he'll stop Brexit", if elected.

That was on the assumption of a hung parliament.

Pearse Doherty the best of the T.D.'s.  Doing great works on the mortgage crisis/banks and only this week, super work on car insurance.

Agreed. An underrated character. The likes of him and Máirtín Ó Muilleoir are excellent leadership material.

Mary Lou and Michelle out, Pearse and John in if we want to get anywhere.

Michelle should be moved off centre stage, communication is everything and unfortunately she struggles in that regard imo.  When watching JF's victory speech it came to mind there is a future leader of Republicanism .... smart, articulate and very likeable.

Yeah think he's going to go to the top. Excellent politician.

[smelmoth]

Hanna and Eastwood will be articulate MPs who will explain the nationalist position in London very well.  All necessary to keep progressing towards a New Ireland.  In contrast, what is the point of MPs like Micky Brady and Francie Molloy.  I literally couldn't tell you what they do from one week to the next.

Hanna and Eastwood will make no difference in London - Eastwood said he'll stop Brexit, if elected. Good luck with that a chara! 

Hanna, on the other hand, is likeable but as they were saying on the radio today, she is too nice - full of general soundbites but where does she stand on a re-united Ireland etc.  Won't commit or rock the boat.  Be neutral and bei g everybody's friend won't go on forever.

what difference do SF MLAs make?
What difference do SF MPs make?
What difference do SF TDs make?

Are they fraudsters ?

Eastwood's pledge was "he'll stop Brexit", if elected.

A day later, he's re-evaluating his statement.

They'll make no difference in London - simple as.  You should read some of my other messages re: SF.

Pearse Doherty the best of the T.D.'s.  Doing great works on the mortgage crisis/banks and only this week, super work on car insurance.

As I stated before, cllrs. do more work for local people than MLAs or MPs - they make a difference locally.

Are you seriously suggesting that the people of Foyle believed that Eastwood was claiming he would stop Brexit even if Johnson had an majority of 80? They didn't believe that. You don't believe that. Your line of reasoning is daft beyond measure.

I'll have to plead ignorance on Doherty. I don't doubt he has talent but I'm unaware what he has delivered? Happy to illuminated

[imtommygunn]

Okay, is it just me or is nobody talking about the fact that the Tories did not win the popular vote? They got 43.6% of the vote. In a PR voting system the pro-Remain vote would have been even stronger and this would have been a hung parliament.

If your Granny had balls she'd be your grandad!

Labour lost and instead of changing the rules they need to figure out how they haven't won an election agains the worst incumbent Govt in history.

Exactly. I like Corbyn but if you can not oust what is probably the most unscrupulous of prime ministers in the history of prime ministers, and that is saying something, then you have no chance. Yes media smear etc etc but a leader needs conviction in his beliefs and he did not display this in his campaign.

Labour went all left wing

They needed to move to a centrist position with a very simple message.
People don't read manifestos
They will only remember slogans and dirt on the opponents

Labour should have been attacking the clearly racist Tories and what they have done with their 9 years in power
How many billions already wasted on brexit?

They didn't understand what was going on in the working class seats they lost in the North of England. The election was basically a transfer of 60 Labour seats to the Tories and some Tory losses.

Racism won seats for the Tories in working class areas. It's a culture war.

Not really true and if you have been paying attention about polling and evidence from Labour canvassers and journalists who were on the ground you probably know that but it's the type of attitude of ignoring the reasons for being obliterated will lead to Labour remaining out of power for the foreseeable

Exactly. It's like parties here. Accountability needs to be taken for losing votes. It's the easiest thing in the world for the dup to say it was due to a pan nationalist front and for labour to say it was brexit or little englander mentality. That may have played a part but there are many reasons for the obliteration of these parties - a lot of which fall at their own doorstep.(sf and brexit too)

The dup will crank up the divisive rhetoric I expect but have their head in the sand. Labour firmly have their head buried in the sand .

[smelmoth]

Okay, is it just me or is nobody talking about the fact that the Tories did not win the popular vote? They got 43.6% of the vote. In a PR voting system the pro-Remain vote would have been even stronger and this would have been a hung parliament.

If your Granny had balls she'd be your grandad!

Labour lost and instead of changing the rules they need to figure out how they haven't won an election agains the worst incumbent Govt in history.

Exactly. I like Corbyn but if you can not oust what is probably the most unscrupulous of prime ministers in the history of prime ministers, and that is saying something, then you have no chance. Yes media smear etc etc but a leader needs conviction in his beliefs and he did not display this in his campaign.

What Brexit position should he have taken in this election?

Labour has 2 constituencies. They have polarised views on the leading issue. Any view of Corbyn, the manifesto, the campaign or next steps needs to address the key issue

[smelmoth]

Okay, is it just me or is nobody talking about the fact that the Tories did not win the popular vote? They got 43.6% of the vote. In a PR voting system the pro-Remain vote would have been even stronger and this would have been a hung parliament.

If your Granny had balls she'd be your grandad!

Labour lost and instead of changing the rules they need to figure out how they haven't won an election agains the worst incumbent Govt in history.

Exactly. I like Corbyn but if you can not oust what is probably the most unscrupulous of prime ministers in the history of prime ministers, and that is saying something, then you have no chance. Yes media smear etc etc but a leader needs conviction in his beliefs and he did not display this in his campaign.

Labour went all left wing

They needed to move to a centrist position with a very simple message.
People don't read manifestos
They will only remember slogans and dirt on the opponents

Labour should have been attacking the clearly racist Tories and what they have done with their 9 years in power
How many billions already wasted on brexit?

Left wing my arse.

Is Angela Merkel hard left?

[smelmoth]

Where to next for the UUP voter. FST is a case apart as the reported UUP vote includes DUP supporters. But in a number of constituencies (East Belfast, south Antrim and Lagan Valley) they can roll in behind Alliance and dislodge DUP. In a few more a similar give from say SDLP (East Antrim) or SDLP + Green (Strangford) will dislodge DUP. The move in moderate unionism is well underway. Moderate nationalism could well do the same. Tactical voting by natural SF supporters would accelerate all of this

All well and good LC, but what difference will it make if there are 5 SDLP, 5 Al and 5 SF mps to 3 unionist mps for example.  It'll make no difference in London with 650 odd mps.

Only time will be a hung parliament but parties lose run of themselves when this happens e.g. DUP.

Wales have 40 mps with 3m population but north has 18 mps with 1.8 m of population.  How are they worked out?

I heard the same view in Roscommon during the last Dail election. What was the point of sending Roscommon lads up to that there Dublin? Sure they were never going to be a majority. I guess it's just one of the unfairnesses in representative democracy