Westminster Election 12th December 2019

[Rossfan]

Most of them dont think if ye at all, if they even know ye exist

[marty34]

Anyone see the Johnson v Corbyn debate that was on tonight? Who won?

Pretty awful truth be told. Julie Etchingham was way out of her depth, interrupted them too many times. To many stupid, silly questions but yet felt rushed.
It suited Boris who was able to duck proper scrutiny.

What wold you give each other for Christmas FFS, she should get her P45.

Yeah Etchingham was pretty awful alright.
I think there is no option but to have that format though. Otherwise it would just be Brexit, Brexit, Brexit....and nothing else.
Boris actually has nothing to say other than soundbites, "get Brexit Done", "Dither and delay"....no substance at all, just constant mud slinging.
JC I thought made more of an effort to discuss policy and to keep the focus on Labour rather than constantly point the finger at the opponent (though he did a little of that too with the redacted document).
Whilst there may not have been a "winner", for me it strengthened my opinion that JC is genuine and I feel I can trust that he believes what he's saying. Whereas Boris comes across as always saying whatever is the popular answer to a question regardless of whether or not it is truthful. He's dishonest and an outright liar, IMO.

The question on personal integrity was telling, Boris couldn't answer it.

The tories renaming their twitter account to FactCheckUK during the debate is one of the most obvious attempts to dupe the public I've ever seen. They have no shame in playing dirty propaganda trick.
Absolute tragedy if they are returned with a majority in my opinion, but it wouldn't surprise me with the little Englanders.

They will deserve everything they get and more if they vote for Boris. I mean anyone with an ounce of sense could tell Boris is lying. When asked about integrity and people who worked for Boris came forward and said you cant trust him it should tell you everything you need to know. In addition the tories changed their bloody twitter name to con people.

Given how thick the people in England seem to be at the minute I fully expect Boris to win.

People in England? We return MPs who don't go to Westminster and another bunch who believe the world is only 6000 years old. I know people in GB might make poor choices but they are certainly not on their own. What do you think the Brits and others across Europe think about us?

What do you expect MPs to do?  Very small cog in a very big wheel.  Civil servants makes the decisions.

[magpie seanie]

I am absolutely stunned at the reportage of the debate last night. Johnson was a complete joke. Kept repeating the same stock phrases, kept turning every question around to Brexit and constantly ignored the moderator's calls when his time was up. Crowd openly laughed at him when he had the neck to say the truth mattered.....he was just awful.

The only criticism I'd give the moderator was that when she asked Corbyn about anti-semitism in the Labour party, she should have asked the man who compared muslim women to letterboxes about islamophobia. She clearly had set times that the politicians were alloqwed to speak for and she stuck rigidly to this which I've no problem with. Corbyn at least tried to shorten his answers, Johnson seemed incapable of this as all his answers were designed to get back to his catchphrases.

To call it an even discussion is laughable. However, that doesn't particularly matter. The more ordinary people see of Corbyn the better. They'll see, like last night, he's a good, decent man who has solid thought out policies aimed at benefitting everyone and not the monstrous ogre the constant smears in the British media have him painted as. It's a monumental challenge to take on all that and the virtually unchecked streams of lies coming from the Tories but I still think Labour can do it. If they don't, it's bad news for the UK and also us here in the ROI.

[trailer]

Anyone see the Johnson v Corbyn debate that was on tonight? Who won?

Pretty awful truth be told. Julie Etchingham was way out of her depth, interrupted them too many times. To many stupid, silly questions but yet felt rushed.
It suited Boris who was able to duck proper scrutiny.

What wold you give each other for Christmas FFS, she should get her P45.

Yeah Etchingham was pretty awful alright.
I think there is no option but to have that format though. Otherwise it would just be Brexit, Brexit, Brexit....and nothing else.
Boris actually has nothing to say other than soundbites, "get Brexit Done", "Dither and delay"....no substance at all, just constant mud slinging.
JC I thought made more of an effort to discuss policy and to keep the focus on Labour rather than constantly point the finger at the opponent (though he did a little of that too with the redacted document).
Whilst there may not have been a "winner", for me it strengthened my opinion that JC is genuine and I feel I can trust that he believes what he's saying. Whereas Boris comes across as always saying whatever is the popular answer to a question regardless of whether or not it is truthful. He's dishonest and an outright liar, IMO.

The question on personal integrity was telling, Boris couldn't answer it.

The tories renaming their twitter account to FactCheckUK during the debate is one of the most obvious attempts to dupe the public I've ever seen. They have no shame in playing dirty propaganda trick.
Absolute tragedy if they are returned with a majority in my opinion, but it wouldn't surprise me with the little Englanders.

They will deserve everything they get and more if they vote for Boris. I mean anyone with an ounce of sense could tell Boris is lying. When asked about integrity and people who worked for Boris came forward and said you cant trust him it should tell you everything you need to know. In addition the tories changed their bloody twitter name to con people.

Given how thick the people in England seem to be at the minute I fully expect Boris to win.

People in England? We return MPs who don't go to Westminster and another bunch who believe the world is only 6000 years old. I know people in GB might make poor choices but they are certainly not on their own. What do you think the Brits and others across Europe think about us?

What do you expect MPs to do?  Very small cog in a very big wheel.  Civil servants makes the decisions.

No they don't.

[marty34]

Name me 10 fantastic MPs and why?

[oneflewoverthecuckoonest]

Trust
NHS
Vote Tory get Trump

The Tories are vulnerable

this election has nil to do with the NHS...in mainland UK it is all about Brexit.

the NHS is a bottomless pit and labour trying to focus this election on it is gaining no traction whatsoever.....

Thankfully a Tory majority is on the horizon, Boris can get the Brexit deal done and dusted, and then a Border Poll is accelerated.

I am sensing reading this forum, that you nordies who are supposedly united irelanders, are more castle catholics than true green and golders.........you all want a united Ireland arising from a smooth transition.........that will never happen......several of you would appear to prefer the status quo, than take the temporary suffering which would be the fallout of a positive vote for a UI.

[armaghniac]

I think it is an impeccably nationalist position to wish for the formation of a United Ireland to be driven by Irish people and not the English.

[trailer]

I don't think they're "fantastic" which is so subjective but MPs who've made significant contributions

Mark Durkan - Forced the British Gov to admit that if NI voted to unite with ROI they would be re-accepted into the EU without application process. Called out the SF and British dirty deal to give amnesty to Soldiers and Terrorists involved in the Troubles.

Aneran Bevan - Minister for Health

Parnell - Leader of Irish Nationalism

Leo Abse - Proposed Homosexual law reform

John Bercow - There's a case to be made here for how he has steered the Brexit debate

Seamus Mallon - Patten report was improved of the back of Mallon's work in the Commons

LSH - While a Unionist has fought as the lone NI Remain voice despite quite a vitriol from the DUP.

Jess Phillips
Iain Blackforth
Maidri Black

That's just off the top of my head. And you can pick holes and say they did that and this one did this and so on and so on. Such is the luxury of those on the sideline who don't have to make a stand.

No Minister is universally popular and they will have to make decisions that will make them unpopular or popular with their base. But they make decisions nonetheless and sometimes it's those unpopular decisions that we remember them for so perhaps electing MPs to go and argue in our favour isn't a bad idea. After all this is exactly what SF do in the Dail and in Brussels.

I support a United Ireland but to think it can be achieved by disengaging with the British state isn't a credible position. After all, the new Ireland will require significant support both politically and monetary from the UK Government.

[GiveItToTheShooters]

I don't think they're "fantastic" which is so subjective but MPs who've made significant contributions

Mark Durkan - Forced the British Gov to admit that if NI voted to unite with ROI they would be re-accepted into the EU without application process. Called out the SF and British dirty deal to give amnesty to Soldiers and Terrorists involved in the Troubles.

Aneran Bevan - Minister for Health

Parnell - Leader of Irish Nationalism

Leo Abse - Proposed Homosexual law reform

John Bercow - There's a case to be made here for how he has steered the Brexit debate

Seamus Mallon - Patten report was improved of the back of Mallon's work in the Commons

LSH - While a Unionist has fought as the lone NI Remain voice despite quite a vitriol from the DUP.

Jess Phillips
Iain Blackforth
Maidri Black

That's just off the top of my head. And you can pick holes and say they did that and this one did this and so on and so on. Such is the luxury of those on the sideline who don't have to make a stand.

No Minister is universally popular and they will have to make decisions that will make them unpopular or popular with their base. But they make decisions nonetheless and sometimes it's those unpopular decisions that we remember them for so perhaps electing MPs to go and argue in our favour isn't a bad idea. After all this is exactly what SF do in the Dail and in Brussels.

I support a United Ireland but to think it can be achieved by disengaging with the British state isn't a credible position. After all, the new Ireland will require significant support both politically and monetary from the UK Government.

A united Ireland will require financial and political support from Britain? Are you for real?

[trailer]

I don't think they're "fantastic" which is so subjective but MPs who've made significant contributions

Mark Durkan - Forced the British Gov to admit that if NI voted to unite with ROI they would be re-accepted into the EU without application process. Called out the SF and British dirty deal to give amnesty to Soldiers and Terrorists involved in the Troubles.

Aneran Bevan - Minister for Health

Parnell - Leader of Irish Nationalism

Leo Abse - Proposed Homosexual law reform

John Bercow - There's a case to be made here for how he has steered the Brexit debate

Seamus Mallon - Patten report was improved of the back of Mallon's work in the Commons

LSH - While a Unionist has fought as the lone NI Remain voice despite quite a vitriol from the DUP.

Jess Phillips
Iain Blackforth
Maidri Black

That's just off the top of my head. And you can pick holes and say they did that and this one did this and so on and so on. Such is the luxury of those on the sideline who don't have to make a stand.

No Minister is universally popular and they will have to make decisions that will make them unpopular or popular with their base. But they make decisions nonetheless and sometimes it's those unpopular decisions that we remember them for so perhaps electing MPs to go and argue in our favour isn't a bad idea. After all this is exactly what SF do in the Dail and in Brussels.

I support a United Ireland but to think it can be achieved by disengaging with the British state isn't a credible position. After all, the new Ireland will require significant support both politically and monetary from the UK Government.

A united Ireland will require financial and political support from Britain? Are you for real?

Yes. This is widely accepted by all Nationalist parties. What is your proposal? That the ROI pays financially alone? Without even UK government political support?

[marty34]

I don't think they're "fantastic" which is so subjective but MPs who've made significant contributions

Mark Durkan - Forced the British Gov to admit that if NI voted to unite with ROI they would be re-accepted into the EU without application process. Called out the SF and British dirty deal to give amnesty to Soldiers and Terrorists involved in the Troubles.

Aneran Bevan - Minister for Health

Parnell - Leader of Irish Nationalism

Leo Abse - Proposed Homosexual law reform

John Bercow - There's a case to be made here for how he has steered the Brexit debate

Seamus Mallon - Patten report was improved of the back of Mallon's work in the Commons

LSH - While a Unionist has fought as the lone NI Remain voice despite quite a vitriol from the DUP.

Jess Phillips
Iain Blackforth
Maidri Black

That's just off the top of my head. And you can pick holes and say they did that and this one did this and so on and so on. Such is the luxury of those on the sideline who don't have to make a stand.

No Minister is universally popular and they will have to make decisions that will make them unpopular or popular with their base. But they make decisions nonetheless and sometimes it's those unpopular decisions that we remember them for so perhaps electing MPs to go and argue in our favour isn't a bad idea. After all this is exactly what SF do in the Dail and in Brussels.

I support a United Ireland but to think it can be achieved by disengaging with the British state isn't a credible position. After all, the new Ireland will require significant support both politically and monetary from the UK Government.

A united Ireland will require financial and political support from Britain? Are you for real?

Have they made a real difference to our lives???

Bercow - you're having a laugh...lol...because of how he steered Brexit.  He really has impacted on my life...not.  Joke.

They make no difference to our lives in reality.  I see you must be SDLP by your love in with Durkan and Mallon. 

MPs make no real difference.  Cllrs. do a better job: if I have a problem with a pot hole, they sort it.  People might think that's silly but it's true.  They have more of an impact on my day life than an MP.

[GiveItToTheShooters]

I don't think they're "fantastic" which is so subjective but MPs who've made significant contributions

Mark Durkan - Forced the British Gov to admit that if NI voted to unite with ROI they would be re-accepted into the EU without application process. Called out the SF and British dirty deal to give amnesty to Soldiers and Terrorists involved in the Troubles.

Aneran Bevan - Minister for Health

Parnell - Leader of Irish Nationalism

Leo Abse - Proposed Homosexual law reform

John Bercow - There's a case to be made here for how he has steered the Brexit debate

Seamus Mallon - Patten report was improved of the back of Mallon's work in the Commons

LSH - While a Unionist has fought as the lone NI Remain voice despite quite a vitriol from the DUP.

Jess Phillips
Iain Blackforth
Maidri Black

That's just off the top of my head. And you can pick holes and say they did that and this one did this and so on and so on. Such is the luxury of those on the sideline who don't have to make a stand.

No Minister is universally popular and they will have to make decisions that will make them unpopular or popular with their base. But they make decisions nonetheless and sometimes it's those unpopular decisions that we remember them for so perhaps electing MPs to go and argue in our favour isn't a bad idea. After all this is exactly what SF do in the Dail and in Brussels.

I support a United Ireland but to think it can be achieved by disengaging with the British state isn't a credible position. After all, the new Ireland will require significant support both politically and monetary from the UK Government.

A united Ireland will require financial and political support from Britain? Are you for real?

Yes. This is widely accepted by all Nationalist parties. What is your proposal? That the ROI pays financially alone? Without even UK government political support?

Since when has all these nationalist parties you speak of accepted British interference even in a united Ireland? A united ireland that still means the UK has an input in our politics? I must have missed that one...
The UK government can't even get their own mess in order without suggesting they're going to be needed over here in the event of a united Ireland. 
After the UK leaves the EU, a united Ireland economy inside the EU would grow by over 35 billion inside the first few years alone. So it's not a case of whether the south can afford us, but it makes economic sense for everyone.

[6th sam]

"I... swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.

Members who object to swearing the oath are permitted to make a solemn affirmation under the terms of the Oaths Act 1978:

I... do solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law."

The SF position is they are not prepared to swear or affirm true allegiance to the British Queen. Though I would prefer representation in Westminster, this would involve Chris Hazzard taking the oath/affirmation, and his position is clearly that he won't do that , as a matter of principle. Whereas  SDLP are
Mandated to follow this British directive for the benefit of their constituents, SF are also mandated not to take this oath/affirmation.
Those that would berate SF for taking this understandable position ( given their raison d'etre) are perhaps missing the point, clearly agreed in the GFA: ie that both identities are on an equal footing here. However elected representatives from the Irish community here are expected to take an oath/affirmation of allegiance to a foreign monarch in order to represent their constituents in Parliament. Of note , this non-elected monarch must also be leader of a particular religion . This position like many things here which don't have the British and Irish identities on an equal footing , is actually in contravention with the spirit and wording of the internationally accepted GFA, as I see it.
I would actually agree that several SDLP politicians have and continue to have a major positive impact on political progress here. It seems to me that most in the perceived Irish tradition in the North are caught between 2 stools, 1. To drive towards a UI and make NI ungovernable and 2. To allow a UI to happen gradually whilst not neglecting the important things :jobs/education/health/rights.
Those 2 "factions" in the Irish community unfortunately have been prone to targeting each other as opposed to isolating the DUP and trying to convince unionists and ROI that an All-Island solution is workable. Both factions would agree on most things including respect and fostering of the British tradition within any All-Island solution . The biggest block to progress , which will be unpalatable to many in SF, is the anger about the IRA campaign. Regardless of any perceived justification for that campaign, a large proportion of people were traumatised and embittered by it. If we are going to get unionists engaged with the possibility of an All-Island solution 3 things need to happen: 1. The economic argument has to be compelling and Britain will have to part finance the transition 2. Republicanism will have to better explain the reasons for their campaign and apologise for the hurt with genuine remorse 3. Unionism and the British state will have to recognise and apologise for their conduct ( discrimination, state killings, collusion, lack of respect for the Irish identity) in 100 years of the failed sectarian-based NI.
It's quite simple what republicanism has to do and must visibly show understanding and empathy for victims and the unionist position. The challenge for Britain/unionism is similar but as they are currently "in power" they must visibly Be seen to promote the equal value of the British and Irish traditions here., as per the GFA. One big step in that regard would be altering the parliamentary oath/affirmation for those MPs with an Irish identity

[RadioGAAGAA]

A united Ireland will require financial and political support from Britain? Are you for real?

Of course it will!

Or do you think the ROI should be on the hook for the pensions of civil servants who have been working for the British government for 30 years?

[6th sam]

A united Ireland will require financial and political support from Britain? Are you for real?

Of course it will!

Or do you think the ROI should be on the hook for the pensions of civil servants who have been working for the British government for 30 years?

Britain wouldn't expect to simply Offload the failed economic entity which is NI, without considerable financial transition monies. Economically Britain would be so delighted to offload NI that they would be happy to bankroll the transition handsomely , if it put an end to the historic conflict between these islands, by finishing the heavily subsidised sectarian partition of this island.