Author Topic: Sam Maguire permutations  (Read 29701 times)

seafoid

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Sam Maguire permutations
« on: April 11, 2023, 09:40:18 PM »
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0411/1376399-championship-permutations-field-for-sam-taking-shape/

The basics are:
ē   16 teams will qualify for the seeded four-team groups that comprise the All-Ireland SFC group stages.
ē   Eight of those places are reserved for the provincial finalists. The next eight come from the final league rankings, which take promotion/relegation and league finals into account.
ē   Although ranked 20th after the league, as last yearís Tailteann Cup winners, Westmeath will take one of the 16 places.
There is some confusion that if Westmeath reached the Leinster final that would somehow open up another spot, but a place is only reserved for the Tailteann Cup winners if they havenít already qualified. So, Westmeath will be taking the place of a higher-ranked team regardless and making the Leinster final would just mean a higher seeding for them in the group phase.
The top 16-ranked teams from the league were: 1. Mayo, 2. Galway, 3. Roscommon, 4. Tyrone, 5. Kerry, 6. Monaghan, 7. Dublin, 8. Derry, 9. Armagh, 10. Donegal, 11. Louth, 12. Cork, 13. Kildare, 14. Meath, 15. Cavan, 16. Fermanagh.
Clareís Munster quarter-final win over Cork on Sunday means that the Banner (17th) or their semi-final opponents Limerick (18th) will take one of the 16 Sam Maguire spots. History-makers New York or Sligo (23rd) will take another, as will Westmeath .
That means Division 2 side Meath are now effectively ranked 17th and will have to reach the Leinster final to make the All-Ireland series.
Kildare (now 16th) would drop to the Tailteann Cup if the Royals (or Offaly) did make the Leinster decider, unless the Lilywhites also reached the provincial final by coming through the side of the draw containing Dublin. In that somewhat unlikely scenario, Cork would be the team to miss out.
Even if Louth or Westmeath take care of their Leinster rivals, Kildare also have to worry about Cavan or Fermanagh reaching the Ulster final, and the more remote prospect of Tipperary shocking Kerry in Munster.
Kildare will therefore be hoping Derry get off to a good start in their Ulster SFC defence against Fermanagh on Saturday but we can expect a few more twists before the final line-ups for the summer are confirmed.
If we were somehow to end up with both a Cavan v Fermanagh Ulster final and a Meath-Kildare Leinster decider then even Donegal, just relegated from Division 1, would end up in the Tailteann Cup.
League champions Mayo will be in the All-Ireland series, as third seeds, despite their defeat to Roscommon but the seven other teams who lost at the weekend will definitely play in the Tailteann: Antrim, Carlow, Leitrim, London, Longford, Waterford and Wexford.

The 17-team tournament (Kilkenny play in the JFC) is being played on a similar format to the Sam Maguire: four four-team groups, with the group winners advancing directly to quarter-finals. The four second-placed teams and three best third-placed teams, plus New York, will then contest preliminary quarter-finals.
However, if New York beat Sligo, then the Exiles will participate in the All-Ireland series instead and one of the Tailteann Cup groups will contain five teams, with all four third-placed teams reaching preliminary quarter-finals.
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giveballaghback

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2023, 02:24:26 PM »
I think the 4 provincial champions deserve the no 1 seed ranking but all other qualifiers should be seeded on their league ranking is Sligo NY Limerick or Clare should carry 4th seed rankings.

Rossfan

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2023, 04:16:13 PM »
Agree with that ballagh.
This year could see 4 Tailteann teams as second seeds.
Remember we're a noble race from a land where Kings once trod.

seafoid

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2023, 08:37:56 PM »
 Teething problems
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giveballaghback

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2023, 08:33:32 PM »
As it stands now the 3rd seeds will be Mayo, the loser of Ros/Galway, Tyrone and the loser of Derry/Monaghan unless Tipp beat Kerry or Dubs donít reach Leinster final. If dubs donít reach Leinster final then Derry would have to beat Monaghan or Dubs would be a fourth seed. Donít ask😳

An Watcher

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2023, 11:25:27 PM »
Can someone clarify if it has been already sorted that number 1 seeds in ulster are grouped with number 2 seeds in leinster I think it is while the number 2 seeds in ulster will be grouped with the number 1 seeds in leinster?  Similar scenario with munster and connacht?

Gold

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2023, 12:31:31 AM »
What way do the groups work? How many qualify from the groups?

Top 2 in each play in AI quarter final?
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PMG1

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2023, 02:27:23 AM »
What way do the groups work? How many qualify from the groups?

Top 2 in each play in AI quarter final?
Too 1 straight through to quarter final, 2 plays 3 for the other spot

Smokin Joe

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2023, 06:56:29 AM »
Can someone clarify if it has been already sorted that number 1 seeds in ulster are grouped with number 2 seeds in leinster I think it is while the number 2 seeds in ulster will be grouped with the number 1 seeds in leinster?  Similar scenario with munster and connacht?
Yes, it would appear that the 1 and 2 seeds are being matched from their provinces such that the provincial finalists all have 2 weeks until their 1st round robin game

20-21.05.2023 (Sat/Sun)
GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship | Round 1 (Home & Away)
(Involving Munster & Connacht Finalists)
Seed 1 v Seed 3
Seed 2 v Seed 4

27-28.05.2023 (Sat/Sun)
GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship | Round 1 (Home & Away)
(Involving Leinster & Ulster Finalists)
Seed 1 v Seed 3
Seed 2 v Seed 4

An Watcher

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2023, 07:05:06 AM »
Beaten ulster finalists to face the dubs then and beaten connacht finalists to face kerry.  Handy one for kerry

Dreadnought

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2023, 08:41:32 AM »
I think the 4 provincial champions deserve the no 1 seed ranking but all other qualifiers should be seeded on their league ranking is Sligo NY Limerick or Clare should carry 4th seed rankings.
I keep seeing people say this, and on initial viewing, it makes sense, but it doesn't when you look into it in like any way. At the end of the day, this is Championship and it's based on Championship. So that's where we get our top 2 seeds. It's be highly strange to seed 1 the winners, and 4 the finalists, yet stick in League placings in the middle seeds even though these sides have up to that point done poorly in Championship. Where is the sense there? Championship form has to be rewarded, and getting to the final must mean something, otherwise why bother? The League is just the backup for qualification and if you need to fall back on this after losing in the provincials, there is no way you deserve a better seeding than someone who got a final...

Rossfan

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2023, 08:55:58 AM »
In Connacht and Minster it can be  luck of a draw rather than merit that gets team to Finals. Leinster avoid Dublin and there's more often than not a handy route.
Remember we're a noble race from a land where Kings once trod.

Dreadnought

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2023, 09:01:41 AM »
In Connacht and Minster it can be  luck of a draw rather than merit that gets team to Finals. Leinster avoid Dublin and there's more often than not a handy route.
And that can easily be sorted with some sort of seeding as to not lopside a draw. That can seem harsh, but is needed. Likes of Clare deserve their place as they beat Cork. Connacht draw the issue that can easily be rectified by seeding

larryin89

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2023, 09:33:43 AM »
Surely the provincial championship will be done away with now , itís plain to see , get your seeding from the national league Solely and it also makes the league very important at the same time . It would also give it more time to spread the championship instead of such a condensed season .
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Armagh18

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Re: Sam Maguire permutations
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2023, 09:37:52 AM »
Surely the provincial championship will be done away with now , itís plain to see , get your seeding from the national league Solely and it also makes the league very important at the same time . It would also give it more time to spread the championship instead of such a condensed season .
Can see it both ways, Connacht is making a mockery of it as a division 4 team is going to be in the final having only beaten other d4 teams. They donít deserve to be in the SM and should be in the TC. Although if Down or Cavan happen to get to and Ulster final it would be harsh on them to not qualify for Sam.