Sam Maguire permutations

[giveballaghback]

If they had the 3 out of 4 in the super 8s. It would have been a success, there would have been no dead rubbers as everyone would have something to play for in the final game, figure it out.

[twohands!!!]

How would you seed Leinster?
1 Dublin
2 the rest?
Everyone is excited by yesterday's game and the Ros/Rhubarbs game. 2 games between Div 1 teams of course.
There were 3 Leinster prelim games last weekend.anyone recall them?

Leinster is already seeded - the previous year's semi-finalists get byes to the quarter-finals.
In Munster the previous year's finalists get byes to the semi-finals.
In Ulster if you'd been drawn in the preliminary round in the previous two years you're exempt from being drawn in it. That meant this year - Tyrone,Fermanagh,Donegal and Down couldn't be drawn in it.
Connacht doesn't have any seeding but it has the London and New York requirement - each of the other four counties has to take turns in play them.
Basically there is a fixed schedule that rotates around of when every team has to play away in London and New York but besides that it is an open draw.

I really wouldn't be surprised if Connacht bring in seeding soon enough - it would suit the big three as it would improve the odds of being 2nd seed and for the little 4 it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to tilt the odds a bit more towards spending the summer playing in the Tailteann group stages as opposed to Sam - The one Sligo man I've met since the New York game was fairly apprehensive about the likelihood of being in the group stages for Sam. He was saying that the reality is that Sligo will be out of their depth if they end up in Sam and could take some bad damaging beatings this summer which will take the gloss of the league promotion and the Division 4 win.

[twohands!!!]

The 3 out of 4 is nonsense. Did they not learn from the super 8s?

In most cases it'll be win one game and you're through.

But that's the reason. There will be something to play for in the last round of games. 1st to go straight to quarters, 2nd for home advantage in the preliminary quarter, and 3rd and 4th will still be battling if they know that a single win might get them through. Not a fan of it myself, but I see the logic if they're going down the group route. I can't think of any set of circumstances where there will be nothing to play for in a group from top to bottom on the last day.

When the Super 8s were in place getting out of the group stages meant getting to a semi-final at a neutral venue.
The thing is that under the new structure getting out of the group in 3rd place isn't anything close to being a similar level of reward.

All the teams that finish 3rd will be facing a game away at the home venue of a team that finished 2nd the weekend after the groups finish up.
Whoever wins that will have their 3rd game in 3 weeks playing one of the four sides that finished first in the group the following weekend in a quarter-final - the sides who finish first get a weekend off while the 2nd v 3rd games are played. The teams who finish 2nd have to play the following weekend but they get the reward/advantage of playing at their home venue.
I think it's a very balanced almost elegant structure and it's clear that lessons were learned from the Super8s

The odds of their being any dead rubbers is vanishingly small.

[yellowcard]

The 3 out of 4 is nonsense. Did they not learn from the super 8s?

In most cases it'll be win one game and you're through.

But that's the reason. There will be something to play for in the last round of games. 1st to go straight to quarters, 2nd for home advantage in the preliminary quarter, and 3rd and 4th will still be battling if they know that a single win might get them through. Not a fan of it myself, but I see the logic if they're going down the group route. I can't think of any set of circumstances where there will be nothing to play for in a group from top to bottom on the last day.

When the Super 8s were in place getting out of the group stages meant getting to a semi-final at a neutral venue.
The thing is that under the new structure getting out of the group in 3rd place isn't anything close to being a similar level of reward.

All the teams that finish 3rd will be facing a game away at the home venue of a team that finished 2nd the weekend after the groups finish up.
Whoever wins that will have their 3rd game in 3 weeks playing one of the four sides that finished first in the group the following weekend in a quarter-final - the sides who finish first get a weekend off while the 2nd v 3rd games are played. The teams who finish 2nd have to play the following weekend but they get the reward/advantage of playing at their home venue.
I think it's a very balanced almost elegant structure and it's clear that lessons were learned from the Super8s

The odds of their being any dead rubbers is vanishingly small.

Haven't really given it much thought up to now but it certainly feels like it is a good system where every game takes on some significance. Certainly much better then the old super 8 groups stuck in the middle of a knock out competition.

[blanketattack]

The 3rd seed permutations have been narrowed down to:
Mayo
Tyrone
Loser of Roscommon/Galway
Loser of Derry/Monaghan

One super16 group could possibly be...

Kerry (or Dub)
Armagh (Ulster final loss)
Mayo
A/N other

or

Dublin
Derry
Tyrone
A/N other

Farcical

Seeing that AN Other is likely to be Louth, Cork, Kildare or Westmeath I'd love 2 very strong other teams in my group as qualification is likely assured just by beating or probably even drawing with one of the 4th seed minnows.

However, if Down or Cavan get to the Ulster final, Donegal get pushed into the 4th seed slot and I wouldn't fancy a group in with Derry, Tyrone and Donegal.

[seafoid]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0417/1377423-all-ireland-football-championship-permutations-week-2/

Pot 3

Mayo

Loser of Roscommon/Galway

Tyrone

12th ranked team

Pot 4

13th ranked team

14th ranked team

15th ranked team

16th ranked team

The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh

[Dreadnought]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0417/1377423-all-ireland-football-championship-permutations-week-2/

Pot 3

Mayo

Loser of Roscommon/Galway

Tyrone

12th ranked team

Pot 4

13th ranked team

14th ranked team

15th ranked team

16th ranked team

The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh

A lot of that is out of date already...

[blanketattack]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0417/1377423-all-ireland-football-championship-permutations-week-2/

Pot 3

Mayo

Loser of Roscommon/Galway

Tyrone

12th ranked team

Pot 4

13th ranked team

14th ranked team

15th ranked team

16th ranked team

The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh

A lot of that is out of date already...

Yeah, the last 3rd seed will be the loser of Monaghan v Derry bar Tipp beating Kerry, which would put Kerry in as the final 3rd seed instead.

[seafoid]

I think with Sligo/New York and Clare/Limerick guaranteed a final place plus Westmeath from the TC there are just 13 teams from the League list unless Meath make the Leinster final.

[Blowitupref]

The one Sligo man I've met since the New York game was fairly apprehensive about the likelihood of being in the group stages for Sam. He was saying that the reality is that Sligo will be out of their depth if they end up in Sam and could take some bad damaging beatings this summer which will take the gloss of the league promotion and the Division 4 win.

London you mean and would be interesting to hear the view of Sligo posters on here and see do they feel the same. @sligoman2  @Mano  @ck @magpie seanie  @SLIGONIAN

As outsider looking in I would think Sligo getting the opportunity to play in their first senior provincial final 8 years and playing in the group stages (if runners up) which would include home game against a 4th seed would attract plenty of interest with their players and it's supporters.

[weareros]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0417/1377423-all-ireland-football-championship-permutations-week-2/

Pot 3

Mayo

Loser of Roscommon/Galway

Tyrone

12th ranked team

Pot 4

13th ranked team

14th ranked team

15th ranked team

16th ranked team

The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh

A lot of that is out of date already...

Yeah, the last 3rd seed will be the loser of Monaghan v Derry bar Tipp beating Kerry, which would put Kerry in as the final 3rd seed instead.

I think if Kildare (overcome Laois) and bet Dublin (unlikely as it may seem), and Derry were to lose to Monaghan, that would make Dublin a potential third seed, too.

[twohands!!!]

The one Sligo man I've met since the New York game was fairly apprehensive about the likelihood of being in the group stages for Sam. He was saying that the reality is that Sligo will be out of their depth if they end up in Sam and could take some bad damaging beatings this summer which will take the gloss of the league promotion and the Division 4 win.

London you mean and would be interesting to hear the view of Sligo posters on here and see do they feel the same. @sligoman2  @Mano  @ck @magpie seanie  @SLIGONIAN

As outsider looking in I would think Sligo getting the opportunity to play in their first senior provincial final 8 years and playing in the group stages (if runners up) which would include home game against a 4th seed would attract plenty of interest with their players and it's supporters.

This was after the London game  but I meant the New York game as he couldn't see Sligo losing to New York in the Connacht semi-final.
I was a bit surprised at how down-hearted he was about the whole thing but I think he feared the potential of three bad beatings - the Connacht final and the two games against the first and third seeds a lot more than looking forward to the a home game against a 4th seed - which depending on how the draw turns out could be a big ask as well. They could easily end up in a situation where they will have lost four championship games in a row with their 2 wins over London and New York not really counting for much. Just thinking about it a bit an aspect we didn't discuss was that with the groups likely to be tight enough and the importance of qualifying 1st over 2nd over 3rd every team they play will be keen to get as big a winning margin as possible. Sligo's last group game (assuming they are a number 2 seed) would be a game against a 1 seed[ say Dublin, Kerry or the Ulster winner] who could well be in a situation where the final placings come down to the score difference. That could potentially get ugly especially if Sligo are after three losses in a short period of time and have picked up a few injuries.

[Wildweasel74]

Why lads do you make this hard, nobody beating Dublin in Leinster, and the same for Kerry in Munster. So work out your seedings from there.

[sam03/05]

What’s the make up of these games?
Is it 1st seed v 4th first?

[twohands!!!]

What’s the make up of these games?
Is it 1st seed v 4th first?

Schedule of games

May 20/21 or May 27/28: Round 1 (Home & Away)

Seed 1 v Seed 3

Seed 2 v Seed 4

June 3/4: Round 2 (Home & Away)

Seed 3 v Seed 2

Seed 4 v Seed1

June 17/18: Round 3 (Neutral)

Seed 1 v Seed 2

Seed 3 v Seed 4