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They helped Kildare too. But they also got us back on track in the longer term which costs less.

See the issue is that if the GAA didn't get involved and stood off, allowing vultures in, the same man would be SCATHING of the GAA.

But in this case the GAA are the vulture fund.

Snappy tabloid headline, true if they were pocketing the profits, but the distribution of it doesn't = vulture fund

Tyrone are talking themselves up as All Ireland contenders again and coming up against a fairly patched up Armagh who was poor for half the match against a Division four Antrim. It's very much Tyrone's game to lose.

For 12 months all we've heard about is the strength and depth of this Armagh squad, is this not the case?
Armagh's Sam to lose

As they have it, it is theirs to lose, Derry won't be finding it anytime soon.

Tyrone are talking themselves up as All Ireland contenders again and coming up against a fairly patched up Armagh who was poor for half the match against a Division four Antrim. It's very much Tyrone's game to lose.

For 12 months all we've heard about is the strength and depth of this Armagh squad, is this not the case?
Armagh's Sam to lose

As they have it, it is theirs to lose, Derry won't be finding it anytime soon.

Be careful what you say flowerpot. These Derry men are sensitive since they've lost their nouveau riche status.

Tyrone are talking themselves up as All Ireland contenders again and coming up against a fairly patched up Armagh who was poor for half the match against a Division four Antrim. It's very much Tyrone's game to lose.

For 12 months all we've heard about is the strength and depth of this Armagh squad, is this not the case?
Armagh's Sam to lose

[led by a Derry man]

One other problem: you are allowing a small committee to have complete say over the entire game.  It appears they've been given carte blanche to do whatever they like.  Is there any time limit to FRC activities or is their dictatorial power over the game open ended?

Thus the goal is more entertainment and more action.  The FRC believes Kerry hitting long balls to David Clifford to be good for the game...which is fine.  When Ethan Rafferty, and other Ulster goalkeepers, run riot through opposing defences the FRC suddenly isn't interested in more excitement and scoring and put a stop to it.  You see the problem?  The FRC is picking winners and losers.

No major sport has ever overhauled its entire game like the GAA has just done.  Normally it's one rule change, to test the waters, then another and so on.  The National Football League has been desperate to get more offence into its game.  Every rule change going back to the 1970s has been in favour of the offence and to handicap the defence.  They've finally accomplished what they wanted: all offence, all passing and all action.  What the NFL took decades to do, the GAA is trying to do in months.  Football traditionalists will tell you both organisations have one goal: to destroy the offence-defence balance.  In other words, ruin the game.

I'm not trying to say who is right or wrong.  Obviously I'm in the camp of the traditionalists but that doesn't mean I'm right.  I'm simply trying to point out that a sport with the history and tradition of Gaelic football needs to mind that history and tradition and keep an eye on the long term consequences of any changes.

The moment you open Pandora's Box and allow so many changes at once, you open the door to endless changes.  Isn't that a slippery slope?

The FRC was given a remit to make gaelic football the best amateur sport in the world to watch and play.
There are fairly rigorous governance structures in place which all the new rules had to progress through and a lesser process for subsequent tweaks.
The reason why there has been such a radical overhaul of rules all at once is because of the very strict timelines imposed by Congress on the trialling of new rules.
New rules can only be introduced once every 5 years. These trial rules which were approved by special congress last October are in place until October this year. Congress (or special congress) will vote on the final package, it is probable that what we see now will see significant amendment before a final package of changes is agreed. I don't agree that the FRC is picking winners and losers based on geographical bias, if you look at the membership, there's balanced representation from all regions and indeed the gaa president who instigated the review is an Armagh man. They are reacting to feedback and statistical evidence.
They have a statistical unit analysing a large number of games from this year and comparing versus previous year's data (I believe this unit is led by a Derry man?).
The data and the feedback from their ongoing public surveys has shaped the initial proposals and the subsequent tweaks. My understanding is that no more tweaks are proposed prior to the final package being agreed for the October vote.
If we really want to shape the decisions then I think it's important to complete the feedback surveys on an ongoing basis (it's not a one and done thing and remains open) and probably more importantly, make sure that your county's delegates to the October vote understand your county's position and can articulate that position in a manner that can influence delegates.

Up Derry!

@ Eoin, "both organisations have one goal.....ruin the game."

Really?

Rules need tweaking and 1 major one (long lottery kickouts) scrapped, but it's a much much better spectacle atm imo... I've started watching more games again, the last 10 years it was only really games I had an emotional attachment to

How many clean catches in 40 plus kickouts?

I can't find stats but there were plenty of clean catches by McGurn and Murdock...

Are you saying the 10 yard chip out to an unmarked corner back is more skilful?? How many of those did we used to get?

I'd rather have a scrappy contest for 50/50 ball in midfield than the 10 yard chip!

Sure if you're a neutral. If you're supporting a team there's no way you'd rather 50/50 balls than guaranteed possession? Especially if the opposition is winning the kickouts constantly

If you subscribe to the belief that every time a team has a shot (a wide or a score) then their opponent should be permitted to gain unchallenged possession, then you're correct.

The real question though surrounds why anyone would subscribe to that belief.

Why would it be unchallenged? Without the option of passing back to the keeper, there's far more incentive to press hard on kickouts. This would still be the case without the unnecessary kickout arc.

Exactly

Is this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.

That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.

You're following the wrong sport if you don't think that was good...and it bucketing. Better than good, a great game.

Absolutely.
The moany brigade are gone beyond painful at this stage.

Insufferable - their default position is negative.

Is this what people really want? Utter incompetence from teams and referees glorified because it's dramatic? Lowest common denominator for idiots.

That game ended up close. The football played was, by and large, disgracefully bad.

You're following the wrong sport if you don't think that was good...and it bucketing. Better than good, a great game.

Absolutely.
The moany brigade are gone beyond painful at this stage.

Superb contest

But sure according to you, teams were using the same tactics as what he brought into the game up until these new changes were implemented. Hardly left behind.
Derry was always a bad fit. For both sides. Louth improved under his watch, Offaly will too. He's still a good manager. That hasn't changed.

Agreed.. Find it astonishing that a Tyrone man would continously slag the man off, 3 AI's ffs #brollylite I suppose

You can't ask me to single out 3 - it's like asking me which child is my favourite

The most difficult one yet. Saturday Night Fever is amongst my favourite ever movies and have seen it so many times I've lost count.

Stayin' Alive - you can never tire of the opening credits from Saturday Night Fever.

How Deep Is Your Love

Massachussets

Ask tomorrow and I'll swap the last 2 for any of Nights on Broadway, Night Fever, New York Mining Disaster 1941, If I Can't Have You...

Have never seen Saturday Night Fever before, just IMDB'd it, a Pegi18... Saucy?

See McGregor spoofing away for 50mins on Carlson.Does it not worry them about criminal and civil convictions. Suppose the lad in the white house, As many convictions as him.

I only saw a clip but jesus it was ridiculous. Carlson claiming ireland isn't a democracy because you need the backing of 20 oireachtas members. As if any joe soap could run in America and not need a ridiculous amount of finance behind them.

2 mins 15 secs is all I could take. Think for a second of what we all have compared to many... 2 absolute ba11bags.
Was at a Damien Dempsey concert recently, now there's a man to listen to. Compassionate, full of love and good will to fellow men / woman

He'll hand it back next time

If he is allowed, boys like you should be on the Sunday Game, it was all shite now it's all wonderful, don't dare say any different.

I acknowledge there are still tweaks needed but you reap what you sew destroying our game for over 10 years, so don't be girning now as GAA football minds like Jim Gavin have the almost impossible job of fixing it.

Jim Gavin a part of that problem, no?https://hoganstand.com/Forum/Details/108122?County=National&PageNumber=0&TopicID=108122

Why would you be shooting from that far out and wasting possession 95% of the time?

[Fermanagh just home from a training week in Portugal.]

Very very low key build up to Fermanagh V Down.
Can't see there being a huge crowd.

We had an good league with the exception of the Kildare result and were in the mix for promotion.
We should have no fear of Down.
Fermanagh just home from a training week in Portugal.

We have had an awful record in the Ulster Championship under the current management and against Ulster teams in general in knockout football under this management ( beaten twice at home in the last 2 seasons by Antrim in the Tailtean) .

We need to put in a performance tomorrow of some description but the bookies have us at 11/2.

Now there's an idea.... 🤔

Sportsmanship? Gaelic football one of those games that I wouldn't associate with sportsmanship. Hand the ball bck, oh f**king why. Just set it down.

Such a lack of sportsmanship that refs got hit, had to hide in the boots of cars, get escorted off the pitch such was the levels of savagery from time to time, something had to be done

Don't think the new rules will help that at all..

I suppose it depends on how much a team values winning a game

Sportsmanship? Gaelic football one of those games that I wouldn't associate with sportsmanship. Hand the ball bck, oh f**king why. Just set it down.

Such a lack of sportsmanship that refs got hit, had to hide in the boots of cars, get escorted off the pitch such was the levels of savagery from time to time, something had to be done

Wouldn't be new in fairness!

[I guarantee if Dublin/Kerry are getting continually beaten by 10 points under the new rules, all of a sudden the rules will change again.]

I was just about to say you would need to stop giving your opinion on the rules lads or Rossfan would be in to give out to ya. But he beat me to it. 🤣

The only place there is constant giving out about the new rules is this forum
They were voted in by over 90%.

I think you need to speak to more people. There is a lot of discussion about them. Some positive, some not so much. But your constant attempt to shut down discussion about them is as irritating as f**k.

I've been to good few games this year, Derry, Armagh and Tyrone games. A few club games now too.
The constant discussion in the crowd is, these rules are sh*te.
The media are fawning over the rules - and that's where the perception of them being all positive comes from.
Some rules are good, such as the tap and go, the dissent rule. Lets the game move quicker and cuts out the nonsense.
The rules were brought in to make the game more exciting, encourage kicking and long range scores.
So far, games are not more exciting - for me it's exciting when an underdog has a fighting chance and games are close.  So far there have been no exciting games imo. I was at Tyrone v Cavan - even Tyrone fans were leaving before then end.

Have the new rules encouraged more kicking? Only from kickouts as far as I see.
How many balls are kicked into FF in any game? Has it increased since the new rules came in? I'd love to see the stats - which we were promised when these rules were brought in. We always had some long range scores, we now have some 2 pointers - has the % of long range scores gone up?

Have the new rules stopped the lateral play? Maybe reduced it a bit, but most lateral play now is across the new arc. Still plenty of lateral play.

I just don't get the where the huge improvement is as a spectacle.

There were a lot of good games in the league... rules do need tweaking. Is it really fault of the rules that Derry and Cavan got hammered?... 15 behind the ball and lateral and backward passing all day was a nightmare. Maybe the coaches have destroyed the game and it isn't retrievable.

In the league the rules changed half way through and there were plenty of rubbish games too.
And now we have 12 behind the ball with lateral passing around the arc. So that hasn't changed and there's no massive deluge of goals unless there is a sending off.

And no, the rules were not the reasons Derry and Cavan got beat, but they certainly contributed to the manner of defeat.
Under old rules, if you we losing all the MF battles from a long kickout, you have the option of going short to try to get back into the game, or at least to take pressure off by getting some possession. That's almost impossible now, so you just have to keep with the same long kick and continue to get wiped out. Who does that help? Not the spectator or either of the teams in my view.

From the perspective of the stronger teams, the rules are probably great. Dublin, Kerry, Donegal, Armagh...the underdog is now less likely to catch them. So the status quo remains.
I guarantee if Dublin/Kerry are getting continually beaten by 10 points under the new rules, all of a sudden the rules will change again.

Also in the league, not all the rules were applied to all the games! No hooter in Div 3/4.
No hooter in championship now either unless televised. So it's not an even playing field. Either apply the rules to every game or don't apply them I would have thought.

Where to start there?!
I'm a long time following football and don't think I've ever seen Dublin and Kerry getting continually beaten by 10 points! Like where did you pull that out of? The game has been a mess for years and needed changed nothing to do with Dublin or Kerry. #paranoid

It's when a Kerry or Dublin lose a semi final / final or two in games (when they were in control for large portions) due to the opposition getting a run on them (by winning the lotto on the long kickouts) in the closing 10mins...

I genuinely have absolutely no idea what you're saying here 

Being daft isn't a crime, so no harm done

Going from talking shite to personal insults... well done 👏

Indeed