Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...

[AZOffaly]

Thejuice how many of the Meath team circa 1988 were 'small men'? Buggy and Flynn maybe and that was that.

Beggy was light, and Flynn was small in height. Foley wasn't a huge man, but he was wirey. Coyler was small but tough as an auld boot. They had big men though, Lyons x 2, Harnan Hayes, O'Rourke, Staffod, Cassells, O'Malley,

[David McKeown]

Do Kilkenny not use go games or at least non competitive games to under 16 in hurling and Kerry something similar in football. Clearly it is working well for them. In association football that I've coached for years I have pleaded with a similar approach to be taken. In Spain and Holland they play small sided games and non competitive games till they are 15 and both sides are progressing well at international level.

There is plenty of imperical evidence to support the theory that small sided games improve technique and tactical nous and are important for development.

[INDIANA]

Go Games should only be used in a blitz capacity and even then to a limited extent. I have spoken to people who have coached at rugby in particular and they felt that the similar system they had in fact lowered the overall level of skill. Instead of the weaker players improving, the better players became lazy and regressed as the competitive edge was removed. I feel the GAA has tried to 'ape' other sports yet in many ways they are playing into their hands by downgrading the quality of their players. I watch my sons team and remember what we were like at his age.  We were all capable of kicking with both feet.  We 2 and maybe 3 players who could score points in excess of 35 metres. We had 2 players who could score 45's. My sons team would not have those types of players.  We worked very much on the basis of developing basic skills from we were very young and there were no convoluted training drills with copious amounts of cones.

Gaelic football is a competitive 15 a side game not a babysitter for Olivia so she can go to her pilates with Julia.  I personally think for the good of the future development of the game and also for the preparation of our younger generation for very tough times we need to harden their skins and either get them ready to deal with disappointment or make winners of them.   

There is no evidence to suggest any of the above is correct. Go Games teach young players the basics better then anything else thats the reality.

The idea of having u10's playing 15 a side on big pitches like I used to do in this day and age is crazy. Skills development is the only thing that is important between the ages of 8-13.

[heffo]

Go Games should only be used in a blitz capacity and even then to a limited extent. I have spoken to people who have coached at rugby in particular and they felt that the similar system they had in fact lowered the overall level of skill. Instead of the weaker players improving, the better players became lazy and regressed as the competitive edge was removed. I feel the GAA has tried to 'ape' other sports yet in many ways they are playing into their hands by downgrading the quality of their players. I watch my sons team and remember what we were like at his age.  We were all capable of kicking with both feet.  We 2 and maybe 3 players who could score points in excess of 35 metres. We had 2 players who could score 45's. My sons team would not have those types of players.  We worked very much on the basis of developing basic skills from we were very young and there were no convoluted training drills with copious amounts of cones.

Gaelic football is a competitive 15 a side game not a babysitter for Olivia so she can go to her pilates with Julia.  I personally think for the good of the future development of the game and also for the preparation of our younger generation for very tough times we need to harden their skins and either get them ready to deal with disappointment or make winners of them.   

There is no evidence to suggest any of the above is correct. Go Games teach young players the basics better then anything else thats the reality.

The idea of having u10's playing 15 a side on big pitches like I used to do in this day and age is crazy. Skills development is the only thing that is important between the ages of 8-13.

As someone who is heavily involved at this level both as a mentor and at county level, I've seen Go Games in Dublin since they were introduced in 2006.

The playing of games up until early teens should be about skills development, not winning.

I've seen teams at U10 level playing with a sweeper, time wasting with players going down with 'cramp', playing bangers to win a meaningless game etc etc - it should be about enjoyment.

Playing 15 on 15 or 13 on 13 on a full size pitch is a nonsense in my view - it leads to a handful of players dominating a game and the weaker player becoming marginalised.

Since Go-Games have been introduced in Dublin I've seen numerous players progress from the quiet corner back who couldn't kick snow off a rope to confident all round players who can execute most of the skills in the game.

I've seen loads of players over the years who were physically bigger than their team mates and who dominated games up to U15/16 and were considered the best in Dublin yet by the time they were in their early 20's couldn't get a game for the club's second team because (as someone else mentioned) they couldn't do anything else beyond run past smaller players or catch a ball above a smaller players head.

The idea that kids want to win at that age group is this is a driver for keeping games as they were is also a nonsense in my view - I believe this is driven by parents/mentors living vicariously through the kids - behaving like lunatics to win at all costs and then by the time the kids get to Minor they've a heap of medals in their back pocket but can't kick off their weak foot.

[AZOffaly]

On a seperate note, but related, does anyone know where you can get some of the U-Can passports for hurling and football? I know you can buy the Fun Do Resource Pack, but I'm not sure how many passports you get?

I like the idea of being able to measure something with regard to the skills development, and I'd be looking to get about 30 of each, plus whatever I need to 'stamp' them.

[heffo]

On a seperate note, but related, does anyone know where you can get some of the U-Can passports for hurling and football? I know you can buy the Fun Do Resource Pack, but I'm not sure how many passports you get?

I like the idea of being able to measure something with regard to the skills development, and I'd be looking to get about 30 of each, plus whatever I need to 'stamp' them.

Contact Coaching & Games in the Offaly or Tipp county board AZ - they'll sort you out.

[Hound]

I can't see the correlation between having medals in the pocket and having no left foot! Doesn't make sense.

There's absolutely no doubt that small sided games for youngsters is far far better than 13 or 15 a side. But I think competition is good too.

My lad plays soccer and GAA, and they both use small sided games and ensure players of all abilities get a min amount of playing time each match. The big difference is they keep league tables in the soccer and don't in the GAA, so my lad reckons the soccer matters more and therefore its currently his favourite

[mackers]

Go Games should only be used in a blitz capacity and even then to a limited extent. I have spoken to people who have coached at rugby in particular and they felt that the similar system they had in fact lowered the overall level of skill. Instead of the weaker players improving, the better players became lazy and regressed as the competitive edge was removed. I feel the GAA has tried to 'ape' other sports yet in many ways they are playing into their hands by downgrading the quality of their players. I watch my sons team and remember what we were like at his age.  We were all capable of kicking with both feet.  We 2 and maybe 3 players who could score points in excess of 35 metres. We had 2 players who could score 45's. My sons team would not have those types of players.  We worked very much on the basis of developing basic skills from we were very young and there were no convoluted training drills with copious amounts of cones.

Gaelic football is a competitive 15 a side game not a babysitter for Olivia so she can go to her pilates with Julia.  I personally think for the good of the future development of the game and also for the preparation of our younger generation for very tough times we need to harden their skins and either get them ready to deal with disappointment or make winners of them.   

There is no evidence to suggest any of the above is correct. Go Games teach young players the basics better then anything else thats the reality.

The idea of having u10's playing 15 a side on big pitches like I used to do in this day and age is crazy. Skills development is the only thing that is important between the ages of 8-13.

100% agree. Sligonian touched on it on the goal of the year thread.  Players in the 8 to 13 year old age group will develop at different times and that has to be allowed to happen.  Players should be encouraged to learn to kick with both feet, block, catch the ball overhead without a coach and parents bawling the head off them because an error has cost them a championship match.  They are more likely to try it when they have the time and space round them so small sided games are ideal.
Fifteen a side games at u8 and u10 are a complete waste of time as it just leaves the game in one great big mess in the middle of the field.
In my experience it is the big clubs who want this as they have the big numbers and want to get as many on the field as possible.

[heffo]

I can't see the correlation between having medals in the pocket and having no left foot! Doesn't make sense.

There's absolutely no doubt that small sided games for youngsters is far far better than 13 or 15 a side. But I think competition is good too.

My lad plays soccer and GAA, and they both use small sided games and ensure players of all abilities get a min amount of playing time each match. The big difference is they keep league tables in the soccer and don't in the GAA, so my lad reckons the soccer matters more and therefore its currently his favourite

It's not a direct correlation between medals & lack of skills  - the point is there is a win at all costs mentality which comes at the detriment of skill development - 'Who cares if only four players out of the 15 are touching the ball - we can go from goalkeeper to midfield to full forward and score a goal'

League/group tables are kept in Dublin at U11 up - last year was the first year that results weren't recorded from U8-U10.

[lynchbhoy]

Thejuice how many of the Meath team circa 1988 were 'small men'? Buggy and Flynn maybe and that was that.

Beggy was light, and Flynn was small in height. Foley wasn't a huge man, but he was wirey. Coyler was small but tough as an auld boot. They had big men though, Lyons x 2, Harnan Hayes, O'Rourke, Staffod, Cassells, O'Malley,

M Lyons 6 foot, P Lyons 5'9
Omalley 5'10
orourke played like he was 5'5

[brokencrossbar1]

I have no problem with the notion of playing condition games but I still feel that they should be played at 13 or 15 aside.  To stop what happened in the Dalton cup match where your man soloed from his own back line why not simply have a blanket restrictions on solos, max 2!  Play the rest of the game as normal but it means the stronger guys can't push their way through the weaker lads.  The issue about skill development is not something that should be dealt with in the games themselves, it is something that must be developed the 2 nights during the week the young lads need coached.  If a player at 18 can't kick with both feet it is not because they didn't get enough 'game time', it is because the quality of work the underage coaches was doing with them over the years was not up to scratch. 

[lynchbhoy]

my own opinion is that I  would agree with the concept of 'go games'.
young kids need to have their attention held all of the time on a football pitch. (goes for hurling too).
I dont have kids but have coached u8 up to minor (and senior).
personally I would believe that we should incorporate BOTH aspects. I'll explain why.
The more involvement in a 'game' a child has, the more they enjoy it. Football (&hurling - but from now on I will just say football) should be FUN. Too many times in the past kids have been thrown out to play sports by their folks and they would rather be inside watching telly and playing xbox.
Even the kids that would 'like' football, are a bit non plussed when they first start attending training.
So as an organisation, we need to get them 'hooked' the same way we all obv are.
More ball time during training (means more footballs) with more drills and skills sessions.
go games where the 'zones' mean more chance of kids getting the ball and interchanging players into different positions means they all get turns in defence and attack and wee slow tubby Johnny wont just be stuck in corner back from he is 8 until he is 18 - though by that stage he will have retired bored with football 4 years previous.

each game day should comprise of 30 mins training/skills/drills before a match. Play a 'go game' after a full fixture and use all the players. This will keep the kids all feeling involved and happy.

In order to develop 'tactics' etc, players need to be able to properly use the ball and to do this they need to be fully skilled up in kicking the ball with each foot and three sides of each foot (ok one foot would do but both feet is easily achieveable). Handpassing and teamwork etc, movement need work too. Tactics are just wasted words if he kids cannot implement these due to poor ability.
Imo you are all correct when you say that kids only getting a couple of touches of a ball isnt enough, plus real 13 or 15 a side games are needed to teach the kids what a real game is like and losing is needed from an early age to they can handle such dissapointments. After a loss, encouragement and compliments on how they played means a lot to kids.
my solution is each training and match day that you divide the time into training/skills, then game then go game.
that covers all bases. Its a wee bit extra time, but its worth it.(as long as its not too long for the very young kids but they wouldnt play much in the way of 13/15 a side matches though).
 

[lynchbhoy]

I have no problem with the notion of playing condition games but I still feel that they should be played at 13 or 15 aside.  To stop what happened in the Dalton cup match where your man soloed from his own back line why not simply have a blanket restrictions on solos, max 2!  Play the rest of the game as normal but it means the stronger guys can't push their way through the weaker lads.  The issue about skill development is not something that should be dealt with in the games themselves, it is something that must be developed the 2 nights during the week the young lads need coached.  If a player at 18 can't kick with both feet it is not because they didn't get enough 'game time', it is because the quality of work the underage coaches was doing with them over the years was not up to scratch.

i'd agree with making some parts of training games 'one solo one hop' - but you need to allow players to develop their soloing skills also.
Big players underage 12-14 generally never grow much afterwards- or so I recall anyhow.
A lot of great players bloom later but if they lose encouragement or the sense of fun- they might never have reached it.
how many greats have we lost as they were too small or weak as kids and they might not have had much encouragement in their club or family.  As numbers 'fall off' as the kids are in their teens, we need more lads on the squad not less. I recall having to 'find' players that had 'retired' a few years before and they enjoyed making a comeback to the game- esp as this time they were not roared at or left on the line and never playing.

[INDIANA]

I have no problem with the notion of playing condition games but I still feel that they should be played at 13 or 15 aside.  To stop what happened in the Dalton cup match where your man soloed from his own back line why not simply have a blanket restrictions on solos, max 2!  Play the rest of the game as normal but it means the stronger guys can't push their way through the weaker lads.  The issue about skill development is not something that should be dealt with in the games themselves, it is something that must be developed the 2 nights during the week the young lads need coached.  If a player at 18 can't kick with both feet it is not because they didn't get enough 'game time', it is because the quality of work the underage coaches was doing with them over the years was not up to scratch.

If you're playing corner back under your model. Your skills will never develop. The studies prove this.

The studies proved that at underage level played 15 a side between the ages of 8-14. The players down the centre of the pitch touched the ball 5 times more then any others on the field.

Tyrone brought this concept in and Kerry and Kilkenny have adopted it. That says a lot in my view. In Dublin we adapted late to this and we've paid a heavy price.

[mackers]

I have no problem with the notion of playing condition games but I still feel that they should be played at 13 or 15 aside.  To stop what happened in the Dalton cup match where your man soloed from his own back line why not simply have a blanket restrictions on solos, max 2!  Play the rest of the game as normal but it means the stronger guys can't push their way through the weaker lads.  The issue about skill development is not something that should be dealt with in the games themselves, it is something that must be developed the 2 nights during the week the young lads need coached.  If a player at 18 can't kick with both feet it is not because they didn't get enough 'game time', it is because the quality of work the underage coaches was doing with them over the years was not up to scratch. 

Boys and girls at under 8 and under 10 don't have the appreciation of positions as older players do and will be attracted to the ball which leaves the game a mess.
I'm sure you'll agree that it's one thing a lad being able to kick the ball with both feet during a drill but you want him to do it during a game. He'll do it quicker if he has the time and space to do it.
I was looking through a few clubs' websites for ideas on coaching and the best example I found was the Slaughtneil website.  There's a very good guideline on it as to what they would hope their young players should be able to do at each age group. The emphasis on the skills really starts at under 10 with under 12 players expected to hone their skills under increased pressure.