Author Topic: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...  (Read 20893 times)

brokencrossbar1

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2011, 12:03:04 PM »
Lads we'll agree to disagree. My experience of coaching in a few different counties at different levels suggests different to what you all say. Football in particular is a very simple game made difficult by people with agendas and grant money. 5-6 years of Go Games is not in my mind sufficient time to deem it a success.

AZOffaly

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2011, 12:18:30 PM »
Lads we'll agree to disagree. My experience of coaching in a few different counties at different levels suggests different to what you all say. Football in particular is a very simple game made difficult by people with agendas and grant money. 5-6 years of Go Games is not in my mind sufficient time to deem it a success.

Equally, it is not enough time to call it a failure.

My experience of coaching kids, thus far, suggests that for individual development, small sided games focussing on the skills and getting everyone involved is the way to go. But sure we'll see later on.

David McKeown

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #32 on: April 22, 2011, 12:26:42 PM »
The other aspect I like about go games although it doesnt seem to have been implemented is that with smaller teams the potential exists to not have two year spreads at under age level.  I am no longer involved in coaching GAA but when I was one of the biggest issues I faced was that players seemed to be developing in their final year at an age group say u10 then regressing somewhat at u12 as the bigger stronger players once again began to dominate.  I think if we could get to a place where small sided games were being played at each year e.g. U14, U13, U12,U11 etc it would increase the effect of go games.

To give an example from football if I were to play on a pitch which is the same ratio of size to me that a normal playing field is to my Under 11's keeper.  The net would be about 14 feet high and 36 feet wide. and the pitch would be about 180 yards long.  If those ratios were kept there would be very little skill in the games

To once again go back to the sport where I still coach and have been coaching on and off for about 8 or 9 years, all the research and empirical data is there to prove that small sided games and non competitive leagues is the way forward.  By non competitive I dont mean you dont monitor the score as the match is ongoing, simply that you dont record the score or publish it anywhere after the match is finished.  As a result there are no league tables kept.

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neilthemac

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #33 on: April 22, 2011, 01:09:38 PM »
I think Go Games are a great idea - try to leave no kids out - and its much easier to identify what skills need to be worked on as they get more touches of the ball

At the same time, some sort of competitive blitz or mini league is needed at some stage of the season. (especially at U12 level)

Larry Duff

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #34 on: April 22, 2011, 03:43:25 PM »
Speaking merely as a parent with no involvement in coaching, I think Go Games is a much better approach.  Smaller sided games allow 2-3 teams from each club ranging in ability, each competing against a team of similar ability. This makes sure all players are involved and contribute in each match.  This also allows players to step up as they develop or step down if they are struggling and need to raise their confidence.  It keeps all players interested and most importantly stops the pressure from coaches to win at all costs regardless of player development. This system does rely on parents being reasonable and not making an issue of their child not being in the A team. This is the biggest problem with kids football - many parents become involved in "coaching" (but only for their sons team) with the sole intention of ensuring their child is always picked for the strongest team whether they're fit for it or not.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 03:45:00 PM by Larry Duff »

Zulu

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #35 on: April 22, 2011, 09:27:23 PM »
I haven't actually ever been involved with Go games, what are the rules and how do lads find they work with the different ages, in terms of the limited movement etc?

DownFanatic

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #36 on: April 22, 2011, 10:25:55 PM »
I agree AZ - we are organising friendlies on the fortnights between the Go Games blitzes for the U8s.

They are 13 a side, and an absolute nightmare, yet quite entertaining at the same time (if you are not a coach)

But the smaller 9v9 or 6v6 means they all have to play instead of trying out WWE moves on each other when the ball is not near them.

WWE moves are all the rage with Under 8's. Caught a wee lad the other week in the process of giving his mate a tombstone!

In East Down there are U-12 Leagues. Games are four periods of 10 minutes. First two periods everyone gets game time with conditions imposed. The second two periods are played under Go Games rules and scores are kept to produce winners and losers.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 10:35:05 PM by DownFanatic »

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screenexile

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2011, 01:26:00 AM »
I have no problem with the notion of playing condition games but I still feel that they should be played at 13 or 15 aside.  To stop what happened in the Dalton cup match where your man soloed from his own back line why not simply have a blanket restrictions on solos, max 2!  Play the rest of the game as normal but it means the stronger guys can't push their way through the weaker lads.  The issue about skill development is not something that should be dealt with in the games themselves, it is something that must be developed the 2 nights during the week the young lads need coached.  If a player at 18 can't kick with both feet it is not because they didn't get enough 'game time', it is because the quality of work the underage coaches was doing with them over the years was not up to scratch. 
Boys and girls at under 8 and under 10 don't have the appreciation of positions as older players do and will be attracted to the ball which leaves the game a mess.
I'm sure you'll agree that it's one thing a lad being able to kick the ball with both feet during a drill but you want him to do it during a game. He'll do it quicker if he has the time and space to do it.
I was looking through a few clubs' websites for ideas on coaching and the best example I found was the Slaughtneil website.  There's a very good guideline on it as to what they would hope their young players should be able to do at each age group. The emphasis on the skills really starts at under 10 with under 12 players expected to hone their skills under increased pressure.

It was actually an open email sent to all clubs from Derry's Coaching Development Officer after Derry got a complete tanking last year:

Quote
A Chairde,

 

A bitterly disappointing day in Celtic Park for both our senior and minor teams.  I think after a day like that it makes everybody reflect on what is going on within our County, my viewpoint is from a coaching and games perspective.

 

Iím not the kind of person to be pointing fingers or blaming people, hindsight and is a wonderful thing and itís a skill many people in GAA circles seem to possess.  Instead I think we all need to examine exactly what we are doing to develop our underage players.

 

I think we have very good structures now in place at 8, 10 and 12 years of age with the Go Games and all the work that goes into coaching these young players.  We have very much over the past couple of years fostered the idea that every young players should play and develop their technical skills at their own rate.  I am convinced this will reap the benefits in years to come. I would however like all underage coaches particularly Under 12 coaches to concentrate working on the Weak Side to develop more two sided players.

At Under 8 level it should be about getting the kids out playing our games, enjoying them and developing that sense of club with them

At Under 10 level it should be about skill development, focus most be on developing all the skills with the young players moving into under 12 level.

At Under 12 level it should be about skill refinement and executing the skills under pressure.  There should be much more decision making in your coaching sessions for the players also.

 

Under 14 level is a busy year for players with Fťile competitions beginning early then into their leagues and championships.  At Under 14 level players are really adapting to spatial awareness more so than anything else, players are now having to make decisions that they might not of had to make at under 12 level.  As players should be coming into Under 14 having come through the structures already in place they should have average to good technical skills, although it is always important to keep working on technique particularly on the weak side and under increased pressure.  Other aspects such as team play and tactical awareness will begin to come into your coaching sessions.  Players within their clubs should also be educated in the importance of nutrition and hydration at Under 14 level.

 

Once a player gets to Under 16 and minor level itís important that clubs continue to work on developing technique, team play, tactical awareness, spatial awareness amongst their players but I think itís becoming increasingly important that we in Derry start opening ourselves to the whole area of strength and conditioning amongst our players.

 

I know this is something we have started with development squad players and is going to have a major focus with them squads for the next few years.  But development squads (support them or loathe them) canít cater for every single player so we need clubs doing some of the work too.  I am happy to organise a series of coaching workshops around the area and bring in a few knowledgeable people to work with you our coaches within the County to show you things you can integrate into your coaching sessions that will help around this area.  If we buy into it not only will our players be stronger playing our games but Iím also convinced we would have much less injuries down the line.

 

Our development squad structure is in place and operating to a level Iím happy with for the past two years therefore next yearís minor team will be the first group of players to come through the revised programme.  I know some people need convincing on the effectiveness but Iím adamant they are the only way we are going to really improve the top 20% of players, along with an effective school programme also of course, the two go hand in hand.  I would urge everyone to support them fully (this is more or less happening now), Armagh senior team yesterday had 17 players who came through the development squad structure, we in Derry took our eye of the ball.  I think itís important that every single coach doing the excellent work at club level and the coaches working with our development squads and within our schools continue to work hard at developing players so in seven or eight years time we have a continuum of top class players fighting to be part of and stay part of a strong senior panel.

 

Itís very easy for us to feel sorry for ourselves after yesterdayís events and to blame people but itís up to every coach from every club working with young players to roll up the sleeves and continue the excellent work thatís going on!

 

Regards,

Chris

DERRY GAA COACHING BLOG:
http://derrycoaching.blogspot.com/

Criostůir ” CoileŠin / Chris Collins
Derry Coaching & Games Development Manager
chris.collins.gm.derry@gaa.ie

brokencrossbar1

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2011, 09:24:20 AM »
Up to u10 Go Games is useful. I think possibly my issue is not necessarily the games but the notion that they are the sole way forward. Also I have attended numerous training courses run by the GAA and the level of coaches being rolled out to go back to clubs is poor.  I have not seen one major player at any of them, what I have invariably seen is predominantly fathers with no real playing experience learning the 'book' way to coach.  They don't understand basics like the stance you take when kicking a ball, the benefits of using different parts of your feet to get different levels of power, the importance of head down and follow through, I could go on. They have a vague understanding.  These are the sort of things that kids need to know when they are young.  Develop good habits early on and they have them for life.  I have coached at senior level for 4 years and in every team I have had to go back to basics as the players don't have simple skills like these.  Maybe it is been solely my experience but this level of coaching coupled with development of skills through the Go Games has seriously tempered my view on it.  I may be on my own here but I know there are strong dissenting voices among coaches in some areas of Ulster and they echo my concerns and these are people employed by the GAA.     

Milltown Row2

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #40 on: April 23, 2011, 09:50:08 AM »
Up to u10 Go Games is useful. I think possibly my issue is not necessarily the games but the notion that they are the sole way forward. Also I have attended numerous training courses run by the GAA and the level of coaches being rolled out to go back to clubs is poor.  I have not seen one major player at any of them, what I have invariably seen is predominantly fathers with no real playing experience learning the 'book' way to coach.  They don't understand basics like the stance you take when kicking a ball, the benefits of using different parts of your feet to get different levels of power, the importance of head down and follow through, I could go on. They have a vague understanding.  These are the sort of things that kids need to know when they are young.  Develop good habits early on and they have them for life.  I have coached at senior level for 4 years and in every team I have had to go back to basics as the players don't have simple skills like these.  Maybe it is been solely my experience but this level of coaching coupled with development of skills through the Go Games has seriously tempered my view on it.  I may be on my own here but I know there are strong dissenting voices among coaches in some areas of Ulster and they echo my concerns and these are people employed by the GAA.   

This happens a lot now.

I'm not a fan of the Go Games either, especially for hurling, its pure dung
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

INDIANA

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #41 on: April 23, 2011, 10:47:18 AM »
Up to u10 Go Games is useful. I think possibly my issue is not necessarily the games but the notion that they are the sole way forward. Also I have attended numerous training courses run by the GAA and the level of coaches being rolled out to go back to clubs is poor.  I have not seen one major player at any of them, what I have invariably seen is predominantly fathers with no real playing experience learning the 'book' way to coach.  They don't understand basics like the stance you take when kicking a ball, the benefits of using different parts of your feet to get different levels of power, the importance of head down and follow through, I could go on. They have a vague understanding.  These are the sort of things that kids need to know when they are young.  Develop good habits early on and they have them for life.  I have coached at senior level for 4 years and in every team I have had to go back to basics as the players don't have simple skills like these.  Maybe it is been solely my experience but this level of coaching coupled with development of skills through the Go Games has seriously tempered my view on it.  I may be on my own here but I know there are strong dissenting voices among coaches in some areas of Ulster and they echo my concerns and these are people employed by the GAA.   

If you think that doesn go on with 15 a side u10 games you're living in dreamland. Bad coaching from parents who are not coaches is not a by product of go-games. Its always been there. Thats a completely seperate debate and adds nothing to this one.

brokencrossbar1

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #42 on: April 23, 2011, 11:16:09 AM »
Indiana when I say black you always say white!  The usefulness of Go Games and the poor coaching are inextricably linked.  Go Games as a concept will only work when you have competent coaches implementing it.  My experience, and I emphasise, my experience is that there are lots of well minded coaches implementing it who simply are not at the required level. It is pointless having the greatest system if the people putting it in place are not good enough.  In Barcelona the best coaches coach the kids, different sport different level, same lesson.

neilthemac

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #43 on: April 23, 2011, 11:30:28 AM »
Up to u10 Go Games is useful. I think possibly my issue is not necessarily the games but the notion that they are the sole way forward. Also I have attended numerous training courses run by the GAA and the level of coaches being rolled out to go back to clubs is poor.  I have not seen one major player at any of them, what I have invariably seen is predominantly fathers with no real playing experience learning the 'book' way to coach.  They don't understand basics like the stance you take when kicking a ball, the benefits of using different parts of your feet to get different levels of power, the importance of head down and follow through, I could go on. They have a vague understanding.  These are the sort of things that kids need to know when they are young.  Develop good habits early on and they have them for life.  I have coached at senior level for 4 years and in every team I have had to go back to basics as the players don't have simple skills like these.  Maybe it is been solely my experience but this level of coaching coupled with development of skills through the Go Games has seriously tempered my view on it.  I may be on my own here but I know there are strong dissenting voices among coaches in some areas of Ulster and they echo my concerns and these are people employed by the GAA.   

I'd rather someone who made the effort to go to coaching courses, learned how to teach skills correctly and implemented the correct things from day one (they are more likely to read up and do some research to improve their own skills). than a big name former player who thinks he/she knows it all, brings bad habits to coaching and cannot understand when things don't go right
some of the best coaches are fellas who made no impact on the game as players.

dowling

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Re: Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...
« Reply #44 on: April 23, 2011, 11:42:08 AM »
Have to agree with Indiana, coaching is not the marker for go games. But of course it's relative to the development of all kids and coaching kids to win is different to coaching kids to develop their skills. And while there are many parents thrust into coaching there are many 'qualified coaches' who coach to win and neglect overall development. If a kid is on the pitch for forty minutes but doesn't get a touch of the ball can it be said that he has played a match? Indeed there are plenty of coaches who encourage the by-passing of their weaker player. My concept of go games is inclusion during games and if coaches can grasp that's what it's about they will be of more use to all kids on the practice ground.
And if there's more inclusion all round there will be more development and more enjoyment for more kids who might be more inclined to stick with football and hurling when they get older.