Westminster Election 12th December 2019

[seafoid]

The Tories have to deliver in Bolsover and Stoke Central. In a lot of cases the Labour vote collapsed.
It could return if the Tories f**k up the next few years.

[Milltown Row2]

Listening to 5 live tonight most commentators and voters in those strong labour seats that changed hands will be voting back labour next time, purely a brexit and protest voting strategy

[Main Street]

Personally quite gutted at the results in England and Wales. It's clear this was about Brexit and the people in those areas are steadfastly determined to jump off the cliff. I find it astonishing but I can understand it given the wall to wall coverage it has received.

As usual some unfair and inaccurate comment on Corbyn. I think he has done a tremendous job in making Labour stand for something again. I believe completely in the policies put forward and I know they are the only solution to growing wealth inequality, the jobs timebomb and the climate crisis. Eventually the people will realise this - hopefully before it's too late. I don't think he lost the election on his policy platform - the policies are popular. Brexit meant all bets were off. The Tories, like Trump in 2016, worked out what had to be said to win and the did it relentlessly. A winning strategy perhaps but that's a sad reflection on where we're at I'd say. Corbyn will go but Labour must stay the course with a modern social democratic alternative. Nothing worse than a country with two main parties offering the same.

The silver lining to the cloud is that a United Ireland is closer. I only hope and pray when it comes about we've moved away from the Varadkar/Murphy Tory style politics on this island and our kids get the United Ireland that brave people a century ago envisioned.

Its not about Brexit, its about racism and the uneducated little englander blaming Johnny Foreigner for all his woes.

Corbyn's policies were so popular he lost the election by a massive margin! A hard left LabCorbyns policies how can you be so sure about what type ofour is going nowhere fast. Only a centre left Labour will be returned to power anytime soon. They should write this off as a failed experiment.

Johnson's carefully engineered  perception of being a typical sneering anti-muslimite enhanced his profile somewhat among all strata of the English.
Re Labour's economic policy,  was that a major issue of concern which explains why possible Labour voters did not vote Labour this time? I think not. The main issue in this election was brexit, get brexit done and there will be bliss. Pre election, Labour had already walked into a trap sabotaging the process of parliament by opposing everything brexit. The Conservative party would eventually be able to call a general election, could then go to the electorate solely on the brexit isssue, win the election hands down with their fix brexit platform.  Labour had  floundered when opposing everything brexit in parliament and efffectively ignored the main issue of the election after it was called, vainly tried to switch the focus on the sociol & economic platform.
That's mainly where the perception of mistrust in Corbyn came from, his endless dithering over Brexit, not Labours economic platform.

Just my impression.

[smelmoth]

Personally quite gutted at the results in England and Wales. It's clear this was about Brexit and the people in those areas are steadfastly determined to jump off the cliff. I find it astonishing but I can understand it given the wall to wall coverage it has received.

As usual some unfair and inaccurate comment on Corbyn. I think he has done a tremendous job in making Labour stand for something again. I believe completely in the policies put forward and I know they are the only solution to growing wealth inequality, the jobs timebomb and the climate crisis. Eventually the people will realise this - hopefully before it's too late. I don't think he lost the election on his policy platform - the policies are popular. Brexit meant all bets were off. The Tories, like Trump in 2016, worked out what had to be said to win and the did it relentlessly. A winning strategy perhaps but that's a sad reflection on where we're at I'd say. Corbyn will go but Labour must stay the course with a modern social democratic alternative. Nothing worse than a country with two main parties offering the same.

The silver lining to the cloud is that a United Ireland is closer. I only hope and pray when it comes about we've moved away from the Varadkar/Murphy Tory style politics on this island and our kids get the United Ireland that brave people a century ago envisioned. 

It's not inaccurate seanie Corbyn was/is a disaster and if the Labour party blame this defeat solely on Brexit they will never recover. Corbyn may well stand for something (Farage and Tommy Robinson stand for plenty too) and that's fine but the public don't want it so either they package up the same policies but get somebody better to sell them to the public or they need to change tack altogether!!

Correct, would be very arrogant to think its solely about Brexit. Interesting times ahead for the Labour party, the powers that be will want Corbyn to hang around whilst they maintain control.

In the seats Labour lost they were down 13%. 2% lost to Tories. 11% lost to Brexit Party. Hard to substantiate any argument that Brexit is not the overwhelmingly dominant issue

[smelmoth]

Corbyn's personality might have been an issue. But it's his politics that really hindered Labour.

It's arriving on me that England's deep culture is neither socialist nor liberal, and the only way for Tory opposition to compete is to largely mirror Tory policy, and make it a personality contest.

Gawd help us

[thewobbler]

When you consider that the only Labour politician, since the 1960s, to come to office with a majority of more than 3 is New Labour's Tony Blair, Brexit is basically an easy excuse for those in denial.

England doesn't like to go beyond the centre in its politics. Go left, and you gift elections to the right.

[smelmoth]

Iv all the non tories voted as a single bloc. would they have enough to vote down a gov. bill?

Tories have a majority

[smelmoth]

Personally quite gutted at the results in England and Wales. It's clear this was about Brexit and the people in those areas are steadfastly determined to jump off the cliff. I find it astonishing but I can understand it given the wall to wall coverage it has received.

As usual some unfair and inaccurate comment on Corbyn. I think he has done a tremendous job in making Labour stand for something again. I believe completely in the policies put forward and I know they are the only solution to growing wealth inequality, the jobs timebomb and the climate crisis. Eventually the people will realise this - hopefully before it's too late. I don't think he lost the election on his policy platform - the policies are popular. Brexit meant all bets were off. The Tories, like Trump in 2016, worked out what had to be said to win and the did it relentlessly. A winning strategy perhaps but that's a sad reflection on where we're at I'd say. Corbyn will go but Labour must stay the course with a modern social democratic alternative. Nothing worse than a country with two main parties offering the same.

The silver lining to the cloud is that a United Ireland is closer. I only hope and pray when it comes about we've moved away from the Varadkar/Murphy Tory style politics on this island and our kids get the United Ireland that brave people a century ago envisioned.

Its not about Brexit, its about racism and the uneducated little englander blaming Johnny Foreigner for all his woes.

Corbyn's policies were so popular he lost the election by a massive margin! A hard left Labour is going nowhere fast. Only a centre left Labour will be returned to power anytime soon. They should write this off as a failed experiment.

Election was lost in the north. Lost votes to the Brexit Party. In the south the vote held up.

The only thing that was going to win those northern seats was a hard leave, anti immigration position. A killer in the south

[Eamonnca1]

Blair 1.0: Deregulate the private sector, tax the resulting economic growth, and use the revenue to fund better public services.
Blair 2.0: Start a war in Iraq because it worked fine with the Kosovo business. What could possibly go wrong?

Blair 1.0 had a winning strategy which is why Labour never lost an election with him as their leader.
Blair 2.0 had developed a God complex, was convinced of his invincibility, blundered into GW Bush's foreign policy clusterf***k, and undermined any trust that the Brits had in politics, which played no small part in fueling Brexit. He may even have fueled Scottish separatism with his devolution work, John Major swore he'd never touch that with a ten-foot pole. In hindsight Major might have been right from a unionist point of view. If there were no Scottish Parliament then Nicola Sturgeon would still be back at Square 1 at this point and clamouring for devolution, instead of standing on Square 2 and calling for the next step which is full independence. Cameron showed that if you go around making short term political moves by making big constitutional gambles, it can come back to bite you in ways you never predicted.

What Labour needs now is a Blair 1.0-type figure, but the memory of Blair 2.0 means that "New Labour" is as damaged a brand as the Michael Foot / Corbynista variety. It's hard to see how Labour can get out of this mess. It took Neil Kinnock and John Smith the best part of a decade to turn the party around to lay the foundations of Blairism.

And you can forget about the Lib Dems restoring their reputation for a while, they probably peaked under Clegg. The first-past-the-post system doesn't lend itself to small parties coming from nowhere to dominate the scene.

[BennyCake]

Won't there be a messy divorce if Scotland leave the UK, akin to Brexit?

What would be the deal regarding shipping with imports/exports in and out of Scotland? Where would goods go in and out from? Is there major ports to deal with that like there is in England?

What about goods to and from NI to Stranraer? If Scotland leave, would a bigger/quicker route from Belfast to England be needed to avoid goods being checked twice?

[smelmoth]

Hanna and Eastwood will be articulate MPs who will explain the nationalist position in London very well.  All necessary to keep progressing towards a New Ireland.  In contrast, what is the point of MPs like Micky Brady and Francie Molloy.  I literally couldn't tell you what they do from one week to the next.

Hanna and Eastwood will make no difference in London - Eastwood said he'll stop Brexit, if elected. Good luck with that a chara! 

Hanna, on the other hand, is likeable but as they were saying on the radio today, she is too nice - full of general soundbites but where does she stand on a re-united Ireland etc.  Won't commit or rock the boat.  Be neutral and bei g everybody's friend won't go on forever.

what difference do SF MLAs make?
What difference do SF MPs make?
What difference do SF TDs make?

Are they fraudsters ?

[smelmoth]

Personally quite gutted at the results in England and Wales. It's clear this was about Brexit and the people in those areas are steadfastly determined to jump off the cliff. I find it astonishing but I can understand it given the wall to wall coverage it has received.

As usual some unfair and inaccurate comment on Corbyn. I think he has done a tremendous job in making Labour stand for something again. I believe completely in the policies put forward and I know they are the only solution to growing wealth inequality, the jobs timebomb and the climate crisis. Eventually the people will realise this - hopefully before it's too late. I don't think he lost the election on his policy platform - the policies are popular. Brexit meant all bets were off. The Tories, like Trump in 2016, worked out what had to be said to win and the did it relentlessly. A winning strategy perhaps but that's a sad reflection on where we're at I'd say. Corbyn will go but Labour must stay the course with a modern social democratic alternative. Nothing worse than a country with two main parties offering the same.

The silver lining to the cloud is that a United Ireland is closer. I only hope and pray when it comes about we've moved away from the Varadkar/Murphy Tory style politics on this island and our kids get the United Ireland that brave people a century ago envisioned.

Its not about Brexit, its about racism and the uneducated little englander blaming Johnny Foreigner for all his woes.

Corbyn's policies were so popular he lost the election by a massive margin! A hard left Labour is going nowhere fast. Only a centre left Labour will be returned to power anytime soon. They should write this off as a failed experiment.

Spot on. If Labour doesn't learn from this they'll be in the wilderness until another Blair-like figure emerges.

Massive decision for Labour. There isn't a simple answer that resonates with the (post) industrial north and the southern youth that did turn out and vote

[Eamonnca1]

Good work, Fionn.

All this talk about SF's vote being down on before. Most of their losses were in uncompetitive seats where they were either guaranteed to win or guaranteed not to. Jamie Bwyson shouldn't read too much into it. Votes in PR elections are more relevant if you want to start making predictions about future border polls.

[whitey]

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/boris-johnson-would-struggle-prime-17415156?fbclid=IwAR37yopPxj_p28zxNHsqCC7ipJ7UgI78zckp4xrbq6L1lxAqcr-WE5BxOao

LOL

[seafoid]

What is likely to be the next Unionist seat to fall to Nationalists ?