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GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: full moon on May 07, 2022, 12:15:48 PM

Poll
Question: Earlier Championship
Option 1: Success votes: 59
Option 2: Failure votes: 61
Option 3: Too early to say votes: 33
Title: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on May 07, 2022, 12:15:48 PM
Came across an interesting discussion on Off The Ball yesterday basically saying the earlier Championship this year has not helped at all for GAA media coverage or general attention. They put it that were competing against the the end of season in football and rugby and games arent getting coverage they usually get in previous years.
I know there's 2 Heineken cup games today with Leinster and Munster for instance. And it's the business end in soccer with Liverpool going well.

Was also stated that GAA is not helping itself by putting so much of its football games on the same time, competing against hurling, lack of TV games etc.


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on May 07, 2022, 12:19:17 PM
Let's wait til the end of July
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on May 07, 2022, 12:23:18 PM
I think it's been a failure so far. I favour going back to the previous way or even pushing it back a month by starting in May and ending in August. It's not really a split season anyway as most clubs are training since February it seems.

I know Pat Spillane is totally against the new calendar and says GAA are shooting itself in the foot leaving half the year for just clubs which get no media interest.

He suggested Hurling and Football do split seasons to maximise publicity etc for GAA. I think it's an interesting idea that could be explored. A lot of the time Football and Hurling are competing against each other for attention. Don't think it would be feasible calendar wise however.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 07, 2022, 03:46:03 PM
I think it's a bad idea. I know it was in response to an ESRI report but it's too early in the year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: pbat on May 07, 2022, 06:08:47 PM
I believe its a complete flop, June, July and good chunk of August you get a free run against football and rugby(world/euro years aside).
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on May 07, 2022, 06:25:22 PM
How can anyone call it a flop before it gets properly underway?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on May 07, 2022, 06:41:25 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 07, 2022, 06:25:22 PM
How can anyone call it a flop before it gets properly underway?

Well it's going to be over very quickly. Nearly half the teams are already eliminated. It's already well under way but it doesn't seem that have captured the attention of media or the public.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on May 07, 2022, 06:43:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2022, 03:46:03 PM
I think it's a bad idea. I know it was in response to an ESRI report but it's too early in the year.

Interesting what ESRI report was that? I thought it was basically about giving clubs more attention and the CPA demands.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on May 07, 2022, 06:51:19 PM
Quote from: pbat on May 07, 2022, 06:08:47 PM
I believe its a complete flop, June, July and good chunk of August you get a free run against football and rugby(world/euro years aside).

I agree, it's always a competition to gain public attention and when we have a free run in the summer for the best weather of the year we give it away.

It's going to be all but over in June. It's a massive own goal from a promotion point of view and that's becoming more obvious as time goes by.

And let's not forget we're very lucky the World Cup is in December. When normal service is resumed the Euros and World Cup will be now in peak Championship time every 2 years. Not just the earlier Championship rounds like previously. I doubt that has been taken into account. Only when it happens people will complain.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: armaghniac on May 07, 2022, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 07, 2022, 12:23:18 PM
He suggested Hurling and Football do split seasons to maximise publicity etc for GAA. I think it's an interesting idea that could be explored. A lot of the time Football and Hurling are competing against each other for attention. Don't think it would be feasible calendar wise however.

Splitting the hurling and football makes obvious sense. However, the entire structure of the association has to be subject to the interest of dual players, of whom there might be 100 in the whole island.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on May 07, 2022, 07:31:57 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 07, 2022, 06:41:25 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 07, 2022, 06:25:22 PM
How can anyone call it a flop before it gets properly underway?

Well it's going to be over very quickly. Nearly half the teams are already eliminated. It's already well under way but it doesn't seem that have captured the attention of media or the public.
compared to all those other seasons when the nation was riveted by the early provincial rounds?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on May 07, 2022, 10:06:57 PM
weather not been great either
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 07, 2022, 10:42:37 PM
Like anything, should been left the way it was, other big sports just take the limelight in the summer, All Irelands should remained in September.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on May 07, 2022, 10:43:24 PM
gaa has a lot to compete with these days
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on May 07, 2022, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on May 07, 2022, 10:43:24 PM
gaa has a lot to compete with these days

One of them being that a lot of the "problems" are imaginary
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 08, 2022, 05:52:20 AM
Quote from: full moon on May 07, 2022, 06:43:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2022, 03:46:03 PM
I think it's a bad idea. I know it was in response to an ESRI report but it's too early in the year.

Interesting what ESRI report was that? I thought it was basically about giving clubs more attention and the CPA demands.

https://www.esri.ie/news/new-research-examines-the-realities-of-being-a-senior-inter-county-player
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: sam03/05 on May 08, 2022, 07:52:24 AM
Crazy decision
No show piece games at height of summer in August.
It was all done to accommodate a split season
That would be fine if there actually was a split season
Clubs have been playing football for the previous two months
So that idea of a split season is nonsense
Be better going back to the old calender
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 08, 2022, 08:28:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2022, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 07, 2022, 12:23:18 PM
He suggested Hurling and Football do split seasons to maximise publicity etc for GAA. I think it's an interesting idea that could be explored. A lot of the time Football and Hurling are competing against each other for attention. Don't think it would be feasible calendar wise however.

Splitting the hurling and football makes obvious sense. However, the entire structure of the association has to be subject to the interest of dual players, of whom there might be 100 in the whole island.

There might be more than 100 dual players in Dublin alone.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 08, 2022, 09:24:46 AM
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 08, 2022, 07:52:24 AM
Crazy decision
No show piece games at height of summer in August.
It was all done to accommodate a split season
That would be fine if there actually was a split season
Clubs have been playing football for the previous two months
So that idea of a split season is nonsense
Be better going back to the old calender

Did you seriously expect that Club games would only occur from beginning of August ?
Do you recall the grumbling and moaning over the old calendar for the last 10 or 15 years?
Do you remember the CPA and "fix the fixtures"?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Gael85 on May 08, 2022, 09:54:05 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 08, 2022, 08:28:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2022, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 07, 2022, 12:23:18 PM
He suggested Hurling and Football do split seasons to maximise publicity etc for GAA. I think it's an interesting idea that could be explored. A lot of the time Football and Hurling are competing against each other for attention. Don't think it would be feasible calendar wise however.

Splitting the hurling and football makes obvious sense. However, the entire structure of the association has to be subject to the interest of dual players, of whom there might be 100 in the whole island.

There might be more than 100 dual players in Dublin alone.

Likes of Clare, Tipp, Cork and Offaly would have a lot of dual players.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Gael85 on May 08, 2022, 09:58:52 AM
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 08, 2022, 07:52:24 AM
Crazy decision
No show piece games at height of summer in August.
It was all done to accommodate a split season
That would be fine if there actually was a split season
Clubs have been playing football for the previous two months
So that idea of a split season is nonsense
Be better going back to the old calender

Split season is a result of the power of intercounty manager dictating club schedules. Unfair for club players who wait around all summer for their county to finish up and then blitz games off in a couple weeks.  GAA needs to market the club game more.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Throw ball on May 08, 2022, 10:53:50 AM
Quote from: Gael85 on May 08, 2022, 09:58:52 AM
Quote from: sam03/05 on May 08, 2022, 07:52:24 AM
Crazy decision
No show piece games at height of summer in August.
It was all done to accommodate a split season
That would be fine if there actually was a split season
Clubs have been playing football for the previous two months
So that idea of a split season is nonsense
Be better going back to the old calender

Split season is a result of the power of intercounty manager dictating club schedules. Unfair for club players who wait around all summer for their county to finish up and then blitz games off in a couple weeks.  GAA needs to market the club game more.

Outside of the inter County club championship - which is basically county football for the best club rather than the best playersin each county - the club scene is a local thing. Within each county it is probably well publicised.  Very few people will travel to watch games in other counties , teams on county borders aside

As much as the county needs the club scene to be thriving the club scene needs the county scene. The big match days etc get people interested in the game and encourages people who have no GAA backgrounds to let their children play the game.

I think the new split season makes no sense but in the end attendances will determine if it has worked.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Gael80 on May 08, 2022, 11:24:05 AM
I follow football more than hurling but in previous years was able to keep up to date with the hurling results, the tables and watch some of the games. To be honest I haven't got a clue how it's going this year, think I heard something about Tipperary almost being elimated and something about a handshake after a Galway v Kilkenny game.

Other sports are at their most exciting time of year, finishing up after long seasons, teams neck and neck for honours, big knock out matches etc. It's the busiest time of year for Sports media and I think the GAA are struggling to get their games the attention it requires or is used to later in the year.

So for me it's been a serious failure, however when the All Ireland football group series starts in June 2023 the aim and benefits might become clearer.

For hurling though the best part of their championships are taking place at the wrong time and they'll suffer more than football with this new schedule.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 08, 2022, 12:38:07 PM
Hard to keep track of games, too many games on, on certain weekends, no game built up as games played off very quick, Covid stay at homes games sort lead the way for this, If it was a sudden change from a full attended season I don't think. Public would accepted it. Also with so many games not on TV (ie, pay for view) alot of people miss games they want to see. Also you attended games you got to see minor if u wished, now a single games about e18, then money again to attend the seperate minor game. Younger players don't get the chances to play in front of big attendance game which was a big thing when I was that age group.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: marty34 on May 08, 2022, 01:40:43 PM
Be hard to know for sure until it's all over.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 09, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
It is slightly too early to say, but I already think it is a failure. We had a unique window during the summer for our sport, where it clashed with practically nothing. Now we've football, rugby and others in this busy time of year. I have to admit, I got caught up with the rugby on Saturday, and missed the bulk of the Cork Kerry match. That wouldn't happen in summer. We're going full bore in late Spring/early summer to knock out the most of the games, so that by mid summer, we'll only be left with the handful of semi finals and finals. Not making sense for what are summer sports. We make most teams play the bulk of their League and Championship games in poorer weather, and have their feet up all summer. Like I know we need space for the club, but the games all summer, and finals in September are what made a lot of it for me. Early Championship isn't good and needs to change back somehow.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on May 09, 2022, 12:04:29 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on May 08, 2022, 09:54:05 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 08, 2022, 08:28:10 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on May 07, 2022, 07:01:20 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 07, 2022, 12:23:18 PM
He suggested Hurling and Football do split seasons to maximise publicity etc for GAA. I think it's an interesting idea that could be explored. A lot of the time Football and Hurling are competing against each other for attention. Don't think it would be feasible calendar wise however.

Splitting the hurling and football makes obvious sense. However, the entire structure of the association has to be subject to the interest of dual players, of whom there might be 100 in the whole island.

There might be more than 100 dual players in Dublin alone.

Likes of Clare, Tipp, Cork and Offaly would have a lot of dual players.
Even in Armagh which is far from a hurling stronghold, most lads that play hurling play football as well.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on May 09, 2022, 01:11:04 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 09, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
It is slightly too early to say, but I already think it is a failure. We had a unique window during the summer for our sport, where it clashed with practically nothing. Now we've football, rugby and others in this busy time of year. I have to admit, I got caught up with the rugby on Saturday, and missed the bulk of teh Cork Kerry match. That wouldn't happen in summer. We're going full bore in late Spring/early summer to knock out the most of the games, so that by mid summer, we'll only be left with the handful of semi finals and finals. Not making sense for what are summer sports. We make most teams play the bulk of their League and Championship games in poorer weather, and have their feet up all summer. Like I know we need space for the club, but the games all summer, and finals in September are what made a lot of it for me. Early Championship isn't good and needs to change back somehow.

Yeah also the poorer weather affects the attendances. Of course with the many different ticketing apps and the ticketing shambles also.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on May 09, 2022, 03:36:49 PM
It's far too congested and hard to keep track of all the games in a short space of time. Underage county matches which produces some of the best matches of the year are getting lost in the congestion.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on May 09, 2022, 03:49:00 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 09, 2022, 01:11:04 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 09, 2022, 11:37:46 AM
It is slightly too early to say, but I already think it is a failure. We had a unique window during the summer for our sport, where it clashed with practically nothing. Now we've football, rugby and others in this busy time of year. I have to admit, I got caught up with the rugby on Saturday, and missed the bulk of teh Cork Kerry match. That wouldn't happen in summer. We're going full bore in late Spring/early summer to knock out the most of the games, so that by mid summer, we'll only be left with the handful of semi finals and finals. Not making sense for what are summer sports. We make most teams play the bulk of their League and Championship games in poorer weather, and have their feet up all summer. Like I know we need space for the club, but the games all summer, and finals in September are what made a lot of it for me. Early Championship isn't good and needs to change back somehow.

Yeah also the poorer weather affects the attendances. Of course with the many different ticketing apps and the ticketing shambles also.

Almost a full house at the Gaelic grounds yesterday all the same.


Look, irrespective of when the games are played in most provincial football campaigns there are quite a few one sided beatings. Things will pick up at the serious end of the football championships.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on May 09, 2022, 06:05:38 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 09, 2022, 03:36:49 PM
It's far too congested and hard to keep track of all the games in a short space of time. Underage county matches which produces some of the best matches of the year are getting lost in the congestion.

Yeah Its been a disaster for underage intercounty.  Squashed in the middle of all. The basically killed the minor putting it U17.I note the All Ireland u20 final isnt even in Croke Park next Saturday its in Leitrim. The could have done a double header with Kildare in Leinster semi final Sunday. How many Kildare will go to Leitrim now? Much less I assume. Who is making these fixture pill ups in Croke Park and where is the justification? They have totally devalued minor and u20 championships amongst others.

Doesn't seem to be many double headers with u20/U17 and senior games either.Yesterday it was the Ladies game as curtain raiser.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: armaghniac on May 09, 2022, 08:17:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2022, 03:49:00 PM
Almost a full house at the Gaelic grounds yesterday all the same.

Hurling has had some cracking crowds. Football has not, there was only 15000 in Clones yesterday, Kerry and Cork was sent to backwater. I was in Ballybofey and there was almost a row of empty seats in the stand in front of me. There was probably more people at the Armagh -Tyrone league game than will show up at the Athletic grounds for Monaghan v Derry. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 08:31:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2022, 03:49:00 PM

Almost a full house at the Gaelic grounds yesterday all the same.


You'd really hope so, at the home of the All Ireland champions against a neighbour. If you're not nearly filling that, then it'll be time to think
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: timmyot501 on May 10, 2022, 08:51:03 AM
"There was probably more people at the Armagh -Tyrone league game than will show up at the Athletic grounds for Monaghan v Derry. "

You could still be right armaghniac but there are no more tickets available for the seated stand for Sunday.  So there should still be a decent enough crowd for this one.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 08:31:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2022, 03:49:00 PM

Almost a full house at the Gaelic grounds yesterday all the same.


You'd really hope so, at the home of the All Ireland champions against a neighbour. If you're not nearly filling that, then it'll be time to think
It was 27,141.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on May 10, 2022, 09:03:58 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 08:31:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2022, 03:49:00 PM

Almost a full house at the Gaelic grounds yesterday all the same.


You'd really hope so, at the home of the All Ireland champions against a neighbour. If you're not nearly filling that, then it'll be time to think

30K+ at Tyrone v Derry then?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 09:15:03 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 08:31:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2022, 03:49:00 PM

Almost a full house at the Gaelic grounds yesterday all the same.


You'd really hope so, at the home of the All Ireland champions against a neighbour. If you're not nearly filling that, then it'll be time to think
It was 27,141.

As it should be for the champions at home in a city
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on May 10, 2022, 09:17:43 AM
Quote from: Throw ball,

I think the new split season makes no sense but in the end attendances will determine if it has worked.

Attendances will be part of it, but maybe more importantly, TV viewing figures, sponsorship interest, TV rights, marketing etc. All of which are likely to be diminished by this format
Worse though is the long term impact if this was continued in the long run. The kids of today barely know there is a championship progressing, especially those from non gaa backgrounds, it'll completely pass them by. They're used to premier League, fantasy, stats updated, a clear program of fixtures with the time to figure out what's happening. The gaa season will be over as far as most are concerned by the time they get their heads around it! But it's grand, there'll be another along in 9 months time......
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2022, 09:22:14 AM
The championship should be starting now
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on May 10, 2022, 09:24:20 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 09:15:03 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 08:31:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2022, 03:49:00 PM

Almost a full house at the Gaelic grounds yesterday all the same.


You'd really hope so, at the home of the All Ireland champions against a neighbour. If you're not nearly filling that, then it'll be time to think
It was 27,141.

As it should be for the champions at home in a rugby city


Is that the sound of the goalposts moving?

Tyrone carry huge support, granted less so Derry but the football championships go through the motions up to and including the provincial finals barring Ulster and less so Connacht depending if its a Mayo-Galway affair and teams prepare accordingly.
The last 8 or quarter final stages is when the football takes off, the better teams lining out against each other, do dog, shíte the license whereas hurling has that from the get go.

Only saying like, don't shoot the messenger.


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on May 10, 2022, 09:25:02 AM
Quote from: onefineday on May 10, 2022, 09:17:43 AM
Quote from: Throw ball,

I think the new split season makes no sense but in the end attendances will determine if it has worked.

Attendances will be part of it, but maybe more importantly, TV viewing figures, sponsorship interest, TV rights, marketing etc. All of which are likely to be diminished by this format
Worse though is the long term impact if this was continued in the long run. The kids of today barely know there is a championship progressing, especially those from non gaa backgrounds, it'll completely pass them by. They're used to premier League, fantasy, stats updated, a clear program of fixtures with the time to figure out what's happening. The gaa season will be over as far as most are concerned by the time they get their heads around it! But it's grand, there'll be another along in 9 months time......

You, like at least a dozen others on this thread, seem to be confusing the decade long demise of the provincial championships, with moving the championship forwards.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 09:36:31 AM
Between this thread, the u20 one and the Tailteann one I've never read so much whinging and moaning and negativity in one place.
Worse than a DUPUDA/Bryson "rally".
It's feckin depressing.

Cheer up folks!
It's May, we've daylight till 9.30 or after, we've had some great weather but with a few wet ones to make the grass grow, GAA Club games are in full swing at all age groups with games nearly every day of the week, County teams are engaged in football and hurling Championships, there are a load of shiny cups to be won, Club Championships will have the field to themselves from 25th July.....

Maybe the Mods could open a Positive comments only Section....
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 11:01:46 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 10, 2022, 09:24:20 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 09:15:03 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 08:31:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2022, 03:49:00 PM

Almost a full house at the Gaelic grounds yesterday all the same.


You'd really hope so, at the home of the All Ireland champions against a neighbour. If you're not nearly filling that, then it'll be time to think
It was 27,141.

As it should be for the champions at home in a rugby city


Is that the sound of the goalposts moving?

Tyrone carry huge support, granted less so Derry but the football championships go through the motions up to and including the provincial finals barring Ulster and less so Connacht depending if its a Mayo-Galway affair and teams prepare accordingly.
The last 8 or quarter final stages is when the football takes off, the better teams lining out against each other, do dog, shíte the license whereas hurling has that from the get go.

Only saying like, don't shoot the messenger.

Rugby city? The rugby city that now has a hard time filling its stadium, due to the success of the hurlers? You're seeing rugby players come now from places like west Cork, and not as much from Limerick as they used to. Hurling is affecting rugby in Limerick, as you would expect with the level of success they're having.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on May 10, 2022, 11:14:19 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 11:01:46 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 10, 2022, 09:24:20 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 09:15:03 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 09:03:35 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 08:31:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2022, 03:49:00 PM

Almost a full house at the Gaelic grounds yesterday all the same.


You'd really hope so, at the home of the All Ireland champions against a neighbour. If you're not nearly filling that, then it'll be time to think
It was 27,141.

As it should be for the champions at home in a rugby city


Is that the sound of the goalposts moving?

Tyrone carry huge support, granted less so Derry but the football championships go through the motions up to and including the provincial finals barring Ulster and less so Connacht depending if its a Mayo-Galway affair and teams prepare accordingly.
The last 8 or quarter final stages is when the football takes off, the better teams lining out against each other, do dog, shíte the license whereas hurling has that from the get go.

Only saying like, don't shoot the messenger.

Rugby city? The rugby city that now has a hard time filling its stadium, due to the success of the hurlers? You're seeing rugby players come now from places like west Cork, and not as much from Limerick as they used to. Hurling is affecting rugby in Limerick, as you would expect with the level of success they're having.

Joking about that, settle petal..

But the point remains, the hurling championship goes full tilt with meaningful games from the start (a few dead rubbers in the qualifiers though), the football one has too many one sided embarrassments which don't appeal to the fans of even the counties partaking let alone the neutrals but will improve come knock out time.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 10, 2022, 11:28:00 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0411/1291647-bonnar-short-season-leaves-players-in-vicious-circle/
Tipperary manager Colm Bonnar feels that the new split-season format has left county players trapped in "a vicious circle" with no period of downtime

This will be the first time that the Munster Championship group stage format has been run since pre-Covid times in 2019 and speaking to the media ahead of Sunday's opener with Waterford at Walsh Park, Bonnar said that the lack of preparation time between league and championship was hard to deal with.

In that 2019 campaign, the Premier County had 58 days to ready themselves between their Allianz Hurling League quarter-final defeat to Dublin and their provincial opener against Cork. This term, with the split-season arrangement bedded in, it's 29 days – and that's with Tipp missing out on the league knock-out stages.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 11:34:26 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 10, 2022, 11:14:19 AM

Joking about that, settle petal..

But the point remains, the hurling championship goes full tilt with meaningful games from the start (a few dead rubbers in the qualifiers though), the football one has too many one sided embarrassments which don't appeal to the fans of even the counties partaking let alone the neutrals but will improve come knock out time.

Ya fair enough, do agree though
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Redhand Santa on May 10, 2022, 11:48:41 AM
It would be a right championship in football if you had the top 12 teams in it playing in 2 groups. Say:

Group 1
Dublin
Tyrone
Galway
Monaghan
Roscommon
Armagh

Group 2
Kerry
Mayo
Donegal
Kildare
Derry
Meath

With group winners straight into semi finals and second place into quarter finals and third place teams playing lower tier winners. 3 teams eliminated from each group. You'd have big games every week from the start of the year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Louther on May 10, 2022, 11:54:58 AM
There is no one carrying the GAA message. It's left to those independent of the GAA to create whatever narrative they like and lot of the time it's negative - structures, second tier competitions, ref decisions, venues, ticket prices, fixtures etc.

All of these seem to be independent of each other. Even the Tailtean cup, and I got it wrong, was flagged in December fixture as to the structure. But it was December and no one really cared until it's happening now and suddenly it's an issue and no one even knows it's been the case since December - fair play Mod for spotting it.

What the whole GAA season lacks is certainty. From one fixture to another, prices, venues, TV, etc all seem to be chopping and changing. It's very hard to get involved in tbe championship season. The league competitions give the certainty. You can plan ahead, have a season ticket, have a trip away, know there is another day and lost of coverage with games thick and fast.

The championship is a bit all over the shop. One province will have different prices from another. Venues not fixed. Games could be at different times. You might lose and no one cares as there another more important game to come anyway. It's all a bit all over the shop.

Plus, who really promotes it? The GAA? RTE? media? Sponsors? It's not the counties involved as they won't talk to anyone. We might throw our eyes up at the premier league in England but they know how to market it and Sky drive that. Their round the clock coverage, social media channels of the clubs and players and media. It's hard to avoid. GAA you have to seek it out. And then it's often just rinse and repeat criticism of past events and negativity about future structures.

It's much easier to follow the club scene. You know what's happening, you actually met and get chatting to those involved at all levels in the club and you know when the fixture happening.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: naka on May 10, 2022, 11:58:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 10, 2022, 09:22:14 AM
The championship should be starting now
prefer the traditional championship final in september,
if we are changing should have been group of 4 s with teh last 16 playing in a knockout
would ahve given planty of games in decent weather
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 12:33:05 PM
Agree with Louther re the poor PR, marketing by GAA of the flagship competitions especially the football.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on May 10, 2022, 12:51:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 12:33:05 PM
Agree with Louther re the poor PR, marketing by GAA of the flagship competitions especially the football.
Be interesting to know what sort of marketing, social media etc department GAA have. They'd rather piss 20 million up the wall on some white elephant stadium that will never be filled. They don't even use their YouTube account to put up highlights or full match videos. No public available stats either, all kept in house.

Attendances are down and its mostly GAA HQs fault.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on May 10, 2022, 01:08:30 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 10, 2022, 12:51:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 12:33:05 PM
Agree with Louther re the poor PR, marketing by GAA of the flagship competitions especially the football.
Be interesting to know what sort of marketing, social media etc department GAA have. They'd rather piss 20 million up the wall on some white elephant stadium that will never be filled. They don't even use their YouTube account to put up highlights or full match videos. No public available stats either, all kept in house.

Attendances are down and its mostly GAA HQs fault.

Some of this might be a valid complaint.

But the single greatest waste of money the GAA could make in 2022 would be to allocate a marketing spend to the Tailteann Cup.

It is not possible to market a competition unless the competitors want to win it. Because when they don't, it descends into half arse me challenge matches between squads of players barely recognisable to their own supporters.

The GAA's marketing dept would be well within their rights to tell CCC to go f**k and themselves over this one. Rebadging the AI B championship does not work.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on May 10, 2022, 01:12:23 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2022, 01:08:30 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 10, 2022, 12:51:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 12:33:05 PM
Agree with Louther re the poor PR, marketing by GAA of the flagship competitions especially the football.
Be interesting to know what sort of marketing, social media etc department GAA have. They'd rather piss 20 million up the wall on some white elephant stadium that will never be filled. They don't even use their YouTube account to put up highlights or full match videos. No public available stats either, all kept in house.

Attendances are down and its mostly GAA HQs fault.

Some of this might be a valid complaint.

But the single greatest waste of money the GAA could make in 2022 would be to allocate a marketing spend to the Tailteann Cup.

It is not possible to market a competition unless the competitors want to win it. Because when they don't, it descends into half arse me challenge matches between squads of players barely recognisable to their own supporters.

The GAA's marketing dept would be well within their rights to tell CCC to go f**k and themselves over this one. Rebadging the AI B championship does not work.
Sure we'll see who wants to be in it and who doesn't. You can guarantee Cavan will go all out to win it. I have no idea why the likes of Down think they are above this cup..
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on May 10, 2022, 01:19:06 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 10, 2022, 01:12:23 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 10, 2022, 01:08:30 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 10, 2022, 12:51:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 10, 2022, 12:33:05 PM
Agree with Louther re the poor PR, marketing by GAA of the flagship competitions especially the football.
Be interesting to know what sort of marketing, social media etc department GAA have. They'd rather piss 20 million up the wall on some white elephant stadium that will never be filled. They don't even use their YouTube account to put up highlights or full match videos. No public available stats either, all kept in house.

Attendances are down and its mostly GAA HQs fault.

Some of this might be a valid complaint.

But the single greatest waste of money the GAA could make in 2022 would be to allocate a marketing spend to the Tailteann Cup.

It is not possible to market a competition unless the competitors want to win it. Because when they don't, it descends into half arse me challenge matches between squads of players barely recognisable to their own supporters.

The GAA's marketing dept would be well within their rights to tell CCC to go f**k and themselves over this one. Rebadging the AI B championship does not work.
Sure we'll see who wants to be in it and who doesn't. You can guarantee Cavan will go all out to win it. I have no idea why the likes of Down think they are above this cup..
Listen, that's one thing you cannot guarantee.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 10, 2022, 01:12:23 PM
Sure we'll see who wants to be in it and who doesn't. You can guarantee Cavan will go all out to win it. I have no idea why the likes of Down think they are above this cup..

Don't think you can guarantee that at all going by some of the players. They might give it a go, but might not be full bore
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on May 10, 2022, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 10, 2022, 01:12:23 PM
Sure we'll see who wants to be in it and who doesn't. You can guarantee Cavan will go all out to win it. I have no idea why the likes of Down think they are above this cup..

Don't think you can guarantee that at all going by some of the players. They might give it a go, but might not be full bore

And a phonecall from America said send the lad over and the old fella said, sure it won't do any harm..

No one knows what teams will be at full tilt for this..
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 10, 2022, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 10, 2022, 01:12:23 PM
Sure we'll see who wants to be in it and who doesn't. You can guarantee Cavan will go all out to win it. I have no idea why the likes of Down think they are above this cup..

Don't think you can guarantee that at all going by some of the players. They might give it a go, but might not be full bore

And a phonecall from America said send the lad over and the old fella said, sure it won't do any harm..

No one knows what teams will be at full tilt for this..

That too. Although they can't play over there until their county is out of Championship. So there is some bit of protection of the players to stop an exodus
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 11, 2022, 09:54:13 AM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 06:22:12 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 10, 2022, 04:14:25 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 10, 2022, 02:15:17 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on May 10, 2022, 01:12:23 PM
Sure we'll see who wants to be in it and who doesn't. You can guarantee Cavan will go all out to win it. I have no idea why the likes of Down think they are above this cup..

Don't think you can guarantee that at all going by some of the players. They might give it a go, but might not be full bore

And a phonecall from America said send the lad over and the old fella said, sure it won't do any harm..

No one knows what teams will be at full tilt for this..

That too. Although they can't play over there until their county is out of Championship. So there is some bit of protection of the players to stop an exodus

Out of the championship and Tailteann Cup are different things.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 10:25:11 AM
Tailteann is classed as a Championship too.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 11:29:49 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 11, 2022, 09:54:13 AM
Out of the championship and Tailteann Cup are different things.

Classed as the same. Can't play until your counties inter county season is over, so includes Tailteann Cup
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 11, 2022, 11:36:14 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-gaelic-games-losing-out-big-time-as-other-sports-reach-their-endgames-1.4874956
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: manfromdelmonte on May 11, 2022, 12:19:17 PM
Decisions are increasingly made in a Dublin based bubble

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 02:12:23 PM
Wasn't the "split season"  passed overwhelmingly by Congress?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 02:12:23 PM
Wasn't the "split season"  passed overwhelmingly by Congress?

When has congress ever really done the right thing? Passes what shouldn't, rejects what should. They're dependable that way. Either way, this needs to change somehow, having bulk of teams done for the year by June and clashing with otehr sports is silly.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on May 11, 2022, 03:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 02:12:23 PM
Wasn't the "split season"  passed overwhelmingly by Congress?

When has congress ever really done the right thing? Passes what shouldn't, rejects what should. They're dependable that way. Either way, this needs to change somehow, having bulk of teams done for the year by June and clashing with otehr sports is silly.

Unless you actually play the sport , and then it's a massive improvement. This change was made because it was pushed by club players who want to have a championship that starts in the summer and isn't compressed. This backlash against the split season has mainly been driven by the media, who are only looking after their own needs.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 03:56:51 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 02:12:23 PM
Wasn't the "split season"  passed overwhelmingly by Congress?

When has congress ever really done the right thing?

Ah jases that's some comment after nearly 140 years!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 03:59:15 PM
Quote from: shark on May 11, 2022, 03:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 02:12:23 PM
Wasn't the "split season"  passed overwhelmingly by Congress?

When has congress ever really done the right thing? Passes what shouldn't, rejects what should. They're dependable that way. Either way, this needs to change somehow, having bulk of teams done for the year by June and clashing with otehr sports is silly.

Unless you actually play the sport , and then it's a massive improvement. This change was made because it was pushed by club players who want to have a championship that starts in the summer and isn't compressed. This backlash against the split season has mainly been driven by the media, who are only looking after their own needs.

I still play club. It is an improvement for the club player, no doubt there. But there needs to be a middle ground. I will love playing club at the height of the summer, but I'm an intercounty supporter too. Playing our elite game, which makes the money and such, all Spring and competing against other sports, when there's nothing all summer when the usual GAA summer window is empty of other sports does not make sense. You could push it out to August even, and still finish club season off on time. This was teh 1st year of it, and for me it's just running off things too early. Adjust again for next season
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 04:00:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 03:56:51 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 02:12:23 PM
Wasn't the "split season"  passed overwhelmingly by Congress?

When has congress ever really done the right thing?

Ah jases that's some comment after nearly 140 years!

;D ;D  the whole congress setup isn't good, with the 60% majority needed, and the votes central council has. You need a huge majority of the boards to get anything past. We've seen really good motions get rejected, and then they pass something barely discussed. the system isn't right there
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 11, 2022, 11:05:38 PM
Quote from: shark on May 11, 2022, 03:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 02:12:23 PM
Wasn't the "split season"  passed overwhelmingly by Congress?

When has congress ever really done the right thing? Passes what shouldn't, rejects what should. They're dependable that way. Either way, this needs to change somehow, having bulk of teams done for the year by June and clashing with otehr sports is silly.

Unless you actually play the sport , and then it's a massive improvement. This change was made because it was pushed by club players who want to have a championship that starts in the summer and isn't compressed. This backlash against the split season has mainly been driven by the media, who are only looking after their own needs.

How many counties will be playing championship in June or July?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Gael85 on May 11, 2022, 11:20:06 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 11, 2022, 11:05:38 PM
Quote from: shark on May 11, 2022, 03:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 02:12:23 PM
Wasn't the "split season"  passed overwhelmingly by Congress?

When has congress ever really done the right thing? Passes what shouldn't, rejects what should. They're dependable that way. Either way, this needs to change somehow, having bulk of teams done for the year by June and clashing with otehr sports is silly.

Unless you actually play the sport , and then it's a massive improvement. This change was made because it was pushed by club players who want to have a championship that starts in the summer and isn't compressed. This backlash against the split season has mainly been driven by the media, who are only looking after their own needs.

How many counties will be playing championship in June or July?

Dublin hurling championship starting 20th July and the football will be 2 weeks after.  I say a lot of players will be missing due to travelling for the summer.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on May 11, 2022, 11:33:21 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 11, 2022, 11:05:38 PM
Quote from: shark on May 11, 2022, 03:41:50 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on May 11, 2022, 02:20:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 11, 2022, 02:12:23 PM
Wasn't the "split season"  passed overwhelmingly by Congress?

When has congress ever really done the right thing? Passes what shouldn't, rejects what should. They're dependable that way. Either way, this needs to change somehow, having bulk of teams done for the year by June and clashing with otehr sports is silly.

Unless you actually play the sport , and then it's a massive improvement. This change was made because it was pushed by club players who want to have a championship that starts in the summer and isn't compressed. This backlash against the split season has mainly been driven by the media, who are only looking after their own needs.

How many counties will be playing championship in June or July?

Not many. But every player in the country will have championship in July. Even in Dublin where the championship has in recent years been run in a blitz of a few weeks in Autumn.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on May 12, 2022, 04:52:57 AM
Is the all ireland club finals still going to be in like january or febuary or will they now be finished before christmas
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: GAABoardMod5 on May 12, 2022, 06:10:02 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on May 12, 2022, 04:52:57 AM
Is the all ireland club finals still going to be in like january or febuary or will they now be finished before christmas

The club All-Ireland semi-finals will be the weekend of 10/11 December in all 3 grades (senior, intermediate and junior).  Connacht v Ulster and Leinster v Munster in all competitions, although Ulster junior winners must play a quarter-final game v the winners representing Britain.

All-Ireland finals are set for 7/8 Jan 2023 for junior and intermediate grades, with the senior final on 15 Jan 2023.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 15, 2022, 12:11:24 PM
This weekend has the rugby semis and the second last weekend of the Premier League ahead of the champions league final. Lads will watch any kind of sport.  The GAA are nuts.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on May 15, 2022, 01:52:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 15, 2022, 12:11:24 PM
This weekend has the rugby semis and the second last weekend of the Premier League ahead of the champions league final. Lads will watch any kind of sport.  The GAA are nuts.

Yep, rugby and soccer in centre stage now, GAA left behind.

Even apart from that the GAA have fixed virtually no football next weekend but squashed all 4 Provincial football finals and the Tailteann Cup first round games all on the same weekend. I think the Champions League final also on that day. Madness. Tailteann will get no coverage or attendances that weekend.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on May 15, 2022, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 15, 2022, 01:52:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 15, 2022, 12:11:24 PM
This weekend has the rugby semis and the second last weekend of the Premier League ahead of the champions league final. Lads will watch any kind of sport.  The GAA are nuts.

Yep, rugby and soccer in centre stage now, GAA left behind.

Even apart from that the GAA have fixed virtually no football next weekend but squashed all 4 Provincial football finals and the Tailteann Cup first round games all on the same weekend. I think the Champions League final also on that day. Madness. Tailteann will get no coverage or attendances that weekend.

GAA in a world of their own where they think the common GAA supporter does not look to be entertained by other sports.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on May 15, 2022, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 15, 2022, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 15, 2022, 01:52:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 15, 2022, 12:11:24 PM
This weekend has the rugby semis and the second last weekend of the Premier League ahead of the champions league final. Lads will watch any kind of sport.  The GAA are nuts.

Yep, rugby and soccer in centre stage now, GAA left behind.

Even apart from that the GAA have fixed virtually no football next weekend but squashed all 4 Provincial football finals and the Tailteann Cup first round games all on the same weekend. I think the Champions League final also on that day. Madness. Tailteann will get no coverage or attendances that weekend.

GAA in a world of their own where they think the common GAA supporter does not look to be entertained by other sports.

GAA moaners are in a world of their own too.

There was always championship matches in May.

Always.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 15, 2022, 03:01:53 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 15, 2022, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 15, 2022, 02:36:05 PM
Quote from: full moon on May 15, 2022, 01:52:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 15, 2022, 12:11:24 PM
This weekend has the rugby semis and the second last weekend of the Premier League ahead of the champions league final. Lads will watch any kind of sport.  The GAA are nuts.

Yep, rugby and soccer in centre stage now, GAA left behind.

Even apart from that the GAA have fixed virtually no football next weekend but squashed all 4 Provincial football finals and the Tailteann Cup first round games all on the same weekend. I think the Champions League final also on that day. Madness. Tailteann will get no coverage or attendances that weekend.

GAA in a world of their own where they think the common GAA supporter does not look to be entertained by other sports.

GAA moaners are in a world of their own too.

There was always championship matches in May.

Always.
I am old enough to.remember all Ireland semifinals in AUGUST.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 19, 2022, 10:55:01 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darragh-%C3%B3-s%C3%A9-gaa-losing-out-as-other-sports-reach-their-endgames-1.4874956

But the issue remains that the provincial championships as it is now has become boring and, while we are not marketing it properly, there's also the point our product isn't good enough to compete with the other sports – in the dodgems – as we speed through May.
The Munster football final will be Kerry versus Limerick or Tipperary in Killarney in a few weeks and that's going to be a three o'clock game because the Champions League Final is on and, with the games we're producing, we can't compete with that. The GAA are dodging going head-on because the product isn't good enough.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Redhand Santa on May 19, 2022, 11:23:24 AM
The idea behind the split season was a good one but I don't think the timings work for it to be a great success. The point was the county stuff would be wrapped up by July and then club championships into full swing for the rest of the summer. But most counties will want to finish their leagues first and risk a diluted championship in the summer with so many good players away to America or travelling for the summer. This means half of the summer is lost in terms of big games at both club and county level.

The county season is also up against a lot of other sports to gain media attention, unlike the summer time when it had a relatively free run.

Looking at the new system next year (which I'm not sold on) I would personally change it up. Play the league and provincials first finishing up by May. Then let the clubs have the players for 4 weeks (the way it was anyway) to get a start at their leagues. This will allow time to plan the fixtures for the new inter county championship. It could then start mid June and be wrapped up by the end of August.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 19, 2022, 12:17:31 PM
Just in the EPL this weekend, the winners, 4th place and last relegation place have to be decided. Compare that to the level of excitement for Dublin vs Meath last Sunday.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 21, 2022, 06:47:17 AM
Sorry, haven't replied. Fair play to Dublin county board. Our football championship doesn't start until the first weekend in September.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 21, 2022, 09:30:52 AM
Obviously allowing for the post AIF celebrations and recovery Farr ;D
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 21, 2022, 09:55:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 21, 2022, 09:30:52 AM
Obviously allowing for the post AIF celebrations and recovery Farr ;D

;D method to their madness alright...(if only)  :-X
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on May 22, 2022, 02:12:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2022, 12:17:31 PM
Just in the EPL this weekend, the winners, 4th place and last relegation place have to be decided. Compare that to the level of excitement for Dublin vs Meath last Sunday.

Umm... we had quite an interesting last day in our league competition, or did you forget?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2022, 11:52:50 AM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on May 22, 2022, 02:12:37 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2022, 12:17:31 PM
Just in the EPL this weekend, the winners, 4th place and last relegation place have to be decided. Compare that to the level of excitement for Dublin vs Meath last Sunday.

Umm... we had quite an interesting last day in our league competition, or did you forget?
We did. But the GAA put its own games in direct competition with soccer and rugby by choosing to start the championship in April. Maybe the football product isn't strong enough for that.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2022, 12:45:49 PM
Should we only have Inter County Gaelic games when we're absolutely sure no other sport is taking place anywhere?
We'd never play at all if we're trying to avoid other sports.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2022, 12:52:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2022, 12:45:49 PM
Should we only have Inter County Gaelic games when we're absolutely sure no other sport is taking place anywhere?
We'd never play at all if we're trying to avoid other sports.
No. But we shouldn't run the championship when we are in  competition with soccerball and rubby and then leave the months of August and September to other sports.
GAA should be the summer.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 22, 2022, 01:25:49 PM
By "GAA" do you mean inter Co Championships or a mixture of inter Co and Club Championships?
Wasn't the operation of the latter system what had everyone moaning about fixtures, setting up CPA etc?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on May 22, 2022, 02:14:45 PM
Soccer is global sport thats is played throughtout the year  so gaa would be in competition with it any time of the year really and up against a major championship every 2 years (exemption this year because the world cup in november)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2022, 02:58:56 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 22, 2022, 01:25:49 PM
By "GAA" do you mean inter Co Championships or a mixture of inter Co and Club Championships?
Wasn't the operation of the latter system what had everyone moaning about fixtures, setting up CPA etc?
Interco.
The GAA brought in 2 major changes.  The shorter season and the April start. They should review the operation of both
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 22, 2022, 03:02:27 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on May 22, 2022, 02:14:45 PM
Soccer is global sport thats is played throughtout the year  so gaa would be in competition with it any time of the year really and up against a major championship every 2 years (exemption this year because the world cup in november)
English soccer is what counts in Ireland. It has its close season in June, July and part of August.
The World Cup aNd Euros typically take place in June. Which would coincide with end stages of all Irelands . Which is suboptimal.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on May 22, 2022, 07:51:26 PM
The hurling lads on Sunday game discussed it and said the same, it should be changed back
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Hound on May 23, 2022, 08:05:52 AM
Not sure what all the fuss is about. Soccer and rugby are done for the summer (after the two euro finals next Saturday). GAA has a complete monopoly on sports for June and July. Then club has top billing from August onwards. That is literally what the majority were asking for.

A lot of hullabaloo is because Tipp are out so soon in the hurling. Boo hoo, they were shite and deserved to be gone.

This is the upcoming fixture list:

May 28/29: Provincial finals and Tailteann 1st round
June 4/5: Qualifiers 1 and Tailteann QF
June 11/12: Qualifiers 2
June 19: Tailteann SF
June 25/26: All Ireland QF
July 2/3: [hurling semi finals]
July 9/10: All Ireland semis, Tailteann final, minor final (double bill each day)
July 17: All Ireland hurling final
July 24: All Ireland football final

That's fantastic. 9 weekends in a row. And apart from the first one, GAA is the only show in town.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on May 23, 2022, 08:08:27 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 23, 2022, 08:05:52 AM
Not sure what all the fuss is about. Soccer and rugby are done for the summer (after the two euro finals next Saturday). GAA has a complete monopoly on sports for June and July. Then club has top billing from August onwards. That is literally what the majority were asking for.

A lot of hullabaloo is because Tipp are out so soon in the hurling. Boo hoo, they were shite and deserved to be gone.

This is the upcoming fixture list:

May 28/29: Provincial finals and Tailteann 1st round
June 4/5: Qualifiers 1 and Tailteann QF
June 11/12: Qualifiers 2
June 19: Tailteann SF
June 25/26: All Ireland QF
July 2/3: [hurling semi finals]
July 9/10: All Ireland semis, Tailteann final, minor final (double bill each day)
July 17: All Ireland hurling final
July 24: All Ireland football final

That's fantastic. 9 weekends in a row. And apart from the first one, GAA is the only show in town.

Best post on this thread so far.

The number of people who've convinced themselves that the early rounds of the championship taking place in the month of May is a new direction for the GAA, is absolutely bewildering.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on May 23, 2022, 09:00:53 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 23, 2022, 08:05:52 AM
Not sure what all the fuss is about. Soccer and rugby are done for the summer (after the two euro finals next Saturday). GAA has a complete monopoly on sports for June and July. Then club has top billing from August onwards. That is literally what the majority were asking for.

A lot of hullabaloo is because Tipp are out so soon in the hurling. Boo hoo, they were shite and deserved to be gone.

This is the upcoming fixture list:

May 28/29: Provincial finals and Tailteann 1st round
June 4/5: Qualifiers 1 and Tailteann QF
June 11/12: Qualifiers 2
June 19: Tailteann SF
June 25/26: All Ireland QF
July 2/3: [hurling semi finals]
July 9/10: All Ireland semis, Tailteann final, minor final (double bill each day)
July 17: All Ireland hurling final
July 24: All Ireland football final

That's fantastic. 9 weekends in a row. And apart from the first one, GAA is the only show in town.

Rugby regular season is done. The playoffs are still to come over June
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 23, 2022, 09:20:15 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 23, 2022, 08:05:52 AM
Not sure what all the fuss is about. Soccer and rugby are done for the summer (after the two euro finals next Saturday). GAA has a complete monopoly on sports for June and July. Then club has top billing from August onwards. That is literally what the majority were asking for.

A lot of hullabaloo is because Tipp are out so soon in the hurling. Boo hoo, they were shite and deserved to be gone.

This is the upcoming fixture list:

May 28/29: Provincial finals and Tailteann 1st round
June 4/5: Qualifiers 1 and Tailteann QF
June 11/12: Qualifiers 2
June 19: Tailteann SF
June 25/26: All Ireland QF
July 2/3: [hurling semi finals]
July 9/10: All Ireland semis, Tailteann final, minor final (double bill each day)
July 17: All Ireland hurling final
July 24: All Ireland football final

That's fantastic. 9 weekends in a row. And apart from the first one, GAA is the only show in town.
Only because the World Cup is in Qatar in December. FIFA corruption is a separate issue.

2024 Euros take place between 14 June – 14 July. Every 2 years this will happen because of the nature of soccer seasons.
Running the feature games of the all Ireland hurling and football between 14 June – 14 July is insane.
BTW the GAA has changed the football championship 5 times in the last 6 seasons so coherence isn't necessarily a feature.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on May 23, 2022, 09:51:50 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2022, 09:20:15 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 23, 2022, 08:05:52 AM
Not sure what all the fuss is about. Soccer and rugby are done for the summer (after the two euro finals next Saturday). GAA has a complete monopoly on sports for June and July. Then club has top billing from August onwards. That is literally what the majority were asking for.

A lot of hullabaloo is because Tipp are out so soon in the hurling. Boo hoo, they were shite and deserved to be gone.

This is the upcoming fixture list:

May 28/29: Provincial finals and Tailteann 1st round
June 4/5: Qualifiers 1 and Tailteann QF
June 11/12: Qualifiers 2
June 19: Tailteann SF
June 25/26: All Ireland QF
July 2/3: [hurling semi finals]
July 9/10: All Ireland semis, Tailteann final, minor final (double bill each day)
July 17: All Ireland hurling final
July 24: All Ireland football final

That's fantastic. 9 weekends in a row. And apart from the first one, GAA is the only show in town.
Only because the World Cup is in Qatar in December. FIFA corruption is a separate issue.

2024 Euros take place between 14 June – 14 July. Every 2 years this will happen because of the nature of soccer seasons.
Running the feature games of the all Ireland hurling and football between 14 June – 14 July is insane.
BTW the GAA has changed the football championship 5 times in the last 6 seasons so coherence isn't necessarily a feature.

So what? Who is more important ; the club player who actually plays the sport , or the punter who won't go to their county's championship game because Germany are playing Ghana on tv?
This obsession with other sports is so weird.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: HiMucker on May 23, 2022, 09:57:09 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2022, 09:20:15 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 23, 2022, 08:05:52 AM
Not sure what all the fuss is about. Soccer and rugby are done for the summer (after the two euro finals next Saturday). GAA has a complete monopoly on sports for June and July. Then club has top billing from August onwards. That is literally what the majority were asking for.

A lot of hullabaloo is because Tipp are out so soon in the hurling. Boo hoo, they were shite and deserved to be gone.

This is the upcoming fixture list:

May 28/29: Provincial finals and Tailteann 1st round
June 4/5: Qualifiers 1 and Tailteann QF
June 11/12: Qualifiers 2
June 19: Tailteann SF
June 25/26: All Ireland QF
July 2/3: [hurling semi finals]
July 9/10: All Ireland semis, Tailteann final, minor final (double bill each day)
July 17: All Ireland hurling final
July 24: All Ireland football final

That's fantastic. 9 weekends in a row. And apart from the first one, GAA is the only show in town.
Only because the World Cup is in Qatar in December. FIFA corruption is a separate issue.

2024 Euros take place between 14 June – 14 July. Every 2 years this will happen because of the nature of soccer seasons.
Running the feature games of the all Ireland hurling and football between 14 June – 14 July is insane.
BTW the GAA has changed the football championship 5 times in the last 6 seasons so coherence isn't necessarily a feature.
Insane?? Talk about an over reaction. Hounds and Sharks posts are bang on.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 23, 2022, 11:50:09 AM
33 Football and 9 hurley stuff games to come.
Who couldn't be excited?
Now if we could have a new name on Sam....or at least someone whose name hasn't been on it for a long time...like 78 years....
As for hurling a Wexford win would be nice!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on May 23, 2022, 01:18:27 PM
The HURLING MEN who suddenly care about Westmeath hurlers...They are talking about Westmeath hurlers on an RTÉ show that has never in my memory put them on telly live.

GPA original Donal Og is now on board for a games promotion argument in spite of the fact that players at all levels are keen on a split season.

Can anyone confirm when the Dub hurling championship is starting as I see lads on Twitter contradicting the Sept statement?

Now games promotion is the big worry even though most GAA players can't talk to media during the season bar crappy press nights. Like we lose so many youngsters every year to simply giving up and we are worried about the Premier League and Munster Rugby?!

Let's be honest the fun is only starting now!



Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on May 23, 2022, 02:08:27 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 23, 2022, 01:18:27 PM
The HURLING MEN who suddenly care about Westmeath hurlers...They are talking about Westmeath hurlers on an RTÉ show that has never in my memory put them on telly live.

GPA original Donal Og is now on board for a games promotion argument in spite of the fact that players at all levels are keen on a split season.

Can anyone confirm when the Dub hurling championship is starting as I see lads on Twitter contradicting the Sept statement?

Now games promotion is the big worry even though most GAA players can't talk to media during the season bar crappy press nights. Like we lose so many youngsters every year to simply giving up and we are worried that the Premier League and Munster Rugby?!

Let's be honest the fun is only starting now!

Exactly. The "other sports" argument is not based on anything real. It's a bogeyman. Idleness is the competition - not other sports.
This entire argument is being pushed really hard by RTE and others in media - it's so transparent. Pretending they give two hoots about the Westmeath hurlers, when they shot their game against Wexford through the back end of a telescope. Almost every single player on the Westmeath hurling panel is a club footballer too. The majority with senior clubs. They have, at a minimum, 11 championship games ahead of them between hurling and football. Their season is far from over.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 23, 2022, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: shark on May 23, 2022, 02:08:27 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 23, 2022, 01:18:27 PM
The HURLING MEN who suddenly care about Westmeath hurlers...They are talking about Westmeath hurlers on an RTÉ show that has never in my memory put them on telly live.

GPA original Donal Og is now on board for a games promotion argument in spite of the fact that players at all levels are keen on a split season.

Can anyone confirm when the Dub hurling championship is starting as I see lads on Twitter contradicting the Sept statement?

Now games promotion is the big worry even though most GAA players can't talk to media during the season bar crappy press nights. Like we lose so many youngsters every year to simply giving up and we are worried that the Premier League and Munster Rugby?!


Let's be honest the fun is only starting now!

Exactly. The "other sports" argument is not based on anything real. It's a bogeyman. Idleness is the competition - not other sports.
This entire argument is being pushed really hard by RTE and others in media - it's so transparent. Pretending they give two hoots about the Westmeath hurlers, when they shot their game against Wexford through the back end of a telescope. Almost every single player on the Westmeath hurling panel is a club footballer too. The majority with senior clubs. They have, at a minimum, 11 championship games ahead of them between hurling and football. Their season is far from over.

Not in June/July during a World Cup/euros. RTE sell ad space based on TAM ratings.  TV sport is competitive.
The GAA has a shop window and it's handing it over in August/September.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on May 23, 2022, 09:24:56 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2022, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: shark on May 23, 2022, 02:08:27 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 23, 2022, 01:18:27 PM
The HURLING MEN who suddenly care about Westmeath hurlers...They are talking about Westmeath hurlers on an RTÉ show that has never in my memory put them on telly live.

GPA original Donal Og is now on board for a games promotion argument in spite of the fact that players at all levels are keen on a split season.

Can anyone confirm when the Dub hurling championship is starting as I see lads on Twitter contradicting the Sept statement?

Now games promotion is the big worry even though most GAA players can't talk to media during the season bar crappy press nights. Like we lose so many youngsters every year to simply giving up and we are worried that the Premier League and Munster Rugby?!


Let's be honest the fun is only starting now!

Exactly. The "other sports" argument is not based on anything real. It's a bogeyman. Idleness is the competition - not other sports.
This entire argument is being pushed really hard by RTE and others in media - it's so transparent. Pretending they give two hoots about the Westmeath hurlers, when they shot their game against Wexford through the back end of a telescope. Almost every single player on the Westmeath hurling panel is a club footballer too. The majority with senior clubs. They have, at a minimum, 11 championship games ahead of them between hurling and football. Their season is far from over.

Not in June/July during a World Cup/euros. RTE sell ad space based on TAM ratings.  TV sport is competitive.
The GAA has a shop window and it's handing it over in August/September.

Wait, I thought the "shop window" argument was about capturing the hearts and minds of the nation. About the kids who'll otherwise spend their time playing other sports and the GAA would be fecked.
Now that I hear it's about advertisement space. Why do the RTE panellists not make this argument? As they'd lose all credibility immediately.
GAA is a sporting organisation, not a business. The people who actually play the sport came together to make this change happen. It was long overdue.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on May 23, 2022, 11:49:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2022, 08:57:26 PM
Quote from: shark on May 23, 2022, 02:08:27 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 23, 2022, 01:18:27 PM
The HURLING MEN who suddenly care about Westmeath hurlers...They are talking about Westmeath hurlers on an RTÉ show that has never in my memory put them on telly live.

GPA original Donal Og is now on board for a games promotion argument in spite of the fact that players at all levels are keen on a split season.

Can anyone confirm when the Dub hurling championship is starting as I see lads on Twitter contradicting the Sept statement?

Now games promotion is the big worry even though most GAA players can't talk to media during the season bar crappy press nights. Like we lose so many youngsters every year to simply giving up and we are worried that the Premier League and Munster Rugby?!


Let's be honest the fun is only starting now!

Exactly. The "other sports" argument is not based on anything real. It's a bogeyman. Idleness is the competition - not other sports.
This entire argument is being pushed really hard by RTE and others in media - it's so transparent. Pretending they give two hoots about the Westmeath hurlers, when they shot their game against Wexford through the back end of a telescope. Almost every single player on the Westmeath hurling panel is a club footballer too. The majority with senior clubs. They have, at a minimum, 11 championship games ahead of them between hurling and football. Their season is far from over.

Not in June/July during a World Cup/euros. RTE sell ad space based on TAM ratings.  TV sport is competitive.
The GAA has a shop window and it's handing it over in August/September.

The GAA's shop window is the fact that thousands of towns and villages across Ireland enjoy prime location facilities, and that kids are wired into the game from an early age through family ties, civic pride, and primary school connections.

That's our USP. Always will be. That and the fact that you can still skelp an opponent.

We cannot compete with the EPL on their terms, using their methods. It's daft to think we can.

As described above, our competition isn't with other sports. The challenge is to keep going, doing what we do best. Not to compete.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Hound on May 24, 2022, 08:00:32 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 23, 2022, 01:18:27 PM
The HURLING MEN who suddenly care about Westmeath hurlers...They are talking about Westmeath hurlers on an RTÉ show that has never in my memory put them on telly live.

GPA original Donal Og is now on board for a games promotion argument in spite of the fact that players at all levels are keen on a split season.

Can anyone confirm when the Dub hurling championship is starting as I see lads on Twitter contradicting the Sept statement?

Now games promotion is the big worry even though most GAA players can't talk to media during the season bar crappy press nights. Like we lose so many youngsters every year to simply giving up and we are worried about the Premier League and Munster Rugby?!

Let's be honest the fun is only starting now!

Dublin Senior Hurling Championship starts on July 20

Dublin Senior Football Championship starts on August 6
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on May 25, 2022, 10:59:54 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 24, 2022, 08:00:32 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 23, 2022, 01:18:27 PM
The HURLING MEN who suddenly care about Westmeath hurlers...They are talking about Westmeath hurlers on an RTÉ show that has never in my memory put them on telly live.

GPA original Donal Og is now on board for a games promotion argument in spite of the fact that players at all levels are keen on a split season.

Can anyone confirm when the Dub hurling championship is starting as I see lads on Twitter contradicting the Sept statement?

Now games promotion is the big worry even though most GAA players can't talk to media during the season bar crappy press nights. Like we lose so many youngsters every year to simply giving up and we are worried about the Premier League and Munster Rugby?!

Let's be honest the fun is only starting now!

Dublin Senior Hurling Championship starts on July 20

Dublin Senior Football Championship starts on August 6
How many Dublin county footballers play hurling for their clubs? Would the clubs be up in arms should the Dublin team reach the All-Ireland final?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on May 26, 2022, 02:18:52 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 25, 2022, 10:59:54 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 24, 2022, 08:00:32 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 23, 2022, 01:18:27 PM
The HURLING MEN who suddenly care about Westmeath hurlers...They are talking about Westmeath hurlers on an RTÉ show that has never in my memory put them on telly live.

GPA original Donal Og is now on board for a games promotion argument in spite of the fact that players at all levels are keen on a split season.

Can anyone confirm when the Dub hurling championship is starting as I see lads on Twitter contradicting the Sept statement?

Now games promotion is the big worry even though most GAA players can't talk to media during the season bar crappy press nights. Like we lose so many youngsters every year to simply giving up and we are worried about the Premier League and Munster Rugby?!

Let's be honest the fun is only starting now!

Dublin Senior Hurling Championship starts on July 20

Dublin Senior Football Championship starts on August 6
How many Dublin county footballers play hurling for their clubs? Would the clubs be up in arms should the Dublin team reach the All-Ireland final?

Cuala certainly would.

Des Cahill would turn grey if they couldn't play games without Con.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on May 26, 2022, 02:34:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 26, 2022, 02:18:52 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 25, 2022, 10:59:54 AM
Quote from: Hound on May 24, 2022, 08:00:32 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 23, 2022, 01:18:27 PM
The HURLING MEN who suddenly care about Westmeath hurlers...They are talking about Westmeath hurlers on an RTÉ show that has never in my memory put them on telly live.

GPA original Donal Og is now on board for a games promotion argument in spite of the fact that players at all levels are keen on a split season.

Can anyone confirm when the Dub hurling championship is starting as I see lads on Twitter contradicting the Sept statement?

Now games promotion is the big worry even though most GAA players can't talk to media during the season bar crappy press nights. Like we lose so many youngsters every year to simply giving up and we are worried about the Premier League and Munster Rugby?!

Let's be honest the fun is only starting now!

Dublin Senior Hurling Championship starts on July 20

Dublin Senior Football Championship starts on August 6
How many Dublin county footballers play hurling for their clubs? Would the clubs be up in arms should the Dublin team reach the All-Ireland final?

Cuala certainly would.

Des Cahill would turn grey if they couldn't play games without Con.

They played the county u21 football final without him a few years ago , as it clashed with Cuala's run in the Leinster hurling. Think they lost by a point. In any other county it would have been postposed 6 months - or longer.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on May 27, 2022, 12:35:14 PM
I see on twitter than Galway Hurlers are not having a press night and Kerry Footballers didn't speak at theirs...what about the shop window for the childer to see find out more and see their heroes???!!!!


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: tiempo on May 27, 2022, 04:20:47 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on May 27, 2022, 12:35:14 PM
I see on twitter than Galway Hurlers are not having a press night and Kerry Footballers didn't speak at theirs...what about the shop window for the childer to see find out more and see their heroes???!!!!

All all the better we are for it, if this is anything GPA related they need brought down a peg or 2 for their ongoing con
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on June 09, 2022, 05:22:55 PM
One of the issues with a congested season is games will clash and underage matches like this weekends All Ireland minor quarter finals loses the lime light that those groups of young players deserve.

Saturday

All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers round 2
Kildare v Mayo, Croke Park, 6pm
Roscommon v Clare, Croke Park 3:45pm


All-Ireland MFC quarter-fiinals
Cork v Derry, Portlaoise, 6pm
Tyrone v Kerry, Portlaoise, 4pm

Sunday

All-Ireland SFC Qualifiers round 2
Armagh v Donegal, Clones, 4pm
Cork v Limerick, Pairc Ui Chaoimh, 1.30pm

All-Ireland MFC quarter-finals
Mayo v Kildare, Tullamore, 2.30pm
Dublin v Galway, Tullamore, 12.30pm

Of course those at the top could have scheduled things better and had a few triple headers perhaps?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on June 26, 2022, 04:57:22 PM
I'm currently laughing out loud at those who reckoned the value of the championship was related to its late summer position.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on June 29, 2022, 12:10:25 PM
Some nonsense talked here

This new season has been a dream for most

Also, can we not screen the club finals from around the country in August/Sept?

TG4's screening of club games is one of the best things to happen in the GAA in a generation
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on June 30, 2022, 09:42:53 AM
Now is not the time to make the judgement, we're all enthralled by the amount of top level action going on week after week - the youngsters out my way are all out on the green with their hurls and footballs and pretty engaged in what's going on in the Championship.  But, to my mind it's a bit like Wimbledon, you know the week where we all got our tennis rackets out (little wooden things with thick plastic strings - usually a crack in the wood too) and tried to play tennis again.

The time to really assess the damage this is doing is in the break from the end of July right through to the start of April next year, when action really seeps into the consciousness of most people.
You can talk all you like about how club games will replace the void, but for the large majority, they simply won't.  In rural Ireland where the club is the heart of the community, yes club championships will do the job, but, most people live in urban areas and I don't know of any large urban area where clubs have anywhere near the same level of mass community buy-in as in rural areas.
In Dublin, there's almost no awareness of what is going on at club level, numbers playing underage (at least to u12) are massive, but few parents or kids know anything of what's happening at senior level.  Club championship games here attract low hundreds, if well marketed.  Like clubs everywhere there's always a core of people who are totally involved, and pretty much do everything, but they represent a tiny fraction of the local population. 
For most people here in Dublin and I guess the other larger urban areas, GAA will be gone from the start of August until the end of April.  For kids, they'll keep on attending training and matches, but other sports will be hold their interest and be their passion.

I think the extension into August for both championships would provide a little bit extra, not saying it would solve the issue, there's definitely loads the GAA could do in terms of upping the appeal and interest in their games (laugh if you like, but fantasy games and official short highlights packages from every game would be great for kids who tend to be obsessed with such things), but having that slightly longer window would at least leave games in the shop window a little longer and allow for less concentration of games on particular weekends, such as we had throughout May and June.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Redhand Santa on June 30, 2022, 10:44:24 AM
The split season was sold on the basis that club championships would take precedent during the summer when clubs would have access to all of their players. But even in the first year this seems to be far from the case. A lot of counties aren't starting their championship to September. And another problem is a huge volume of players including numerous top level county players are heading to America for the Summer to play and won't be available anyway. This dilutes the club action to a certain extent.

Also given the cost of attending county games it can be costly going straight from league into championship. Personally I think based on the new system next year they should run the provincial championships and league of by the end of April. Then sort out the county fixtures for the rest of the championship when all teams known and allow teams/fans time to plan. Allow players back to play club games for a 5/6 week period. Then play inter county from mid June and have it wrapped up by the end of August. Will ensure less clashes of big games with other sports too.

No system is perfect but the idea of the split season isn't working out as planned at all.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on June 30, 2022, 11:31:55 AM
That 5 ir 6 week period will likely see County managers running maniac training sessions or weekends away meaning Co players won't get a chance to play club anyway.
By the way did I hear that Mayowestros only started their adult Leagues 1st June?!
I'd say the local soccer clubs in Mayo were delighted!!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on June 30, 2022, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 30, 2022, 10:44:24 AM
The split season was sold on the basis that club championships would take precedent during the summer when clubs would have access to all of their players. But even in the first year this seems to be far from the case. A lot of counties aren't starting their championship to September. And another problem is a huge volume of players including numerous top level county players are heading to America for the Summer to play and won't be available anyway. This dilutes the club action to a certain extent.

Also given the cost of attending county games it can be costly going straight from league into championship. Personally I think based on the new system next year they should run the provincial championships and league of by the end of April. Then sort out the county fixtures for the rest of the championship when all teams known and allow teams/fans time to plan. Allow players back to play club games for a 5/6 week period. Then play inter county from mid June and have it wrapped up by the end of August. Will ensure less clashes of big games with other sports too.

No system is perfect but the idea of the split season isn't working out as planned at all.
I know in Armagh the championship is starting late August but the leagues are going right up to then with maybe a two week break pre championship. Can't really blame lads for going to America and best of luck to all that do it, any Armagh lads going will be back for club championship as far as I know. Think this system is fairly decent although given recent events time needs to be set aside for replays! ;)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Redhand Santa on June 30, 2022, 11:52:42 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 30, 2022, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 30, 2022, 10:44:24 AM
The split season was sold on the basis that club championships would take precedent during the summer when clubs would have access to all of their players. But even in the first year this seems to be far from the case. A lot of counties aren't starting their championship to September. And another problem is a huge volume of players including numerous top level county players are heading to America for the Summer to play and won't be available anyway. This dilutes the club action to a certain extent.

Also given the cost of attending county games it can be costly going straight from league into championship. Personally I think based on the new system next year they should run the provincial championships and league of by the end of April. Then sort out the county fixtures for the rest of the championship when all teams known and allow teams/fans time to plan. Allow players back to play club games for a 5/6 week period. Then play inter county from mid June and have it wrapped up by the end of August. Will ensure less clashes of big games with other sports too.

No system is perfect but the idea of the split season isn't working out as planned at all.
I know in Armagh the championship is starting late August but the leagues are going right up to then with maybe a two week break pre championship. Can't really blame lads for going to America and best of luck to all that do it, any Armagh lads going will be back for club championship as far as I know. Think this system is fairly decent although given recent events time needs to be set aside for replays! ;)

I'm not criticising lads for going to America. I just don't know how much sense it makes to stop playing county football during the summer. The reason was to allow for top quality club action from mid July to the end of August. In reality there will be very little club championship football played and the league games will be played of without a host of players who are away for the summer.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on June 30, 2022, 11:58:55 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 30, 2022, 11:52:42 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 30, 2022, 11:48:28 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on June 30, 2022, 10:44:24 AM
The split season was sold on the basis that club championships would take precedent during the summer when clubs would have access to all of their players. But even in the first year this seems to be far from the case. A lot of counties aren't starting their championship to September. And another problem is a huge volume of players including numerous top level county players are heading to America for the Summer to play and won't be available anyway. This dilutes the club action to a certain extent.

Also given the cost of attending county games it can be costly going straight from league into championship. Personally I think based on the new system next year they should run the provincial championships and league of by the end of April. Then sort out the county fixtures for the rest of the championship when all teams known and allow teams/fans time to plan. Allow players back to play club games for a 5/6 week period. Then play inter county from mid June and have it wrapped up by the end of August. Will ensure less clashes of big games with other sports too.

No system is perfect but the idea of the split season isn't working out as planned at all.
I know in Armagh the championship is starting late August but the leagues are going right up to then with maybe a two week break pre championship. Can't really blame lads for going to America and best of luck to all that do it, any Armagh lads going will be back for club championship as far as I know. Think this system is fairly decent although given recent events time needs to be set aside for replays! ;)

I'm not criticising lads for going to America. I just don't know how much sense it makes to stop playing county football during the summer. The reason was to allow for top quality club action from mid July to the end of August. In reality there will be very little club championship football played and the league games will be played of without a host of players who are away for the summer.
Not sure about other counties but in Armagh we tend to finish up the leagues before the championship starts. Maybe a system that all league games are finished up by the time the all ireland comes around then club championship starts the following week (bar the 2 finalists). Completely agree with what you're saying.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: pbat on June 30, 2022, 06:34:08 PM
Its more apparent now that the GPA's big push for the split season was nothing to do with average club players and all to do with the lure of the Dollar for the elites.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on June 30, 2022, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: pbat on June 30, 2022, 06:34:08 PM
Its more apparent now that the GPA's big push for the split season was nothing to do with average club players and all to do with the lure of the Dollar for the elites.

I love a bit of GPA bashing myself, but it wasn't them that drove the split season.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: pbat on June 30, 2022, 06:53:20 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40030529.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 30, 2022, 07:00:39 PM
Football final 24 July. 5 months to Christmas .

Cad a dhéanfaimid feasta gan adhmad ?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on June 30, 2022, 07:19:21 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 30, 2022, 06:50:38 PM
Quote from: pbat on June 30, 2022, 06:34:08 PM
Its more apparent now that the GPA's big push for the split season was nothing to do with average club players and all to do with the lure of the Dollar for the elites.

I love a bit of GPA bashing myself, but it wasn't them that drove the split season.
What really drove it over the line was playing Club Championships first after the Covid closedown in 2020 .
Virtually everybody said Club Championships should be played when  no County games were happening.
Weren't the AI hurling and football Finals already brought forward a few weeks in 18 and 19?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: JBM on the 21 on June 30, 2022, 07:40:23 PM
How would it have fared if a summer World Cup had taken place?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 30, 2022, 07:49:53 PM
Quote from: JBM on the 21 on June 30, 2022, 07:40:23 PM
How would it have fared if a summer World Cup had taken place?
I don't think it would have.

We are approaching the peak of the season and next year it will coincide with the Euros.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Derryman forever on July 01, 2022, 01:36:31 PM
Quote from: JBM on the 21 on June 30, 2022, 07:40:23 PM
How would it have fared if a summer World Cup had taken place?

Fifa would have reprogrammed ,obviously.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 02, 2022, 02:25:23 PM
Busy with the J1s this summer, Chicago GAA are to live stream games. plenty more county players gone to San Francisco, Boston, New York, Philadelphia i wonder will they do the same.

(https://serving.photos.photobox.com/55516535173ebbe30f4ba63bf1f53ca97c72e82f38b3ac46e6b8a278fce05b767d84225e.jpg)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Wildweasel74 on July 02, 2022, 06:41:21 PM
We near the end of the county season, and most club fball about round 12/15, the time for club fball, has seen alot of players piss off to America.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 03, 2022, 01:23:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2022, 07:00:39 PM
Football final 24 July. 5 months to Christmas .

Cad a dhéanfaimid feasta gan adhmad ?

Club games, club games all over the country, plenty of which I'll have next to no interest in.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 01:32:29 PM
Seeing as most adult club championships won't start till August anyway I'd suspect AI Finals will be a week or 2 later next year or 2.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: RedHand88 on July 03, 2022, 03:10:04 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on July 02, 2022, 06:41:21 PM
We near the end of the county season, and most club fball about round 12/15, the time for club fball, as seen alot of players piss off to America.

This. There are teams in America that would challenge for an all-ireland. I expect them to look at the structure again, bound to be having second thoughts.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Gael80 on July 03, 2022, 04:29:28 PM
At this rate Sky Sports will be buying the rights to US GAA, that's where it's all happening . They must be delighted over there with the competitions they can now organise for 6 weeks.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Make all temporary transfers last for 6 months.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: TheMistro on July 03, 2022, 08:04:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 01:32:29 PM
Seeing as most adult club championships won't start till August anyway I'd suspect AI Finals will be a week or 2 later next year or 2.

When are All Ireland club final this year?  Counties in particular dual cutting it tight starting in August.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on July 03, 2022, 09:38:30 PM
Quote from: TheMistro on July 03, 2022, 08:04:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 01:32:29 PM
Seeing as most adult club championships won't start till August anyway I'd suspect AI Finals will be a week or 2 later next year or 2.

When are All Ireland club final this year? Counties in particular dual cutting it tight starting in August.
January 2023.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on July 03, 2022, 10:05:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Make all temporary transfers last for 6 months.
no chance. Let the lads go and enjoy themselves in the US make a few quid then come home and play club championship. The effort they put in for their county all year its the least they deserve.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on July 03, 2022, 11:36:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Make all temporary transfers last for 6 months.

Do that and the unintended consequences will quickly appear.

Currently America is a jolly for students. Go out for a few months and enjoy no strings attached football. They've to be back for September anyway to continue their education.

Move it to a 6 month stay and the sponsors no longer target students. Instead they go after graduates, and that 6 month term will often turn into a year, a couple of years, a lifetime.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Gael80 on July 04, 2022, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Make all temporary transfers last for 6 months.

I wouldn't agree with that, let them go out to play a bit of football and have a summer break if they're out of the inter county championships, playing club league games is no comparsion to a few months in the US.

However we do need to review the schedule in Ireland, we don't need penalities to decide latter stage games or such a short All Ireland series to facilitate players going over to the US, which is what the new system effectively does. Push the All Ireland Finals into August!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on July 04, 2022, 07:47:05 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Make all temporary transfers last for 6 months.

Ah, a fun killer. Let them go out and have their fun, it's a few months, they'll be back for club championship, it's harming no one. Let them at it
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 04, 2022, 09:38:13 AM
A lot of support for semi Professionalism I see ::)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: pbat on July 04, 2022, 10:12:19 AM
Id go even further RossFan and outlaw any outside managers or coaches for the clubs or county. In the event a small club genuinely cant get a clubman to do it they have to make a case to the county board justifying the need to approach an outside man. Kill the mercenary manager gravy train. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on July 04, 2022, 11:10:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 04, 2022, 09:38:13 AM
A lot of support for semi Professionalism I see ::)

It is already, even here
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Keyser soze on July 04, 2022, 12:12:22 PM
As the Chinese leader in the 1980's said when asked about the French Revolution 'it's much too early to say if it's been a success'
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: keep her low this half on July 04, 2022, 03:45:52 PM
Quote from: pbat on July 04, 2022, 10:12:19 AM
Id go even further RossFan and outlaw any outside managers or coaches for the clubs or county. In the event a small club genuinely cant get a clubman to do it they have to make a case to the county board justifying the need to approach an outside man. Kill the mercenary manager gravy train.
I am with you, draft up a proposal for Croke park
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cavan19 on July 04, 2022, 03:47:51 PM
Quote from: Gael80 on July 04, 2022, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Make all temporary transfers last for 6 months.

I wouldn't agree with that, let them go out to play a bit of football and have a summer break if they're out of the inter county championships, playing club league games is no comparsion to a few months in the US.

However we do need to review the schedule in Ireland, we don't need penalities to decide latter stage games or such a short All Ireland series to facilitate players going over to the US, which is what the new system effectively does. Push the All Ireland Finals into August!

If they play intercounty Championship they  won't get a transfer AFAIK.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on July 04, 2022, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 04, 2022, 03:47:51 PM
Quote from: Gael80 on July 04, 2022, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Make all temporary transfers last for 6 months.

I wouldn't agree with that, let them go out to play a bit of football and have a summer break if they're out of the inter county championships, playing club league games is no comparsion to a few months in the US.

However we do need to review the schedule in Ireland, we don't need penalities to decide latter stage games or such a short All Ireland series to facilitate players going over to the US, which is what the new system effectively does. Push the All Ireland Finals into August!

If they play intercounty Championship they  won't get a transfer AFAIK.
What? Half of Armagh, Down,  Mayo and more are out there at the min
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cavan19 on July 04, 2022, 03:50:30 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on July 04, 2022, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 04, 2022, 03:47:51 PM
Quote from: Gael80 on July 04, 2022, 07:41:53 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 03, 2022, 07:29:41 PM
Make all temporary transfers last for 6 months.

I wouldn't agree with that, let them go out to play a bit of football and have a summer break if they're out of the inter county championships, playing club league games is no comparsion to a few months in the US.

However we do need to review the schedule in Ireland, we don't need penalities to decide latter stage games or such a short All Ireland series to facilitate players going over to the US, which is what the new system effectively does. Push the All Ireland Finals into August!

If they play intercounty Championship they  won't get a transfer AFAIK.
What? Half of Armagh, Down,  Mayo and more are out there at the min

Is that not the reason the Derry guy pulled of the panel a week or 2 before championhsip?

Edit: Could be completely wrong though i read it here.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 04, 2022, 03:55:14 PM
Isn't it that you can't get a transfer until your County exits the Championship (incl TC)?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Loughshore2022 on July 04, 2022, 04:14:23 PM
It is not so good for casual fan who doesn't care about club GAA so basically the next time I will watch sport will be January. Maybe I should start watching American football, I am not sure I could stomach the wokeness of that now.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Dreadnought on July 05, 2022, 07:20:57 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 04, 2022, 03:55:14 PM
Isn't it that you can't get a transfer until your County exits the Championship (incl TC)?

Correct, only players from those counties that are already out are over in the US
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on July 05, 2022, 09:03:50 AM
Quote from: Loughshore2022 on July 04, 2022, 04:14:23 PM
It is not so good for casual fan who doesn't care about club GAA so basically the next time I will watch sport will be January. Maybe I should start watching American football, I am not sure I could stomach the wokeness of that now.
Maybe get interested in the club scene. Does be some cracking games and tg4 cover a lot of them.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: TheMistro on July 07, 2022, 01:56:18 PM
The early championship has been damp squid.  A lot of people on holidays in June July. Pros it benefits the ordinary club player who have brushed aside the last 20 year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on July 07, 2022, 02:52:20 PM
Quote from: TheMistro on July 07, 2022, 01:56:18 PM
The early championship has been damp squid.  A lot of people on holidays in June July. Pros it benefits the ordinary club player who have brushed aside the last 20 year.

And that benefit is what really matters , as every player is a club player. People can go on holidays whenever they want , it's not relevant. And certainly not sure how seafood is relevant ;)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 17, 2022, 12:14:16 PM
For a change Club Leagues were run and completed in a defined timeframe before Championships start.
The 5 Ros adult League Finals were last weekend (1 conceded ...)
Previously the last 3 or 4 Rounds and Finals were regularly held over till after Championships and would have seen Finals played in December or God knows when.
Also Counties with teams reaching AI Finals will be able to start Club Championships the same time as every other County. Before they were rushing things through to get done before Provincials started leading to things like playing a Semi Final on a Monday night, Final on a Friday and Provincial on a Sunday.
It does mean a more condensed County season with less time between games for blather in the media and build up etc. but improves the games to training ratio.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on July 17, 2022, 01:11:33 PM
Players want games and they are coming thick and fast this year. The club scene is already really up and running and we even say the lesser-spotted county man line out for some league games.

It's just a case of a new cycle for everyone to get used to, but look at the craic in Westmeath after the Tailteann Cup. The players are in favour of these changes and there is no point in going against the majority over the screen time merchants and the pundits who are not arsed doing any homework on club action anyway.

RTÉ and TG4 will both be at it for the club scene in decent weather in a few months too.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: sam03/05 on July 17, 2022, 09:47:39 PM
August will be rubbish
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: lenny on July 17, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: sam03/05 on July 17, 2022, 09:47:39 PM
August will be rubbish

Only from a tv point of view. Lots of club games of real quality to look forward to.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Turf on July 18, 2022, 07:47:28 AM
Was definitely strange having the All Ireland Final yesterday in July. Has it been a success or not I suppose in the grander scheme of things it doesn't really matter does it? We have an All Ireland winner anyways so does it matter if it's July or September.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: naka on July 18, 2022, 10:37:51 AM
there were a fair few spaces about croker yesterday and definitely any amount of tickets to be bought outside,
not sure if its because the final is being played at the height of summer or just teh cost of a day out.
be interesting to see what happens next weekend.
for me i definitely think its too congested and hasnt really been a success 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: marty34 on July 18, 2022, 11:02:15 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 17, 2022, 01:11:33 PM
Players want games and they are coming thick and fast this year. The club scene is already really up and running and we even say the lesser-spotted county man line out for some league games.

It's just a case of a new cycle for everyone to get used to, but look at the craic in Westmeath after the Tailteann Cup. The players are in favour of these changes and there is no point in going against the majority over the screen time merchants and the pundits who are not arsed doing any homework on club action anyway.

RTÉ and TG4 will both be at it for the club scene in decent weather in a few months too.

Are RTE covering club games again this year?

Any games pencilled in yet?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on July 18, 2022, 01:40:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on July 17, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: sam03/05 on July 17, 2022, 09:47:39 PM
August will be rubbish

Only from a tv point of view. Lots of club games of real quality to look forward to.
GAA becoming niche for about half the population. There'll be little awareness of it again until next May, then it'll get a 2 month window in the sun when there's so many games people can't keep track of them anyway. Not a way to build a lifelong passion in our games imo and suspect it will be revisited once the financial implications become clear too.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on July 18, 2022, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: onefineday on July 18, 2022, 01:40:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on July 17, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: sam03/05 on July 17, 2022, 09:47:39 PM
August will be rubbish

Only from a tv point of view. Lots of club games of real quality to look forward to.
GAA becoming niche for about half the population. There'll be little awareness of it again until next May, then it'll get a 2 month window in the sun when there's so many games people can't keep track of them anyway. Not a way to build a lifelong passion in our games imo and suspect it will be revisited once the financial implications become clear too.

Not sure how you can quantify the financial impact in a meaningful way considering the cost of living has sky rocketed and if anything the GAA hasn't help by the pricing of tickets for the semi-finals (€55) and the finals ($80) probably put quite a few off.

The other side of this is that County Boards aren't having to spend so much on team managements, traveling expenses, backroom teams with the condensed season, but I can see a few tweaks coming with maybe the two finals pushed out to the end of July/early August based on club championships not starting till the latter part of August driven by player availability, i.e. holidays and J1 visas.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: mad tan on July 18, 2022, 02:37:59 PM
The Div 1 League Final was played last weekend. When I saw the result on the local paper I had to phone a friend to ask was it this years or last years final. It was great to get the leagues played but it seems teams played Saturday and Wednesday evenings so it was rushed. OK now the Championship starts five or six group  games. If a teams fails to make the knockout stage there season will be over second week of September. Is that what Clubs want.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on July 19, 2022, 12:44:34 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 18, 2022, 02:14:03 PM
Quote from: onefineday on July 18, 2022, 01:40:07 PM
Quote from: lenny on July 17, 2022, 09:56:51 PM
Quote from: sam03/05 on July 17, 2022, 09:47:39 PM
August will be rubbish

Only from a tv point of view. Lots of club games of real quality to look forward to.
GAA becoming niche for about half the population. There'll be little awareness of it again until next May, then it'll get a 2 month window in the sun when there's so many games people can't keep track of them anyway. Not a way to build a lifelong passion in our games imo and suspect it will be revisited once the financial implications become clear too.

Not sure how you can quantify the financial impact in a meaningful way considering the cost of living has sky rocketed and if anything the GAA hasn't help by the pricing of tickets for the semi-finals (€55) and the finals ($80) probably put quite a few off.

The other side of this is that County Boards aren't having to spend so much on team managements, traveling expenses, backroom teams with the condensed season, but I can see a few tweaks coming with maybe the two finals pushed out to the end of July/early August based on club championships not starting till the latter part of August driven by player availability, i.e. holidays and J1 visas.
I don't think there's been a huge problem with football attendances. The financial implications are more around the value of the product to sponsors and TV given the tiny exposure window the games now have. Another problem for TV/media is trying to give coverage to everything, which just isn't possible currently when there are a multitude of top class games on simultaneously. For TV purposes the ideal is one or two games per weekend for as long as possible, sells advertising and fills schedules. 40 games over 20 weekends generates much more revenue than 40 games over 10 weekends does. Inevitably the value of your TV rights drops. Similarly with sponsors, less chances for exposure or over a relatively short window, the lower the value sponsors will put on the product.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on July 19, 2022, 09:10:46 AM
I was in Albufeira last weekend.

Walked down town for the second half of Dublin v Kerry. Almost every single bar was showing the GAA, and all of those were busy. This will only ever happen in English friendly resorts when there's nothing else to watch.

That's exposure. Sitting on your arse for a month between games doesn't generate exposure.

——-

I'd also wonder how World Cups (rugby, soccer, darts, snooker, and so o) can possibly thrive and have advertisers beating down their doors, when they run off their competitions so quickly, with multiple matches at once?

——

Exposure?

I reckon your angles are altogether skewed on this one.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on July 19, 2022, 09:42:07 AM
Ignore Joe at your leisure depending what you think of him but Lee Keegan also gives it a ringing endorsement.

https://punditarena.com/gaa/andrew-dempsey/joe-brolly-rubbishes-concerns-over-shortened-all-ireland-schedule/?amp
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 19, 2022, 10:55:33 AM
"The players want it"
Enough said.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on July 20, 2022, 01:08:27 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 19, 2022, 09:10:46 AM
I was in Albufeira last weekend.

Walked down town for the second half of Dublin v Kerry. Almost every single bar was showing the GAA, and all of those were busy. This will only ever happen in English friendly resorts when there's nothing else to watch.

That's exposure. Sitting on your arse for a month between games doesn't generate exposure.

——-

I'd also wonder how World Cups (rugby, soccer, darts, snooker, and so o) can possibly thrive and have advertisers beating down their doors, when they run off their competitions so quickly, with multiple matches at once?

——

Exposure?

I reckon your angles are altogether skewed on this one.
Let's hope any new watchers of the sport were watching Kerry v Dublin and not Galway v Derry because in truth, the less exposure that game got the better!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: keep her low this half on July 20, 2022, 08:59:06 AM
I think a lot of the objections to the shortened inter county season are being led my GAA journalists and TV analysists. A shortened inter county season means less pay checks for those guys, less weeks of the Sunday game so less TV exposure.
The GAA has a huge problem with burnout of players at the top level, if the shortened county season helps reduce this then all the better, plus the club season is greatly improved by it.
I listened to RTE radio on Sunday spend 20 minutes explaining how cruel and dangerous it was to play an all ireland final in July, completely ignoring the fact that Munster and Leinster finals have always been played in July. Lots of vested interests at play particularly in the broadcasting world.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2022, 09:17:41 AM
It's time rte started looking at the club championships to fill their spots...

Giving grassroots hurling/football a media platform throughout August and September will generate plenty of attention
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cavan19 on July 20, 2022, 09:18:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2022, 09:17:41 AM
It's time rte started looking at the club championships to fill their spots...

Giving grassroots hurling/football a media platform throughout August and September will generate plenty of attention

They have been doing that the last few years.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 20, 2022, 01:02:53 PM
exactly the club championship should be promoted more and you could say it is  far more competitive    than intercounty
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on July 21, 2022, 02:16:50 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 20, 2022, 01:02:53 PM
exactly the club championship should be promoted more and you could say it is  far more competitive    than intercounty
Yeah, the Dublin county final was a ringing endorsement for top class club football alright.
People like us will watch club games if they're on, we're in the minority. It's difficult to generate an interest for casual supporters in a club game where they've no affinity with the club or county.
Games played on shitty pitches, 15 men behind the ball, probably played in a giant stadium that's about 20% full at most. It's just not appealing to most people, and in my opinion, never will be.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on July 21, 2022, 07:46:27 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 21, 2022, 02:16:50 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 20, 2022, 01:02:53 PM
exactly the club championship should be promoted more and you could say it is  far more competitive    than intercounty
Yeah, the Dublin county final was a ringing endorsement for top class club football alright.
People like us will watch club games if they're on, we're in the minority. It's difficult to generate an interest for casual supporters in a club game where they've no affinity with the club or county.
Games played on shitty pitches, 15 men behind the ball, probably played in a giant stadium that's about 20% full at most. It's just not appealing to most people, and in my opinion, never will be.

* to most people *

Try yourself.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: yellowcard on July 21, 2022, 08:44:17 AM
Players want it and most GAA people that I speak with at grass roots club level want it. The only people who are complaining are those working in the media who are pushing their own agenda and a lot of casual armchair fans who sit at home getting their entertainment via their TV screens. Many of those same fans will take their opinions from pundits on those same sporting events. So it's mostly those working in the media who want to push this notion.

I think it's worked very well so far but wait until the end of the club season before it can be fully judged. For example I'm still at a loss as to why the AI club competitions cannot be finished within this calendar year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 21, 2022, 08:51:41 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 21, 2022, 07:46:27 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 21, 2022, 02:16:50 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 20, 2022, 01:02:53 PM
exactly the club championship should be promoted more and you could say it is  far more competitive    than intercounty
Yeah, the Dublin county final was a ringing endorsement for top class club football alright.
People like us will watch club games if they're on, we're in the minority. It's difficult to generate an interest for casual supporters in a club game where they've no affinity with the club or county.
Games played on shitty pitches, 15 men behind the ball, probably played in a giant stadium that's about 20% full at most. It's just not appealing to most people, and in my opinion, never will be.

* to most people *

Try yourself.
Most of the general public are not interested in club hurling or football games even in their own Counties never mind other Counties.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on July 21, 2022, 09:02:52 AM
Most of the general public have no interest in early round championship matches, or indeed the Super 8s. Fewer again the Tailteann Cup.

So why the county season should be dragged on interminably when there's only 8-10 matches in each code that interest the general public, I'll never know.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 21, 2022, 09:39:15 AM
Quote from: Cavan19 on July 20, 2022, 09:18:46 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 20, 2022, 09:17:41 AM
It's time rte started looking at the club championships to fill their spots...

Giving grassroots hurling/football a media platform throughout August and September will generate plenty of attention

They have been doing that the last few years.

Yes TG4 have been doing it for many years and recently RTE got their finger out and doing it now...

Club games obviously will never meet the highs of last Sundays final, but personally I love them, it's the lad from up the road ya know who's playing on National tv, brilliant promotion at grassroots and not these counties who have a separate bus to carry their gear!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: rrhf on July 21, 2022, 01:07:37 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 21, 2022, 09:02:52 AM
Most of the general public have no interest in early round championship matches, or indeed the Super 8s. Fewer again the Tailteann Cup.

So why the county season should be dragged on interminably when there's only 8-10 matches in each code that interest the general public, I'll never know.
Great point.
However I think it has been a success. It has also  let the county players cash in on their profile for the summer in the states and enjoy a bit of a life, and the clubs and the club players now know to get on with it with who they have. Not perfect but better. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on July 21, 2022, 03:53:06 PM
Quote from: onefineday on July 21, 2022, 02:16:50 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 20, 2022, 01:02:53 PM
exactly the club championship should be promoted more and you could say it is  far more competitive    than intercounty
Yeah, the Dublin county final was a ringing endorsement for top class club football alright.
People like us will watch club games if they're on, we're in the minority. It's difficult to generate an interest for casual supporters in a club game where they've no affinity with the club or county.
Games played on shitty pitches, 15 men behind the ball, probably played in a giant stadium that's about 20% full at most. It's just not appealing to most people, and in my opinion, never will be.

In August?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on July 21, 2022, 04:40:03 PM
The main arguments against the split season seem to be about armchair fans being unhappy and a few in the national media (not the local lads you may notice) giving out about promotion.
A lot of these lads are on the Sunday Game who would only ever give the likes of Wicklow footballers or the counties below Liam McCarthy a 2 minute reel anyway.

You can promote all you want but a crappy first round of the Leinster isn't going to get a big crowd anyway. Likewise I am not going to see another club play, bar the county finals.

Players dropping off and just being sick of training can be addressed now. The players all seem to enjoy it and lads can plan their lives a bit more.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on July 22, 2022, 02:21:14 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 21, 2022, 07:46:27 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 21, 2022, 02:16:50 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 20, 2022, 01:02:53 PM
exactly the club championship should be promoted more and you could say it is  far more competitive    than intercounty
Yeah, the Dublin county final was a ringing endorsement for top class club football alright.
People like us will watch club games if they're on, we're in the minority. It's difficult to generate an interest for casual supporters in a club game where they've no affinity with the club or county.
Games played on shitty pitches, 15 men behind the ball, probably played in a giant stadium that's about 20% full at most. It's just not appealing to most people, and in my opinion, never will be.

* to most people *

Try yourself.
I certainly don't include myself there, I've spent many's the winter Sunday googling abbreviated gaeilge names trying to figure out what county hurling semi-final I'm watching! I've been involved in club football all my life to some extent, from playing, spectating, attempting to coach and administrating. And one thing that has taught me is that the appeal of the club is based on the community and belonging and all that stuff that the AIB ads say it is. Those feelings don't translate well to a mass audience, and the spectacle that quite a bit of club football now presents doesn't add to that appeal (Leitrim county final getting an honourable exemption there).
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on July 22, 2022, 08:48:03 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 21, 2022, 04:40:03 PM
The main arguments against the split season seem to be about armchair fans being unhappy and a few in the national media (not the local lads you may notice) giving out about promotion.
A lot of these lads are on the Sunday Game who would only ever give the likes of Wicklow footballers or the counties below Liam McCarthy a 2 minute reel anyway.

You can promote all you want but a crappy first round of the Leinster isn't going to get a big crowd anyway. Likewise I am not going to see another club play, bar the county finals.

Players dropping off and just being sick of training can be addressed now. The players all seem to enjoy it and lads can plan their lives a bit more.

+1

The GAA exists to promote the interests of Irish people and the Irish diaspora

Top of that list for the GAA should be it's players, active members and volunteers

As far as I can see, among that group, there would be a mood of cautious welcoming of the new structures

The armchair warriors whose only experience of the GAA comes from the TV should be given ZERO consideration
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: armaghniac on July 22, 2022, 09:33:59 AM
Yes, the GAA should act in the interests of its current members. But it also needs to make some appeal to people not currently members in order to get more and attract new people.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on July 22, 2022, 10:01:48 AM
But the way people actually get into the GAA is mostly down to the local club putting in the work, not from seeing it on TV. Lads at local level going to encourage kids at school and that brings in the parents too.

The Players should be listened to as they are the ones flat out training. Now they have game after game like most sports and they seem to enjoy it.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: naka on July 22, 2022, 10:11:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!
league  fixtures will be over by then and championship run off to be finsihed at end september?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 22, 2022, 10:11:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!

No league games either to play? Strange

Edit: rossfan talking shit
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:14:03 AM
Quote from: naka on July 22, 2022, 10:11:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!
league  fixtures will be over by then and championship run off to be finsihed at end september?
"Run off"  as in got out of the way?
Why not just have a weekend blitz!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: naka on July 22, 2022, 10:46:02 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:14:03 AM
Quote from: naka on July 22, 2022, 10:11:24 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!
league  fixtures will be over by then and championship run off to be finsihed at end september?
"Run off"  as in got out of the way?
Why not just have a weekend blitz!
run off as in a proper structure to allow guys to go on holidays and have everyone back
it was agreed by clubs and county board and for once allows players to know when the championship dates .
its a positive for once .
armagh have actually been progressive in trying to get leagues set up with teams of similiar standard which is a success
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 11:11:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 22, 2022, 10:11:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!

No league games either to play? Strange

Edit: rossfan talking shit
Just stating facts.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 22, 2022, 03:32:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 11:11:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 22, 2022, 10:11:43 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!

No league games either to play? Strange

Edit: rossfan talking shit
Just stating facts.

What's the point of your facts though? Do you think they weren't playing football till then?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 03:55:26 PM
Not "my" fact, just a fact.
Sad to see them wasting July and August on oul Leagues if that's what they're at.
Anyway if that's what they want.....
We've finished Leagues thanks to the split season. Adult Championships start we 6/7 August.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 22, 2022, 04:28:49 PM
i think  all ireland finals should be played on saturdays
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 22, 2022, 04:32:39 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 22, 2022, 04:28:49 PM
i think  all ireland finals should be played on saturdays

Less people work Sundays I'd assume you'd have more people able to watch it, could be wrong though
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 23, 2022, 05:35:11 PM
https://www.rte.ie/gaeilge/2022/0720/1311267-ce-a-dheanfaidh-an-beart-de-domhnaigh/
Is deacair a chreidiúint go bhfuil cluiche ceannais peile na hÉireann buailte linn agus seachtain fágtha i mí Iúil. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 24, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!

Mayo's not starting till first weekend in September.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on July 24, 2022, 08:41:05 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 22, 2022, 10:01:48 AM
But the way people actually get into the GAA is mostly down to the local club putting in the work, not from seeing it on TV. Lads at local level going to encourage kids at school and that brings in the parents too.

The Players should be listened to as they are the ones flat out training. Now they have game after game like most sports and they seem to enjoy it.
There's definitely a huge difference between urban and rural clubs. Rural clubs, the gaa tends to be the community and the split season will be work well for them, there'll be no drop off in interest, local kids will be engaged with what's happening, championship runs etc.

In my experience that's not the case with urban clubs. For 90% of kids and parents there, the gaa (barring their own team or matches) is now finished until next April/may. There's little to no awareness of what's going on at senior club level and for kids it's back to throwing themselves into the premier league, the rugby or whatever everyone is talking about and they can see on TV or YouTube.
Given most of the population are now urban, we're just making ourselves niche.
There is no easy fix, but this condensed championship is not a good solution in terms of games promotion, and it remains if it'll really improve the lot of the club player.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on July 24, 2022, 09:26:03 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 24, 2022, 08:41:05 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 22, 2022, 10:01:48 AM
But the way people actually get into the GAA is mostly down to the local club putting in the work, not from seeing it on TV. Lads at local level going to encourage kids at school and that brings in the parents too.

The Players should be listened to as they are the ones flat out training. Now they have game after game like most sports and they seem to enjoy it.
There's definitely a huge difference between urban and rural clubs. Rural clubs, the gaa tends to be the community and the split season will be work well for them, there'll be no drop off in interest, local kids will be engaged with what's happening, championship runs etc.

In my experience that's not the case with urban clubs. For 90% of kids and parents there, the gaa (barring their own team or matches) is now finished until next April/may. There's little to no awareness of what's going on at senior club level and for kids it's back to throwing themselves into the premier league, the rugby or whatever everyone is talking about and they can see on TV or YouTube.
Given most of the population are now urban, we're just making ourselves niche.
There is no easy fix, but this condensed championship is not a good solution in terms of games promotion, and it remains if it'll really improve the lot of the club player.

Ask any club player. If you actually know any. It has improved immensely.
I'm from an urban club. Would love to know where your 90% figure comes from. I guess you made it up? Not my experience.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 24, 2022, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 24, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!

Mayo's not starting till first weekend in September.
Is it true that ye're adult Club Leagues only started in June???
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 24, 2022, 05:18:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 24, 2022, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 24, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!

Mayo's not starting till first weekend in September.
Is it true that ye're adult Club Leagues only started in June???

Yes.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on July 24, 2022, 05:35:11 PM
Quote from: shark on July 24, 2022, 09:26:03 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 24, 2022, 08:41:05 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 22, 2022, 10:01:48 AM
But the way people actually get into the GAA is mostly down to the local club putting in the work, not from seeing it on TV. Lads at local level going to encourage kids at school and that brings in the parents too.

The Players should be listened to as they are the ones flat out training. Now they have game after game like most sports and they seem to enjoy it.
There's definitely a huge difference between urban and rural clubs. Rural clubs, the gaa tends to be the community and the split season will be work well for them, there'll be no drop off in interest, local kids will be engaged with what's happening, championship runs etc.

In my experience that's not the case with urban clubs. For 90% of kids and parents there, the gaa (barring their own team or matches) is now finished until next April/may. There's little to no awareness of what's going on at senior club level and for kids it's back to throwing themselves into the premier league, the rugby or whatever everyone is talking about and they can see on TV or YouTube.
Given most of the population are now urban, we're just making ourselves niche.
There is no easy fix, but this condensed championship is not a good solution in terms of games promotion, and it remains if it'll really improve the lot of the club player.

Ask any club player. If you actually know any. It has improved immensely.
I'm from an urban club. Would love to know where your 90% figure comes from. I guess you made it up? Not my experience.
Of course I made the 90% figure up, it's hardly something I'm going to gather evidence on. But here's some hard facts. My adopted urban club has approx 1700 paying members, of that less than 100 are adult non-playing members and at our AGM, we typically have less than 50 attendees. My understanding is that numbers like that would not be unusual for Dublin mid size clubs.
I'll leave it there, sure I'll pick it back up when I next sign in next April.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on July 24, 2022, 05:39:47 PM
Quote from: onefineday on July 24, 2022, 05:35:11 PM
Quote from: shark on July 24, 2022, 09:26:03 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 24, 2022, 08:41:05 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 22, 2022, 10:01:48 AM
But the way people actually get into the GAA is mostly down to the local club putting in the work, not from seeing it on TV. Lads at local level going to encourage kids at school and that brings in the parents too.

The Players should be listened to as they are the ones flat out training. Now they have game after game like most sports and they seem to enjoy it.
There's definitely a huge difference between urban and rural clubs. Rural clubs, the gaa tends to be the community and the split season will be work well for them, there'll be no drop off in interest, local kids will be engaged with what's happening, championship runs etc.

In my experience that's not the case with urban clubs. For 90% of kids and parents there, the gaa (barring their own team or matches) is now finished until next April/may. There's little to no awareness of what's going on at senior club level and for kids it's back to throwing themselves into the premier league, the rugby or whatever everyone is talking about and they can see on TV or YouTube.
Given most of the population are now urban, we're just making ourselves niche.
There is no easy fix, but this condensed championship is not a good solution in terms of games promotion, and it remains if it'll really improve the lot of the club player.

Ask any club player. If you actually know any. It has improved immensely.
I'm from an urban club. Would love to know where your 90% figure comes from. I guess you made it up? Not my experience.
Of course I made the 90% figure up, it's hardly something I'm going to gather evidence on. But here's some hard facts. My adopted urban club has approx 1700 paying members, of that less than 100 are adult non-playing members and at our AGM, we typically have less than 50 attendees. My understanding is that numbers like that would not be unusual for Dublin mid size clubs.
I'll leave it there, sure I'll pick it back up when I next sign in next April.

So as well as not bothering with club football, you wouldnt bother with National League either?

At this point I don't actually believe you're interested in Gaelic Games. Maybe it's days out at Croke you enjoy. The actual entertainment on show doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on July 24, 2022, 05:59:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on July 24, 2022, 05:39:47 PM


Ask any club player. If you actually know any. It has improved immensely.
I'm from an urban club. Would love to know where your 90% figure comes from. I guess you made it up? Not my experience.
Of course I made the 90% figure up, it's hardly something I'm going to gather evidence on. But here's some hard facts. My adopted urban club has approx 1700 paying members, of that less than 100 are adult non-playing members and at our AGM, we typically have less than 50 attendees. My understanding is that numbers like that would not be unusual for Dublin mid size clubs.
I'll leave it there, sure I'll pick it back up when I next sign in next April.
[/quote]

So as well as not bothering with club football, you wouldnt bother with National League either?

At this point I don't actually believe you're interested in Gaelic Games. Maybe it's days out at Croke you enjoy. The actual entertainment on show doesn't matter.
[/quote]
Have you seen the weather in Ireland in February??  Who in their right mind would try and play or even worse, spectate at an event there??
I'll be honest Wobbler, I love the NFL, can't wait for Week 1 in September - might finally be the year that the Bills deliver for the hard pressed people of Buffalo - the Mayo of the NFL if you will!!

I suppose the only thing mitigating against my being a total event junkie is that I sometimes notice that the atmosphere has died a death, that's when I noticed these long passages of 'keep ball' or lateral play as they've become known - they bore me a bit, is there nothing we can do to get rid of them?  There was quite a bit of it today too.  Particularly noteworthy was a pass by Paudie Clifford from inside the Galway 14 back out to midfield, not that it was a terrible ball, but just that it highlights a particular problem brought about by teams employing all 15 players inside their own 45.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on July 25, 2022, 09:08:14 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 24, 2022, 05:35:11 PM
Quote from: shark on July 24, 2022, 09:26:03 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 24, 2022, 08:41:05 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 22, 2022, 10:01:48 AM
But the way people actually get into the GAA is mostly down to the local club putting in the work, not from seeing it on TV. Lads at local level going to encourage kids at school and that brings in the parents too.

The Players should be listened to as they are the ones flat out training. Now they have game after game like most sports and they seem to enjoy it.
There's definitely a huge difference between urban and rural clubs. Rural clubs, the gaa tends to be the community and the split season will be work well for them, there'll be no drop off in interest, local kids will be engaged with what's happening, championship runs etc.

In my experience that's not the case with urban clubs. For 90% of kids and parents there, the gaa (barring their own team or matches) is now finished until next April/may. There's little to no awareness of what's going on at senior club level and for kids it's back to throwing themselves into the premier league, the rugby or whatever everyone is talking about and they can see on TV or YouTube.
Given most of the population are now urban, we're just making ourselves niche.
There is no easy fix, but this condensed championship is not a good solution in terms of games promotion, and it remains if it'll really improve the lot of the club player.

Ask any club player. If you actually know any. It has improved immensely.
I'm from an urban club. Would love to know where your 90% figure comes from. I guess you made it up? Not my experience.
Of course I made the 90% figure up, it's hardly something I'm going to gather evidence on. But here's some hard facts. My adopted urban club has approx 1700 paying members, of that less than 100 are adult non-playing members and at our AGM, we typically have less than 50 attendees. My understanding is that numbers like that would not be unusual for Dublin mid size clubs.
I'll leave it there, sure I'll pick it back up when I next sign in next April.

I don't see how altering the season helps this?

From your 'hard facts' 1600 out of 1700 of your paying members are players

They are the ones who will gain the most from these structures

But you could play an All Ireland Final twice a month and it wouldn't make people come to the AGM
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 25, 2022, 09:15:20 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 24, 2022, 05:18:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 24, 2022, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 24, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!

Mayo's not starting till first weekend in September.
Is it true that ye're adult Club Leagues only started in June???

Yes.

So most of ye're Club only players have a 4 month playing season?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on July 25, 2022, 09:27:41 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 25, 2022, 09:15:20 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 24, 2022, 05:18:46 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 24, 2022, 11:06:40 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on July 24, 2022, 07:58:46 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 22, 2022, 10:10:00 AM
Armagh's County team's Championship ended 25th June.
Their Club Championships not starting till end of August!!!

Mayo's not starting till first weekend in September.
Is it true that ye're adult Club Leagues only started in June???

Yes.

So most of ye're Club only players have a 4 month playing season?

Other divisional competitions and the Michael Walsh (third tier competition) were played in the Spring. August will be the league playoffs.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: SCFC on July 26, 2022, 03:19:15 PM
I think it's been a great success. Looking forward to a decent club championship played in hopefully mostly good weather.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 26, 2022, 04:39:17 PM
When do Rte/tg4 start showing club championship games
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 26, 2022, 04:49:10 PM
i like seeing game under the lights on a cold  feburary saturday night  gaa is not just a summer sport.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on July 26, 2022, 05:04:50 PM
   
FORMER MAYO FOOTBALLER Alan Dillon has called on the GAA to push the inter-county season back out to August or September.


“I’m all in favour of GAA clubs and club players having certainty with dates and when they are playing. This is absolutely needed as club players, coaches, volunteers and supporters are the lifeblood of the GAA. Without them, inter-county teams will not achieve any success,” he said. 

“However, it is too early in the year for the senior football and hurling championships to be finished.”

This year’s deciders took place on 17 July (hurling) and 24 July (football). As a result, there has been some criticism of the marquee games in the GAA calendar being brought forward to such early dates.

“We will not have any more action until next January at the earliest – more than five months away. In the meantime, other sports get the attention and coverage the GAA would normally have achieved throughout August and September,” deputy Dillon said.

“Consequently, GAA overall loses out. With all due respect to the club championships, and I value my own as much as anyone else, they will not gain the same attention as the intercounty championships.

“The race for Sam Maguire and Liam McCarthy this year were brilliant, along with the inaugural Tailteann Cup. They kept us enthralled and excited for the last few months. So why lock away your best shows for almost half a year? It simply doesn’t make sense.

“Anyone involved in marketing will say the same. Come the start of 2023, the demand for intercounty games will be immense. It is too long a break from now until then. I would urge GAA officials, club and county board delegates to rethink the issue for future years.

“I know this year’s Congress, held in Mayo in February, agreed a new senior football competition starting next year.

“Great, let’s trial that and see how it goes but we have to re-think the finishing dates of our showpiece competitions. Finishing in July is far too early.”
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: yellowcard on July 26, 2022, 05:17:27 PM
I read that interview as GAA media seeking out ex player who supports their own stance. Expect more of this sort of stuff in the weeks ahead as it gives the media something to fill column inches.

Canvas the grass roots GAA membership involved at club level on this however and I would guess that the feeling is the opposite. The armchair sports viewer may have a different opinion.

The county part of the season has been a success imo but wait until the full season runs its course before judging it fully.   
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: J70 on July 26, 2022, 05:25:43 PM
"We will not have any more action until next January at the earliest – more than five months away. In the meantime, other sports get the attention and coverage the GAA would normally have achieved throughout August and September," deputy Dillon said.

So we go back to f**king the club players over so the senior intercounty game gets another 6 weeks of coverage?

I don't get this.

I'm tuning into the Premier League in a couple of weeks whether or not the senior championship is still on. They're not mutually exclusive interests, with only one or the other able to attract my attention.

The NFL is the biggest sport in the US and has a less than five month season, start to finish, and several other very high profile US sports to compete against.

The GAA has made the move to a compressed season. Stick with it. Its better for everyone.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: marty34 on July 26, 2022, 05:26:01 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2022, 05:17:27 PM
I read that interview as GAA media seeking out ex player who supports their own stance. Expect more of this sort of stuff in the weeks ahead as it gives the media something to fill column inches.

Canvas the grass roots GAA membership involved at club level on this however and I would guess that the feeling is the opposite. The armchair sports viewer may have a different opinion.

The county part of the season has been a success imo but wait until the full season runs its course before judging it fully.

I agree Yellowcard.

2% tail swinging 98% of the dog.

Wait to December to comment.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on July 26, 2022, 05:36:18 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 26, 2022, 05:04:50 PM
   
FORMER MAYO FOOTBALLER Alan Dillon has called on the GAA to push the inter-county season back out to August or September.


"I'm all in favour of GAA clubs and club players having certainty with dates and when they are playing. This is absolutely needed as club players, coaches, volunteers and supporters are the lifeblood of the GAA. Without them, inter-county teams will not achieve any success," he said. 

"However, it is too early in the year for the senior football and hurling championships to be finished."

This year's deciders took place on 17 July (hurling) and 24 July (football). As a result, there has been some criticism of the marquee games in the GAA calendar being brought forward to such early dates.

"We will not have any more action until next January at the earliest – more than five months away. In the meantime, other sports get the attention and coverage the GAA would normally have achieved throughout August and September," deputy Dillon said.

"Consequently, GAA overall loses out. With all due respect to the club championships, and I value my own as much as anyone else, they will not gain the same attention as the intercounty championships.

"The race for Sam Maguire and Liam McCarthy this year were brilliant, along with the inaugural Tailteann Cup. They kept us enthralled and excited for the last few months. So why lock away your best shows for almost half a year? It simply doesn't make sense.

"Anyone involved in marketing will say the same. Come the start of 2023, the demand for intercounty games will be immense. It is too long a break from now until then. I would urge GAA officials, club and county board delegates to rethink the issue for future years.

"I know this year's Congress, held in Mayo in February, agreed a new senior football competition starting next year.

"Great, let's trial that and see how it goes but we have to re-think the finishing dates of our showpiece competitions. Finishing in July is far too early."

He says the bit in bold...

Then proceeds to shite all over it with a few if's, buts and maybes, backed up by nothing but his own opinion

Now he's as entitled to his opinion as the next man

But we are also entitled to think it's rubbish
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Gael80 on July 26, 2022, 05:47:31 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on July 26, 2022, 05:17:27 PM
I read that interview as GAA media seeking out ex player who supports their own stance. Expect more of this sort of stuff in the weeks ahead as it gives the media something to fill column inches.

Canvas the grass roots GAA membership involved at club level on this however and I would guess that the feeling is the opposite. The armchair sports viewer may have a different opinion.

The county part of the season has been a success imo but wait until the full season runs its course before judging it fully.

I agree, but there is still room to slightly tweak the inter county season schedule by three weeks or start the national leagues earlier, so they have time for the perfect system.

Allow two weeks between hurling and football finals, and one replay from the AL QF stage. When it's all reviewed I think this is what'll happen.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2022, 05:49:41 PM
Inter county players are back with their clubs, finishing off league games and preparing for championship with their life long friends and family, what's not to like about that?

Season done county boards aren't spending fortunes on SC mind gurus dietitian's travel expenses coach hire and every other expense under the sun, another good reason

Club games getting National attention, non county players getting to play on tv, being talked about and maybe putting themselves in the shop window for their county selection, can complain about that

Club attendances possibly increasing..

Lads able to get a week's holiday away to shake off the season rather than waiting till October

There are many more benefits, the only one that seems to be bad is for the broadcasters
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Gael80 on July 26, 2022, 05:55:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2022, 05:49:41 PM
Inter county players are back with their clubs, finishing off league games and preparing for championship with their life long friends and family, what's not to like about that?

Season done county boards aren't spending fortunes on SC mind gurus dietitian's travel expenses coach hire and every other expense under the sun, another good reason

Club games getting National attention, non county players getting to play on tv, being talked about and maybe putting themselves in the shop window for their county selection, can complain about that

Club attendances possibly increasing..

Lads able to get a week's holiday away to shake off the season rather than waiting till October

There are many more benefits, the only one that seems to be bad is for the broadcasters

Some good points, but the reality is a very large percentage of inter county players are not back with their clubs, preparing for club championships or finishing off league programmes.

Great opportunity for them, and US GAA has never had it so good, two benefits of the system, but on the back of how many went to the US, there is some room for the GAA to slightly tweak the intercounty schedule.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on July 26, 2022, 06:11:05 PM
Quote from: Gael80 on July 26, 2022, 05:55:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2022, 05:49:41 PM
Inter county players are back with their clubs, finishing off league games and preparing for championship with their life long friends and family, what's not to like about that?

Season done county boards aren't spending fortunes on SC mind gurus dietitian's travel expenses coach hire and every other expense under the sun, another good reason

Club games getting National attention, non county players getting to play on tv, being talked about and maybe putting themselves in the shop window for their county selection, can complain about that

Club attendances possibly increasing..

Lads able to get a week's holiday away to shake off the season rather than waiting till October

There are many more benefits, the only one that seems to be bad is for the broadcasters

Some good points, but the reality is a very large percentage of inter county players are not back with their clubs, preparing for club championships or finishing off league programmes.

Great opportunity for them, and US GAA has never had it so good, two benefits of the system, but on the back of how many went to the US, there is some room for the GAA to slightly tweak the intercounty schedule.

Define "very large percentage"?

There are roughly 60 intercounty players from my county. I'm not aware of any of them having gone to the US. They all seemed to be playing club championship the past two weekend.

Alan Dillon is a politician optimising for reelection. That's all politicians do. He has zero credibility when it comes to GAA matters for as long as he is a politican.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on July 26, 2022, 06:28:09 PM
Why doesn't Alan Dillon chat Lee Keegan or any of the lads he used to play with.
Like lads will never be happy but armchair fans should never dictate how the thing is run.

I would like two weeks between the Finals mind.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 26, 2022, 06:38:39 PM
Milltown's point about possible increase in attendances at  Club games is a good one.
Back in the day you had 2 big TV games in August/September and then Club Championship games a 6 or so on a Sunday evening.
People were "Gahd" out or had exhausted spouses patience and wouldn't be going off to a game.
Dairy farmers would be busy in the evening too.
Now we'll have games hopefully on Sunday afternoons and no TV games in the way so should see better turn outs.
As few  Counties are starting Championships before 1st weekend in  August there's a bit of scope for extending County scene to weekend 30 of the year in 23.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 27, 2022, 10:50:08 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/what-a-waste-after-the-feast-comes-famine-for-inter-county-followers-41870643.html

Breheny will have to go back to making out lists ::)

Meanwhile a real GAA man speaks

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40927328.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: twohands!!! on July 27, 2022, 07:17:20 PM
Quote from: Gael80 on July 26, 2022, 05:55:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 26, 2022, 05:49:41 PM
Inter county players are back with their clubs, finishing off league games and preparing for championship with their life long friends and family, what's not to like about that?

Season done county boards aren't spending fortunes on SC mind gurus dietitian's travel expenses coach hire and every other expense under the sun, another good reason

Club games getting National attention, non county players getting to play on tv, being talked about and maybe putting themselves in the shop window for their county selection, can complain about that

Club attendances possibly increasing..

Lads able to get a week's holiday away to shake off the season rather than waiting till October

There are many more benefits, the only one that seems to be bad is for the broadcasters

Some good points, but the reality is a very large percentage of inter county players are not back with their clubs, preparing for club championships or finishing off league programmes.

Great opportunity for them, and US GAA has never had it so good, two benefits of the system, but on the back of how many went to the US, there is some room for the GAA to slightly tweak the intercounty schedule.

I was talking to someone from Kerry in Croke Park on Sunday and they were saying that the county leagues in Kerry are already finished - the final between Crokes and Dingle was on the previous Friday night. Club championship is starting in Kerry this weekend. If the All-Ireland winners can do that, other counties have no excuse at all.

Also they were saying that the change in the calendar gives the winning All-Ireland teams a lot longer to enjoy their win.

One thing with the previous September timetable is that it didn't give a lot of time for teams to enjoy the win - everything I've heard from players who won an All-Ireland was that the celebrations always felt rushed and fairly hectic because the league was only a few months away and intercounty training almost started up straight away, never mind club action. You had teams arriving off the plane from team holidays going straight back into action in pre-season games. The new split season should allow for a more relaxed celebration for the winners.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 12:15:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 27, 2022, 10:50:08 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/what-a-waste-after-the-feast-comes-famine-for-inter-county-followers-41870643.html

Breheny will have to go back to making out lists ::)

Meanwhile a real GAA man speaks

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40927328.html

Its a feast of championship this weekend with Junior on Friday, Intermediate Sat and on Sunday Senior championship ... any amount of games to go to
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on July 28, 2022, 04:49:07 PM
In Kildare, my club at least, the county boys were back on Tuesday after the Mayo game. They helped with promotion and already have a few weeks of training with the lads for championship.

In the past the usual craic was they would not darken the door of the club, then get one training session in before a prelim championship game in April. Maybe another league match and off they went till late August when they would drop in again.

How can anyone say it's not better. Lads (a tiny %) going to the USA is doomsday stuff seemingly. Lads not training all year round is a bad thing. Massive costs at inter-county being stopped...in previous years all the blowhards giving out now were up in arms over these things.

The lads in national media giving out don't want to do any work and just shite on. They might need some research for covering club games so they don't fancy it.

Like there are too many concerned with other sports and one of the reasons so many lads drop from club is being flogged. We are addressing that.



Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on July 28, 2022, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 28, 2022, 04:49:07 PM
In Kildare, my club at least, the county boys were back on Tuesday after the Mayo game. They helped with promotion and already have a few weeks of training with the lads for championship.

In the past the usual craic was they would not darken the door of the club, then get one training session in before a prelim championship game in April. Maybe another league match and off they went till late August when they would drop in again.

How can anyone say it's not better. Lads (a tiny %) going to the USA is doomsday stuff seemingly. Lads not training all year round is a bad thing. Massive costs at inter-county being stopped...in previous years all the blowhards giving out now were up in arms over these things.

The lads in national media giving out don't want to do any work and just shite on. They might need some research for covering club games so they don't fancy it.

Like there are too many concerned with other sports and one of the reasons so many lads drop from club is being flogged. We are addressing that.

But but but Marketing. Or something.

You're 100% spot on. Playing 2 rounds of club championship in April and then pausing for 3 or 4 months was utterly disrespectful to players. Hopefully we will never see it again.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on July 28, 2022, 05:18:24 PM
Quote from: shark on July 28, 2022, 05:08:05 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 28, 2022, 04:49:07 PM
In Kildare, my club at least, the county boys were back on Tuesday after the Mayo game. They helped with promotion and already have a few weeks of training with the lads for championship.

In the past the usual craic was they would not darken the door of the club, then get one training session in before a prelim championship game in April. Maybe another league match and off they went till late August when they would drop in again.

How can anyone say it's not better. Lads (a tiny %) going to the USA is doomsday stuff seemingly. Lads not training all year round is a bad thing. Massive costs at inter-county being stopped...in previous years all the blowhards giving out now were up in arms over these things.

The lads in national media giving out don't want to do any work and just shite on. They might need some research for covering club games so they don't fancy it.

Like there are too many concerned with other sports and one of the reasons so many lads drop from club is being flogged. We are addressing that.

But but but Marketing. Or something.

You're 100% spot on. Playing 2 rounds of club championship in April and then pausing for 3 or 4 months was utterly disrespectful to players. Hopefully we will never see it again.

+1

Also utterly unsurprising that the balloon mentioning marketing and money as the reason to shaft the masses of club players was a FG TD
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on July 29, 2022, 11:24:32 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 26, 2022, 04:49:10 PM
i like seeing game under the lights on a cold  feburary saturday night  gaa is not just a summer sport.

The national league it is then.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: twohands!!! on July 29, 2022, 03:39:21 PM
The group stages in the Sam Maguire and the Tailteann Cup next year, will mean that a lot more counties will be playing a bit longer compared to this year and will reduce the scope for intercounty players to head to the US.

Also at the other end of the calendar the plan is that the provincials club games will be moved earlier in the calendar forcing county boards to start county championships earlier if they are going to be finished in time for the provincials.

Given all this I would expect the number of intercounty players going to the US to drop a fair bit compared to this year.

Also I wouldn't be a bit surprised if a lot of the clubs in the US are aware of this and this summer was a bit of a last blowout in terms of recruiting intercounty players.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cunny Funt on July 29, 2022, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 29, 2022, 03:39:21 PM
The group stages in the Sam Maguire and the Tailteann Cup next year, will mean that a lot more counties will be playing a bit longer compared to this year and will reduce the scope for intercounty players to head to the US.

Also at the other end of the calendar the plan is that the provincials club games will be moved earlier in the calendar forcing county boards to start county championships earlier if they are going to be finished in time for the provincials.

Given all this I would expect the number of intercounty players going to the US to drop a fair bit compared to this year.

Also I wouldn't be a bit surprised if a lot of the clubs in the US are aware of this and this summer was a bit of a last blowout in terms of recruiting intercounty players.

One way to do that is to schedule the All-Ireland club semi finals and finals for December instead of January
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 29, 2022, 05:06:47 PM
And have all Co Finals decided by 1st weekend October.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: twohands!!! on July 29, 2022, 07:59:30 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 29, 2022, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on July 29, 2022, 03:39:21 PM
The group stages in the Sam Maguire and the Tailteann Cup next year, will mean that a lot more counties will be playing a bit longer compared to this year and will reduce the scope for intercounty players to head to the US.

Also at the other end of the calendar the plan is that the provincials club games will be moved earlier in the calendar forcing county boards to start county championships earlier if they are going to be finished in time for the provincials.

Given all this I would expect the number of intercounty players going to the US to drop a fair bit compared to this year.

Also I wouldn't be a bit surprised if a lot of the clubs in the US are aware of this and this summer was a bit of a last blowout in terms of recruiting intercounty players.

One way to do that is to schedule the All-Ireland club semi finals and finals for December instead of January

That's the plan.

It's in the Calendar Task Force report.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 29, 2022, 09:00:23 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 29, 2022, 05:06:47 PM
And have all Co Finals decided by 1st weekend October.
In time for the Horse Fair
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 30, 2022, 04:23:34 AM
could they put the club finals on a st stephens day and make it an annual thing like the premier league does games on st stephens day or the saturday before christmas
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 30, 2022, 12:53:41 PM
Presumably the shorter championship was designed to reduce the strain on players and keep county costs down but ending it in July feels like choc ices have been banned for the next 2 months
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: marty34 on July 30, 2022, 01:31:54 PM
Need to give it a couple of years before a judgement can be made.

Club championship hasn't even started in a lot of counties yet.

Let the players, county and club, be the judge of how good/bad/indifferent it is...in a few years.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 30, 2022, 01:37:26 PM
It was to ensure that adult (and indeed Minor) club championships would have a slot of their own with no County games taking place at the same time.
Also to enable Counties which reached AI Finals to have the same time for Club Championships as the rest.
And enable most Club Championship games to be on good pitches.
Better all round for players, managers, County Boards etc.
Not so good maybe for the GAA journalists.
The armchair fan can still watch the big games in June and July. The casual County follower can still go to his 2 or 3 games a year.
And Seaf can still have a choc ice while watching salthill v Tuam Stars or whoever in August.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on July 30, 2022, 04:05:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 30, 2022, 01:37:26 PM
It was to ensure that adult (and indeed Minor) club championships would have a slot of their own with no County games taking place at the same time.
Also to enable Counties which reached AI Finals to have the same time for Club Championships as the rest.
And enable most Club Championship games to be on good pitches.
Better all round for players, managers, County Boards etc.
Not so good maybe for the GAA journalists.
The armchair fan can still watch the big games in June and July. The casual County follower can still go to his 2 or 3 games a year.
And Seaf can still have a choc ice while watching salthill v Tuam Stars or whoever in August.

Although he'll have to buy a Magnum in Stillorgan if he wants to see Shane Walsh's Club skills.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 30, 2022, 07:32:24 PM
In the month of August, the ratio of Liverpool to all Ireland posts trends to infinity
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 31, 2022, 05:45:25 PM
when are rte going to show club matches
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 31, 2022, 06:37:15 PM
the first Sunday has been difficult with the withdrawal symptoms, caithfidh me a ra.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 31, 2022, 09:51:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2022, 06:37:15 PM
the first Sunday has been difficult with the withdrawal symptoms, caithfidh me a ra.

Amazing games on today and another set of games next week at headquarters
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: mrdeeds on July 31, 2022, 10:03:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 31, 2022, 06:37:15 PM
the first Sunday has been difficult with the withdrawal symptoms, caithfidh me a ra.
At the Cavan league final today. 6 18 to 4 23. There's lots of great football out there and will be for next few months.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Mad Mentor on August 01, 2022, 08:13:13 AM
If the aim of the all Ireland finals and big games in general is to inspire kids (who else are they trying to attract?) to take up GAA, then the earlier dates make much more sense as there is lots of activity in clubs and most juvenile competitions are in full flow. Any kid wanting to start can still get a couple of months with their local club rather than September when a lot of clubs are winding down their season.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 01, 2022, 04:04:40 PM
This year was not indicative because of soccer corruption. The Qatar world Cup didn't happen in June as it normally would, clashing with provincial finals, competing for sports eyes.
We won't know until the next Euros.
The GAA already has 2 non competitive provincial championships in the football. One of these situations was created by the GAA itself.
Time will tell whether the experiment works or not. If we do get a reinstatement of September finals, the championships won't start in May as before. Short championships are probably here to stay.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on August 01, 2022, 04:55:14 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 01, 2022, 04:04:40 PM
This year was not indicative because of soccer corruption. The Qatar world Cup didn't happen in June as it normally would, clashing with provincial finals, competing for sports eyes.
We won't know until the next Euros.
The GAA already has 2 non competitive provincial championships in the football. One of these situations was created by the GAA itself.
Time will tell whether the experiment works or not. If we do get a reinstatement of September finals, the championships won't start in May as before. Short championships are probably here to stay.

2023 will see 19 rounds NFL and championship games played over 26 weeks.

Potential 2023 schedule.

Jan 29th to March 26th for the NFL

Provincial championships played off in 5 weeks e.g April 9th to May 7th

Then onto the group format of the championship e.g May 20th to June 11th

Preliminary quarters, quarter finals, semi finals and AI final from June 18th to July 23rd.


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 01, 2022, 05:43:46 PM
Kieran Cunningham of the Daily Star on the GAA experiment and journalism
@ 14:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfyLRQFz0Bk
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 02, 2022, 04:31:19 PM
But one of his main points is based on the fact that the women want to talk and promote the games.

The split season and an extra week here and there is not going to be mean you have any more access to the lads. Before all this there were pressers at 6am two weeks before big games with the manager, the captain and one injured player...

He can't honestly believe that his plan of lads playing for club and county all year is realistic?? It's idealistic yes, but he is around the block long enough to know it won't happen.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 02, 2022, 06:12:57 PM
He makes a good point about there being no standardisation of county championships across the country. Some counties have made good progress running off their matches while others will only start in September.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 02, 2022, 07:17:45 PM
Connacht Club Championships begin around 13th November.
No incentive there to have your Co Final in September!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on August 02, 2022, 08:12:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2022, 07:17:45 PM
Connacht Club Championships begin around 13th November.
No incentive there to have your Co Final in September!

I'd agree. Holding out for championship so it runs end of August - middle of October is the smart play, and not just to marry the provincial calendar. Adult leagues should be wrapped up in full. Gets everyone back from holidays. Allows juvenile football/hurling to be wrapped up and not taking pitches / spectators / volunteers away. Good excuse to use the floodlit county grounds with stands over and again.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 02, 2022, 08:23:20 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2022, 07:17:45 PM
Connacht Club Championships begin around 13th November.
No incentive there to have your Co Final in September!
Then finish all Ireland later
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 02, 2022, 08:55:13 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 02, 2022, 08:12:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 02, 2022, 07:17:45 PM
Connacht Club Championships begin around 13th November.
No incentive there to have your Co Final in September!

I'd agree. Holding out for championship so it runs end of August - middle of October is the smart play, and not just to marry the provincial calendar. Adult leagues should be wrapped up in full. Gets everyone back from holidays. Allows juvenile football/hurling to be wrapped up and not taking pitches / spectators / volunteers away. Good excuse to use the floodlit county grounds with stands over and again.
IF... one had a County Ground with floodlights........
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 03, 2022, 09:11:23 AM

Listening to OTB now. Man Utd. It's a long way to the League
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7xi4ZCAxTE
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 03, 2022, 12:09:07 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40932014.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 03, 2022, 02:54:12 PM
I see lads going off to the states and that is another nail in the coffin for the Split Season...

Club and county lads can have a summer away if they are students, but it's not like entire panels are away off from their club. The majority of players want this. Lads can plan their lives and if they want to head away for a summer so be it!
It's not a reason to argue against ripping up a new system for the sake of a tiny minority of the minority.

Like very few of the arguements against hold up and the lads who are arguing often don't stand over them enough, or change their tunes or add an aul PS and go off on another tangent.

Like we will never be happy, but the players are the key ones here and they want it - so be it!

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on August 03, 2022, 02:57:11 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on August 03, 2022, 02:54:12 PM
I see lads going off to the states and that is another nail in the coffin for the Split Season...

Club and county lads can have a summer away if they are students, but it's not like entire panels are away off from their club. The majority of players want this. Lads can plan their lives and if they want to head away for a summer so be it!
It's not a reason to argue against ripping up a new system for the sake of a tiny minority of the minority.

Like very few of the arguements against hold up and the lads who are arguing often don't stand over them enough, or change their tunes or add an aul PS and go off on another tangent.

Like we will never be happy, but the players are the key ones here and they want it - so be it!

How so?

Lads have been heading stateside for as long as I can remember, this is not a new thing related to the split season.


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 03, 2022, 03:56:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 03, 2022, 02:57:11 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on August 03, 2022, 02:54:12 PM
I see lads going off to the states and that is another nail in the coffin for the Split Season...

Club and county lads can have a summer away if they are students, but it's not like entire panels are away off from their club. The majority of players want this. Lads can plan their lives and if they want to head away for a summer so be it!
It's not a reason to argue against ripping up a new system for the sake of a tiny minority of the minority.

Like very few of the arguements against hold up and the lads who are arguing often don't stand over them enough, or change their tunes or add an aul PS and go off on another tangent.

Like we will never be happy, but the players are the key ones here and they want it - so be it!

How so?

Lads have been heading stateside for as long as I can remember, this is not a new thing related to the split season.

Boys have been flat out for years going to the States to play, the pandemic curtailed that but I was over in 93 (partying, not playing) and it was full of GAA lads from Ballycastle to Dingle !

Lazy journo's like an angle to suit their own agenda
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on August 03, 2022, 06:27:01 PM
Sorry I am not the one with the nails. But the lads agin tge split season are bringing it up.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on August 03, 2022, 06:39:00 PM
You have to love the ''Die Hard GAA Supporter'' who begrudges the Jamie Clarkes of this world wanting to have a life outside of the parrish and County, just because they are good footballers.

Feck, it's only football. And if nothing else it gives fringe players the chance to show their worth while the cream are away.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 04, 2022, 07:51:58 AM
Holiday
Paid
Adventure
Possibilities
Young

There are so much more benefits to these times playing away, they last till when they get a proper job or meet their wife, after that it's shoulder to the wheel at the club.

But journalists feel that because we finished up 7 weeks earlier the sky will fall in? And better still some believe it
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 04, 2022, 01:25:23 PM
No comment

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=30948.0
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on August 04, 2022, 10:50:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 04, 2022, 01:25:23 PM
No comment

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=30948.0

Lol

See below a small flavour of what the board was discussing in August 2019. 

Again... presented without comment  ::)

Wasps
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=24900.0

Wedding presents
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13428.0

Peppa Pig accused of sexism
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29149.0

Shipyard
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29357.0
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 05, 2022, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 04, 2022, 10:50:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 04, 2022, 01:25:23 PM
No comment

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=30948.0

Lol

See below a small flavour of what the board was discussing in August 2019. 

Again... presented without comment  ::)

Wasps
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=24900.0

Wedding presents
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13428.0

Peppa Pig accused of sexism
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29149.0

Shipyard
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29357.0
that's general discussion
In 2019 the all Irelands were in September
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on August 05, 2022, 09:40:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 05, 2022, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 04, 2022, 10:50:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 04, 2022, 01:25:23 PM
No comment

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=30948.0

Lol

See below a small flavour of what the board was discussing in August 2019. 

Again... presented without comment  ::)

Wasps
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=24900.0

Wedding presents
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13428.0

Peppa Pig accused of sexism
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29149.0

Shipyard
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29357.0
that's general discussion
In 2019 the all Irelands were in September

So is the commonwealth games

The 2019 All Irelands being in September is EXACTLY my point
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 06, 2022, 12:59:11 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 05, 2022, 09:40:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 05, 2022, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 04, 2022, 10:50:57 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 04, 2022, 01:25:23 PM
No comment

http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=30948.0

Lol

See below a small flavour of what the board was discussing in August 2019. 

Again... presented without comment  ::)

Wasps
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=24900.0

Wedding presents
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=13428.0

Peppa Pig accused of sexism
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29149.0

Shipyard
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=29357.0
that's general discussion
In 2019 the all Irelands were in September

So is the commonwealth games

The 2019 All Irelands being in September is EXACTLY my point
Commonwealth games is sport, however.

The board is dead on the 6 of august.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on August 06, 2022, 04:48:55 PM
This Board has been dead or dying for a decade in relation to Gaelic Games.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 06, 2022, 11:43:38 PM
But you're still here
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 07, 2022, 12:16:55 AM
Breheny back to his lists

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/celebrating-50-years-of-all-ireland-winners-introducing-our-new-gaa-series-41893424.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 07, 2022, 09:59:43 AM
The camogie final is on today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGlC54PzqS4
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 07, 2022, 10:03:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 06, 2022, 11:43:38 PM
But you're still here
It always slows down for autumn. Just not in august
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 07, 2022, 03:13:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 07, 2022, 10:03:35 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 06, 2022, 11:43:38 PM
But you're still here
It always slows down for autumn. Just not in august

That's the best idea for returning it back to September  ;D

I wonder which journalist will cite that as a reason
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 07, 2022, 04:24:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 06, 2022, 11:43:38 PM
But you're still here

;D
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 08, 2022, 09:12:41 AM
The Camog's finished off the season and Kilkenny eek out a win against Cork, Antrim score 5 goals against Armagh and Galway get over the line against Cork's second team..

Club championships are full pelt now.... Load to do and see
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 08, 2022, 05:43:14 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2022/0808/1314554-gaas-split-season-continues-to-divide-opinion/


1 for 1 against....
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 08, 2022, 06:08:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 08, 2022, 05:43:14 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2022/0808/1314554-gaas-split-season-continues-to-divide-opinion/


1 for 1 against....

Are they asking club players that aren't inter county?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 08, 2022, 07:54:20 PM
They are going to review it after the all Ireland final next year.
Does it make sense for MR to be drinking cocktails poolside after the all Ireland Hurling Final?
See tomorrow's Irish News for full analysis.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 09:15:56 AM
2 aspects from today's OTB

Ann Downey of KK camogie said players don't get enough time to prepare for the all Ireland Final and that she would prefer September finals
Because the season is shorter the GAA's ad income is going to be lower
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 09:15:56 AM
2 aspects from today's OTB

Ann Downey of KK camogie said players don't get enough time to prepare for the all Ireland Final and that she would prefer September finals
Because the season is shorter the GAA's ad income is going to be lower

So any news from the club players? Or are you just going to quote county players? the 1%
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 09:15:56 AM
2 aspects from today's OTB

Ann Downey of KK camogie said players don't get enough time to prepare for the all Ireland Final and that she would prefer September finals
Because the season is shorter the GAA's ad income is going to be lower

So any news from the club players? Or are you just going to quote county players? the 1%
[/quote
I'm not sure the club players will get to decide. Club schedules are all over the place.
How much advertising do the club games bring in?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: LeoMc on August 09, 2022, 10:30:53 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2022, 10:04:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 09:15:56 AM
2 aspects from today's OTB

Ann Downey of KK camogie said players don't get enough time to prepare for the all Ireland Final and that she would prefer September finals
Because the season is shorter the GAA's ad income is going to be lower

So any news from the club players? Or are you just going to quote county players? the 1%
[/quote
I'm not sure the club players will get to decide. Club schedules are all over the place.
How much advertising do the club games bring in?
Should advertising revenue be driving it?
Should money be the measure?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 09, 2022, 11:22:18 AM
So who gets to decide? the 1% who generate the most money? Bit strange seafoid, I thought you were always against the 1% in life..

I suppose everyone has a price

Explain to me how club schedules are all over the place? We are in the throws of football and hurling championships here in Antrim at all levels, games being streamed across all, gates are up as games are spread over the weekend allowing for folk to watch whatever grade they like..

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 09, 2022, 12:00:27 PM
Decisions made at Congress as usual.
I suspect the 1% are (the football part will be in 2023) are happier to have games coming at them fast rather than 3 weeks training before each game.
No matter what calendar changes might be made there will have to be a block of time allocated for inter Co championships and another exclusive block for Club Championships.
As for Revenue....if even 10 more people attended each club match compared to the mixed bag years ....it will lead to at least €1m extra for County Boards
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on August 09, 2022, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 09:15:56 AM
2 aspects from today's OTB

Ann Downey of KK camogie said players don't get enough time to prepare for the all Ireland Final and that she would prefer September finals
Because the season is shorter the GAA's ad income is going to be lower

So any news from the club players? Or are you just going to quote county players? the 1%
[/quote
I'm not sure the club players will get to decide. Club schedules are all over the place.
How much advertising do the club games bring in?

Define "all over the place". Or alternatively , just give up commentating (relentlessly) on a topic you know little about.
I didn't realise it was an advertising agency we are all members of.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: ONeill on August 09, 2022, 10:46:52 PM
I think GAA journalists are struggling a bit for content at the minute.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 09, 2022, 11:34:48 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 09, 2022, 10:46:52 PM
I think GAA journalists are struggling a bit for content at the minute.

Breheny is doing up lists.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 10, 2022, 07:04:03 AM
Quote from: shark on August 09, 2022, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 09:15:56 AM
2 aspects from today's OTB

Ann Downey of KK camogie said players don't get enough time to prepare for the all Ireland Final and that she would prefer September finals
Because the season is shorter the GAA's ad income is going to be lower

So any news from the club players? Or are you just going to quote county players? the 1%
[/quote
I'm not sure the club players will get to decide. Club schedules are all over the place.
How much advertising do the club games bring in?

Define "all over the place". Or alternatively , just give up commentating (relentlessly) on a topic you know little about.
I didn't realise it was an advertising agency we are all members of.
There is no system. Some counties ran club championships in parallel with the all Ireland. Others did not.

The key feature of this change to the all Ireland was that it was rushed. I am not surprised that the club side is somewhat disorganised . Club was always run independently of county.

Where do you think the money to develop GAA stadiums comes from ? It's not all attendance money.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: marty34 on August 10, 2022, 08:03:17 AM
Kerry hurling final was last Sunday.  It was live on TG4.

Because it was on mid-August and live, it got great exposure for Kerry hurling.

Better that than being on in tandem with 6 other county finals on the same day in mid-September and getting no media coverage.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on August 10, 2022, 08:53:52 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 10, 2022, 07:04:03 AM
Quote from: shark on August 09, 2022, 01:11:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 10:08:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 09, 2022, 09:15:56 AM
2 aspects from today's OTB

Ann Downey of KK camogie said players don't get enough time to prepare for the all Ireland Final and that she would prefer September finals
Because the season is shorter the GAA's ad income is going to be lower

So any news from the club players? Or are you just going to quote county players? the 1%
[/quote
I'm not sure the club players will get to decide. Club schedules are all over the place.
How much advertising do the club games bring in?

Define "all over the place". Or alternatively , just give up commentating (relentlessly) on a topic you know little about.
I didn't realise it was an advertising agency we are all members of.
There is no system. Some counties ran club championships in parallel with the all Ireland. Others did not.

The key feature of this change to the all Ireland was that it was rushed. I am not surprised that the club side is somewhat disorganised . Club was always run independently of county.

Where do you think the money to develop GAA stadiums comes from ? It's not all attendance money.

I really do not see how running independently means disorganised. They are run independently in an organised manner. What would be the advantage of having them start and finish at the exact same time? Have you thought about the implications of that? Counties are not all the same size. Some have duel considerations , others do not.

Well aware that the intercounty game brings in huge money. Spending it on stadiums has been one of the most disorganised use of it. I've been on the inside of an intercounty management setup. I know what wasting money looks like. The association should not be looking there for examples of best practice. Stripping it down is the best thing that can happen.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2022, 08:03:17 AM
Kerry hurling final was last Sunday.  It was live on TG4.

Because it was on mid-August and live, it got great exposure for Kerry hurling.

Better that than being on in tandem with 6 other county finals on the same day in mid-September and getting no media coverage.

Depends when they're expected to be playing in the Munster championship I'd have thought.

Not good to be winning a county final and then sitting doing nothing for 6 weeks or more for the next competitive game irrespective of the coverage you get.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 10, 2022, 10:35:14 AM
With all due respect to the Kerry Champions I don't think the Munster SHC is of much relevance to them.
Also smacks of the Kerry SHC being got out of the way of the football.
Loads of Counties have and had different systems but at least now they have an uninterrupted block of time to play their Championships.
As " National" media journalists have no County games why can't they do at least round ups of Club Championship affairs and maybe pick a County to concentrate on each week.
I know the Examiner is more Regional than National but they do great coverage of Cork and Kerry Championships and do a decent look at the other Munster Counties.
I'd suspect the Irish News would be similar for the 6 Cos.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: imtommygunn on August 10, 2022, 10:38:40 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2022, 08:03:17 AM
Kerry hurling final was last Sunday.  It was live on TG4.

Because it was on mid-August and live, it got great exposure for Kerry hurling.

Better that than being on in tandem with 6 other county finals on the same day in mid-September and getting no media coverage.

Depends when they're expected to be playing in the Munster championship I'd have thought.

Not good to be winning a county final and then sitting doing nothing for 6 weeks or more for the next competitive game irrespective of the coverage you get.

i think Carlow was on too?

Wexford tend to finish theirs up early.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on August 10, 2022, 11:01:38 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2022, 08:03:17 AM
Kerry hurling final was last Sunday.  It was live on TG4.

Because it was on mid-August and live, it got great exposure for Kerry hurling.

Better that than being on in tandem with 6 other county finals on the same day in mid-September and getting no media coverage.

Depends when they're expected to be playing in the Munster championship I'd have thought.

Not good to be winning a county final and then sitting doing nothing for 6 weeks or more for the next competitive game irrespective of the coverage you get.

What would help with this would be provincial councils conducting their draws earlier. Leinster council draws took place quite recently. If they happened in January , for example, then county boards could optimise better.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 10, 2022, 11:13:27 AM
are they basically disrespecting the club game  i have not listen to otb or any other pod in last few weeks have they been talking about clubs  or just inter county.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 11:16:26 AM
Quote from: shark on August 10, 2022, 11:01:38 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2022, 08:03:17 AM
Kerry hurling final was last Sunday.  It was live on TG4.

Because it was on mid-August and live, it got great exposure for Kerry hurling.

Better that than being on in tandem with 6 other county finals on the same day in mid-September and getting no media coverage.

Depends when they're expected to be playing in the Munster championship I'd have thought.

Not good to be winning a county final and then sitting doing nothing for 6 weeks or more for the next competitive game irrespective of the coverage you get.

What would help with this would be provincial councils conducting their draws earlier. Leinster council draws took place quite recently. If they happened in January , for example, then county boards could optimise better.

Surely Croke Park, the provincial councils and the county boards all work off the same master fixtures list and set the dates accordingly..

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2022, 11:57:18 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2022, 08:03:17 AM
Kerry hurling final was last Sunday.  It was live on TG4.

Because it was on mid-August and live, it got great exposure for Kerry hurling.

Better that than being on in tandem with 6 other county finals on the same day in mid-September and getting no media coverage.

Depends when they're expected to be playing in the Munster championship I'd have thought.

Not good to be winning a county final and then sitting doing nothing for 6 weeks or more for the next competitive game irrespective of the coverage you get.

Do they the Kerry champions play at intermediate level when they play Munster club hurling?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 12:31:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2022, 11:57:18 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2022, 08:03:17 AM
Kerry hurling final was last Sunday.  It was live on TG4.

Because it was on mid-August and live, it got great exposure for Kerry hurling.

Better that than being on in tandem with 6 other county finals on the same day in mid-September and getting no media coverage.

Depends when they're expected to be playing in the Munster championship I'd have thought.

Not good to be winning a county final and then sitting doing nothing for 6 weeks or more for the next competitive game irrespective of the coverage you get.

Do they the Kerry champions play at intermediate level when they play Munster club hurling?

They might do, but the Munster intermediate championship doesn't start till November, that's over two months away.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2022, 12:37:55 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 12:31:31 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 10, 2022, 11:57:18 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2022, 08:03:17 AM
Kerry hurling final was last Sunday.  It was live on TG4.

Because it was on mid-August and live, it got great exposure for Kerry hurling.

Better that than being on in tandem with 6 other county finals on the same day in mid-September and getting no media coverage.

Depends when they're expected to be playing in the Munster championship I'd have thought.

Not good to be winning a county final and then sitting doing nothing for 6 weeks or more for the next competitive game irrespective of the coverage you get.

Do they the Kerry champions play at intermediate level when they play Munster club hurling?

They might do, but the Munster intermediate championship doesn't start till November, that's over two months away.

Kerry and Kilkenny are probably similar in that they play off the 'weaker' codes early to free it up for larger participated codes. which you can see the logic in it, teams can reset and there will be plenty teams to get proper challenge games in as other counties will want to have competitive  games also leading up to their own championships.

Any manager of a county championship winning team will have that arranged
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on August 10, 2022, 03:20:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 11:16:26 AM
Quote from: shark on August 10, 2022, 11:01:38 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 10, 2022, 09:48:23 AM
Quote from: marty34 on August 10, 2022, 08:03:17 AM
Kerry hurling final was last Sunday.  It was live on TG4.

Because it was on mid-August and live, it got great exposure for Kerry hurling.

Better that than being on in tandem with 6 other county finals on the same day in mid-September and getting no media coverage.

Depends when they're expected to be playing in the Munster championship I'd have thought.

Not good to be winning a county final and then sitting doing nothing for 6 weeks or more for the next competitive game irrespective of the coverage you get.

What would help with this would be provincial councils conducting their draws earlier. Leinster council draws took place quite recently. If they happened in January , for example, then county boards could optimise better.

Surely Croke Park, the provincial councils and the county boards all work off the same master fixtures list and set the dates accordingly..

They do - but that's not my point. I'll give you an example.
Leinster county, say Louth, will run their draws in the spring time and work out what date they need to play their county senior football final. This will be based off when the 1st round of the Leinster senior club championship starts. They'll probably set it for 2 weeks before.
Many months later, the Leinster council runs their draw and it turns out that the Louth champions are straight in to the 1/4 final, which is two weeks after the first round. They have an additional 2 weeks to play with, but they didn't know this when making their fixtures and now can't avail of this time.
This extra time is even more valuable in counties with duel considerations.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: ONeill on August 10, 2022, 04:30:01 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on August 09, 2022, 11:34:48 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 09, 2022, 10:46:52 PM
I think GAA journalists are struggling a bit for content at the minute.

Breheny is doing up lists.

The Top 10 list of top 10 lists would be a sign to resort back to August inter-county.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Wildweasel74 on August 10, 2022, 10:42:15 PM
Am f**king bored already, club fball lost its appeal to me a fair time bck. Long time to county Fball again, preferred the Sept finals.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on August 10, 2022, 11:14:06 PM
Ah, we are all bored even when the Intercounty game is in full swing.  Dragging it out makes no difference. Galway/Derry/Armagh were a breath of fresh air this year. But the intercounty game is on it's knees.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: ONeill on August 10, 2022, 11:24:01 PM
On its knees in what way?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on August 10, 2022, 11:33:41 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 10, 2022, 11:24:01 PM
On its knees in what way?

Attendances are down. Leinster and Munster Championships are a one horse race. Games are horribly boring (the final being the exception).
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: ONeill on August 10, 2022, 11:42:27 PM
Cut to 1978.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on August 10, 2022, 11:53:00 PM
Quote from: ONeill on August 10, 2022, 11:42:27 PM
Cut to 1978.

Yeah, remember it well. Kerry were the saviours of Gaelic football as Spillane put it!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on August 11, 2022, 12:03:03 AM
Gaelic football at county level is as healthy (and watchable) as it has been in 8-9 years. Nothing do with the calendar and all to do with McGuinness's legacy waning and Dublin no longer being indestructible. The calendar does help in another way. This year we didn't have to wade through three months of shadow boxing and non events for the big clashes to happen. I'm a fan.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: ONeill on August 11, 2022, 12:04:48 AM
Point is, county football has highs and lows. Super-champs or competitive provinces. High attendances and low figures.

Tyrone-Armagh in the McKenna next year might pull in 8000. 3 years ago 2000. 20 years ago 20'000. 40 years ago 1000.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 11, 2022, 07:57:57 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 11, 2022, 12:03:03 AM
Gaelic football at county level is as healthy (and watchable) as it has been in 8-9 years. Nothing do with the calendar and all to do with McGuinness's legacy waning and Dublin no longer being indestructible. The calendar does help in another way. This year we didn't have to wade through three months of shadow boxing and non events for the big clashes to happen. I'm a fan.

i wonder if next seasons format will make a difference too that.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Louther on August 11, 2022, 11:43:35 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 11, 2022, 12:03:03 AM
Gaelic football at county level is as healthy (and watchable) as it has been in 8-9 years. Nothing do with the calendar and all to do with McGuinness's legacy waning and Dublin no longer being indestructible. The calendar does help in another way. This year we didn't have to wade through three months of shadow boxing and non events for the big clashes to happen. I'm a fan.

Yes, the knockout element was very enjoyable this year once the provincials finished up. Next year we could see a return to the super 8 staleness that set in very quick in that format I felt. We may see more games but less on the line and less enjoyment.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 11, 2022, 11:49:11 AM
Quote from: Louther on August 11, 2022, 11:43:35 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 11, 2022, 12:03:03 AM
Gaelic football at county level is as healthy (and watchable) as it has been in 8-9 years. Nothing do with the calendar and all to do with McGuinness's legacy waning and Dublin no longer being indestructible. The calendar does help in another way. This year we didn't have to wade through three months of shadow boxing and non events for the big clashes to happen. I'm a fan.

Yes, the knockout element was very enjoyable this year once the provincials finished up. Next year we could see a return to the super 8 staleness that set in very quick in that format I felt. We may see more games but less on the line and less enjoyment.

So I forgot what is it that the super 8's give us? More opportunities for the big teams to get to the finals? or was it just for generating more income? The latter will go down well during this next cost of living crisis

For me it just made the season last longer to get to the same point, less upsets too, Dublin haven't won in 2 years because that cycle has changed? no need to split them in two either  :D
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 11, 2022, 03:51:02 PM
is next season basically the super 16s
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 13, 2022, 12:04:44 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40939019.html

Meanwhile Indo is going on about last 50 All Irelands and listing the top 50 footballers of 2022 ::)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Feckitt on August 15, 2022, 05:31:04 PM
When will National league fixtures be announced,  I'm trying to book  a break for next spring?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: marty34 on August 15, 2022, 05:59:13 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on August 15, 2022, 05:31:04 PM
When will National league fixtures be announced,  I'm trying to book  a break for next spring?

Good question.

Not sure.  Would it be the New Year?

Great idea though, pick a game and get a place booked asap. Good bit cheaper if you book it earlier.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Barnster on August 16, 2022, 01:23:15 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on August 15, 2022, 05:31:04 PM
When will National league fixtures be announced,  I'm trying to book  a break for next spring?

I think they were released around December last year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 16, 2022, 01:35:06 PM
Quote from: Feckitt on August 15, 2022, 05:31:04 PM
When will National league fixtures be announced,  I'm trying to book  a break for next spring?
Before Covid weren't they usually out round the end of October?
Is similar timescale as this year is used you're looking atfixtures being weekends of
29 Jan, 5 Feb, 12 Feb
26 Feb, 5 Mar,
19 Mar and 26 Mar.
Plus Finals 2 April?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 17, 2022, 12:45:39 PM
should the league final be played outside of croke park and a different ground each year what are the attendances for league finals would they get a full crowd if played in  smaller ground and i think its different from club finals as teams in division 1 usually get to  an opportunity to play in croke park often anyway and the tailteaan cup gives small teams more opportunity now to play there  so its not  the case of but your denying there dream of playing in croke park.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 17, 2022, 01:54:57 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 17, 2022, 12:45:39 PM
should the league final be played outside of croke park and a different ground each year what are the attendances for league finals would they get a full crowd if played in  smaller ground and i think its different from club finals as teams in division 1 usually get to  an opportunity to play in croke park often anyway and the tailteaan cup gives small teams more opportunity now to play there  so its not  the case of but your denying there dream of playing in croke park.

League finals for Casement 2067
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: naka on August 21, 2022, 09:55:02 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 17, 2022, 12:45:39 PM
should the league final be played outside of croke park and a different ground each year what are the attendances for league finals would they get a full crowd if played in  smaller ground and i think its different from club finals as teams in division 1 usually get to  an opportunity to play in croke park often anyway and the tailteaan cup gives small teams more opportunity now to play there  so its not  the case of but your denying there dream of playing in croke park.
Can't see this happening croke park have up to 10000 premium tickets holders to cater for
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 21, 2022, 01:13:39 PM
I think advertisers might have a bigger say over fans.
There will be loads to discuss about this year. Penalty shootouts, no time for replays, rushed All Ireland and how it will pan out next year with the mini leagues.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on August 21, 2022, 02:55:47 PM
With a more congested season next year HQ are already looking at what they can drop to make room. Connacht GAA chief John Prenty has called for league finals to be scrapped.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 21, 2022, 03:20:13 PM
But you will never seeing callling for  them to get rid of provincials
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 21, 2022, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 21, 2022, 02:55:47 PM
With a more congested season next year HQ are already looking at what they can drop to make room. Connacht GAA chief John Prenty has called for league finals to be scrapped.

that leads  to more dead rubbers teams that cant get 1st or be relegated have nothing to play for   if they had a chance to get 2nd to make a league final they still have something to play for
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 21, 2022, 03:23:41 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 21, 2022, 02:55:47 PM
With a more congested season next year HQ are already looking at what they can drop to make room. Connacht GAA chief John Prenty has called for league finals to be scrapped.


if it was me i would actually bring back league semi finals but maybe just have one of them 2nd v 3rd to play 1st in final.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on August 21, 2022, 05:12:29 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 21, 2022, 03:20:13 PM
But you will never seeing callling for  them to get rid of provincials
He'll probably be looking to play the Connacht FBD pre season comp in his centre again next Jan also. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: twohands!!! on August 21, 2022, 08:02:20 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 21, 2022, 03:22:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 21, 2022, 02:55:47 PM
With a more congested season next year HQ are already looking at what they can drop to make room. Connacht GAA chief John Prenty has called for league finals to be scrapped.

that leads  to more dead rubbers teams that cant get 1st or be relegated have nothing to play for   if they had a chance to get 2nd to make a league final they still have something to play for

Finishing higher up the league is going to be important for seedings in the group stage of the championship and Tailteann so I doubt there's much of a risk of dead rubbers if they got rid of finals.
Still don't think they should - would only "save" one weekend.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 21, 2022, 08:16:23 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 21, 2022, 05:12:29 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 21, 2022, 03:20:13 PM
But you will never seeing callling for  them to get rid of provincials
He'll probably be looking to play the Connacht FBD pre season comp in his centre again next Jan also.
Ya can be sure of it >:(
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 22, 2022, 05:41:35 PM
Re next year with tailteann and 4x4


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/green-proposal-for-football-championship-reform-likely-to-get-green-light-1.4782418

Principles were: raising the standard by providing more games at an appropriate level for all teams but especially developing counties; retaining positive aspects of the current system; avoiding dead rubbers, fitting the available footprint; retaining current opportunities to be a winner and give all teams a chance of winning Sam Maguire; be easy to understand and have public acceptance.
Modify message
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 22, 2022, 06:41:41 PM
It's all set out in an Treóir Oifigiúil.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on August 23, 2022, 10:00:04 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 21, 2022, 02:55:47 PM
With a more congested season next year HQ are already looking at what they can drop to make room. Connacht GAA chief John Prenty has called for league finals to be scrapped.

Why not go the whole hog and scrap the league itself? And the provincials? And the early rounds of the championship while we're at it?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: twohands!!! on August 24, 2022, 11:12:11 AM
Anyone else think that attendances at club matches is up a fair bit this year?

Not sure if it's all due to the split-season but been at a couple of games the last few weeks and from what I've seen the crowds seem very good/excellent.

The fine weather is obviously a help and it's hard to guage especially compared to the recent COVID seasons and whether some of it is a bit of post-COVID/locdown bounce but one of the games I was at at the weekend I met a "neutral" fella in his 70s who mentioned he'd came along to watch partly due to the fine day and how it was great conditions for a game and it set me thinking. I was looking around and there definitely seemed to be more kids and families there. Club treasurer mentioned in passing last week crowds were up a good bit. Meant to ask him for more detail but conversation moved on and forgot. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 24, 2022, 11:23:00 AM
In previous years you had Club championship games in August in Counties which were out of the AIs.
But they had to compete with big games on TV and were being played at 6pm on Sunday evenings.
Now no big gaelic games on TV, all County teams finished and games at more suitable times on Sunday afternoons.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2022, 03:50:09 PM
The weather has certainly helped to be fair (better weather in August  ;) )

Was at our intermediate hurling group game and all the seats were taken, fair wee crowd at it for Friday night hurling (Eire90 will be wetting his pants at that info) 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: joemamas on August 24, 2022, 04:33:09 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 24, 2022, 03:50:09 PM
The weather has certainly helped to be fair (better weather in August  ;) )

Was at our intermediate hurling group game and all the seats were taken, fair wee crowd at it for Friday night hurling (Eire90 and his ten aliases will be wetting his pantsat that info)

Diaper

Fixed that for you
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on August 24, 2022, 05:01:47 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on August 24, 2022, 11:12:11 AM
Anyone else think that attendances at club matches is up a fair bit this year?

Not sure if it's all due to the split-season but been at a couple of games the last few weeks and from what I've seen the crowds seem very good/excellent.

The fine weather is obviously a help and it's hard to guage especially compared to the recent COVID seasons and whether some of it is a bit of post-COVID/locdown bounce but one of the games I was at at the weekend I met a "neutral" fella in his 70s who mentioned he'd came along to watch partly due to the fine day and how it was great conditions for a game and it set me thinking. I was looking around and there definitely seemed to be more kids and families there. Club treasurer mentioned in passing last week crowds were up a good bit. Meant to ask him for more detail but conversation moved on and forgot. Any thoughts?

Definitely more buzz about the clubs this year.

But fcuk that

Marketing
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on September 06, 2022, 10:43:18 AM
Definitely more at the games in Kildare from what I can see.
I see John Duggan is digging in on Twitter saying that he misses the championship and if we all love the club game so much then why were the club finals never sold out.
He is packaging it as if you are fan of club games, as opposed to a fan of your own club and neutrals tend to go to the county finals.

The Indo is doing another listicle on the best county team to do some shite or another in the past 25 years. Such absilute spoofers.

In Kildare two weeks ago Johnny Doyle missed his first championship game for his club since 1995!! It was picked up a bit after the club tweeted it, but that is a great feature there.

Big Dan still playing for Lismore and I bet there are 100s of other great stories all over the country...but if #TheToughest are not sending these lads on a junket and plopping a county star in front of them they don't care.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: yellowcard on September 06, 2022, 11:04:14 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on September 06, 2022, 10:43:18 AM
Definitely more at the games in Kildare from what I can see.
I see John Duggan is digging in on Twitter saying that he misses the championship and if we all love the club game so much then why were the club finals never sold out.
He is packaging it as if you are fan of club games, as opposed to a fan of your own club and neutrals tend to go to the county finals.

The Indo is doing another listicle on the best county team to do some shite or another in the past 25 years. Such absilute spoofers.

In Kildare two weeks ago Johnny Doyle missed his first championship game for his club since 1995!! It was picked up a bit after the club tweeted it, but that is a great feature there.

Big Dan still playing for Lismore and I bet there are 100s of other great stories all over the country...but if #TheToughest are not sending these lads on a junket and plopping a county star in front of them they don't care.

There is a disconnect between the casual armchair sports event junkie and the grassroots GAA club member/coach/volunteer/player when it comes to this issue. I don't know John Duggan but he strikes me as being one of the former. The sports media are pushing this narrative but the vast majority involved at club level appreciate the change in favour of grass roots members as well as the players of both the club and county game.     
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 06, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
I suppose it comes down to whether you want to please the playing membership or the casual armchair/ big game follower.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on September 06, 2022, 05:18:34 PM
Yeah, lookit we all know that the casuals bring a lot of money in but that lad is in the national media. He is not a casual fan, it's his job to report on sport and there is a lot going on.

They are too fond of the going along to chatting the biggest names at some sponsored event to actually do the job of a sports journalist in finding stories and they are the ones keeping the debate going.




Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2022, 08:54:21 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on September 06, 2022, 05:18:34 PM
Yeah, lookit we all know that the casuals bring a lot of money in but that lad is in the national media. He is not a casual fan, it's his job to report on sport and there is a lot going on.

They are too fond of the going along to chatting the biggest names at some sponsored event to actually do the job of a sports journalist in finding stories and they are the ones keeping the debate going.

Do these sports jouno's only cover inter county GAA? have they no depth to their craft? Haven't bought at paper in what feels like 15 years, any news is picked up from links on here.. Which is worrying as my daughter is starting a journalism and media degree this year!!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 08, 2022, 09:03:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
I suppose it comes down to whether you want to please the playing membership or the casual armchair/ big game follower.
Which group provides the money? Maybe look there
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 08, 2022, 09:18:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2022, 09:03:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
I suppose it comes down to whether you want to please the playing membership or the casual armchair/ big game follower.
Which group provides the money? Maybe look there

Its the 39 armchair/no club/never played viewers on that poll
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 08, 2022, 10:25:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2022, 09:03:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
I suppose it comes down to whether you want to please the playing membership or the casual armchair/ big game follower.
Which group provides the money? Maybe look there
The armchair TV* fan provides no money directly.
The occasional, big game or Inter Co championship game spectator still has the same games to pay in to.

* TV companies still paying for media rights to show the games.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 08, 2022, 12:08:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 08, 2022, 10:25:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2022, 09:03:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
I suppose it comes down to whether you want to please the playing membership or the casual armchair/ big game follower.
Which group provides the money? Maybe look there
The armchair TV* fan provides no money directly.
The occasional, big game or Inter Co championship game spectator still has the same games to pay in to.

* TV companies still paying for media rights to show the games.
Ads designed to get the eyes of the armchair fan are significant in terms of revenue.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 08, 2022, 01:57:38 PM
But there are still the same amount of big GAA games, just shorter gaps between them.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 08, 2022, 06:32:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 08, 2022, 01:57:38 PM
But there are still the same amount of big GAA games, just shorter gaps between them.
Less overall focus so smaller budgets.
Let's see how the experiment looks in the GAA's accounts.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on September 09, 2022, 07:28:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2022, 09:03:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
I suppose it comes down to whether you want to please the playing membership or the casual armchair/ big game follower.
Which group provides the money? Maybe look there

The money is for nothing if the grassroots volunteers and club players don't exist.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on September 09, 2022, 07:32:45 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2022, 12:08:14 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 08, 2022, 10:25:30 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2022, 09:03:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2022, 11:08:44 AM
I suppose it comes down to whether you want to please the playing membership or the casual armchair/ big game follower.
Which group provides the money? Maybe look there
The armchair TV* fan provides no money directly.
The occasional, big game or Inter Co championship game spectator still has the same games to pay in to.

* TV companies still paying for media rights to show the games.
Ads designed to get the eyes of the armchair fan are significant in terms of revenue.

How significant?  Do you have a breakdown of how much this is costing in terms of this revenue stream?

Do you have any understanding of how quickly the whole house of cards collapses if the bottom row ceases to exist?

Have you ever set foot inside your local GAA club in the past 20 years?  Do you even have one?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on September 10, 2022, 01:05:55 PM
#BuyAPaper


https://www.rte.ie/learn/senior-cycle/2021/0506/1214217-im-fine-rte-player-mental-health/
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 11, 2022, 12:44:26 PM
from 2018

GAA income in millions

Gate receipts    29.6
Commercial      19.6
State funding    5.1
Other income    9.3

Total              63.6

Expenditure

Match Day         10.1
Team Costs          4.9
Co/Provincial        8.9
Games Dev         11.1
Player welfare      7.3
Admin                 10.5
Operating Grants  4.6
Capital Grants       4.1
Investment           0.9
Competition Costs  0.7

Total 63.1

The GAA isn't about county v parish. Funding is built from various sources to benefit the whole organisation.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on September 11, 2022, 12:58:41 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 07, 2022, 11:07:28 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on May 07, 2022, 10:43:24 PM
gaa has a lot to compete with these days

One of them being that a lot of the "problems" are imaginary

It all depends on where you live. If you live in rural Ireland then Gaelic Football is probably the only team sport in your area.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on September 12, 2022, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 11, 2022, 12:44:26 PM
from 2018

GAA income in millions

Gate receipts    29.6
Commercial      19.6
State funding    5.1
Other income    9.3

Total              63.6

Expenditure

Match Day         10.1
Team Costs          4.9
Co/Provincial        8.9
Games Dev         11.1
Player welfare      7.3
Admin                 10.5
Operating Grants  4.6
Capital Grants       4.1
Investment           0.9
Competition Costs  0.7

Total 63.1

The GAA isn't about county v parish. Funding is built from various sources to benefit the whole organisation.

So what's the estimate for the £19.6m figure now?

Are we talking a decrease of 10%? 50%?

Give us a few numbers here.

Have we any idea of the gate receipts for the club games?

I'd have expected a modest increase here, given that they're the only show in town atm

If you can present some hard facts, then it can be debated

Otherwise, continuing to argue this point is a bit of a waste of time
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 10:26:45 AM
Quote from: Franko on September 12, 2022, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 11, 2022, 12:44:26 PM
from 2018

GAA income in millions

Gate receipts    29.6
Commercial      19.6
State funding    5.1
Other income    9.3

Total              63.6

Expenditure

Match Day         10.1
Team Costs          4.9
Co/Provincial        8.9
Games Dev         11.1
Player welfare      7.3
Admin                 10.5
Operating Grants  4.6
Capital Grants       4.1
Investment           0.9
Competition Costs  0.7

Total 63.1

The GAA isn't about county v parish. Funding is built from various sources to benefit the whole organisation.

So what's the estimate for the £19.6m figure now?

Are we talking a decrease of 10%? 50%?

Give us a few numbers here.

Have we any idea of the gate receipts for the club games?

I'd have expected a modest increase here, given that they're the only show in town atm

If you can present some hard facts, then it can be debated

Otherwise, continuing to argue this point is a bit of a waste of time
I imagine  receipts for club matches stay in the county.
If you want updated stats go and google them
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on September 12, 2022, 01:18:05 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 12, 2022, 10:26:45 AM
Quote from: Franko on September 12, 2022, 09:24:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 11, 2022, 12:44:26 PM
from 2018

GAA income in millions

Gate receipts    29.6
Commercial      19.6
State funding    5.1
Other income    9.3

Total              63.6

Expenditure

Match Day         10.1
Team Costs          4.9
Co/Provincial        8.9
Games Dev         11.1
Player welfare      7.3
Admin                 10.5
Operating Grants  4.6
Capital Grants       4.1
Investment           0.9
Competition Costs  0.7

Total 63.1

The GAA isn't about county v parish. Funding is built from various sources to benefit the whole organisation.

So what's the estimate for the £19.6m figure now?

Are we talking a decrease of 10%? 50%?

Give us a few numbers here.

Have we any idea of the gate receipts for the club games?

I'd have expected a modest increase here, given that they're the only show in town atm

If you can present some hard facts, then it can be debated

Otherwise, continuing to argue this point is a bit of a waste of time
I imagine  receipts for club matches stay in the county.
If you want updated stats go and google them

Indeed - but as you've just said - they'll be used to benefit the whole organisation

And as we all know, there are no published figures for 2022

But there's a few blowhards who are certain they are going to read badly as the advertisers and sponsors have apparently run for the hills

Except... when you ask them to even put an estimate on this, they fall silent....
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 13, 2022, 07:56:38 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/othersport/arid-40960145.html
The conclusion of the Allianz Football League in late March has often been discussed as the best example for a GAA Redzone. With games in each division having to take place at the same time in the interests of fairness (there has been the rare exception), it's an engrossingly manic day that will be even more so next season as the link between the competition and the Sam Maguire Cup strengthens.

With this year's Tailteann Cup winners Westmeath guaranteed to be in the All-Ireland competition, there are 15 places available and at least seven will be filled based on league finishes. Dublin will be expected to streak away with Division 2 and Derry and Kildare will likely fight it out for the next promotion spot but for the remainder of the teams they know remaining in the division gives them a decent chance of playing Sam Maguire Cup football, whatever happens in the provincial championships.

The finale of the Super 16s, the group stages of the Sam Maguire Cup, in June next year has the potential to be just as thrilling. It has been claimed there will be dead rubbers but as GAA director of club, player and games administration Feargal McGill pointed out when it was voted in last February: "The possibility of games that have no meaning is miniscule in the Green proposal because each of the four places in a group will have meaning – first, straight to quarter-final, second, home preliminary quarter-final, third, qualifies for preliminary quarter-final, fourth, eliminated." 

Spread over two days, two groups concluding on a Saturday and the other two the following day, it could be TV gold if the goings-on at both games in each group are relayed in real time. As the Tailteann Cup is being run on a similar format, it too could generate animation as it comes to a knock-out crescendo.

And what about the feast of games of import that are only around the corner? To an extent, October had been county final month before the split season but we can officially christen it that now. At least 50 senior finals are scheduled to take place next month. A minimum of 13 are pencilled in for the weekend of October 9, a minimum of 11 for that of October 16, the same the following weekend and seven on the Halloween weekend.

Such clustering presents challenges for broadcasters but frenetically going around the grounds can be exciting. The lasting popularity of Sky Sports' Soccer Saturday and the rise of supporter updates on platforms such as YouTube only underlines the attraction of live sport even when it isn't visible.

In fairness to TG4, they have been excellent in informing viewers of the permutations unfolding on the final days of the football and hurling group stages. RTÉ Radio One have also made their reporting as seamless as possible, one commentator at a county venue handing over to another elsewhere instead of going back to the studio. It generates a flow and a thrill.

It's to them, not Twitter, where eyes and ears should be going on the GAA season's days of mass reckoning. But more innovative thinking will be required if the organisation is to promote its wares in the best possible light
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 13, 2022, 08:13:30 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2022/0912/1322014-sherlock-split-season-requires-period-of-reflection/
Former Dublin star Jason Sherlock believes that the GAA's split-season format requires a period of reflection to ensure that all parties are as satisfied as possible.

An All-Ireland winner 27 years ago, Sherlock went on to manage his county at minor level and was also part of Jim Gavin's coaching staff for five Dublin Sam Maguire triumphs.

Now though, he is approaching the situation from the standpoint of a spectator, and he said that it's important that all personal biases are removed when deciding whether changes needed to be made.

"I kind of see it from a few different perspectives and like all changes, they're brought in for a reason," said Sherlock.

"At the moment, from a supporter perspective, it feels like it's a bit of a wrong thing to do, and rightly so.

"I was watching sport yesterday [Sunday], the Italian Grand Prix, the golf and the rugby and I'm not watching inter-county GAA. I had flicked on Ballygunner and Mount Sion but there is a deficit there from a supporters' perspective, and that's really important.

"The GAA is also an association, and how they progress and probably more importantly [consider] the players – inter-county players and also club players....it's important to factor in everyone's perspective to try and come up with the best solution.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on September 13, 2022, 08:17:18 AM
The bit that Jason neglects there is that has the PL been on, he and the rest of Ireland would have been watching it, and it would have been a perfectly fine autumnal Sunday.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on September 13, 2022, 09:40:18 AM
A guy who left his club to join a rival club was never likely to be the best advertisement for the club game.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: yellowcard on September 13, 2022, 11:38:59 AM
It sounds like Jason was not happy with the TV sporting entertainment on offer to him at the weekend. It was a weekend where there was a deficit of sport due to the cancellation of PL action among others. Also under the old GAA season only 2 Sundays in September were set aside for the AI finals so Sunday past would have been a free weekend anyway.

It sounds like now that he is out of the player/management bubble that he wants a return to a prolonged county season to satisfy his own entertainment needs so he is basically just looking out for himself. Which is similar to when he moved to a neighbouring rival club because his friends had retired.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on September 13, 2022, 03:32:25 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 13, 2022, 08:13:30 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2022/0912/1322014-sherlock-split-season-requires-period-of-reflection/
Former Dublin star Jason Sherlock believes that the GAA's split-season format requires a period of reflection to ensure that all parties are as satisfied as possible.

An All-Ireland winner 27 years ago, Sherlock went on to manage his county at minor level and was also part of Jim Gavin's coaching staff for five Dublin Sam Maguire triumphs.

Now though, he is approaching the situation from the standpoint of a spectator, and he said that it's important that all personal biases are removed when deciding whether changes needed to be made.

"I kind of see it from a few different perspectives and like all changes, they're brought in for a reason," said Sherlock.

"At the moment, from a supporter perspective, it feels like it's a bit of a wrong thing to do, and rightly so.

"I was watching sport yesterday [Sunday], the Italian Grand Prix, the golf and the rugby and I'm not watching inter-county GAA. I had flicked on Ballygunner and Mount Sion but there is a deficit there from a supporters' perspective, and that's really important.

"The GAA is also an association, and how they progress and probably more importantly [consider] the players – inter-county players and also club players....it's important to factor in everyone's perspective to try and come up with the best solution.

What does this word salad even mean?

He'd rather watch the Monza GP or the BMW PGA than the Waterford Hurling Final?

The fact remains that in previous years he'd have most likely been watching NO Gaelic Games this weekend

So he could have watched the golf and F1 in peace

Wheisht Jayo, you're making a wally of yourself
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Gael85 on September 13, 2022, 10:34:07 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on September 13, 2022, 11:38:59 AM
It sounds like Jason was not happy with the TV sporting entertainment on offer to him at the weekend. It was a weekend where there was a deficit of sport due to the cancellation of PL action among others. Also under the old GAA season only 2 Sundays in September were set aside for the AI finals so Sunday past would have been a free weekend anyway.

It sounds like now that he is out of the player/management bubble that he wants a return to a prolonged county season to satisfy his own entertainment needs so he is basically just looking out for himself. Which is similar to when he moved to a neighbouring rival club because his friends had retired.

Jayo left Na Fianna due to a dispute in club. He was 33 when transferred.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: yellowcard on September 14, 2022, 04:05:42 PM
Quote from: Gael85 on September 13, 2022, 10:34:07 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on September 13, 2022, 11:38:59 AM
It sounds like Jason was not happy with the TV sporting entertainment on offer to him at the weekend. It was a weekend where there was a deficit of sport due to the cancellation of PL action among others. Also under the old GAA season only 2 Sundays in September were set aside for the AI finals so Sunday past would have been a free weekend anyway.

It sounds like now that he is out of the player/management bubble that he wants a return to a prolonged county season to satisfy his own entertainment needs so he is basically just looking out for himself. Which is similar to when he moved to a neighbouring rival club because his friends had retired.

Jayo left Na Fianna due to a dispute in club. He was 33 when transferred.

Well I'm only going by what he stated himself in his own autobiography.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/gaa-club-transfers-that-shocked-the-county-jason-sherlock-242887
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 15, 2022, 01:43:03 PM
Declan Bonner @ 1:07:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiH-w6nydSw
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on September 15, 2022, 03:44:15 PM
The weather is the problem says the boul Declan

Speaking from Donegal, Ireland  ;D ;D

Straws are being clutched at a feverish rate

You'd have been better leaving that one out seafoid, cos if that's the best that can be offered then this is a done deal
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 16, 2022, 08:37:06 PM
Here's Joe brolly in 2020 for ya, Franko

starts around 22:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spt5PdYOmWY
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 20, 2022, 10:36:13 AM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40965026.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 20, 2022, 10:55:26 AM
Maybe a debate about August/ and possibly September would be in order.
They could start the League later
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 20, 2022, 01:36:55 PM
And play Co Finals Stephenses Day?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on September 20, 2022, 01:50:03 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 20, 2022, 10:55:26 AM
Maybe a debate about August/ and possibly September would be in order.
They could start the League later

Why would this debate be in order?

If anything, judging by Rossfan's post, the debate is settled

This schedule has been drawn up by people who have real time info on the financial implications of what they are doing

They seem to have (largely) ignored the main concerns of the opposing cohort, which can be summarised so far as;

Marketing
Weather
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 21, 2022, 10:08:55 AM
https://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/325098

Add around 120 Intermediate and 120 Junior.
Say an average 400 spectators per match = around 125,000 @ average €11 ,add programme sales, tay etc probably grosses €1.5m.


And while I'm at it...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40965782.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on September 21, 2022, 02:27:40 PM
The quarter finals of ulster can be run off in two days  two double headers Saturday and Sunday  three days if you wanted to have a friday night game lol.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on September 21, 2022, 03:26:08 PM

Pat Spillane has explained why he thinks playing All-Ireland Finals in July is "stupid".

"I'm against the split season."
While club championships are now well underway, Spillane feels that the GAA are missing a trick by curtailing the inter-county season so early.


"I'm completely against the split season," the former RTE pundit told the Irish Independent.

"We have taken our two best products, inter-county hurling and football, and taken them off the shop window for nine months.


"It's absolutely stupid."
"Now, when you take your best product out of the shop window for nine months, you give the opposition a chance. Maybe we're not going to go as far as the third Sunday in September to play an All-Ireland final, but at least take back the month of August.

"People say, 'oh, you're only saying that because you used to get paid for The Sunday Game' and that's a load of rubbish. I'm passionate about the GAA and a passionate GAA man, a passionate clubman and I like to see the GAA thriving.


"We've lost the month of August, we've lost the month of September and the main national papers are not talking about club matches. We're not talking about club matches and we're losing that opportunity for inter-county games, we need to change it. It's an own goal.

"It's absolutely stupid playing an All-Ireland in the middle of July. The funds for grassroots come from the inter-county game so without a vibrant inter-county calendar, we're cutting off our noses to spite our faces," he said.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: naka on September 21, 2022, 03:44:22 PM
tbf probably the first time i ever agreed with Pat.
finals at end of August wouldn`t be that catastrophic.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 21, 2022, 04:15:57 PM
Would for the Cork CCC
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on September 21, 2022, 08:04:40 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 21, 2022, 03:26:08 PM

Pat Spillane has explained why he thinks playing All-Ireland Finals in July is "stupid".

"I'm against the split season."
While club championships are now well underway, Spillane feels that the GAA are missing a trick by curtailing the inter-county season so early.


"I'm completely against the split season," the former RTE pundit told the Irish Independent.

"We have taken our two best products, inter-county hurling and football, and taken them off the shop window for nine months.


"It's absolutely stupid."
"Now, when you take your best product out of the shop window for nine months, you give the opposition a chance. Maybe we're not going to go as far as the third Sunday in September to play an All-Ireland final, but at least take back the month of August.

"People say, 'oh, you're only saying that because you used to get paid for The Sunday Game' and that's a load of rubbish. I'm passionate about the GAA and a passionate GAA man, a passionate clubman and I like to see the GAA thriving.


"We've lost the month of August, we've lost the month of September and the main national papers are not talking about club matches. We're not talking about club matches and we're losing that opportunity for inter-county games, we need to change it. It's an own goal.

"It's absolutely stupid playing an All-Ireland in the middle of July. The funds for grassroots come from the inter-county game so without a vibrant inter-county calendar, we're cutting off our noses to spite our faces," he said.

Again, I'd ask that Pat put a figure against the hyperbole

What exactly is this costing?

Then we can assess as objectively as possible against the clear benefits that the clubs have felt

Regarding the national papers - perhaps they aren't, but I know the regional ones around me have been providing great coverage of the club games.  Maybe the small regional papers are another benefit here?

Maybe the GAA fans should stop buying the national papers until they provide some decent coverage of the games?

Maybe RTE could do a midweek round up of the games around the country (and send cameras to a couple?)

Maybe we should just accept that the GAA is not about money - the absolute CORE of the GAA are the volunteers and club players

Maybe having a few quid less floating around the clubs will stop the GAA leaking funds to the mercenary managers

Maybe we could cut the payments to the GPA leeches - it might stop the relentless push towards professionalism, which fcuked club Rugby in Ireland

Or maybe... just maybe... for once in this f**king materialistic shite hole of a country - we shouldn't sacrifice something we hold dear on the altar of money
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: bigarsedkeeper on September 22, 2022, 02:23:12 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 21, 2022, 03:26:08 PM

Pat Spillane has explained why he thinks playing All-Ireland Finals in July is "stupid".

"I'm against the split season."
While club championships are now well underway, Spillane feels that the GAA are missing a trick by curtailing the inter-county season so early.


"I'm completely against the split season," the former RTE pundit told the Irish Independent.

"We have taken our two best products, inter-county hurling and football, and taken them off the shop window for nine months.


"It's absolutely stupid."
"Now, when you take your best product out of the shop window for nine months, you give the opposition a chance. Maybe we're not going to go as far as the third Sunday in September to play an All-Ireland final, but at least take back the month of August.

"People say, 'oh, you're only saying that because you used to get paid for The Sunday Game' and that's a load of rubbish. I'm passionate about the GAA and a passionate GAA man, a passionate clubman and I like to see the GAA thriving.


"We've lost the month of August, we've lost the month of September and the main national papers are not talking about club matches. We're not talking about club matches and we're losing that opportunity for inter-county games, we need to change it. It's an own goal.

"It's absolutely stupid playing an All-Ireland in the middle of July. The funds for grassroots come from the inter-county game so without a vibrant inter-county calendar, we're cutting off our noses to spite our faces," he said.

I think finals in September made the season too long. The huge amount of games between both codes in July this year was very enjoyable, got down to Kerry's win over the Dubs and it was a great atmosphere. Maybe the season could be stretched out to mid August because most counties didn't start championship until then anyway. The GAA has to be about more than just intercounty on the TV, club players need a decent championship every year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 22, 2022, 02:31:06 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2022/0922/1324815-what-the-proposed-2023-gaa-calendar-looks-like/
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on September 22, 2022, 02:32:12 PM
2023 season that's proposed

JANUARY

Under the proposal, the new season will begin with All-Ireland senior club football semi-finals in the second week of January with the finals in both codes taking place on 21 or 22 January.

A week later the Allianz Football and Hurling Leagues will begin.

FEBRUARY

The Sigerson Cup final is down for 15 February with the Fitzgibbon Cup decider three days later.

MARCH

The next key landmark is the start of the Under-20 football championship, which will not commence until 18 and 19 March at the earliest.

With such pressure on the fixtures calendar, and to allow breathing space between the end of the football league relegation games and the start of the provincial championships, the GAA's Competitions Control Committee will this weekend request that there are no league finals across the four football divisions, allowing a two-week gap before the start of the championships.

APRIL

Hurling league finals will take place on the weekend of 1/2 April. The provincial football series will begin a week later.


MAY

Provincial finals will take place early May.

The new format, if passed at Central Council level, would see both the qualifiers for the Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup competitions played across three weekends, starting on 18 May.

JUNE

The All-Ireland football quarter-finals are down for the start of June under the proposed new draft.

In hurling, the move to play both the Leinster and Munster showpieces on the same day will attract plenty of debate. If the new plan is adapted the Joe McDonagh Cup final could now take place before the All-Ireland U20 hurling final at the end of May.

JULY

The Tailteann Cup final is down for 15/16 July, with the All-Ireland hurling final taking place a week later. Under these proposals the All-Ireland football final will move from 23 to 30 July.

AUGUST AND EVERYTHING AFTER

The first weekend in August would facilitate a hurling final replay and also signal the start of county championships across the country. From week 32 until week 51, with the hurling semi-finals ending the season, the club championships will dominate the calendar
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on September 22, 2022, 04:12:47 PM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/09/20/news/kicking_out_weak_club-2834486/

i agree with this all county championships should be straight knock out in my opinion.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on September 23, 2022, 12:15:34 AM
Emlyn Mulligan of Leitrim

QuoteGetting the opportunity to represent Leitrim in a league final in CROKE PARK in 2019 is the probably the highlight of my career.

The opportunities to play there for Division 3&4 teams especially are rear, the league final gives players that chance.

Don't fix what's not broken!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 23, 2022, 09:20:03 AM
If they only have 7 months why do they have to start in January ?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on September 23, 2022, 02:25:02 PM
insead of getting rid of league finals maybe split the league into two groups of 4 open draw tho not the geographical thing they had during covid.In each division and then the top  two play semi finals and final with bottom in each group relegated  and maybe you  could do  an inter group match aswell so each team plays 4 group league games and then a semi and final which be 6 games maximum
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 23, 2022, 02:53:42 PM
Let's stop playing feckn games altogether.....
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on September 24, 2022, 02:54:35 PM
All Ireland final pushed back to the last week in July and the League finals will be played this next year.  HQ didn't get their way yet but will try again next year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: joemamas on September 24, 2022, 05:19:40 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on September 24, 2022, 02:54:35 PM
All Ireland final pushed back to the last week in July and the League finals will be played this next year.  HQ didn't get their way yet but will try again next year.

So stupid, they could not put it back three weeks to mid August.
I have spoken to a lot of genuine GAA folk and to a person they have all said it was dumb having the all-irelands in July. Most agreed that late September was not on, most settled on mid August as a compromise, except the powers to be in Croke Park.
As of July 2 2023, there will be four county teams left in the 2023 championship. This will result in a huge amount of younger county players going abroad to places like Chicago Boston, NY etc, from June onwards .Who can blame them they will have put six or seven months of hard slogging and little or no out or socializing. In addition, most county championships will not begin until mid to late August.
The PR departments of soccer and rugger organizations must be delighted with the as are probably RTE.
I personally haven't watch as much premier league soccer in August for about twenty years.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 25, 2022, 01:34:08 PM
https://www.gaa.ie/news/ard-chomhairle-bulletin-x8408/
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 01:49:34 PM
Had held back on voting in the poll until I saw how it played out with the club season.

I voted failure. The county championship felt rushed, with little build up between games. Always liked the way the County championship ran throughout the summer.
Clubs are still going to be playing on dark wet pitches in October which I thought was supposed to be avoided with this setup. What was the point?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on September 25, 2022, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 01:49:34 PM
Had held back on voting in the poll until I saw how it played out with the club season.

I voted failure. The county championship felt rushed, with little build up between games. Always liked the way the County championship ran throughout the summer.
Clubs are still going to be playing on dark wet pitches in October which I thought was supposed to be avoided with this setup. What was the point?

Most counties are at semi final stage now. Some at final stages. There won't be many clubs playing in October. Players will finally have an off season.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Kidder81 on September 25, 2022, 03:25:54 PM
I think the problem is how some counties set up their championship, in Antrim here the senior hurling was a joke, 3 out of 4 teams qualified with a weak 4th team. Absolutely no jeopardy involved
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 25, 2022, 03:38:05 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 01:49:34 PM
Had held back on voting in the poll until I saw how it played out with the club season.

I voted failure. The county championship felt rushed, with little build up between games. Always liked the way the County championship ran throughout the summer.
Clubs are still going to be playing on dark wet pitches in October which I thought was supposed to be avoided with this setup. What was the point?
Everything was rushed this year in the all Ireland
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: shark on September 25, 2022, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 01:49:34 PM
Had held back on voting in the poll until I saw how it played out with the club season.

I voted failure. The county championship felt rushed, with little build up between games. Always liked the way the County championship ran throughout the summer.
Clubs are still going to be playing on dark wet pitches in October which I thought was supposed to be avoided with this setup. What was the point?

Most counties are at semi final stage now. Some at final stages. There won't be many clubs playing in October. Players will finally have an off season.

Fair enough, was basing this on my own county mainly (first round games only this weekend). Haven't paid much attention to elsewhere this year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on September 25, 2022, 07:26:21 PM
i dont think there was anything on rte news at 6  sport section about todays club championship games
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on September 26, 2022, 09:06:26 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: shark on September 25, 2022, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 01:49:34 PM
Had held back on voting in the poll until I saw how it played out with the club season.

I voted failure. The county championship felt rushed, with little build up between games. Always liked the way the County championship ran throughout the summer.
Clubs are still going to be playing on dark wet pitches in October which I thought was supposed to be avoided with this setup. What was the point?

Most counties are at semi final stage now. Some at final stages. There won't be many clubs playing in October. Players will finally have an off season.

Fair enough, was basing this on my own county mainly (first round games only this weekend). Haven't paid much attention to elsewhere this year.

That's one of my problems with it. I honestly don't care about other counties activities. I'm sure there are the dedicated Gaels who watch every televised game under the sun and know who's the form team in the various county championships, but they don't appeal to me. I wonder how many people will watch the TG4 double-header from Mayo on Sunday in other counties.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 26, 2022, 09:12:35 AM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on September 26, 2022, 09:06:26 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: shark on September 25, 2022, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 01:49:34 PM
Had held back on voting in the poll until I saw how it played out with the club season.

I voted failure. The county championship felt rushed, with little build up between games. Always liked the way the County championship ran throughout the summer.
Clubs are still going to be playing on dark wet pitches in October which I thought was supposed to be avoided with this setup. What was the point?

Most counties are at semi final stage now. Some at final stages. There won't be many clubs playing in October. Players will finally have an off season.

Fair enough, was basing this on my own county mainly (first round games only this weekend). Haven't paid much attention to elsewhere this year.

That's one of my problems with it. I honestly don't care about other counties activities. I'm sure there are the dedicated Gaels who watch every televised game under the sun and know who's the form team in the various county championships, but they don't appeal to me. I wonder how many people will watch the TG4 double-header from Mayo on Sunday in other counties.

Would watch most games if in and record the hurling club games and watch later if I'm out at local games, It's a great service by TG4 and when your county is one of the games on TV its even better. Would you be watching an Antrim and Down intercounty hurling game on TV?  That fixture wouldn't appeal to most but neither would Leitrim v Louth
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on September 26, 2022, 09:43:54 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: shark on September 25, 2022, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 01:49:34 PM
Had held back on voting in the poll until I saw how it played out with the club season.

I voted failure. The county championship felt rushed, with little build up between games. Always liked the way the County championship ran throughout the summer.
Clubs are still going to be playing on dark wet pitches in October which I thought was supposed to be avoided with this setup. What was the point?

Most counties are at semi final stage now. Some at final stages. There won't be many clubs playing in October. Players will finally have an off season.

Fair enough, was basing this on my own county mainly (first round games only this weekend). Haven't paid much attention to elsewhere this year.
Surely thats on the county board if first round games are only happening now. Armagh semi finals were played yesterday and we were in the all ireland a bit longer than yourselves this year (for once)  ;)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: twohands!!! on September 26, 2022, 11:02:25 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 26, 2022, 09:43:54 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: shark on September 25, 2022, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 01:49:34 PM
Had held back on voting in the poll until I saw how it played out with the club season.

I voted failure. The county championship felt rushed, with little build up between games. Always liked the way the County championship ran throughout the summer.
Clubs are still going to be playing on dark wet pitches in October which I thought was supposed to be avoided with this setup. What was the point?

Most counties are at semi final stage now. Some at final stages. There won't be many clubs playing in October. Players will finally have an off season.

Fair enough, was basing this on my own county mainly (first round games only this weekend). Haven't paid much attention to elsewhere this year.
Surely thats on the county board if first round games are only happening now. Armagh semi finals were played yesterday and we were in the all ireland a bit longer than yourselves this year (for once)  ;)

Offaly (football) and Kildare (hurling) had county finals this weekend and there was a ton of counties with semi-finals.
Most counties are getting close to the business end now.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 26, 2022, 11:43:49 AM
There are 2 major trends involved . One is finishing the championship so soccer can have the run of August. The other is the split between Sam Maguire and Tailteann with Nations League size groups  so counties get as many matches as possible at their own level in order to improve standards.
The second is the most interesting. It's a massive change for the GAA.
The first may be reversible. They don't have to start in January.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Hound on September 26, 2022, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2022, 11:43:49 AM
....One is finishing the championship so soccer can have the run of August.
This is what Spillane and others have been saying, and I just don't get it.

Why the hell should the GAA care when the soccer or rugby seasons start or finish? The GAA should do what suits it and the split season seems to really suit most club players.

You don't hear soccer saying "The GAA has the run of July - we need to start earlier"
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on September 26, 2022, 01:16:39 PM
Quote from: Hound on September 26, 2022, 01:07:35 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 26, 2022, 11:43:49 AM
....One is finishing the championship so soccer can have the run of August.
This is what Spillane and others have been saying, and I just don't get it.

Why the hell should the GAA care when the soccer or rugby seasons start or finish? The GAA should do what suits it and the split season seems to really suit most club players.

You don't hear soccer saying "The GAA has the run of July - we need to start earlier"

Correct. It's a bogus argument made by people who either have no interest in the club game, or who have a financial motive to have intercounty going all summer long. I care for neither. Players first.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on September 26, 2022, 04:20:33 PM
Quote from: twohands!!! on September 26, 2022, 11:02:25 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on September 26, 2022, 09:43:54 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 03:42:12 PM
Quote from: shark on September 25, 2022, 02:19:38 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on September 25, 2022, 01:49:34 PM
Had held back on voting in the poll until I saw how it played out with the club season.

I voted failure. The county championship felt rushed, with little build up between games. Always liked the way the County championship ran throughout the summer.
Clubs are still going to be playing on dark wet pitches in October which I thought was supposed to be avoided with this setup. What was the point?

Most counties are at semi final stage now. Some at final stages. There won’t be many clubs playing in October. Players will finally have an off season.

Fair enough, was basing this on my own county mainly (first round games only this weekend). Haven't paid much attention to elsewhere this year.
Surely thats on the county board if first round games are only happening now. Armagh semi finals were played yesterday and we were in the all ireland a bit longer than yourselves this year (for once)  ;)

Offaly (football) and Kildare (hurling) had county finals this weekend and there was a ton of counties with semi-finals.
Most counties are getting close to the business end now.

Was it wise to finish them off that soon?  First week of November for the first Leinster football championship match for Rhode now. They play the Meath champions who have semi finals to play yet.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 26, 2022, 06:30:26 PM
This is the report behind the shorter season
https://www.esri.ie/news/new-research-examines-the-realities-of-being-a-senior-inter-county-player/

Irish Times article from last year
Seán Moran: Time for the other side of the amateurism coin to come under scrutiny
Workload on intercounty players must be key consideration of new championship proposals
about 6 hours ago

Seán Moran


LISTEN NOW 6:25

An ESRI study in 2018 showed that intercounty players were dedicating 31 hours a week to their involvement in Galeic games. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho


Twenty four years ago, we were also getting ready for a special congress. It arrived on November 1st and was the first such event in 12 years. It became the first full-scale deliberation by the GAA on what was and still remains a 'core value': amateurism in Gaelic games.
In just over two weeks, this year's special congress will consider the future of the football championship, which sounds an entirely different bag of arguments but there is a strong connection between the intercounty game and amateur status.
Arguably next year's calendar will be the most radical departure in Gaelic games this century and that's nothing to do with whatever championship format emerges, as it won't kick in until 2023 and is likely, anyway, to be subject to a trial period.
Next year, all going to plan in the post-pandemic world, we'll be finished with All-Irelands in mid-July (hurling) and the end of the month (football). When the now defunct Club Players' Association argued for such a timetable just four years ago, it was declared a fantasy but Covid taught us otherwise.
The concept of amateurism has also changed in the past 24 years. It's now simply a refusal to countenance pay for play
The report of the 1997 'Amateur Status sub-committee' makes quaint reading now but it was a serious attempt to get to grips with an issue that has prompted almost as much agonising in the years since as club fixtures.
It was the first engagement with how players might legitimately earn income from endorsements and media work and featured safeguards such as the individual receiving just 50 per cent of the fee from endorsements (Cork proposed just 40 per cent with 10 per cent going to the player's club), 30 per cent to the team panel and 10 per cent to both a hardship fund and the county board.
There was much talk of recognising the collective and how a full forward shouldn't be more important than a corner back – the full forward's riposte that it wasn't the corner back driving down rain-swept roads to open a convenience store would eventually lead to the binning of the levy.
Yet, according to sub-committee chair, former president Peter Quinn, the most significant aspect of the report was the proposal to centralise sponsorship from sports equipment manufacturers so that big counties wouldn't benefit disproportionately from their enhanced ability to attract commercial deals.
By the sub-committee's reckoning, only six or seven counties would be capable of negotiating a deal with manufacturers and that to cut in smaller counties, a national contract would be necessary.
•   Seán Moran: Jack O'Connor aware of the challenge posed by Ulster football
•   Seán Moran: Tyrone have a golden opportunity to truly inspire
•   Seán Moran: Limerick riding the crest of a wave that shows no signs of breaking
Of course it never happened.
The concept of amateurism has also changed in the past 24 years. It's now simply a refusal to countenance pay for play. There have been various test situations arising, the most interesting of which was Colm Cooper's testimonial in 2017.
Rule 1.10 states: "A player, team, official or member shall not accept payment in cash or in kind in conjunction with the playing of Gaelic games."
GAA activities have become increasingly onerous for players, managers and administrators. This hasn't escaped Croke Park's attention
This rule was scrutinised when the GAA sought legal opinion but the rule has remained unaltered in the meantime despite the advice that it had become if not meaningless, then certainly porous and of no application to testimonials.
Amateurism has also come under scrutiny from the other side of the equation – the extent to which Gaelic games involvement at the top level has placed strain on the notion of recreational activity.
Dr Elish Kelly's watershed 2018 ESRI report 'Playing Senior Inter-County Games: Experiences, Realities and Consequences' laid bare the life of intercounty players and the outsized demands placed on them.
At the time there was shock in Croke Park at the various extremes unveiled in the report – the headline finding was that players were dedicating 31 hours a week to their involvement – but scepticism amongst the rest of us that anything would be done to address the issue.
If intercounty activity is a runaway train, it's flattened a few territories. Anecdotal evidence is that counties are finding it increasingly difficult to find people who want to be involved in management. Someone involved in the recruitment process said privately that increasingly, the best candidates for any position – manager, coach or selector – aren't interested because of the demands on time and career.
Kerry completed the appointment of Jack O'Connor this week but it was a bruising, public process and the job now comes with terrifying levels of expectation that he win the All-Ireland in his first year.
Mayo chair Liam Moffatt unexpectedly announced that he was stepping down after just two years in charge of the county. Even for someone with a reputation for being willing to pile his plate high with voluntary commitments, the position became too much in light of "business and personal reasons".
GAA activities have become increasingly onerous for players, managers and administrators. This hasn't escaped Croke Park's attention.
In answer to a direct question as to whether those behind the new intercounty calendar had it at the back of their minds to reverse recent trends by reducing pressures on amateur status, Feargal McGill – the GAA's director of games administration – replied: "It's been at the front of our minds I would say! Alongside a proper closed season – it's now likely that collective training will only be allowed from December 15th onwards– it means the intensive intercounty 'training' season will run from mid-December to mid-June for most counties, six months, or seven for All-Ireland semi-finalists and finalists.
"Even in recent years that would have been mid-November to mid-July for most, eight months or nine months for the more successful. So yes, in terms of easing all the pressures on players highlighted in the ESRI report, it should go a long way.
"There are obviously associated benefits in terms of costs for county boards too: a six-month expense window versus an eight- or nine-month one is hugely significant and much more manageable."
Experience suggests that getting this particular genie back in the bottle won't be easy but if successful, this will be the first rolling back of the tide running against amateurism.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 27, 2022, 11:50:12 AM
Possible loss of €3m a "price worth paying".

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40969997.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 27, 2022, 02:02:01 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 27, 2022, 11:50:12 AM
Possible loss of €3m a "price worth paying".

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40969997.html
Presumably it will take a while to settle down
Replays were a big part of the decision to change.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on October 04, 2022, 10:54:32 AM
Some changes to AI Club Championships dates.
Full list at end of article

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40975232.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Farrandeelin on October 04, 2022, 09:46:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2022, 10:54:32 AM
Some changes to AI Club Championships dates.
Full list at end of article

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40975232.html

I think it's stupid to move the finals to January.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on October 04, 2022, 09:51:01 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 04, 2022, 09:46:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2022, 10:54:32 AM
Some changes to AI Club Championships dates.
Full list at end of article

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40975232.html

I think it's stupid to move the finals to January.

Finals was pencilled in for January its semi finals thats changed "The original dates for the football semi-finals had been December 10/11 but they are now set to take place on January 7/8. The All-Ireland senior finals as per the GAA's 2022-23 master fixtures were due to be played in Croke Park on January 15."

Stupid I'd agree as little or no break for lads playing in those club game and then going on to play in NFL with their counties.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on October 05, 2022, 09:15:28 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on October 04, 2022, 09:51:01 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 04, 2022, 09:46:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 04, 2022, 10:54:32 AM
Some changes to AI Club Championships dates.
Full list at end of article

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40975232.html

I think it's stupid to move the finals to January.

Finals was pencilled in for January its semi finals thats changed "The original dates for the football semi-finals had been December 10/11 but they are now set to take place on January 7/8. The All-Ireland senior finals as per the GAA's 2022-23 master fixtures were due to be played in Croke Park on January 15."

Stupid I'd agree as little or no break for lads playing in those club game and then going on to play in NFL with their counties.

Just go back to the the original dates ffs... They have ruined my St Paddy's day  :'(  As I've no real excuse to hit the club!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on December 08, 2022, 06:47:51 PM
https://www.hoganstand.com/Article/Index/325981
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on December 13, 2022, 10:22:20 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/kilkenny-legend-jackie-tyrrell-hails-split-season-as-raving-success-42215047.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 13, 2022, 06:00:27 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2022, 10:22:20 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/kilkenny-legend-jackie-tyrrell-hails-split-season-as-raving-success-42215047.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SwDo0ecEk8
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: joemamas on December 14, 2022, 04:26:13 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 13, 2022, 10:22:20 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/kilkenny-legend-jackie-tyrrell-hails-split-season-as-raving-success-42215047.html

Hailed more by the FAI and the IRFU, and whoever profits from the increased viewership and hype of the premier league across Ireland for the entire month of August.
so stupid, By July 2nd 2023 there will only be four intercounty teams left in the football Championship.
Move it back to last Sunday or Second last Sunday in August.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on December 16, 2022, 12:44:19 PM
Away and shite

When those 4 counties are preparing for an AIF, approx 2000 clubs will be gearing up for and beginning their club championships

There are those out there for whom the first GAA face they see every week is Joanne Cantwell's, and with all due respect to those people, they shouldn't be given priority over the grass roots members and players

I feel that GAA people will follow GAA regardless

I present this board as my evidence

Currently, there's a World Cup going on and the egg ballers have just finished a very successful Autumn International series

The Ulster Club Football Championship thread somehow still managed to generate 70 pages of discussion

So even when the other 'rival' sports are presenting some of their showcase events, and the great county teams of Ireland are hardly even training, never mind playing, the GAA is still a draw for people
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 01:40:09 PM
The earlier championship is a culture war.
It's a long stretch to Christmas from the end of July .
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on December 16, 2022, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 01:40:09 PM
The earlier championship is a culture war.
It's a long stretch to Christmas from the end of July .
Club football.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on December 16, 2022, 02:00:13 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2022, 12:44:19 PM
Away and shite

When those 4 counties are preparing for an AIF, approx 2000 clubs will be gearing up for and beginning their club championships

There are those out there for whom the first GAA face they see every week is Joanne Cantwell's, and with all due respect to those people, they shouldn't be given priority over the grass roots members and players

I feel that GAA people will follow GAA regardless

I present this board as my evidence

Currently, there's a World Cup going on and the egg ballers have just finished a very successful Autumn International series

The Ulster Club Football Championship thread somehow still managed to generate 70 pages of discussion

So even when the other 'rival' sports are presenting some of their showcase events, and the great county teams of Ireland are hardly even training, never mind playing, the GAA is still a draw for people
This x1000
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 16, 2022, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 01:40:09 PM
The earlier championship is a culture war.
It's a long stretch to Christmas from the end of July .
Club football.
It's not everyone's cup of tea. I do like listening to club matches on Raidio na Gaeltachta but it will never be the same as the county in an all Ireland final.
The club won 3 all Irelands but I would remember those years in terms of how well the county did.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on December 16, 2022, 03:08:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 16, 2022, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 01:40:09 PM
The earlier championship is a culture war.
It's a long stretch to Christmas from the end of July .
Club football.
It's not everyone's cup of tea. I do like listening to club matches on Raidio na Gaeltachta but it will never be the same as the county in an all Ireland final.
The club won 3 all Irelands but I would remember those years in terms of how well the county did.

Then I would respectfully say that the likes of you should be well down the queue when it comes to prioritising the needs of those who follow the GAA.

There are plenty of counties who've never even been in an All Ireland final - so members and players in those counties wouldn't even be able to comprehend what you are talking about

They shouldn't be sacrificed in order to appease armchair 'supporters'.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 03:42:17 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2022, 03:08:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 16, 2022, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 01:40:09 PM
The earlier championship is a culture war.
It's a long stretch to Christmas from the end of July .
Club football.
It's not everyone's cup of tea. I do like listening to club matches on Raidio na Gaeltachta but it will never be the same as the county in an all Ireland final.
The club won 3 all Irelands but I would remember those years in terms of how well the county did.

Then I would respectfully say that the likes of you should be well down the queue when it comes to prioritising the needs of those who follow the GAA.

There are plenty of counties who've never even been in an All Ireland final - so members and players in those counties wouldn't even be able to comprehend what you are talking about

They shouldn't be sacrificed in order to appease armchair 'supporters'.
People who follow county teams are not armchair supporters.
Where do you think the GAA's money comes from ?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: smort on December 16, 2022, 03:46:06 PM
I never really get why people follow the county team before their club. There are a couple of in my own club who go to every county game going but wouldn't attend any club games or event

I'd say these people make up a tiny minority of gaa supporters
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: clonadmad on December 16, 2022, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 16, 2022, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 01:40:09 PM
The earlier championship is a culture war.
It's a long stretch to Christmas from the end of July .
Club football.
It's not everyone's cup of tea. I do like listening to club matches on Raidio na Gaeltachta but it will never be the same as the county in an all Ireland final.
The club won 3 all Irelands but I would remember those years in terms of how well the county did.

So your club has won 3 Club All Ireland's and you remember those years in terms of how well the county did.

Sweet Jesus
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on December 16, 2022, 05:58:12 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2022, 12:44:19 PM
Away and shite

When those 4 counties are preparing for an AIF, approx 2000 clubs will be gearing up for and beginning their club championships

There are those out there for whom the first GAA face they see every week is Joanne Cantwell's, and with all due respect to those people, they shouldn't be given priority over the grass roots members and players

I feel that GAA people will follow GAA regardless

I present this board as my evidence

Currently, there's a World Cup going on and the egg ballers have just finished a very successful Autumn International series

The Ulster Club Football Championship thread somehow still managed to generate 70 pages of discussion

So even when the other 'rival' sports are presenting some of their showcase events, and the great county teams of Ireland are hardly even training, never mind playing, the GAA is still a draw for people

Mostly group stages of the club championship and a lot of club players opted for the overseas adventure than play in those early rounds.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 06:21:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on December 16, 2022, 05:48:38 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 16, 2022, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 01:40:09 PM
The earlier championship is a culture war.
It's a long stretch to Christmas from the end of July .
Club football.
It's not everyone's cup of tea. I do like listening to club matches on Raidio na Gaeltachta but it will never be the same as the county in an all Ireland final.
The club won 3 all Irelands but I would remember those years in terms of how well the county did.
So your club has won 3 Club All Ireland's and you remember those years in terms of how well the county did.

Sweet Jesus
I'm not from Laois. Between 1992 and 2015 Galway hurling clubs won 12 all Irelands. Between 1992 and now the county won 1 . An rud is annamh is iontach.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: AustinPowers on December 16, 2022, 06:57:44 PM
Quote from: smort on December 16, 2022, 03:46:06 PM
I never really get why people follow the county team before their club. There are a couple of in my own club who go to every county game going but wouldn't attend any club games or event

I'd say these people make up a tiny minority of gaa supporters

Maybe  people who looked for  tickets for Garth Brooks should have have proven  they attended a certain number of smaller  country music concerts in the likes of  Castleblayney,  Athlone or Bundoran , before being allowed entry to the big Garth Brooks match in Croke Park?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on December 16, 2022, 09:26:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 03:42:17 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2022, 03:08:29 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 02:46:19 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 16, 2022, 01:59:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 16, 2022, 01:40:09 PM
The earlier championship is a culture war.
It's a long stretch to Christmas from the end of July .
Club football.
It's not everyone's cup of tea. I do like listening to club matches on Raidio na Gaeltachta but it will never be the same as the county in an all Ireland final.
The club won 3 all Irelands but I would remember those years in terms of how well the county did.

Then I would respectfully say that the likes of you should be well down the queue when it comes to prioritising the needs of those who follow the GAA.

There are plenty of counties who've never even been in an All Ireland final - so members and players in those counties wouldn't even be able to comprehend what you are talking about

They shouldn't be sacrificed in order to appease armchair 'supporters'.
People who follow county teams are not armchair supporters.
Where do you think the GAA's money comes from ?

I'm sorry, but that's exactly what they are.

The funding provided by the "4 county games a year" brigade would be fairly negligible.

And although somewhat intangible, it absolutely pales in comparison to the contributions to the association of the thousands of club players and volunteers.

So my advice to you would be to take your money and watch Man Utd and Leinster all you like.  Don't kid yourself - the association will be absolutely fine without you.

It'll probably be a help actually, as when the big games roll round, some of those deserving folks will be better able to get a ticket.

You and the other armchair lads will love Old Trafford.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on December 16, 2022, 10:22:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2022, 09:26:59 PM


I'm sorry, but that's exactly what they are.

The funding provided by the "4 county games a year" brigade would be fairly negligible.

And although somewhat intangible, it absolutely pales in comparison to the contributions to the association of the thousands of club players and volunteers.

So my advice to you would be to take your money and watch Man Utd and Leinster all you like.  Don't kid yourself - the association will be absolutely fine without you.

It'll probably be a help actually, as when the big games roll round, some of those deserving folks will be better able to get a ticket.

You and the other armchair lads will love Old Trafford.

I used to be all snobby about the value of people to the GAA. I hated sunshine supporters, people who went to club finals, went to intercounty games only, but had no involvement or interest in the local club. I hated to see them (what i thought) undeserving of tickets etc. But there is no magic formula for fairness. And that goes down many levels in any club.

You see many people in an area drift in and out of the local GAA club. They drift in as a underage player, Senior Player, Mentor/coach, Parent and sometimes as a supporter. Most are only passing through when things are relevant for them . Every club have a core of Families who run the club. I know our local club has 7 or 8 families that are steeped in the club. They hold the power in the club and influence the standing of their children and grand children in the club. Blow-ins may join their inner circle for a while. But they move on as their connect to the club lessens.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2022, 10:27:29 AM
I think you'll find the 3 or 4 big County games a year people make a good sized € to GAA coffers.
100,000 of them to 3 bigger games @say €30 average is €9m.
It's the hoors who sit at home and want every County game on free TV that get my goat. They're usually the same ones who'll be spouting about the "Grab All Association " etc.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2022, 11:06:22 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 16, 2022, 10:22:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2022, 09:26:59 PM


I'm sorry, but that's exactly what they are.

The funding provided by the "4 county games a year" brigade would be fairly negligible.

And although somewhat intangible, it absolutely pales in comparison to the contributions to the association of the thousands of club players and volunteers.

So my advice to you would be to take your money and watch Man Utd and Leinster all you like.  Don't kid yourself - the association will be absolutely fine without you.

It'll probably be a help actually, as when the big games roll round, some of those deserving folks will be better able to get a ticket.

You and the other armchair lads will love Old Trafford.

I used to be all snobby about the value of people to the GAA. I hated sunshine supporters, people who went to club finals, went to intercounty games only, but had no involvement or interest in the local club. I hated to see them (what i thought) undeserving of tickets etc. But there is no magic formula for fairness. And that goes down many levels in any club.

You see many people in an area drift in and out of the local GAA club. They drift in as a underage player, Senior Player, Mentor/coach, Parent and sometimes as a supporter. Most are only passing through when things are relevant for them . Every club have a core of Families who run the club. I know our local club has 7 or 8 families that are steeped in the club. They hold the power in the club and influence the standing of their children and grand children in the club. Blow-ins may join their inner circle for a while. But they move on as their connect to the club lessens.
The fortunes of clubs ebb and flow. Ballygunner got relegated in the 80s. Dunmore are intermediate. My club and Portumna are senior B. Teams come and go.
It's the same at county level. I remember when Longford beat Mayo. People will tend to follow success .
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on December 17, 2022, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2022, 11:06:22 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 16, 2022, 10:22:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2022, 09:26:59 PM


I'm sorry, but that's exactly what they are.

The funding provided by the "4 county games a year" brigade would be fairly negligible.

And although somewhat intangible, it absolutely pales in comparison to the contributions to the association of the thousands of club players and volunteers.

So my advice to you would be to take your money and watch Man Utd and Leinster all you like.  Don't kid yourself - the association will be absolutely fine without you.

It'll probably be a help actually, as when the big games roll round, some of those deserving folks will be better able to get a ticket.

You and the other armchair lads will love Old Trafford.

I used to be all snobby about the value of people to the GAA. I hated sunshine supporters, people who went to club finals, went to intercounty games only, but had no involvement or interest in the local club. I hated to see them (what i thought) undeserving of tickets etc. But there is no magic formula for fairness. And that goes down many levels in any club.

You see many people in an area drift in and out of the local GAA club. They drift in as a underage player, Senior Player, Mentor/coach, Parent and sometimes as a supporter. Most are only passing through when things are relevant for them . Every club have a core of Families who run the club. I know our local club has 7 or 8 families that are steeped in the club. They hold the power in the club and influence the standing of their children and grand children in the club. Blow-ins may join their inner circle for a while. But they move on as their connect to the club lessens.
The fortunes of clubs ebb and flow. Ballygunner got relegated in the 80s. Dunmore are intermediate. My club and Portumna are senior B. Teams come and go.
It's the same at county level. I remember when Longford beat Mayo. People will tend to follow success .

It's not the same at county level. Not remotely.
A tiny village can win the all-Ireland club off the back of a generational player and a well timed supporting cast. As you say, they'll be back at their historic level again by the next generation. Caltra are an example from your own county.
A generational player isn't going to do that at county level. The gap is too wide. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 17, 2022, 02:30:20 PM
Quote from: shark on December 17, 2022, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2022, 11:06:22 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 16, 2022, 10:22:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2022, 09:26:59 PM


I'm sorry, but that's exactly what they are.

The funding provided by the "4 county games a year" brigade would be fairly negligible.

And although somewhat intangible, it absolutely pales in comparison to the contributions to the association of the thousands of club players and volunteers.

So my advice to you would be to take your money and watch Man Utd and Leinster all you like.  Don't kid yourself - the association will be absolutely fine without you.

It'll probably be a help actually, as when the big games roll round, some of those deserving folks will be better able to get a ticket.

You and the other armchair lads will love Old Trafford.

I used to be all snobby about the value of people to the GAA. I hated sunshine supporters, people who went to club finals, went to intercounty games only, but had no involvement or interest in the local club. I hated to see them (what i thought) undeserving of tickets etc. But there is no magic formula for fairness. And that goes down many levels in any club.

You see many people in an area drift in and out of the local GAA club. They drift in as a underage player, Senior Player, Mentor/coach, Parent and sometimes as a supporter. Most are only passing through when things are relevant for them . Every club have a core of Families who run the club. I know our local club has 7 or 8 families that are steeped in the club. They hold the power in the club and influence the standing of their children and grand children in the club. Blow-ins may join their inner circle for a while. But they move on as their connect to the club lessens.
The fortunes of clubs ebb and flow. Ballygunner got relegated in the 80s. Dunmore are intermediate. My club and Portumna are senior B. Teams come and go.
It's the same at county level. I remember when Longford beat Mayo. People will tend to follow success .

It's not the same at county level. Not remotely.
A tiny village can win the all-Ireland club off the back of a generational player and a well timed supporting cast. As you say, they'll be back at their historic level again by the next generation. Caltra are an example from your own county.
A generational player isn't going to do that at county level. The gap is too wide.
Club is about how good your weakest players are.
County needs fruiting plantations in several parishes simultaneously eg Offaly hurlers in the 90s. Plus some dirt. And belief.

But teams do ebb and flow at county level too. It happens in all sports imo.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on December 17, 2022, 02:51:33 PM
if inter county and club championships are played at same time  would that mean that there would be barely any national media coverage on club matches.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on December 17, 2022, 03:38:54 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 17, 2022, 02:51:33 PM
if inter county and club championships are played at same time  would that mean that there would be barely any national media coverage on club matches.
why would clubs play championship without their best players
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on December 17, 2022, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2022, 02:30:20 PM
Quote from: shark on December 17, 2022, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2022, 11:06:22 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 16, 2022, 10:22:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2022, 09:26:59 PM


I'm sorry, but that's exactly what they are.

The funding provided by the "4 county games a year" brigade would be fairly negligible.

And although somewhat intangible, it absolutely pales in comparison to the contributions to the association of the thousands of club players and volunteers.

So my advice to you would be to take your money and watch Man Utd and Leinster all you like.  Don't kid yourself - the association will be absolutely fine without you.

It'll probably be a help actually, as when the big games roll round, some of those deserving folks will be better able to get a ticket.

You and the other armchair lads will love Old Trafford.

I used to be all snobby about the value of people to the GAA. I hated sunshine supporters, people who went to club finals, went to intercounty games only, but had no involvement or interest in the local club. I hated to see them (what i thought) undeserving of tickets etc. But there is no magic formula for fairness. And that goes down many levels in any club.

You see many people in an area drift in and out of the local GAA club. They drift in as a underage player, Senior Player, Mentor/coach, Parent and sometimes as a supporter. Most are only passing through when things are relevant for them . Every club have a core of Families who run the club. I know our local club has 7 or 8 families that are steeped in the club. They hold the power in the club and influence the standing of their children and grand children in the club. Blow-ins may join their inner circle for a while. But they move on as their connect to the club lessens.
The fortunes of clubs ebb and flow. Ballygunner got relegated in the 80s. Dunmore are intermediate. My club and Portumna are senior B. Teams come and go.
It's the same at county level. I remember when Longford beat Mayo. People will tend to follow success .

It's not the same at county level. Not remotely.
A tiny village can win the all-Ireland club off the back of a generational player and a well timed supporting cast. As you say, they'll be back at their historic level again by the next generation. Caltra are an example from your own county.
A generational player isn't going to do that at county level. The gap is too wide.
Club is about how good your weakest players are.
County needs fruiting plantations in several parishes simultaneously eg Offaly hurlers in the 90s. Plus some dirt. And belief.

But teams do ebb and flow at county level too. It happens in all sports imo.

Club is absolutely not about how good your weakest players are. And that's what makes it different. There have been many all-Ireland club winners who have carried lads who wouldn't get in an assess roar of a well balanced club team like Crokes or Ballyhale. You can win in different ways.
Team don't ebb and flow at county level in anywhere close to the same level. There are counties that have never been anywhere close to the top, and there are counties that have never been away from it.
Club level - take your own county again. The 5 football clubs with the most championships in Galway. Only 1 of them has won a championship in the past 25 years. That's ebb and flow. Now do Kerry and Dublin. Yaaawn.
Also "Dirt and Belief"? Try money. I've been involved in 2 intercounty senior setups in the not so distant past. One with money , one without. The difference was ridiculous. They may as well be playing different sports.
The club game beats it every day of the week.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on December 17, 2022, 05:30:46 PM

ive seen people say club and inter county should play at same time makes no sense too me
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: blasmere on December 17, 2022, 06:34:53 PM
There is still an element of ebb and flow at county level. Take Tyrone's first 3 All Irelands, that was an exceptional group of players that hasn't been repeated since for them despite last year. Same with Armagh too. The money helps but you need the players too and population is much more of a factor at county level obviously.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on December 17, 2022, 08:04:04 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2022, 10:27:29 AM
I think you'll find the 3 or 4 big County games a year people make a good sized € to GAA coffers.
100,000 of them to 3 bigger games @say €30 average is €9m.
It's the hoors who sit at home and want every County game on free TV that get my goat. They're usually the same ones who'll be spouting about the "Grab All Association " etc.

You're making 2 erroneous assumptions here;

1.  Everyone that attends county games is a seafoid type armchair man

2.  If the seafoids of this world stayed at home, nobody else would replace them

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on December 17, 2022, 08:50:59 PM
Didn't make any assumptions,  merely pointed out that a certain cohort pay around €9m in admission fees to County games.
Never said they were the only types who go to County games.
I'll let Seaf answer your characterisations if him
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on December 18, 2022, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2022, 08:50:59 PM
Didn't make any assumptions,  merely pointed out that a certain cohort pay around €9m in admission fees to County games.
Never said they were the only types who go to County games.
I'll let Seaf answer your characterisations if him

That's exactly what I'm saying.

There is no 'certain cohort' who contribute this funding.

This comes from across the entire spectrum of the GAA.

Seafoid and his 'cohort' only make up a small percentage of that
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 18, 2022, 06:18:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2022, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2022, 08:50:59 PM
Didn't make any assumptions,  merely pointed out that a certain cohort pay around €9m in admission fees to County games.
Never said they were the only types who go to County games.
I'll let Seaf answer your characterisations if him

That's exactly what I'm saying.

There is no 'certain cohort' who contribute this funding.

This comes from across the entire spectrum of the GAA.

Seafoid and his 'cohort' only make up a small percentage of that
Club does not generate the vast majority of the GAA's money, Franko. Get real.
I like club matches as much as anyone but don't pretend that it is something that it is not.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 18, 2022, 06:20:20 PM
Quote from: shark on December 17, 2022, 03:39:46 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2022, 02:30:20 PM
Quote from: shark on December 17, 2022, 01:22:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 17, 2022, 11:06:22 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 16, 2022, 10:22:03 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 16, 2022, 09:26:59 PM


I'm sorry, but that's exactly what they are.

The funding provided by the "4 county games a year" brigade would be fairly negligible.

And although somewhat intangible, it absolutely pales in comparison to the contributions to the association of the thousands of club players and volunteers.

So my advice to you would be to take your money and watch Man Utd and Leinster all you like.  Don't kid yourself - the association will be absolutely fine without you.

It'll probably be a help actually, as when the big games roll round, some of those deserving folks will be better able to get a ticket.

You and the other armchair lads will love Old Trafford.

I used to be all snobby about the value of people to the GAA. I hated sunshine supporters, people who went to club finals, went to intercounty games only, but had no involvement or interest in the local club. I hated to see them (what i thought) undeserving of tickets etc. But there is no magic formula for fairness. And that goes down many levels in any club.

You see many people in an area drift in and out of the local GAA club. They drift in as a underage player, Senior Player, Mentor/coach, Parent and sometimes as a supporter. Most are only passing through when things are relevant for them . Every club have a core of Families who run the club. I know our local club has 7 or 8 families that are steeped in the club. They hold the power in the club and influence the standing of their children and grand children in the club. Blow-ins may join their inner circle for a while. But they move on as their connect to the club lessens.
The fortunes of clubs ebb and flow. Ballygunner got relegated in the 80s. Dunmore are intermediate. My club and Portumna are senior B. Teams come and go.
It's the same at county level. I remember when Longford beat Mayo. People will tend to follow success .

It's not the same at county level. Not remotely.
A tiny village can win the all-Ireland club off the back of a generational player and a well timed supporting cast. As you say, they'll be back at their historic level again by the next generation. Caltra are an example from your own county.
A generational player isn't going to do that at county level. The gap is too wide.
Club is about how good your weakest players are.
County needs fruiting plantations in several parishes simultaneously eg Offaly hurlers in the 90s. Plus some dirt. And belief.

But teams do ebb and flow at county level too. It happens in all sports imo.

Club is absolutely not about how good your weakest players are. And that's what makes it different. There have been many all-Ireland club winners who have carried lads who wouldn't get in an assess roar of a well balanced club team like Crokes or Ballyhale. You can win in different ways.
Team don't ebb and flow at county level in anywhere close to the same level. There are counties that have never been anywhere close to the top, and there are counties that have never been away from it.
Club level - take your own county again. The 5 football clubs with the most championships in Galway. Only 1 of them has won a championship in the past 25 years. That's ebb and flow. Now do Kerry and Dublin. Yaaawn.
Also "Dirt and Belief"? Try money. I've been involved in 2 intercounty senior setups in the not so distant past. One with money , one without. The difference was ridiculous. They may as well be playing different sports.
The club game beats it every day of the week.
At all Ireland level it is about weaknesses, imo. County players can't do everything.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on December 20, 2022, 09:32:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 18, 2022, 06:18:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2022, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2022, 08:50:59 PM
Didn't make any assumptions,  merely pointed out that a certain cohort pay around €9m in admission fees to County games.
Never said they were the only types who go to County games.
I'll let Seaf answer your characterisations if him

That's exactly what I'm saying.

There is no 'certain cohort' who contribute this funding.

This comes from across the entire spectrum of the GAA.

Seafoid and his 'cohort' only make up a small percentage of that
Club does not generate the vast majority of the GAA's money, Franko. Get real.
I like club matches as much as anyone but don't pretend that it is something that it is not.

I didn't say that?**

What I said was that you are assuming that everyone who attends county matches is someone like yourself - ie. someone who couldn't give 2 fecks about the club

That's just not true.

Your 'cohort' is only a small percentage of that.


**Although I would point out that my own club costs about £140k p/a to run.  Almost all of this is raised through local fundraising, with only a tiny proportion (usually big capital outlays) being funded from central coffers.

Now, we are by no means a huge club, but we have good facilities, which we own ourselves.

But if we are to lowball it and say that it costs on average £50k to run a GAA club for a year

There are about 2000 clubs

There's £100million to start with
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on December 20, 2022, 11:05:46 AM
I'd say most County boards main source of revenue (barring Dublin maybe) would be gate revenue from their club championships which then funds their county squads, no?

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 20, 2022, 11:11:18 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 20, 2022, 09:32:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 18, 2022, 06:18:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2022, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2022, 08:50:59 PM
Didn't make any assumptions,  merely pointed out that a certain cohort pay around €9m in admission fees to County games.
Never said they were the only types who go to County games.
I'll let Seaf answer your characterisations if him

That's exactly what I'm saying.

There is no 'certain cohort' who contribute this funding.

This comes from across the entire spectrum of the GAA.

Seafoid and his 'cohort' only make up a small percentage of that
Club does not generate the vast majority of the GAA's money, Franko. Get real.
I like club matches as much as anyone but don't pretend that it is something that it is not.

I didn't say that?**

What I said was that you are assuming that everyone who attends county matches is someone like yourself - ie. someone who couldn't give 2 fecks about the club

That's just not true.

Your 'cohort' is only a small percentage of that.


**Although I would point out that my own club costs about £140k p/a to run.  Almost all of this is raised through local fundraising, with only a tiny proportion (usually big capital outlays) being funded from central coffers.

Now, we are by no means a huge club, but we have good facilities, which we own ourselves.

But if we are to lowball it and say that it costs on average £50k to run a GAA club for a year

There are about 2000 clubs

There's £100million to start with
You would have to start with a distribution of where clubs are at and work from there.
Say there are 500 clubs in Ulster. Less than 50 are competitive and spending serious money.  You can't assume the same  level of spending for all clubs. Or even for clubs by county.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: trueblue1234 on December 20, 2022, 11:18:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2022, 11:11:18 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 20, 2022, 09:32:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 18, 2022, 06:18:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2022, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2022, 08:50:59 PM
Didn't make any assumptions,  merely pointed out that a certain cohort pay around €9m in admission fees to County games.
Never said they were the only types who go to County games.
I'll let Seaf answer your characterisations if him

That's exactly what I'm saying.

There is no 'certain cohort' who contribute this funding.

This comes from across the entire spectrum of the GAA.

Seafoid and his 'cohort' only make up a small percentage of that
Club does not generate the vast majority of the GAA's money, Franko. Get real.
I like club matches as much as anyone but don't pretend that it is something that it is not.

I didn't say that?**

What I said was that you are assuming that everyone who attends county matches is someone like yourself - ie. someone who couldn't give 2 fecks about the club

That's just not true.

Your 'cohort' is only a small percentage of that.


**Although I would point out that my own club costs about £140k p/a to run.  Almost all of this is raised through local fundraising, with only a tiny proportion (usually big capital outlays) being funded from central coffers.

Now, we are by no means a huge club, but we have good facilities, which we own ourselves.

But if we are to lowball it and say that it costs on average £50k to run a GAA club for a year

There are about 2000 clubs

There's £100million to start with
You would have to start with a distribution of where clubs are at and work from there.
Say there are 500 clubs in Ulster. Less than 50 are competitive and spending serious money.  You can't assume the same  level of spending for all clubs. Or even for clubs by county.

We're a small rural div 3 club in Tyrone. Our spend hasn't been under £100k in years. The costs of keeping a club open at the minute are astronomical. I'd be surprised if any club operated with a spend of under £50k tbh. I'd imagine the average is much higher.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on December 20, 2022, 11:58:59 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 20, 2022, 11:11:18 AM
Quote from: Franko on December 20, 2022, 09:32:47 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 18, 2022, 06:18:34 PM
Quote from: Franko on December 18, 2022, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 17, 2022, 08:50:59 PM
Didn't make any assumptions,  merely pointed out that a certain cohort pay around €9m in admission fees to County games.
Never said they were the only types who go to County games.
I'll let Seaf answer your characterisations if him

That's exactly what I'm saying.

There is no 'certain cohort' who contribute this funding.

This comes from across the entire spectrum of the GAA.

Seafoid and his 'cohort' only make up a small percentage of that
Club does not generate the vast majority of the GAA's money, Franko. Get real.
I like club matches as much as anyone but don't pretend that it is something that it is not.

I didn't say that?**

What I said was that you are assuming that everyone who attends county matches is someone like yourself - ie. someone who couldn't give 2 fecks about the club

That's just not true.

Your 'cohort' is only a small percentage of that.


**Although I would point out that my own club costs about £140k p/a to run.  Almost all of this is raised through local fundraising, with only a tiny proportion (usually big capital outlays) being funded from central coffers.

Now, we are by no means a huge club, but we have good facilities, which we own ourselves.

But if we are to lowball it and say that it costs on average £50k to run a GAA club for a year

There are about 2000 clubs

There's £100million to start with
You would have to start with a distribution of where clubs are at and work from there.
Say there are 500 clubs in Ulster. Less than 50 are competitive and spending serious money.  You can't assume the same  level of spending for all clubs. Or even for clubs by county.

I didn't assume the same level of spending for all clubs.

I assumed an average value, which I set at 35% of the known cost of running our own club - which I will repeat is not a big club (rural community of <1000 people)

We could go lower again if you want

If we said 25% and a figure of £35k per year

We are still at £70 million.

Your £9million gate receipts are starting to look like chicken feed as Boris once said
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on December 20, 2022, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 20, 2022, 11:05:46 AM
I'd say most County boards main source of revenue (barring Dublin maybe) would be gate revenue from their club championships which then funds their county squads, no?
Would be a whole pile put in from sponsors, I don't think championship ticket sales would cover it these days.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on December 20, 2022, 12:47:52 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 20, 2022, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 20, 2022, 11:05:46 AM
I'd say most County boards main source of revenue (barring Dublin maybe) would be gate revenue from their club championships which then funds their county squads, no?
Would be a whole pile put in from sponsors, I don't think championship ticket sales would cover it these days.
Galway get pretty large receipts from Ckub Championship - mainly hurling I'd suspect.
Ros CB would only get around 10% - 15% of its income from club championship games.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on December 20, 2022, 04:55:41 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 20, 2022, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 20, 2022, 11:05:46 AM
I'd say most County boards main source of revenue (barring Dublin maybe) would be gate revenue from their club championships which then funds their county squads, no?
Would be a whole pile put in from sponsors, I don't think championship ticket sales would cover it these days.

Do Armagh not go for the round robin/backdoor like a lot of other counties?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on December 20, 2022, 06:06:41 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 20, 2022, 04:55:41 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on December 20, 2022, 12:39:54 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on December 20, 2022, 11:05:46 AM
I'd say most County boards main source of revenue (barring Dublin maybe) would be gate revenue from their club championships which then funds their county squads, no?
Would be a whole pile put in from sponsors, I don't think championship ticket sales would cover it these days.

Do Armagh not go for the round robin/backdoor like a lot of other counties?
used to be first round losers got a second chance with a back door game then knock out from second round on, then for a year or two there were group games with 4 in a group and the top 3 getting through. In 2020 there was straight knockout due to time constraints with covid and been knockout ever since, for the better imo
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2022, 09:39:39 AM
The club fuball final is on in late January, apparently.

Kerry won the all Ireland on 24 July. The county all Ireland was run off in 3 months.
The club shenanigan takes twice as long.

Perhaps club championships across the counties may have to be standardised.
Otherwise there may have to be some overlap in the holy early club stages. They don't care about club in Kerry anyway.

Everything should be tied up by Christmas.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on December 21, 2022, 10:11:11 AM
Agreed, everything should be tied up by Christmas.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: AustinPowers on December 21, 2022, 10:14:07 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2022, 09:39:39 AM
The club fuball final is on in late January, apparently.

Kerry won the all Ireland on 24 July. The county all Ireland was run off in 3 months.
The club shenanigan takes twice as long.

Perhaps club championships across the counties may have to be standardised.
Otherwise there may have to be some overlap in the holy early club stages. They don't care about club in Kerry anyway.

Everything should be tied up by Christmas.

Then we'd end up with  two All Ireland club winners in the same year.  That would just mess up the record books  and cause countless arguments at pub quizzes

You clearly haven't  thought this through
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on December 21, 2022, 10:26:01 AM
The 2020 Minor Final was played in Summer 2021!
Anyway I don't see the big deal of Club Finals in January.
It involves 12 Clubs out of around 2,200
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2022, 10:33:05 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 21, 2022, 10:14:07 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2022, 09:39:39 AM
The club fuball final is on in late January, apparently.

Kerry won the all Ireland on 24 July. The county all Ireland was run off in 3 months.
The club shenanigan takes twice as long.

Perhaps club championships across the counties may have to be standardised.
Otherwise there may have to be some overlap in the holy early club stages. They don't care about club in Kerry anyway.

Everything should be tied up by Christmas.

Then we'd end up with  two All Ireland club winners in the same year.  That would just mess up the record books  and cause countless arguments at pub quizzes

You clearly haven't  thought this through
It's the price of sanity.
The ESRI report is driving the institutional response.

The poor hoors left at the semifinal stage in the football will be training for another month.
The GAA did not think this through. Would you shtop.

Club finalists will have SFA time to rest before the League starts on 2 Feb.
Pressure on intercounty players has been shifted to the club elite.

5 months should be enough to run the club process.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on December 21, 2022, 10:38:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2022, 10:33:05 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on December 21, 2022, 10:14:07 AM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2022, 09:39:39 AM
The club fuball final is on in late January, apparently.

Kerry won the all Ireland on 24 July. The county all Ireland was run off in 3 months.
The club shenanigan takes twice as long.

Perhaps club championships across the counties may have to be standardised.
Otherwise there may have to be some overlap in the holy early club stages. They don't care about club in Kerry anyway.

Everything should be tied up by Christmas.

Then we'd end up with  two All Ireland club winners in the same year.  That would just mess up the record books  and cause countless arguments at pub quizzes

You clearly haven't  thought this through
It's the price of sanity.
The ESRI report is driving the institutional response.

The poor hoors left at the semifinal stage in the football will be training for another month.
The GAA did not think this through. Would you shtop.

Club finalists will have SFA time to rest before the League starts on 2 Feb.
Pressure on intercounty players has been shifted to the club elite.

5 months should be enough to run the club process.
You're right. No reason that most clubs can't start their championship towards the end of July and at the very least all championships should be done by early October.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on December 21, 2022, 10:56:13 AM
in the future are they looking at having the club finals before christmas.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 21, 2022, 10:57:37 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 21, 2022, 10:56:13 AM
in the future are they looking at having the club finals before christmas.
I don't think counties were ready for this season. Everything was rushed.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on December 22, 2022, 12:29:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on December 21, 2022, 09:39:39 AM
The club fuball final is on in late January, apparently.

Kerry won the all Ireland on 24 July. The county all Ireland was run off in 3 months.
The club shenanigan takes twice as long.

Perhaps club championships across the counties may have to be standardised.
Otherwise there may have to be some overlap in the holy early club stages. They don't care about club in Kerry anyway.

Everything should be tied up by Christmas.

Agreed
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2022, 12:43:06 PM
I think (just my opinion) having 4 clubs extend their club involvement on the biggest stage at the end of Feb or start of March and then playing on Paddy's day is the pinnacle of a clubs life is ok.

I know there are downsides relating to county set ups and costs to clubs for extended training and so on, none of those clubs involved would ever complain though, personally I feel its taken some of the shine off having them rushed in before xmas for the neutral, as I've said the clubs that get there don't really care I suppose, but it was a good tradition to have.

I'm sure CB1 would agree
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: yellowcard on December 22, 2022, 12:55:54 PM
The club season should be finished up in the calendar year imo. The old system whereby it took 3 months to play the remaining 3 games (AI semi finals and final) was from a bygone era. Rather than have it finish in January, it would be much better if the GAA could wrap it up within the calendar year. Play the AI finals over the Christmas period and it would generate loads of interest across the country. The onus is on individual county boards to get their house in order and have a properly structured championship that completes by end of September/mid October at the very latest. With the split season that is perfectly reasonable to expect.   
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2022, 01:06:19 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on December 22, 2022, 12:55:54 PM
The club season should be finished up in the calendar year imo. The old system whereby it took 3 months to play the remaining 3 games (AI semi finals and final) was from a bygone era. Rather than have it finish in January, it would be much better if the GAA could wrap it up within the calendar year. Play the AI finals over the Christmas period and it would generate loads of interest across the country. The onus is on individual county boards to get their house in order and have a properly structured championship that completes by end of September/mid October at the very latest. With the split season that is perfectly reasonable to expect.

I'm not that old (50) but if you were not heading down to watch a club form your county or lucky enough to watch your own then the Paddy's day finals at the club or Croke were great days craic..

Yes the counties should be looking at restructuring it better but getting training conditions and pitches and so on is very difficult with the weather.. be different if we had indoor full size facilities which could run off these games if the outside weather conditions meant you don't have re-fix games
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: yellowcard on December 22, 2022, 01:27:01 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2022, 01:06:19 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on December 22, 2022, 12:55:54 PM
The club season should be finished up in the calendar year imo. The old system whereby it took 3 months to play the remaining 3 games (AI semi finals and final) was from a bygone era. Rather than have it finish in January, it would be much better if the GAA could wrap it up within the calendar year. Play the AI finals over the Christmas period and it would generate loads of interest across the country. The onus is on individual county boards to get their house in order and have a properly structured championship that completes by end of September/mid October at the very latest. With the split season that is perfectly reasonable to expect.

I'm not that old (50) but if you were not heading down to watch a club form your county or lucky enough to watch your own then the Paddy's day finals at the club or Croke were great days craic..

Yes the counties should be looking at restructuring it better but getting training conditions and pitches and so on is very difficult with the weather.. be different if we had indoor full size facilities which could run off these games if the outside weather conditions meant you don't have re-fix games

I can understand the rationale behind wanting to play the game on St Patricks day from the casual viewers standpoint. Even from a players point of view you might attach an extra importance if you lifted the trophy on St Patricks day (although I doubt very much if Kilcoo for example think that it devalues their AI title) but there is also likely a lot of nostalgia involved. From a purely rational point of view, if you had a blank canvas and were setting out a fixture list from scratch, then the 3 month gap between provincial finals and AI finals made no sense whatsoever. It was almost like beginning a new season for the clubs involved waiting around for 2 months before playing their semi final.   
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on December 22, 2022, 01:38:24 PM
I agree on the 3 months difference, its just that we don't have the weather to allow these games to be played on the rock hard frozen pitches or wet heavy pitches during that period, which can take the shine off it, both games on Croke on Sunday had handling issues, and that's the best surface out..

If county club finals were finished by mid/late September with games run off every week you could effectively have the finals by mid November (I think)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on December 22, 2022, 02:12:27 PM
Would some counties have to change to a straight knockout format  to get over quicker.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on December 22, 2022, 02:19:24 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on December 22, 2022, 02:12:27 PM
Would some counties have to change to a straight knockout format  to get over quicker.

They would just have to start at the earliest opportunity. Many counties delayed starting their championships because if they finished too early then their county champions would be sitting idle for too long. If the provincial championships are moved earlier then the counties will adjust. However an earlier draw would help. There can be a two week difference if your county champs avoid the preliminary round in province. This wasn't known in 2022 until after county championships dates had been set.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on December 22, 2022, 02:24:06 PM
If it was me id play the finals on st Stephens day and make it a tradition since they ditched st Patricks day or maybe the Saturday before Christmas every year(if Christmas is not on Sunday)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on December 22, 2022, 02:26:12 PM
Quote from: yellowcard on December 22, 2022, 12:55:54 PM
The club season should be finished up in the calendar year imo. The old system whereby it took 3 months to play the remaining 3 games (AI semi finals and final) was from a bygone era. Rather than have it finish in January, it would be much better if the GAA could wrap it up within the calendar year. Play the AI finals over the Christmas period and it would generate loads of interest across the country. The onus is on individual county boards to get their house in order and have a properly structured championship that completes by end of September/mid October at the very latest. With the split season that is perfectly reasonable to expect.

100% with this

The St Patrick's day tradition was great, but IMO it's a small price to pay to have a properly functioning split season

There's bound to be a way to schedule something so that there are some meaningful county games (League Finals?) played on St Patrick's day

Having the club finals on, for instance, the second Sunday in December would soon develop into a tradition of it's own (yes I know it doesn't have the same ring to it!)

It would give seafoid and his armchair buddies something to watch on the TV in a hitherto barren month for GAA
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on December 22, 2022, 03:06:07 PM
Fine big indoor pitch outside Ballyhaunis :)
A Finals weekend on the Saturday and Sunday before Christmas has a nice ring to it.

PS can we stop "running off" competitions, play them instead?.

PPS that Franko seems to  have it in for poor Seafóidín just because he's not fíorgaely enough !.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on December 22, 2022, 03:27:38 PM
Not really

Just trying to make him see the bigger picture

Watching Joe Canning stroking sidelines over the bar in a packed Croke Park is a special thing

But it's equally as special in July as it is in September

Especially when that change keeps onside the thousands of folks around the country who provide the backbone of the association

Cos if we don't have those people, then there's no Joe in the first place
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on December 22, 2022, 04:10:42 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on December 22, 2022, 03:06:07 PM
Fine big indoor pitch outside Ballyhaunis :)
A Finals weekend on the Saturday and Sunday before Christmas has a nice ring to it.

PS can we stop "running off" competitions, play them instead?.

PPS that Franko seems to  have it in for poor Seafóidín just because he's not fíorgaely enough !.
Tá sé seafóid  amach is amach.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2023, 10:44:09 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"Every player now, you can never relax fully. You need to be ticking over in the down season. I think that maintenance work is going to ramp up even more in the next couple of years because of the split-season."

Even now, as we head into the second year of the divided county-club calendar, the All-Ireland club finals will spill over into January 2024, with the result that players from those clubs usually end up missing league fixtures.

"I would like to see some definite down-time for all players," says Cheddar. "Even those last couple of weeks of the year. Everyone needs a break, even mentally.

"Take TJ Reid for example, one of the best hurlers of any generation, over the last few seasons he is playing well into the year with inter-county and then into the following year with his club Ballyhale.

"You probably have to have a bit of flexibility in year one but I would expect the GAA authorities to tighten up with that.
"I do think some counties do have to slim down to 12-team or 16-team championships to have them run off properly in a calendar season. I can understand the reasons why some counties have a Senior B championship but clear out all that rubbish, make it Senior, Intermediate and then Junior 1, Junior 2 etc.

"I think if all counties had that it would be much easier then to schedule games to make sure that your All-Ireland club championship is going to be held on the second Sunday in December."

"The championship needs to be a bit longer, it's compressed a little bit too much"

Plunkett, who will take charge of Kilkenny intermediate club St Martin's next year, thinks the new calendar model is a move in the right direction but is far from the finished article.

"I think the split-season has been quite successful but I certainly wouldn't jump into it for the next 10 years without giving it really good thought about all the aspects," he says. "Particularly how you're going to grow the game and keep it at the forefront for young people.

"Having it last year was really good because it gave us a sense of what it looks like. But what are we comparing that against? We would have to have, for example, a blended season or something to compare It with.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on January 08, 2023, 03:21:43 PM
So it looks like purgatory is over until August
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on January 16, 2023, 06:17:50 PM
Attention Franko


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/12/connacht-secretary-condemns-disgusting-responses-to-provincial-draw/
"Many commentators have commented on the fact that the GAA has lost a big promotional tool by having the All-Ireland finals finished in July. I would argue that we now have two big promotional tools available to us: one for first six months of intercounty season and the other for the second six months of the club season.
"There have been several weeks when local newspapers have carried up to 15 pages of reports of club championship games in a county. This is gaining a new and most important promotional tool for our association, at the most important level grassroots level."
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: mouview on January 16, 2023, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2023, 06:17:50 PM
Attention Franko


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/12/connacht-secretary-condemns-disgusting-responses-to-provincial-draw/
"Many commentators have commented on the fact that the GAA has lost a big promotional tool by having the All-Ireland finals finished in July. I would argue that we now have two big promotional tools available to us: one for first six months of intercounty season and the other for the second six months of the club season.
"There have been several weeks when local newspapers have carried up to 15 pages of reports of club championship games in a county. This is gaining a new and most important promotional tool for our association, at the most important level grassroots level."

The 'floating voter' has very little interest in club games however, and very few save the real diehards look forward to club matches at the weekend the way one would for big intercounty championship contests.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Owenmoresider on January 16, 2023, 08:16:52 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2023, 06:17:50 PM
Attention Franko


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/12/connacht-secretary-condemns-disgusting-responses-to-provincial-draw/
"Many commentators have commented on the fact that the GAA has lost a big promotional tool by having the All-Ireland finals finished in July. I would argue that we now have two big promotional tools available to us: one for first six months of intercounty season and the other for the second six months of the club season.
"There have been several weeks when local newspapers have carried up to 15 pages of reports of club championship games in a county. This is gaining a new and most important promotional tool for our association, at the most important level grassroots level."
He's obviously never read the Sligo papers so.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on January 17, 2023, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2023, 06:17:50 PM
Attention Franko


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/12/connacht-secretary-condemns-disgusting-responses-to-provincial-draw/
"Many commentators have commented on the fact that the GAA has lost a big promotional tool by having the All-Ireland finals finished in July. I would argue that we now have two big promotional tools available to us: one for first six months of intercounty season and the other for the second six months of the club season.
"There have been several weeks when local newspapers have carried up to 15 pages of reports of club championship games in a county. This is gaining a new and most important promotional tool for our association, at the most important level grassroots level."

The Connacht secretary is clearly a man with his priorities in the right order
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on January 17, 2023, 02:01:20 PM
Quote from: mouview on January 16, 2023, 08:03:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2023, 06:17:50 PM
Attention Franko


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/12/connacht-secretary-condemns-disgusting-responses-to-provincial-draw/
"Many commentators have commented on the fact that the GAA has lost a big promotional tool by having the All-Ireland finals finished in July. I would argue that we now have two big promotional tools available to us: one for first six months of intercounty season and the other for the second six months of the club season.
"There have been several weeks when local newspapers have carried up to 15 pages of reports of club championship games in a county. This is gaining a new and most important promotional tool for our association, at the most important level grassroots level."

The 'floating voter' has very little interest in club games however, and very few save the real diehards look forward to club matches at the weekend the way one would for big intercounty championship contests.

True statement, but the appeasing the 'floating voter' should be well down the list of priorities when compared to club players and supporters

Besides, Mr 'floating voter' has from the beginning of January until the end of July to fill his boots with county games

And if he's not interested after that... well that's disappointing... but hey ho
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on January 17, 2023, 03:16:44 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 17, 2023, 01:57:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 16, 2023, 06:17:50 PM
Attention Franko


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/12/connacht-secretary-condemns-disgusting-responses-to-provincial-draw/
"Many commentators have commented on the fact that the GAA has lost a big promotional tool by having the All-Ireland finals finished in July. I would argue that we now have two big promotional tools available to us: one for first six months of intercounty season and the other for the second six months of the club season.
"There have been several weeks when local newspapers have carried up to 15 pages of reports of club championship games in a county. This is gaining a new and most important promotional tool for our association, at the most important level grassroots level."

The Connacht secretary is clearly a man with his priorities in the right order
Good man Franko
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on January 30, 2023, 03:53:01 PM
I don't think this year's setup will be sustainable. They want more games and more exposure at the right level for counties but they aren't giving it enough time.
If you compare to 2018 there will be more games in considerably less time with no breaks. Players will be more likely to get injured and less likely to feature in the next game.

When the system was reformed last year the principles of the reforms were : raising the standard by providing more games at an appropriate level for all teams but especially developing counties; retaining positive aspects of the current system; avoiding dead rubbers, fitting the available footprint; retaining current opportunities to be a winner and give all teams a chance of winning Sam Maguire; be easy to understand and have public acceptance.

Everything has to be finished by 30 July.
The principles are most likely  incompatible with a 5 month club zone. There will have to be some sort of overlap and rationalisation and standardisation of county championships
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on January 30, 2023, 05:56:05 PM
Not only is there way more matches this year in the tight schedule. There is actually less than before on TV. TV matches should have been expanded, instead streaming has replaced Sky games and there is no increase in TV matches.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on February 06, 2023, 09:56:51 AM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0205/1353988-orourke-decries-abuse-of-players-over-scheduling/

Colm O'Rourke decries 'abuse of players' over Sigerson Cup scheduling
Updated / Monday, 6 Feb 2023 08:37

Colm O'Rourke says that something has to be done about what he deemed the "abuse of players" around the scheduling of the Sigerson Cup.

O'Rourke has had a positive start to his time in charge with back-to-back victories in Division 2 of the Allianz League, as they look to challenge favourites Dublin and Derry for promotion to the top flight.

But the Skryne man, who won a Sigerson as a player with UCD in the late 1970s, says the third level competition is having a negative impact on his squad's league campaign.

"The Sigerson Cup has dealt a heavy blow to our team," he said on RTÉ's Sunday Sport afterwards.

"Shane Walsh with a hamstring injury, Matt Costello having a hamstring injury, playing last Tuesday night after coming home from Cork - a long drive, a hard match, a very fast pitch - these are overuse injuries.

"This is disgraceful, the abuse of players with this Sigerson Cup. It needs to be put on at a different time of the year.

"We have six players tied up. They're not able to train with us at any of the time, and we had to take off Darragh Campion and Cathal Hickey today because we were concerned about the load on them.

"They played a match last Sunday, another game in Grangegorman on Wednesday night - which went to extra-time - and they were expecting to be playing today. Then they've a semi-final next week, so we took them off just purely for precautionary (reasons) because with two hamstring injuries it's a sign of overuse.

"I think it's absolutely disgraceful the way these players are being abused. Talk about player welfare; there's no player welfare in expecting lads to do that."



Pushed on when the Sigerson Cup could be played, he added: "It has to go into January, or else the league goes back two or three weeks in order to allow the Sigerson to be played.

"It is a great competition. I took part in it myself and won it with UCD but it was at a time when it never interfered with the county calendar.

"Now everybody is thrown into the month of February for everything. The second division is so important now because you can't be guaranteed a place in the All-Ireland unless you finish high up in the second division.

"So the stakes are very high for all the teams in the second division this year, much more than previously."
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on February 18, 2023, 03:35:58 PM
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41074592.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on March 03, 2023, 01:11:29 AM
. In total then, you have 15,000 people playing championship hurling and football in good weather and on good ground.

"If traditionalists had their way, there would be 52 people participating the All-Ireland Senior hurling final


Utterly disingenuous statement. He is saying that prior to the split season on the weekend of the all Ireland finals there were no other games taking place, that's nonsense. In my experience, there were no other matches, hurling or football scheduled for the same time as the marquee final, but those 2 or 3 hours apart the weekend was generally packed with championship action.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 03, 2023, 07:30:57 AM
It's going to be pure constipated football.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-FuUu4HIlo
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 03, 2023, 02:09:14 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/03/03/sam-skylight-or-tailteann-trapdoor-who-is-heading-where-as-the-league-heats-up/

Sam Maguire*
Eight provincial finalists (according to bookmakers' odds): Galway, Sligo, Dublin, Meath, Kerry, Cork, Derry and Armagh. These will be top seeds.

Next eight by league position (per February 27th standings): Mayo, Roscommon, Monaghan, Donegal, Tyrone, Louth, Kildare and Westmeath (Tailteann Cup holders).

Tailteann Cup

Remaining counties by league position: Clare, Limerick, Cavan Fermanagh, Down, Offaly, Antrim, Tipperary, Longford, Leitrim, Laois, Wexford, Wicklow, Carlow, London, Waterford and New York (to enter at preliminary quarter-final stage).


* Should a further county from Divisions Three or Four (at present Sligo — or Leitrim, London or New York are guaranteed by the Connacht draw) reach their provincial final, Kildare would on current standings be next in line for regrading to the Tailteann Cup as sixth in Division Two.

AFL Division Two

The cut for the Tailteann will be made at the bottom of this division. Already the places in Sam Maguire for lower-division teams have been taken by Westmeath from Division Three as winners of last year's Tailteann Cup and Sligo, Leitrim, London or New York from the same side of the Connacht draw.

At the moment Limerick on zero points and Clare on two are in the relegation places. Kildare are next, also with two but in sixth position thanks to the head-to-head with Clare.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on March 05, 2023, 08:54:13 AM
Consensus seems to be that it was a success for club players - you could say they're easy to satisfy as for the majority it probably meant they had 6 weeks odd of uninterrupted action, on the assumption that only a small portion of club action was still going on in October.
For a small group of elite players whose clubs progressed to the latter stages of provincial and all Ireland it probably intensified the workload and provided little opportunity for a break - this has always been the case, so no change there.
For media it's hard to spot any positives - concentration of action from may to end of June and little to talk about for the next 6 months - club games just don't cut it nationally, substitution controversies excepted. That concentration of fixtures problem is going to be much worse this year too with the new format.
The negative impact on coverage is very likely to have a long term impact on the mass appeal of the GAA, especially in the large urban areas where GAA slips out of consciousness for the younger generation for most of the year. I'm involved with a few underage teams, soccer and rugby are the topics of conversation all year long, very few would watch a league game that we don't bring them all to. I can definitely see this lack of visibility of the elite being a factor when lads will start dropping sports in the next few years to concentrate on one or two sports.
There's no easy answer, but the current set-up is a thumbs down from me - maybe a few tweaks could help. Definitely extending all Ireland semis and finals through August would be positive. Maybe starting hurling later and ending in September could reduce concentration a little bit and extend gaa interest beyond July.
One other thing that might help improve interest in both national League games and club games is for tg4 to have a dual commentary option - like it or not, there's few things that turns the average kid off more than hearing a few words as gaeilge on a Sunday afternoon!!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on March 14, 2023, 06:49:57 AM
If provincial championships were separate and the finals were played on st patricks day do you think they would get decent attendances.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2023, 07:49:07 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/19/gaa-continues-to-stay-on-top-of-tv-ratings-despite-rise-of-sporting-rivals/

The football final last year between Kerry and Galway drew a smaller audience (872,000) than the 2021 equivalent played in August between Tyrone and Mayo (994,000).
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 14, 2023, 07:51:39 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 14, 2023, 06:49:57 AM
If provincial championships were separate and the finals were played on st patricks day do you think they would get decent attendances.
The all ireland is built on the provinces because the GAA is controlled at provincial level.
In order to distance  the provincial championships from the all Ireland the GAA would have to be restructured.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on March 14, 2023, 04:47:14 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 14, 2023, 06:49:57 AM
If provincial championships were separate and the finals were played on st patricks day do you think they would get decent attendances.

April 8th start is already too early of a start for the provincial championships.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on March 15, 2023, 12:27:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2023, 07:51:39 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 14, 2023, 06:49:57 AM
If provincial championships were separate and the finals were played on st patricks day do you think they would get decent attendances.
The all ireland is build on the provinces because the GAA is controlled at provincial level.
In order to distance  the provincial championships from the all Ireland the GAA would have to be restructured.
This year will see the first major hit to the provincials - if you're already qualified for the all Ireland series, the provincials mean very little, not hard to see scenarios where teams are quite happy to play weakened teams in their province and get themselves right for the all Ireland group stages.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on March 15, 2023, 09:12:24 AM
That might apply to the top 2 or 3 teams who have a realistic chance of Sam.
Mind you in Ros' case this year with a new late managerial appointment losing to Mayowestros would give the manager and squad up to 6 weeks to fine tune preparations.
But who wants to lose to the neighbours?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on March 15, 2023, 10:29:11 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 15, 2023, 09:12:24 AM
That might apply to the top 2 or 3 teams who have a realistic chance of Sam.
Mind you in Ros' case this year with a new late managerial appointment losing to Mayowestros would give the manager and squad up to 6 weeks to fine tune preparations.
But who wants to lose to the neighbours?
the top 2 don't need to break sweat in their provincials anyway. Doubt theres any Ulster team who wouldn't be delighted with winning it. Not sure about Connacht.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Redhand Santa on March 15, 2023, 10:36:22 AM
It's certainly less than before but there is still advantages to winning your province. Looking at it from an ulster county point of view there's a good chance that Dublin/Kerry/Mayo (or Galway) will win their provinces and then go on to top their groups.

By winning your province you'll avoid being in their groups giving you a better chance of topping group and avoiding a play off to make the quarter finals. Also if you do that you won't meet any of them teams until the semi finals.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2023, 11:52:16 AM
Quote from: onefineday on March 15, 2023, 12:27:00 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2023, 07:51:39 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 14, 2023, 06:49:57 AM
If provincial championships were separate and the finals were played on st patricks day do you think they would get decent attendances.
The all ireland is build on the provinces because the GAA is controlled at provincial level.
In order to distance  the provincial championships from the all Ireland the GAA would have to be restructured.
This year will see the first major hit to the provincials - if you're already qualified for the all Ireland series, the provincials mean very little, not hard to see scenarios where teams are quite happy to play weakened teams in their province and get themselves right for the all Ireland group stages.
The provincials are still taking 4 weeks. And In Connacht D4 teams have a path to the final

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0307/1360822-beirne-its-frustrating-were-still-in-division-4/
"For us, it's extremely exciting. It's 10 years ago that all the lower division teams ended up on the same side of the draw (in Connacht). But for us, it's a serious chance. It's an opportunity we have looked at.
"When you see that draw, it immediately sets you up to think 'oh my God, I could be playing in a Connacht final here.'
"As a county, that's one of our main goals - as well as the league - that we could possibly play in a Connacht final. We've massive games in that, against New York and then possibly London/ Sligo. It's a one in a lifetime opportunity.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2023, 11:58:34 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 15, 2023, 10:36:22 AM
It's certainly less than before but there is still advantages to winning your province. Looking at it from an ulster county point of view there's a good chance that Dublin/Kerry/Mayo (or Galway) will win their provinces and then go on to top their groups.

By winning your province you'll avoid being in their groups giving you a better chance of topping group and avoiding a play off to make the quarter finals. Also if you do that you won't meet any of them teams until the semi finals.
In reality probably 30 teams plus Mayo haven't a hope of winning the All Ireland in any season. So winning a provincial title goes into the record books and is something. Once in a blue moon a D3 team or Monaghan might make an all Ireland semi.

The really memorable provincial titles for me would be Clare 92, Leitrim 94, Offaly 97, Laois 02, Westmeath 03, Sligo 07, Louth 10 , Tipp 20 and Cavan 20.
A Fermanagh Ulster title would be unforgettable.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on March 15, 2023, 12:52:03 PM
You're a year out on Laois and Westmeath ;).
A lot of Counties have a reasonable chance of winning a Provincial, not many have a chance of Sam.
Last 20 years 2003 to 2022 Tyrone 4, Kerry 6 and Dublin 8 with Cork and Donegal 1 each.
Around 17 have won Provincials in those 20 years.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: AustinPowers on March 15, 2023, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2023, 11:58:34 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 15, 2023, 10:36:22 AM
It's certainly less than before but there is still advantages to winning your province. Looking at it from an ulster county point of view there's a good chance that Dublin/Kerry/Mayo (or Galway) will win their provinces and then go on to top their groups.

By winning your province you'll avoid being in their groups giving you a better chance of topping group and avoiding a play off to make the quarter finals. Also if you do that you won't meet any of them teams until the semi finals.
In reality probably 30 teams plus Mayo haven't a hope of winning the All Ireland in any season. So winning a provincial title goes into the record books and is something. Once in a blue moon a D3 team or Monaghan might make an all Ireland semi.

The really memorable provincial titles for me would be Clare 92, Leitrim 94, Offaly 97, Laois 02, Westmeath 03, Sligo 07, Louth 10 , Tipp 20 and Cavan 20.
A Fermanagh Ulster title would be unforgettable.

What about  Kildare in  98 and  Armagh in 99?

Longford won a Leinster in 1968  I think it was .  Surely that must have been  a big  deal at the time  in Longford ?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2023, 01:29:21 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on March 15, 2023, 01:06:18 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2023, 11:58:34 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 15, 2023, 10:36:22 AM
It's certainly less than before but there is still advantages to winning your province. Looking at it from an ulster county point of view there's a good chance that Dublin/Kerry/Mayo (or Galway) will win their provinces and then go on to top their groups.

By winning your province you'll avoid being in their groups giving you a better chance of topping group and avoiding a play off to make the quarter finals. Also if you do that you won't meet any of them teams until the semi finals.
In reality probably 30 teams plus Mayo haven't a hope of winning the All Ireland in any season. So winning a provincial title goes into the record books and is something. Once in a blue moon a D3 team or Monaghan might make an all Ireland semi.

The really memorable provincial titles for me would be Clare 92, Leitrim 94, Offaly 97, Laois 02, Westmeath 03, Sligo 07, Louth 10 , Tipp 20 and Cavan 20.
A Fermanagh Ulster title would be unforgettable.

What about  Kildare in  98 and  Armagh in 99?

Longford won a Leinster in 1968  I think it was .  Surely that must have been  a big  deal at the time  in Longford ?
Kildare were very flaithiulach to us in the 98 final but both teams would have been D1 at the time I imagine.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on March 16, 2023, 01:14:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2023, 11:58:34 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on March 15, 2023, 10:36:22 AM
It's certainly less than before but there is still advantages to winning your province. Looking at it from an ulster county point of view there's a good chance that Dublin/Kerry/Mayo (or Galway) will win their provinces and then go on to top their groups.

By winning your province you'll avoid being in their groups giving you a better chance of topping group and avoiding a play off to make the quarter finals. Also if you do that you won't meet any of them teams until the semi finals.
In reality probably 30 teams plus Mayo haven't a hope of winning the All Ireland in any season. So winning a provincial title goes into the record books and is something. Once in a blue moon a D3 team or Monaghan might make an all Ireland semi.

The really memorable provincial titles for me would be Clare 92, Leitrim 94, Offaly 97, Laois 02, Westmeath 03, Sligo 07, Louth 10 , Tipp 20 and Cavan 20.
A Fermanagh Ulster title would be unforgettable.
And indeed, there's much more chance of Fermanagh winning a provincial title in this new era - as a d3 team they'll be gunning for it, whereas that may not be the case for the 5 Ulster teams who are guaranteed to be in the all Ireland series regardless.
Winning the province had prestige, but also offered a significant reward on the road to an all Ireland - to my mind that reward is now minimal, achieving a seeding is largely irrelevant when 3 teams out of 4 qualify and definitely not worth peaking for a month before the real games start. We'll see, but if this format were to be retained the worth of a provincial title or final appearance to top teams would very quickly diminish. It'll soon be that getting to the provincial final wil be the reward and much like a league final, neither team will want to play the game given the proximity of the next round of games.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2023, 10:30:50 AM
 John Fogarty last year

"The famous ESRI reports, which highlighted inter-county players were spending up to 31 hours a week towards their commitments in 2016, were interpreted in different ways by the GAA and the GPA. The GAA's decision to cut the length of the inter-county season may eventually lead to a better training to game ratio but the concentrated period is a challenge."
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2023, 04:38:44 PM
Here is a selection of views

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darragh-o-se-gaa-losing-out-as-other-sports-reach-their-endgames-1.4874956
If I'm honest about it, I'm not hearing the noise. The provincial football championships are racing through at breakneck speed and there is something not quite right about it. There's ducking and diving and dodging going on against a lot of other sports – the Champions League, Heineken Cup, the endgame to the English Premier League – that it is all so hectic just now and they're getting lost in the midst of it all.
It is like bumper cars; and I think the GAA are losing!
Unfortunately the GAA are like a boat turning in the water decision-wise, and you've still got this 60-40 majority you've to get at congress for anything to happen. That's archaic and you just can't progress. Every other sport we are competing with – be it soccer, or rugby or whatever – can make real-time decisions based on commerciality and for the good of their games.
The GAA has given away its best two months of the intercounty calendar – in August and September – when it had the stage to itself and was the only show in town.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0411/1291647-bonnar-short-season-leaves-players-in-vicious-circle/
Tipperary manager Colm Bonnar feels that the new split-season format has left county players trapped in "a vicious circle" with no period of downtime
Bonnar said that the lack of preparation time between league and championship was hard to deal with.
"Looking at it now, if players aren't fully fit when they come into you – most of the [club] campaigns are finishing at the end of October – a lot of them are in to November if they're in to the final stages of their own hurling campaigns in the county.
"There's just no time off for players anymore. It's a vicious circle and we've found that if players weren't coming to us....we'd have a six-week period leading into the league where we're officially allowed to train the players and if you're not fit coming in there, you're straight away struggling and probably won't make the league. The league will be over before you get your fitness and before you know it the championship is on top of you.
"You have a five-month window really from January to May and it's your championship season. It's over before you know it. That's going to be very, very unusual if they keep that format.
"It just means players if they want to play for their county, they're going to have to keep that conditioning and that preparedness constantly as long as they want to play hurling at a high level
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40969997.html


"The famous ESRI reports, which highlighted inter-county players were spending up to 31 hours a week towards their commitments in 2016, were interpreted in different ways by the GAA and the GPA. The GAA's decision to cut the length of the inter-county season may eventually lead to a better training to game ratio but the concentrated period is a challenge."

Effectively cutting eight weeks from the GAA's highest profile products hasn't been the easiest sell as some of the reactions to the split season would demonstrate. The loss of profile argument is one both Duffy and Ryan have railed against, Duffy having previously argued against moving the All-Irelands out of September, but it is not going to go away.
Replays would never be budgeted for and are considered bonuses and without them that average gate receipt figure would have dipped below €30m. Now that they are all but gone from the championships – all games are winners on the day and All-Ireland finals first have to go to extra-time before they can be replayed.

smaller inter-county window may prove  less appealing commercially.
The tangible cost of the split season? Excluding the team preparations savings it will bring, a price tag of somewhere around €3m is within reason

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2022/0912/1322014-sherlock-split-season-requires-period-of-reflection/
Sherlock said that the shortened inter-county season puts extra pressure on coaching teams between games, and he believes Derry's All-Ireland semi-final loss to Galway was a good example of this "The challenge with a shorter season is the preparation. It's very hard to prepare, particularly going from a semi-final into a final.
"Obviously, physically and mentally, it almost takes a week before the players recover from what they've done. Then, you have to focus your attention on another team. So you have to prepare for them. Then you obviously have to prepare for yourself."You take Derry as an example. Going into that Galway match, it's easy to say in hindsight that they should have had 'Plan B', and should have played attacking football, but when you have such a limited window, there's only so much you can work on.
"The reality is if guys are together three or four times a week, that's as much as you have. You don't have time like a professional where you can cover everything."From a coaching point of view, I'd prefer the longer season because you have more time to ensure that you have all your players, a full compliment, because you'll obviously have injuries."Then, tactically, you can prepare against what you're going to compete against but also then you can work out what's the best team for a given day."
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"Every player now, you can never relax fully. You need to be ticking over in the down season. I think that maintenance work is going to ramp up even more in the next couple of years because of the split-season."
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/


"I do think some counties do have to slim down to 12-team or 16-team championships to have them run off properly in a calendar season. I can understand the reasons why some counties have a Senior B championship but clear out all that rubbish, make it Senior, Intermediate and then Junior 1, Junior 2 etc
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"The championship needs to be a bit longer, it's compressed a little bit too much"

"I think the split-season has been quite successful but I certainly wouldn't jump into it for the next 10 years without giving it really good thought about all the aspects," he says. "Particularly how you're going to grow the game and keep it at the forefront for young people.



https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"Every player now, you can never relax fully. You need to be ticking over in the down season. I think that maintenance work is going to ramp up even more in the next couple of years because of the split-season."

Even now, as we head into the second year of the divided county-club calendar, the All-Ireland club finals will spill over into January 2024, with the result that players from those clubs usually end up missing league fixtures.

"I would like to see some definite down-time for all players," says Cheddar. "Even those last couple of weeks of the year. Everyone needs a break, even mentally.

"Take TJ Reid for example, one of the best hurlers of any generation, over the last few seasons he is playing well into the year with inter-county and then into the following year with his club Ballyhale.

"You probably have to have a bit of flexibility in year one but I would expect the GAA authorities to tighten up with that.
"I do think some counties do have to slim down to 12-team or 16-team championships to have them run off properly in a calendar season. I can understand the reasons why some counties have a Senior B championship but clear out all that rubbish, make it Senior, Intermediate and then Junior 1, Junior 2 etc.

"I think if all counties had that it would be much easier then to schedule games to make sure that your All-Ireland club championship is going to be held on the second Sunday in December."

"The championship needs to be a bit longer, it's compressed a little bit too much"

Plunkett, who will take charge of Kilkenny intermediate club St Martin's next year, thinks the new calendar model is a move in the right direction but is far from the finished article.

"I think the split-season has been quite successful but I certainly wouldn't jump into it for the next 10 years without giving it really good thought about all the aspects," he says. "Particularly how you're going to grow the game and keep it at the forefront for young people.

"Having it last year was really good because it gave us a sense of what it looks like. But what are we comparing that against
? We would have to have, for example, a blended season or something to compare It with.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on March 17, 2023, 04:36:41 AM
provincials are now basically a seeding competition
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on March 17, 2023, 12:12:03 PM
As well as being competitions in their own right.
That's been the situation since 2001.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 17, 2023, 12:15:54 PM
I don't see why club can't overlap.
And hurling needs more summer exposure.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on March 21, 2023, 08:40:34 PM
One of biggest issues with the split and very congested season is that under age inter county championships get totally lost or ignored.  For example the U20 football championship started tonight and I bet that's news to most on here.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: screenexile on March 21, 2023, 08:51:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2023, 12:15:54 PM
I don't see why club can't overlap.
And hurling needs more summer exposure.

Hurling needs more competitive teams!!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 21, 2023, 09:37:27 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2023, 08:51:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2023, 12:15:54 PM
I don't see why club can't overlap.
And hurling needs more summer exposure.

Hurling needs more competitive teams!!
I agree
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: twohands!!! on March 22, 2023, 12:03:47 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 21, 2023, 08:40:34 PM
One of biggest issues with the split and very congested season is that under age inter county championships get totally lost or ignored.  For example the U20 football championship started tonight and I bet that's news to most on here.

This has been an issue for the last few years with the U20 football especially. It's not directly related to the split season.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on March 22, 2023, 01:23:10 AM
Quote from: twohands!!! on March 22, 2023, 12:03:47 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 21, 2023, 08:40:34 PM
One of biggest issues with the split and very congested season is that under age inter county championships get totally lost or ignored.  For example the U20 football championship started tonight and I bet that's news to most on here.

This has been an issue for the last few years with the U20 football especially. It's not directly related to the split season.

2018 the first year of the U20 championship was played from the 25th May to the 5th of August the following year was made shorter 22 June – 3 August and 2021 championship more rushed again because of covid was played off between 1st July  to the 15th August. 


Each of those three years it got plenty of the limelight. Right now it's hard to keep track of the fixtures when all are squeezed into already busy senior schedule which will naturally grab the majority of attention.  This years U20 All Ireland football final is scheduled for the same weekend as the Leinster,Ulster senior football finals and round 1 of the Tailteann cup along with Munster hurling championship,Christy Ring,Nickey Rackard,Joe McDonagh cups also.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: armaghniac on March 22, 2023, 01:23:40 AM
Is there any schedule for the round robin games this year, if one wanted to go on holiday?
The GAA website seems silent on the matter, although it does have the quarter-finals.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on March 22, 2023, 01:29:47 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2023, 01:23:40 AM
Is there any schedule for the round robin games this year, if one wanted to go on holiday?
The GAA website seems silent on the matter, although it does have the quarter-finals.

Senior All Ireland ground stage? It was published with the master fixture list in December.


20-21.05.2023 (Sat/Sun)
GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship | Round 1 (Home & Away)
(Involving Munster & Connacht Finalists)
Seed 1 v Seed 3
Seed 2 v Seed 4


27-28.05.2023 (Sat/Sun)
GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship | Round 1 (Home & Away)
(Involving Leinster & Ulster Finalists)
Seed 1 v Seed 3
Seed 2 v Seed 4
----------------------------------------------

03-04.06.2023 (Sat/Sun)
GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship | Round 2 (Home & Away)
Seed 3 v Seed 2
Seed 4 v Seed1

17-18.06.2023 (Sat/Sun)
GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship | Round 3 (Neutral)
Seed 1 v Seed 2
Seed 3 v Seed 4

24-25.06.2023 (Sat/Sun)
GAA Football All-Ireland Senior Championship | Preliminary Quarter-Finals  (2nd v 3rd in groups)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on March 24, 2023, 02:12:02 PM
mayo requesting league final on saturday.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Estimator on March 24, 2023, 02:24:06 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 22, 2023, 01:23:40 AM
Is there any schedule for the round robin games this year, if one wanted to go on holiday?
The GAA website seems silent on the matter, although it does have the quarter-finals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship?wprov=sfla1

Run down of all 2023 C'ship fixtures etc
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: lenny on March 24, 2023, 02:44:58 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 24, 2023, 02:12:02 PM
mayo requesting league final on saturday.

Absolute joke, sure they have a free run this weekend. All their first choice players can get a week off.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: armaghniac on March 24, 2023, 02:46:09 PM
Quote from: Estimator on March 24, 2023, 02:24:06 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_All-Ireland_Senior_Football_Championship?wprov=sfla1

Run down of all 2023 C'ship fixtures etc

Yes, but the rounds and the groups for the All-Ireland group stage are all mixed up here, which explains my question above.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: ONeill on March 28, 2023, 09:56:56 PM
Is there any need for that preliminary quarter final? Is that to make sure there are no dead rubbers?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on March 28, 2023, 11:28:58 PM
Quote from: ONeill on March 28, 2023, 09:56:56 PM
Is there any need for that preliminary quarter final? Is that to make sure there are no dead rubbers?


seems to be so on final day a every team should still have something to play for either winning group to get the bye or get 2nd or 3rd and avoid elimination.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on March 28, 2023, 11:30:17 PM
Do teams that finish 2nd get home advantage in prelim qfs their should be an award for coming 2nd rather than 3rd.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on March 29, 2023, 12:51:44 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on March 28, 2023, 11:30:17 PM
Do teams that finish 2nd get home advantage in prelim qfs their should be an award for coming 2nd rather than 3rd.
Yes
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on May 19, 2023, 12:20:02 PM
This weekend

Rugby champions cup final
English Premier League second last round of matches
League of Ireland
USPGA
Katie Taylor homecoming fight
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 19, 2023, 12:28:56 PM
Won't be looking at any of that!!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: The PRO on May 19, 2023, 12:47:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2023, 12:20:02 PM
This weekend

Rugby champions cup final
English Premier League second last round of matches
League of Ireland
USPGA
Katie Taylor homecoming fight

Club league match for me tonight, Laois v Offaly in Portlaoise tomorrow evening and watch whatever other GAA games I can. MOTD and MOTD2 will do me for the soccer.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on May 19, 2023, 01:26:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 19, 2023, 12:20:02 PM
This weekend

Rugby champions cup final
English Premier League second last round of matches
League of Ireland
USPGA
Katie Taylor homecoming fight

Good job we've a decent schedule of GAA on then - couldn't have the other sports getting all the air time  ::)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on May 19, 2023, 01:55:12 PM
is it terrible weather for may or just usual.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: armaghniac on May 20, 2023, 10:55:26 PM
Attendances today were not stellar. Galway v Tyrone and Kerry v Mayo are games as big as you get involving different provinces. By contrast Semple stadium is sold out for the hurling tomorrow. One problem in modern Ireland is that it is difficult to get accommodation at a reasonable price if you wanted to make a weekend of an away game.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Wildweasel74 on May 20, 2023, 11:22:42 PM
As somebody pointed above, today I watched the rugby
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on May 20, 2023, 11:29:25 PM
23k in Killarney.
Pearse looked like 7k?
Ennis maybe 3k?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cunny Funt on May 20, 2023, 11:58:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 20, 2023, 11:29:25 PM
23k in Killarney.
Pearse looked like 7k?
Ennis maybe 3k?

Viewing the highlights seem to be tiny crowds at all of the Tailteann cup games, early days yet but the knock out games in that competition last year attracted more interest.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on May 21, 2023, 12:19:26 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on May 20, 2023, 11:58:37 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 20, 2023, 11:29:25 PM
23k in Killarney.
Pearse looked like 7k?
Ennis maybe 3k?

Viewing the highlights seem to be tiny crowds at all of the Tailteann cup games, early days yet but the knock out games in that competition last year attracted more interest.

There will be nobody at the TC games until knockout!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 18, 2023, 08:50:12 AM
This is a superb 2 minute fillet of the split season

https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1670195891674976256
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Hound on June 18, 2023, 09:53:52 AM
I think it's a nonsense complaining about the new system this early.

We get 4 extra knockout games with the prelim QF, and before they even happen people are saying they should be got rid of.

The round robin has been better than I expected, the biggest problem is the naysayers get all the limelight in the media and social media. So few of the games being on the Telly hasn't helped. If the Dubs-Ros game, for example, had been live on tv  that could have changed the narrative. Instead social media got the opportunity to lead the narrative and alll we heard was the moaning about the first half and instead of Ros getting credit they got lambasted.

We have had lots of extra games, at a higher level than normal league games,  many teams have learnt and improved, and now we have lots of straight knockout to look forward to. Let's hope people (and the feckin media) can now enjoy the championship and stop looking for things to moan about.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on June 18, 2023, 10:14:42 AM
Has any player or manager complained?
I haven't seen or heard of any anyhow.

My instinct is that only 2 should qualify from the Groups straight to Qtr Finals. Imagine how much bigger a game that one in Omagh yesterday or Tullamore today would be then.
But it is what it is and 6 weeks to go to AI Final.
Enjoy the trip.....

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 18, 2023, 10:22:11 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 18, 2023, 09:53:52 AM
I think it's a nonsense complaining about the new system this early.

We get 4 extra knockout games with the prelim QF, and before they even happen people are saying they should be got rid of.

The round robin has been better than I expected, the biggest problem is the naysayers get all the limelight in the media and social media. So few of the games being on the Telly hasn't helped. If the Dubs-Ros game, for example, had been live on tv  that could have changed the narrative. Instead social media got the opportunity to lead the narrative and alll we heard was the moaning about the first half and instead of Ros getting credit they got lambasted.

We have had lots of extra games, at a higher level than normal league games,  many teams have learnt and improved, and now we have lots of straight knockout to look forward to. Let's hope people (and the feckin media) can now enjoy the championship and stop looking for things to moan about.
It's a systemic change to the all Ireland so the first iteration is unlikely to be the last.
Next year probably will be different.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: restorepride on June 18, 2023, 10:55:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 18, 2023, 10:22:11 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 18, 2023, 09:53:52 AM
I think it's a nonsense complaining about the new system this early.

We get 4 extra knockout games with the prelim QF, and before they even happen people are saying they should be got rid of.

The round robin has been better than I expected, the biggest problem is the naysayers get all the limelight in the media and social media. So few of the games being on the Telly hasn't helped. If the Dubs-Ros game, for example, had been live on tv  that could have changed the narrative. Instead social media got the opportunity to lead the narrative and alll we heard was the moaning about the first half and instead of Ros getting credit they got lambasted.

We have had lots of extra games, at a higher level than normal league games,  many teams have learnt and improved, and now we have lots of straight knockout to look forward to. Let's hope people (and the feckin media) can now enjoy the championship and stop looking for things to moan about.
It's a systemic change to the all Ireland so the first iteration is unlikely to be the last.
Next year probably will be different.
Agreed.  Also, GAA families simply can't financially afford all the extra games - the cost of the Group games needs to be reduced dramatically for a start.  24 games played to eliminate 4 teams?! Some of my own family didn't travel to Longford yesterday dues to cost. Fact, not moaning.  And of course the Ulster Champions didn't feature on GAA Go.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on June 18, 2023, 12:14:16 PM
i think the system  has been grand. things i would change would be only provincial champions seeded and have a place in all ireland if outside the top 16 league rankings and home advantage for group winners (wont happen as gaa obsessed with croke park)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 18, 2023, 12:20:28 PM
Quote from: Hound on June 18, 2023, 09:53:52 AM
I think it's a nonsense complaining about the new system this early.

We get 4 extra knockout games with the prelim QF, and before they even happen people are saying they should be got rid of.

The round robin has been better than I expected, the biggest problem is the naysayers get all the limelight in the media and social media. So few of the games being on the Telly hasn't helped. If the Dubs-Ros game, for example, had been live on tv  that could have changed the narrative. Instead social media got the opportunity to lead the narrative and alll we heard was the moaning about the first half and instead of Ros getting credit they got lambasted.

We have had lots of extra games, at a higher level than normal league games,  many teams have learnt and improved, and now we have lots of straight knockout to look forward to. Let's hope people (and the feckin media) can now enjoy the championship and stop looking for things to moan about.
The PQF is debatable . It could be retained. But  making better use of the limited time available should definitely be considered.
I don't think it's fair to have teams potentially playing 3 weekends in a row ie this weekend, next with PQF and the one after with QF. Better planning would fix this.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on June 18, 2023, 07:28:38 PM
Will there be game on Terrestrial TV now. Or are we in an unending cycle of all games being on GAAGO.
Do we care anymore?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 18, 2023, 07:38:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 18, 2023, 07:28:38 PM
Will there be game on Terrestrial TV now. Or are we in an unending cycle of all games being on GAAGO.
Do we care anymore?
GAAGO covers matches on days there are loads of them
The number of matches going forward is limited. So they just have 2 more weekends.

Sat, June 24th
SFC prelim quarter-finals (2 x games) (time tbc)
Sat, July 1st
SFC quarter-finals (2 x games) (time tbc)

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on June 18, 2023, 07:49:30 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 18, 2023, 07:38:02 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 18, 2023, 07:28:38 PM
Will there be game on Terrestrial TV now. Or are we in an unending cycle of all games being on GAAGO.
Do we care anymore?
GAAGO covers matches on days there are loads of them
The number of matches going forward is limited. So they just have 2 more weekends.

Sat, June 24th
SFC prelim quarter-finals (2 x games) (time tbc)
Sat, July 1st
SFC quarter-finals (2 x games) (time tbc)

And the 2nd Question: Do we care anymore?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: restorepride on June 18, 2023, 08:40:03 PM
75% of the Provincial Championships got it right.   Not a bad starting point.  These Provincial things could catch on?!!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on June 23, 2023, 12:30:34 AM
Quote from: restorepride on June 18, 2023, 08:40:03 PM
75% of the Provincial Championships got it right.   Not a bad starting point.  These Provincial things could catch on?!!

they're over, they're the obvious white elephant in the new system.  Expect to see crowds dwindle in Ulster and Connacht over the next few years as people figure out that they're relatively meaningless.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: armaghniac on June 23, 2023, 11:14:09 AM
Quote from: restorepride on June 18, 2023, 10:55:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 18, 2023, 10:22:11 AM
Quote from: Hound on June 18, 2023, 09:53:52 AM
I think it's a nonsense complaining about the new system this early.

We get 4 extra knockout games with the prelim QF, and before they even happen people are saying they should be got rid of.

The round robin has been better than I expected, the biggest problem is the naysayers get all the limelight in the media and social media. So few of the games being on the Telly hasn't helped. If the Dubs-Ros game, for example, had been live on tv  that could have changed the narrative. Instead social media got the opportunity to lead the narrative and alll we heard was the moaning about the first half and instead of Ros getting credit they got lambasted.

We have had lots of extra games, at a higher level than normal league games,  many teams have learnt and improved, and now we have lots of straight knockout to look forward to. Let's hope people (and the feckin media) can now enjoy the championship and stop looking for things to moan about.
It's a systemic change to the all Ireland so the first iteration is unlikely to be the last.
Next year probably will be different.
Agreed.  Also, GAA families simply can't financially afford all the extra games - the cost of the Group games needs to be reduced dramatically for a start.  24 games played to eliminate 4 teams?! Some of my own family didn't travel to Longford yesterday dues to cost. Fact, not moaning.  And of course the Ulster Champions didn't feature on GAA Go.

They need some discount for people that go to all the group games, a 3 game package or a discount for the subsequent QF or preliminary QF.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on June 23, 2023, 12:06:58 PM
Quote from: onefineday on June 23, 2023, 12:30:34 AM
Quote from: restorepride on June 18, 2023, 08:40:03 PM
75% of the Provincial Championships got it right.   Not a bad starting point.  These Provincial things could catch on?!!

they're over, they're the obvious white elephant in the new system.  Expect to see crowds dwindle in Ulster and Connacht over the next few years as people figure out that they're relatively meaningless.
You weren't in Clones for the Ulster final or you wouldn't be coming out with shite like that.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: 5times5times on June 23, 2023, 12:22:52 PM
Armagh games attendances in Ulster...

10k v Antrim
12k v Cavan
22.5k v Down
30k v Derry

That's close to 75000 in 4 games.... Dwindling, yeah right.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: pbat on June 23, 2023, 12:23:25 PM
I believe the GAA have finally found a formula for the championship that works with a few tweaks,  but it needs to be spread across the summer with the All Ireland finals last two week ends of August at the earliest.

Bowing to the GPA by condensing the summer so there members can swan of to the states is wrong. I have no issue with lads going to America to make a few quid, I have an issue with the GAA moving there calendar to facility this.

This is nothing to do with club players, after tonight my club have 3 league games left in the Armagh league and the championship doesn't start to end off August. This was never about player welfare.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on June 23, 2023, 12:33:31 PM
Paranoia  ::)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on June 23, 2023, 01:23:03 PM
Quote from: pbat on June 23, 2023, 12:23:25 PM
I believe the GAA have finally found a formula for the championship that works with a few tweaks,  but it needs to be spread across the summer with the All Ireland finals last two week ends of August at the earliest.

Bowing to the GPA by condensing the summer so there members can swan of to the states is wrong. I have no issue with lads going to America to make a few quid, I have an issue with the GAA moving there calendar to facility this.

This is nothing to do with club players, after tonight my club have 3 league games left in the Armagh league and the championship doesn't start to end off August. This was never about player welfare.

It has plenty to do with club players. Football Championship starts in my county this weekend. Try and consider what it might be like in a county where football and hurling are both popular and there is a significant overlap of players. Then consider how starting later impacts those players. I was one of them for 15 years. It was shit. It's way better now.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: rrhf on June 23, 2023, 02:28:25 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on June 23, 2023, 12:22:52 PM
Armagh games attendances in Ulster...

10k v Antrim
12k v Cavan
22.5k v Down
30k v Derry

That's close to 75000 in 4 games.... Dwindling, yeah right.
They need to split Armagh in 2.. for Armagh to bring 30 K people to an ulster final is simply amazing. Well done all! Do you have a pic?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: rrhf on June 23, 2023, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: pbat on June 23, 2023, 12:23:25 PM
I believe the GAA have finally found a formula for the championship that works with a few tweaks,  but it needs to be spread across the summer with the All Ireland finals last two week ends of August at the earliest.

Bowing to the GPA by condensing the summer so there members can swan of to the states is wrong. I have no issue with lads going to America to make a few quid, I have an issue with the GAA moving there calendar to facility this.

This is nothing to do with club players, after tonight my club have 3 league games left in the Armagh league and the championship doesn't start to end off August. This was never about player welfare.
I agree but for 1 change put the minor games on before it as they have hurt a great competition by separating them. Also play tailtin cup earlier and both finalists enter Sam race at prelim quarter finals stage in same year. Winner still gets a holiday. Could you imagine the excitement in Meath, down Antrim and derry this weekend if they still had a chance to get
Back in the race for Sam by winning 1 more game.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Louther on June 23, 2023, 03:26:29 PM
Quote from: rrhf on June 23, 2023, 02:32:43 PM
Quote from: pbat on June 23, 2023, 12:23:25 PM
I believe the GAA have finally found a formula for the championship that works with a few tweaks,  but it needs to be spread across the summer with the All Ireland finals last two week ends of August at the earliest.

Bowing to the GPA by condensing the summer so there members can swan of to the states is wrong. I have no issue with lads going to America to make a few quid, I have an issue with the GAA moving there calendar to facility this.

This is nothing to do with club players, after tonight my club have 3 league games left in the Armagh league and the championship doesn't start to end off August. This was never about player welfare.
I agree but for 1 change put the minor games on before it as they have hurt a great competition by separating them. Also play tailtin cup earlier and both finalists enter Sam race at prelim quarter finals stage in same year. Winner still gets a holiday. Could you imagine the excitement in Meath, down Antrim and derry this weekend if they still had a chance to get
Back in the race for Sam by winning 1 more game.

Bonkers. Calling for the summer games to go longer but for the "tailtin" to be finished earlier so they can enter the all Ireland championship? So 14 other teams are finished weeks earlier so 2 average teams can re enter a competition they've already had two chances to qualify for - league and provincial championship.

I'm Derry are very excited for the semi finals this weekend. There wouldn't be one extra ripple in these counties at the thoughts of getting into quarter  finals as they know they would be squarely beat out the gate.

The constant want in the GAA for second chances and rewarding losing and lesser quality is amazing at times.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Louther on June 23, 2023, 03:31:32 PM
I've actually had a great idea. The teams who don't qualify out of there groups i.E. Louth who came fourth, get to enter the Tailteann Cup at preliminary quarter final stage, the the two finalists of the Tailteann Cup get into the All Ireland championship quarter final stage.

A great opportunity for Louth to get stuffed again by Dublin or Kerry or someone new like Mayo or Galway.

Some teams be waiting for weeks or a month for a game but we have a serious buzz in some counties in the Tailteann. Could increase attendances by dozens of people.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on June 23, 2023, 04:15:38 PM
This shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp but I'll explain it anyway.

The reason why, in any given season, a team is in the Tailteann Cup is because they're below the standard of the AI, and as far away as a lighthouse from the AI contenders.

Parachuting Tailteann winners back into the AI in the same season wouldn't be a reward. It would be punishment.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: BrotherMore6592 on June 23, 2023, 04:25:01 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on June 23, 2023, 12:22:52 PM
Armagh games attendances in Ulster...

10k v Antrim
12k v Cavan
22.5k v Down
30k v Derry

That's close to 75000 in 4 games.... Dwindling, yeah right.

Legends. I really hope they are presented with an award for their outstanding commitment at the end of the season.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: AustinPowers on June 23, 2023, 04:56:05 PM
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on June 23, 2023, 04:25:01 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on June 23, 2023, 12:22:52 PM
Armagh games attendances in Ulster...

10k v Antrim
12k v Cavan
22.5k v Down
30k v Derry

That's close to 75000 in 4 games.... Dwindling, yeah right.

Legends. I really hope they are presented with an award for their outstanding commitment at the end of the season.

Did an  Armagh woman screw you  over or something ?  ;)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on June 23, 2023, 05:11:50 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 23, 2023, 04:15:38 PM


The reason why, in any given season, a team is in the Tailteann Cup is because they're below the standard of the AI, and as far away as a lighthouse from the AI contenders.


👍

The participating players and managements seem to be fairly satisfied with the TC .
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: RedHand88 on June 23, 2023, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on June 23, 2023, 12:22:52 PM
Armagh games attendances in Ulster...

10k v Antrim
12k v Cavan
22.5k v Down
30k v Derry

That's close to 75000 in 4 games.... Dwindling, yeah right.

That's not the way it works you absolute dose  ;D ;D ;D
You did not have 75000 in 4 games, you had 75000 across 4 games, between both sets of fans.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Wildweasel74 on June 23, 2023, 11:27:53 PM
There wasn't 20k Armagh ones at Clones, Derry took all their available tickets.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on June 24, 2023, 12:50:24 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on June 23, 2023, 04:15:38 PM
This shouldn't be a difficult concept to grasp but I'll explain it anyway.

The reason why, in any given season, a team is in the Tailteann Cup is because they're below the standard of the AI, and as far away as a lighthouse from the AI contenders.

Parachuting Tailteann winners back into the AI in the same season wouldn't be a reward. It would be punishment.

Gonna go out on a limb here and hazard a guess that Louther was being sarcastic.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on June 24, 2023, 07:43:34 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on June 23, 2023, 12:06:58 PM
Quote from: onefineday on June 23, 2023, 12:30:34 AM
Quote from: restorepride on June 18, 2023, 08:40:03 PM
75% of the Provincial Championships got it right.   Not a bad starting point.  These Provincial things could catch on?!!

they're over, they're the obvious white elephant in the new system.  Expect to see crowds dwindle in Ulster and Connacht over the next few years as people figure out that they're relatively meaningless.
You weren't in Clones for the Ulster final or you wouldn't be coming out with shite like that.
I wasn't, had an underage game to coach at and didn't bother getting cover as i didn't see the result having a massive difference in overall outcome for either team. I was at half of Derry's league games this year and I was at last year's ulster final and whilst it was pretty much my highlight of the year, I was happy enough to leave it this time around. Obviously I was engrossed and eating the nails off myself the longer it went on, but that doesn't change the fact that as people realise the reward is relatively small, the prestige of holding aloft the anglo celt will drop and crowds will accordingly follow.
It's a shame, as a kid I was brought up going to almost every ulster championship match every weekend, but things have moved on and there's no way I can see where provincial championships can have a greater incentive that won't undermine the new structure entirely.
Mcguigan's proposals around giving champions a spot in the quarters defeats the purpose of the new structure which is to remove the unfair advantage certain counties have had for a century by virtue of their geographical location. Like it or not, it's hard to see the provincials remaining relevant and you'd imagine they'll replace the McKenna cup in time.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: rrhf on June 24, 2023, 09:09:01 AM
Quote from: BrotherMore6592 on June 23, 2023, 04:25:01 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on June 23, 2023, 12:22:52 PM
Armagh games attendances in Ulster...

10k v Antrim
12k v Cavan
22.5k v Down
30k v Derry

That's close to 75000 in 4 games.... Dwindling, yeah right.

Legends. I really hope they are presented with an award for their outstanding commitment at the end of the season.
With the momentum they are gathering the fans will soon be filling croke park on their own.  Dublin or Mayo would be the only counties with close to 75k fans...
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 26, 2023, 10:49:20 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/26/denis-walsh-everyone-left-in-the-hurling-championship-is-racing-against-time/

Once upon a time it felt like the championship took a month of Sundays, and at that rate there was waste in the system that the GAA was slow to accept or address. There was no future in that. But now? It feels like the season has been fired from a canon.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on June 26, 2023, 12:24:39 PM
Circa 57k attendances at the 4 Pre QF games.
Will the QFs exceed 100k next weekend?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 27, 2023, 12:23:28 PM
In the hurling 3 of the 4 teams left are beset with injuries. The Munster hurling championship is run off very quickly and there is no time to recover. I imagine this will be looked at over the winter.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Redhand Santa on June 27, 2023, 12:28:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 26, 2023, 12:24:39 PM
Circa 57k attendances at the 4 Pre QF games.
Will the QFs exceed 100k next weekend?

Yeah they should easily enough. I'd imagine Sunday will get over 70,000 (may even close to sell out). Saturday could well hit 50,000 plus.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 29, 2023, 09:14:02 PM
The first 10 minutes of this are very interesting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BtiJgKf0aQ

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on June 30, 2023, 06:47:53 AM
You can see the points there but 3 games in a month is not uncommon in any sport.
Plus they would be getting slogged in training and playing midweek challenge games any other year too.

Like there are lads who will say GAA players are fitter and better prepped that League of Ireland. They don't complain about games every week, plus the odd vup mstch.

It boils down to how they prepare too. These 'highly rated S&C coaches' obviously haven't moved on.

It will be pushed back a bit and tweaked. Like some counties won't start club championship for ages.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 30, 2023, 07:46:32 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on June 30, 2023, 06:47:53 AM
You can see the points there but 3 games in a month is not uncommon in any sport.
Plus they would be getting slogged in training and playing midweek challenge games any other year too.

Like there are lads who will say GAA players are fitter and better prepped that League of Ireland. They don't complain about games every week, plus the odd vup mstch.

It boils down to how they prepare too. These 'highly rated S&C coaches' obviously haven't moved on.

It will be pushed back a bit and tweaked. Like some counties won't start club championship for ages.
LoI is professional. They have large squads- Shamrock Rovers have a squad of 33 players.  If Shamrock Rovers have an injury crisis they can use the squad or buy in players for next season.
If they are successful they earn money to buy players. If GAA was like LoI Shamrock Rovers could buy Clifford.

GAA is a totally different model.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on June 30, 2023, 02:27:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on June 26, 2023, 12:24:39 PM
Circa 57k attendances at the 4 Pre QF games.
Will the QFs exceed 100k next weekend?
Sunday officially sold out, 65k expected Saturday.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on June 30, 2023, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2023, 07:46:32 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on June 30, 2023, 06:47:53 AM
You can see the points there but 3 games in a month is not uncommon in any sport.
Plus they would be getting slogged in training and playing midweek challenge games any other year too.

Like there are lads who will say GAA players are fitter and better prepped that League of Ireland. They don't complain about games every week, plus the odd vup mstch.

It boils down to how they prepare too. These 'highly rated S&C coaches' obviously haven't moved on.

It will be pushed back a bit and tweaked. Like some counties won't start club championship for ages.
LoI is professional. They have large squads- Shamrock Rovers have a squad of 33 players.  If Shamrock Rovers have an injury crisis they can use the squad or buy in players for next season.
If they are successful they earn money to buy players. If GAA was like LoI Shamrock Rovers could buy Clifford.

GAA is a totally different model.

To which they are limited. An intercounty GAA manager has the pick of hundreds of players.
Injuries are part of sport. Only one team is going to win the all-Ireland, no matter how many players get injured.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on June 30, 2023, 04:17:06 PM
Quote from: shark on June 30, 2023, 03:52:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 30, 2023, 07:46:32 AM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on June 30, 2023, 06:47:53 AM
You can see the points there but 3 games in a month is not uncommon in any sport.
Plus they would be getting slogged in training and playing midweek challenge games any other year too.

Like there are lads who will say GAA players are fitter and better prepped that League of Ireland. They don't complain about games every week, plus the odd vup mstch.

It boils down to how they prepare too. These 'highly rated S&C coaches' obviously haven't moved on.

It will be pushed back a bit and tweaked. Like some counties won't start club championship for ages.
LoI is professional. They have large squads- Shamrock Rovers have a squad of 33 players.  If Shamrock Rovers have an injury crisis they can use the squad or buy in players for next season.
If they are successful they earn money to buy players. If GAA was like LoI Shamrock Rovers could buy Clifford.

GAA is a totally different model.

To which they are limited. An intercounty GAA manager has the pick of hundreds of players.
Injuries are part of sport. Only one team is going to win the all-Ireland, no matter how many players get injured.
Injuries are more likely under the new system. 3 of the hurling semi finalists have several players with  injuries.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:26:21 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/03/finishing-top-of-round-robin-group-pays-off-in-championship-quarter-finals/

There are informative stats from American Football whereby the teams who sit waiting to face the winners of the Wild Card weekend emerge victorious from that subsequent game approximately 74 per cent of the time.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on July 05, 2023, 04:18:43 PM
So we are giving up the summer to other sports!!!
But right now with little on and big games taking place there are no media days and no coverage.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Louther on July 05, 2023, 04:30:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 03, 2023, 07:26:21 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/03/finishing-top-of-round-robin-group-pays-off-in-championship-quarter-finals/

There are informative stats from American Football whereby the teams who sit waiting to face the winners of the Wild Card weekend emerge victorious from that subsequent game approximately 74 per cent of the time.

Or to put it another way, the teams that have preformed better and win more games over the season also win the knockout game 3 out of 4 times.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on July 05, 2023, 04:52:53 PM
I see HQ are looking at getting rid of league finals in an effort to free up the calendar. Are pre season competitions untouchable? Surely it would make more sense to start the NFL mid January instead of the last weekend of the month. Option B should be to push the AI final out to early August.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 05, 2023, 05:12:06 PM
does that mean more dead rubbers in the league if zero finals
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 05, 2023, 05:18:05 PM
I did not like splitting the league into two groups during covid but maybe split the league into two groups of 4  play each team in group once and one cross-over game with other group.  group winners into semi finals  2nd v 3rd in quarter finals  teams that finish bottom of group are relegated maybe you could have only one team promoted so the two bottom teams in groups play each other to see who goes down. Another option would be one team automatically promoted and the loser of division 2 final plays winner of division automatic relation final.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on July 05, 2023, 05:42:30 PM
League finals may as well go, I think the lower leagues aren't as fussed anymore. Croke Park is always empty and even when Mayo won the league this year, the schedule would have killed their celebrations with a championship match the following weekend.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 05, 2023, 05:55:05 PM
Nothing wrong with team that tops the table being League Champions......except of course the € from the D1/D2 Final.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: twohands!!! on July 05, 2023, 06:18:46 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 05, 2023, 05:12:06 PM
does that mean more dead rubbers in the league if zero finals

The championship link with the league place structure means that even if the finals go that the league games aren't going to be meaningless.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Derryman forever on July 05, 2023, 07:16:10 PM
I always felt that topping the table should have been sufficient to be called champion.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 05, 2023, 07:31:45 PM
how many counties have already started their county championship.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 05, 2023, 07:32:38 PM
would having the league final at the home of the table toppers not have  a better atmosphere.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on July 05, 2023, 09:02:03 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on July 05, 2023, 04:18:43 PM
So we are giving up the summer to other sports!!!
But right now with little on and big games taking place there are no media days and no coverage.

Yep. All the screaming from certain people about the split season creating a loss of exposure. That argument shown how weak it is. The only sport worth watching this weekend is the all Ireland hurling semi finals, and the teams aren't speaking to the media.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on July 05, 2023, 11:19:15 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 05, 2023, 04:52:53 PM
I see HQ are looking at getting rid of league finals in an effort to free up the calendar. Are pre season competitions untouchable? Surely it would make more sense to start the NFL mid January instead of the last weekend of the month. Option B should be to push the AI final out to early August.
Not to mention home advantage which is a huge factor in NFL, particularly come play-off time and rather inclement weather in the likes of buffalo and New England.
That said, we agree, there appears to have been an advantage to winning one's group, who'd have thought. Next year, teams and should focus on winning their groups is my advice.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Lazer on July 06, 2023, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 05, 2023, 04:52:53 PM
I see HQ are looking at getting rid of league finals in an effort to free up the calendar. Are pre season competitions untouchable? Surely it would make more sense to start the NFL mid January instead of the last weekend of the month. Option B should be to push the AI final out to early August.

The league finals should have been scrapped back when Division 1A/1B were scrapped.
The league winners should be whoever tops the league

First sensible decision by the GAA
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 06, 2023, 12:23:57 PM
There should be enough time to run off the all Ireland without penalties and giving the PQF enough time for rest before the QFs-
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 06, 2023, 12:33:55 PM
And Co Finals Christmas Eve.....
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: full moon on July 06, 2023, 08:20:24 PM
The hurling semi finals fairly going under radar? Talk of not great ticket sales for one of the matches which isn't a great sign.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on July 06, 2023, 08:47:19 PM
Hurling Semi final attendance last year.

39,626 Clare v Kilkenny
52,215 Limerick v Galway

We'll see how those figures compares this weekend for the same semi final matches.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: AustinPowers on July 06, 2023, 09:54:09 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 06, 2023, 08:47:19 PM
Hurling Semi final attendance last year.

39,626 Clare v Kilkenny
52,215 Limerick v Galway

We'll see how those figures compares this weekend for the same semi final matches.

A double  header in Croke Park would  nearly cover that  crowd

Didn't the Hurling  semi  finals used to be double headers  back in the  90's?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: joemamas on July 07, 2023, 03:54:17 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 06, 2023, 09:54:09 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 06, 2023, 08:47:19 PM
Hurling Semi final attendance last year.

39,626 Clare v Kilkenny
52,215 Limerick v Galway

We'll see how those figures compares this weekend for the same semi final matches.

A double  header in Croke Park would  nearly cover that  crowd

Didn't the Hurling  semi  finals used to be double headers  back in the  90's?

It should be a double header, is there anything worse from a marketing/ atmosphere than having an All-Ireland semi final in a stadium that is less than half full.
I was there on the Saturday last year, zero atmosphere. Clare's wides didn't help but still.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 07, 2023, 04:04:47 PM
So you'd leave 9,000 to watch it on TV?
GAA say they're expecting c100k this weekend, capacity 82k.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: joemamas on July 07, 2023, 04:16:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 06, 2023, 12:33:55 PM
And Co Finals Christmas Eve.....

? how many county championships will have began by mid August,  my guess would be Zero to three.
Everyone in the country knows that.
Most club players are gone traveling for the summer. The All-ireland should be played Mid August full stop.
By mid July, there would be only 4 teams left, by first Sunday of August, there would only be two.
Biggest winners, soccer and Sky sports. Gaa are hading them August and September on a platter. This year thrown in Rugby World Cup  and you will not have a word about GAA from July 31st to almost November. But yet, County teams and supporters are expected to go to three games in three weekends.
There will never be Irish media coverage of any early round club championship games, and again to remind you, very very few club managers want the club championship to begin before September, as most all third level students are gone, and the same for recent graduates.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 07, 2023, 04:35:24 PM
Quote from: joemamas on July 07, 2023, 04:16:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 06, 2023, 12:33:55 PM
And Co Finals Christmas Eve.....

The All-ireland should be played Mid August full stop.

Biggest winners, soccer and Sky sports. Gaa are hading them August and September on a platter.
And you're taking 2 weeks of that off them ;)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on July 07, 2023, 04:51:19 PM
Quote from: joemamas on July 07, 2023, 04:16:07 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 06, 2023, 12:33:55 PM
And Co Finals Christmas Eve.....

? how many county championships will have began by mid August,  my guess would be Zero to three.
Everyone in the country knows that.
Most club players are gone traveling for the summer. The All-ireland should be played Mid August full stop.
By mid July, there would be only 4 teams left, by first Sunday of August, there would only be two.
Biggest winners, soccer and Sky sports. Gaa are hading them August and September on a platter. This year thrown in Rugby World Cup  and you will not have a word about GAA from July 31st to almost November. But yet, County teams and supporters are expected to go to three games in three weekends.
There will never be Irish media coverage of any early round club championship games, and again to remind you, very very few club managers want the club championship to begin before September, as most all third level students are gone, and the same for recent graduates.

Well not zero , as Westmeath started 2 weeks ago. I'm not familiar with other counties.
The soccer and Sky Sports argument is a weak one. There is no soccer on this weekend, and yet there has been little promotion of the hurling semi finals. 
There is little media coverage of these games because the county teams refuse to engage with media. So you could have 12 months of county games and it wouldn't make any odds in that regard.
"Most" club players are gone travelling for the summer? That is nonsense. You do know that "most" means the majority , as in more than 50%? A tiny portion are travelling. Do you think club players are all in college?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 07, 2023, 07:49:34 PM
all county championships should be knockout anyway leagues are there to give team multiple matches.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 07, 2023, 08:29:56 PM
Just stop will ya!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on July 08, 2023, 07:38:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 07, 2023, 04:04:47 PM
So you'd leave 9,000 to watch it on TV?
GAA say they're expecting c100k this weekend, capacity 82k.
You'd think there's a fair chance that at least 10k were there both days.
A problem with double headers is that a large portion of the fans just get up and leave after game 1, very noticeable last week for the Monaghan v Armagh game. Play the kk v Clare hurling semi in semple, should work for everyone concerned - bar croker park long term ticket holders - but give them an extra Garth Brooks ticket and everyone be happy!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on July 09, 2023, 05:04:59 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 06, 2023, 08:47:19 PM
Hurling Semi final attendance last year.

39,626 Clare v Kilkenny
52,215 Limerick v Galway

We'll see how those figures compares this weekend for the same semi final matches.

Official attendances

59,739 for Galway v Limerick yesterday
48,360 for Kilkenny v Clare today

An increase of 16,258 on last year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 09, 2023, 05:43:43 PM
And to think a poster wanted a double header  ::)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 10, 2023, 06:31:17 AM
I like the new format but the compressed timetable means that there isn't  enough time at football qf stage meaning games suit group winners.

In the hurling there were no press nights ahead of the semifinals.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: ardtole on July 10, 2023, 08:01:50 AM
Quote from: onefineday on July 08, 2023, 07:38:42 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 07, 2023, 04:04:47 PM
So you'd leave 9,000 to watch it on TV?
GAA say they're expecting c100k this weekend, capacity 82k.
You'd think there's a fair chance that at least 10k were there both days.
A problem with double headers is that a large portion of the fans just get up and leave after game 1, very noticeable last week for the Monaghan v Armagh game. Play the kk v Clare hurling semi in semple, should work for everyone concerned - bar croker park long term ticket holders - but give them an extra Garth Brooks ticket and everyone be happy!

If my team is playing in the 2nd game I've no bother watching the 1st game. But if Down are playing in the first game and get beat, I'd be sick looking at football and probably head off before the other game starts. If we win I'd probably hang on for a while but if the game was shite, the lure of a celebratory pint would often come out on top.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: ardtole on July 10, 2023, 08:25:34 AM
I've been to 2 double headers this year and stayed for all 4 games. The Tailtain cup semis where we were the 2nd game and we played Tipperary in Thurles in the Tailtain cup and Tipp played Limerick in the hurling afterwards and it was an excellent game.

It was my 1st Munster hurling game and I'd definitely go again if I got the opportunity.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on July 10, 2023, 01:25:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 10, 2023, 06:31:17 AM
I like the new format but the compressed timetable means that there isn't  enough time at football qf stage meaning games suit group winners.

In the hurling there were no press nights ahead of the semifinals.

Yep, and neither would there have been had these been played in August.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 10, 2023, 02:29:26 PM
Quote from: Franko on July 10, 2023, 01:25:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 10, 2023, 06:31:17 AM
I like the new format but the compressed timetable means that there isn't  enough time at football qf stage meaning games suit group winners.

In the hurling there were no press nights ahead of the semifinals.

Yep, and neither would there have been had these been played in August.
An extra week in each case and bingo.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Kidder81 on July 10, 2023, 02:35:28 PM
I think there should be a 3 week run in to the AIF
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 10, 2023, 02:54:20 PM
And Co Finals at Christmas?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 10, 2023, 03:00:08 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 10, 2023, 02:54:20 PM
And Co Finals at Christmas?
County finals should be played the following February.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Kidder81 on July 10, 2023, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 10, 2023, 02:54:20 PM
And Co Finals at Christmas?

County finals in Antrim are played in the middle of October, that hasn't changed with the compressed calendar
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: joemamas on July 10, 2023, 04:42:04 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 10, 2023, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 10, 2023, 02:54:20 PM
And Co Finals at Christmas?

County finals in Antrim are played in the middle of October, that hasn't changed with the compressed calendar

Rossfan is in denial regarding this fact, same with all counties.
Mayo out on July 1, last round on group club championship games on September 15th.  Final Mid October.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on July 10, 2023, 05:09:36 PM
Quote from: joemamas on July 10, 2023, 04:42:04 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 10, 2023, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 10, 2023, 02:54:20 PM
And Co Finals at Christmas?

County finals in Antrim are played in the middle of October, that hasn't changed with the compressed calendar

Rossfan is in denial regarding this fact, same with all counties.
Mayo out on July 1, last round on group club championship games on September 15th.  Final Mid October.

County boards to blame then

1st round Derry SFC 6th August

And they are still in the championship
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on July 10, 2023, 05:12:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 10, 2023, 02:29:26 PM
Quote from: Franko on July 10, 2023, 01:25:01 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 10, 2023, 06:31:17 AM
I like the new format but the compressed timetable means that there isn't  enough time at football qf stage meaning games suit group winners.

In the hurling there were no press nights ahead of the semifinals.

Yep, and neither would there have been had these been played in August.
An extra week in each case and bingo.

Why?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: AustinPowers on July 10, 2023, 05:13:24 PM
Quote from: joemamas on July 10, 2023, 04:42:04 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 10, 2023, 03:02:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 10, 2023, 02:54:20 PM
And Co Finals at Christmas?

County finals in Antrim are played in the middle of October, that hasn't changed with the compressed calendar

Rossfan is in denial regarding this fact, same with all counties.
Mayo out on July 1, last round on group club championship games on September 15th.  Final Mid October.

Is there any  point to this split  season then? 

Playing  the championship   To the theme of the Benny  hill show.  No replays,  penalties,  and no proper gaps or  build up between matches?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 10, 2023, 07:27:10 PM
Roscommon Co Leages D1,2,3  round games finished last weekends.
Finals and relegation play offs next weekend or 2.
Before the split League Finals could be any time from November to February depending on when the rounds got completed.. Club Championship games were getting stuck in whatever they could. August games were being played at silly times to avoid the big County games on TV.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on July 11, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Posters here who don't see the benefits of the split season fall in to one of these buckets:
- has been so long since they've been involved in the club game that they can't remember how shit it was previously
- simply don't care much about the club game and are really only interested in the county game (at least Seafoid admits this!)
- from a county that doesn't have duel considerations so has never seen the full extend of what the condensed club calendar leads to

We only really know the intricacies of our own county's club championships. (I have a decent understanding on Dublin too as I live here, but have never been 'involved'). I am from a county which is genuinely duel ; a Division 1 hurling team where 80%+ of the players play football, and most at senior level. The only way (outside of reducing the number of games for club players) to run the championship previously was to start in April with 2 rounds, and then pause until the county teams were knocked out. So club players had to peak for 2 separate championship periods, the second of which they didn't have dates for until maybe 2 weeks prior. As I said above - it was shit. I'm involved now, albeit no longer as a player, and it is superb. We knew our championship dates in February (this would only have changed if Westmeath had made the 1/4 finals). There are no midweek championship games. The lads who play hurling have at least 7 days between championship games.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Sportacus on July 16, 2023, 12:18:03 PM
The minor semi-final is missed on a day like today.  That was a terrible decision in my opinion.  They were always part of the big day and were a platform for the young players.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 16, 2023, 12:25:33 PM
Does that mean that none of last week's Minor Finalists are going to make it because they got no "platform"?
What the eff is a "platform" anyway?
Is it a game played before a few thousand mainly disinterested folks in Croke Park instead of 13 or 14k partisan followers in Armagh or Roscommon?

Bishops throwing in the ball used be part of big games one time.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 01:17:44 PM
Quote from: shark on July 11, 2023, 10:42:14 AM
Posters here who don't see the benefits of the split season fall in to one of these buckets:
- has been so long since they've been involved in the club game that they can't remember how shit it was previously
- simply don't care much about the club game and are really only interested in the county game (at least Seafoid admits this!)
- from a county that doesn't have duel considerations so has never seen the full extend of what the condensed club calendar leads to

We only really know the intricacies of our own county's club championships. (I have a decent understanding on Dublin too as I live here, but have never been 'involved'). I am from a county which is genuinely duel ; a Division 1 hurling team where 80%+ of the players play football, and most at senior level. The only way (outside of reducing the number of games for club players) to run the championship previously was to start in April with 2 rounds, and then pause until the county teams were knocked out. So club players had to peak for 2 separate championship periods, the second of which they didn't have dates for until maybe 2 weeks prior. As I said above - it was shit. I'm involved now, albeit no longer as a player, and it is superb. We knew our championship dates in February (this would only have changed if Westmeath had made the 1/4 finals). There are no midweek championship games. The lads who play hurling have at least 7 days between championship games.
My  club was high achieving for a period in the late 90s and early 00s but as is the nature of things has fallen into relative mediocrity in recent years. If things changed I would of course be more interested.
It's important to make space for the clubs . This is more important than how individual people may feel about clubs.
My concern relates to lack of standardisation of county championships.  There also need to be a bit of give for the county system next year-maybe 3 or 4 weeks.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Sportacus on July 16, 2023, 01:23:06 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on July 16, 2023, 12:25:33 PM
Does that mean that none of last week's Minor Finalists are going to make it because they got no "platform"?
What the eff is a "platform" anyway?
Is it a game played before a few thousand mainly disinterested folks in Croke Park instead of 13 or 14k partisan followers in Armagh or Roscommon?

Bishops throwing in the ball used be part of big games one time.
Some traditions are more relevant than others.  Bishops throwing balls in was from a world that no longer exists. But I'd make a strong case for giving semi finalists and finalists the opportunity to play in Croke Park ahead of the Senior game. Those lucky enough to win an all Ireland minor and do the lap of honour after the game must have memories for a lifetime I'm sure. GAA sustains itself on certain traditions. This is one we threw away.
Personally I was at a lot of semifinals and always enjoyed the minor game, kept the programmes, watched out down the line for who came through at senior. Maybe just me then. (Don't know why it touched a nerve with you so much!).
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on July 16, 2023, 02:42:47 PM
Always enjoyed watching the minors before All Ireland finals. I remember the losing Galway team in 1994 featuring Joyce, Donnellan and Scan. 4 years later Joyce a and Donnellan won the All ireland. I think
the tradition should be maintained. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on July 16, 2023, 02:56:39 PM
Times change, all sorts of things change with the times.... except for certain residents of the 6 Cos of course who still live in 17th Century🍊

I'd say the Derry and Galway Minors have good memories too!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
I thought the Tailteann final should have been played  on the Sunday. Playing it on a  Saturday was  a bit demeaning, especially as  the  curtain raiser on  the Sunday is the All Ireland  junior football final  (Kilkenny v New York , if you're interested)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 03:01:23 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
I thought the Tailteann final should have been played  on the Sunday. Playing it on a  Saturday was  a bit demeaning, especially as  the  curtain raiser on  the Sunday is the All Ireland  junior football final  (Kilkenny v New York , if you're interested)

It's played before the semi final ffs!

Is it demeaning for Dublin to play their game on the Saturday?

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on July 16, 2023, 03:09:56 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
I thought the Tailteann final should have been played  on the Sunday. Playing it on a  Saturday was  a bit demeaning, especially as  the  curtain raiser on  the Sunday is the All Ireland  junior football final  (Kilkenny v New York , if you're interested)
Kilkenny 1-9 New York 0-13 the result of the Junior AI final today.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: armaghniac on July 16, 2023, 03:28:20 PM
I still don't understand why the Ladies moved their season as well. THis weekend they have 4 QFs, these would get a lot of attention in 3 or 4 weeks time, but this weekend is rather crowded.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 07:43:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 03:01:23 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
I thought the Tailteann final should have been played  on the Sunday. Playing it on a  Saturday was  a bit demeaning, especially as  the  curtain raiser on  the Sunday is the All Ireland  junior football final  (Kilkenny v New York , if you're interested)

It's played before the semi final ffs!

Is it demeaning for Dublin to play their game on the Saturday?

I know that.  But playing it on a Sunday  gives more down  and Meath fans the opportunity to attend .  Or watch on tv.  Not everyone are able to  attend on Saturday afternoons  .  It just seemed  that the JFC was more important than  the Tailteann final as it  was on the Sunday. And how many Kilkenny  and New York fans would have   been  inconvenienced  by that final being on the Saturday?  Not too many
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: westbound on July 16, 2023, 10:29:19 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 07:43:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 03:01:23 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
I thought the Tailteann final should have been played  on the Sunday. Playing it on a  Saturday was  a bit demeaning, especially as  the  curtain raiser on  the Sunday is the All Ireland  junior football final  (Kilkenny v New York , if you're interested)

It's played before the semi final ffs!

Is it demeaning for Dublin to play their game on the Saturday?

I know that.  But playing it on a Sunday  gives more down  and Meath fans the opportunity to attend .  Or watch on tv.  Not everyone are able to  attend on Saturday afternoons  .  It just seemed  that the JFC was more important than  the Tailteann final as it  was on the Sunday. And how many Kilkenny  and New York fans would have   been  inconvenienced  by that final being on the Saturday?  Not too many

It might have inconvenienced some of the players though, when you consider the semifinal was on friday night!!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on July 17, 2023, 12:29:15 PM
are some counties at later stages of championships already.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: AustinPowers on July 17, 2023, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: westbound on July 16, 2023, 10:29:19 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 07:43:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 03:01:23 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
I thought the Tailteann final should have been played  on the Sunday. Playing it on a  Saturday was  a bit demeaning, especially as  the  curtain raiser on  the Sunday is the All Ireland  junior football final  (Kilkenny v New York , if you're interested)

It's played before the semi final ffs!

Is it demeaning for Dublin to play their game on the Saturday?

I know that.  But playing it on a Sunday  gives more down  and Meath fans the opportunity to attend .  Or watch on tv.  Not everyone are able to  attend on Saturday afternoons  .  It just seemed  that the JFC was more important than  the Tailteann final as it  was on the Sunday. And how many Kilkenny  and New York fans would have   been  inconvenienced  by that final being on the Saturday?  Not too many

It might have inconvenienced some of the players though, when you consider the semifinal was on friday night!!

Didn't realise  that.  That was asking  a lot of players  to play 2 games  in that short a timeframe
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: westbound on July 18, 2023, 09:22:38 AM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 17, 2023, 08:42:24 PM
Quote from: westbound on July 16, 2023, 10:29:19 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 07:43:04 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 16, 2023, 03:01:23 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on July 16, 2023, 02:58:46 PM
I thought the Tailteann final should have been played  on the Sunday. Playing it on a  Saturday was  a bit demeaning, especially as  the  curtain raiser on  the Sunday is the All Ireland  junior football final  (Kilkenny v New York , if you're interested)

It's played before the semi final ffs!

Is it demeaning for Dublin to play their game on the Saturday?

I know that.  But playing it on a Sunday  gives more down  and Meath fans the opportunity to attend .  Or watch on tv.  Not everyone are able to  attend on Saturday afternoons  .  It just seemed  that the JFC was more important than  the Tailteann final as it  was on the Sunday. And how many Kilkenny  and New York fans would have   been  inconvenienced  by that final being on the Saturday?  Not too many

It might have inconvenienced some of the players though, when you consider the semifinal was on friday night!!

Didn't realise  that.  That was asking  a lot of players  to play 2 games  in that short a timeframe
It's been done that way for the last few years.  That's why the junior final had to be on sunday, it couldn't be saturday after playing the semifinal on friday.

I think it's done over one weekend to allow NY & London travel over once for both games instead of having to travel twice.  Whether that should be the way it's done or not I'm not sure, but that's why it is done!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 17, 2023, 08:54:45 AM
Summary of Club Championships progress in the Counties

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/with-club-game-the-only-show-in-town-what-is-state-of-nation/a27725552.html
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 17, 2023, 04:54:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 17, 2023, 08:54:45 AM
Summary of Club Championships progress in the Counties

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/with-club-game-the-only-show-in-town-what-is-state-of-nation/a27725552.html

County club finals in October and provincial finals in December pretty much the same as it was before the split season and with the split season wasn't it promised the club All-Ireland series would be completed in a calendar year?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on August 22, 2023, 03:24:47 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 17, 2023, 04:54:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 17, 2023, 08:54:45 AM
Summary of Club Championships progress in the Counties

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/with-club-game-the-only-show-in-town-what-is-state-of-nation/a27725552.html

County club finals in October and provincial finals in December pretty much the same as it was before the split season and with the split season wasn't it promised the club All-Ireland series would be completed in a calendar year?

a lot of counties have introduced round robin/backdoor club championships as they've more time to play them out. Back in the day most were straight knockout so all year a club player was toiling for one game potentially.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 22, 2023, 03:37:29 PM
The efficient Kilkenny football championship is an example to the rest of the country.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 22, 2023, 03:42:33 PM
If they could run a month off before May it would make a huge difference. I still think club championships should be standardised. Too many sacrifices have been made for the deal not to be delivered on both sides.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 22, 2023, 03:42:49 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 22, 2023, 03:24:47 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on August 17, 2023, 04:54:35 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 17, 2023, 08:54:45 AM
Summary of Club Championships progress in the Counties

https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/with-club-game-the-only-show-in-town-what-is-state-of-nation/a27725552.html

County club finals in October and provincial finals in December pretty much the same as it was before the split season and with the split season wasn't it promised the club All-Ireland series would be completed in a calendar year?

a lot of counties have introduced round robin/backdoor club championships as they've more time to play them out. Back in the day most were straight knockout so all year a club player was toiling for one game potentially.

"One bite of the cherry" That's phrase you won't hear to often in the counties, Tyrone run the championship at its purest form, while it may not help them come Ulster they certainly leave everything on the pitch on the day of the game.

If the Fav team hasn't brought their A game then the upset is their, but the top team in round robin or groups generally get their act together to progress!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 22, 2023, 04:11:22 PM
Cheddar said this experiment needs a few years for full visibility. It's too complex for a 2 year Congress cycle.

ttps://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"Every player now, you can never relax fully. You need to be ticking over in the down season. I think that maintenance work is going to ramp up even more in the next couple of years because of the split-season."


"I would like to see some definite down-time for all players," says Cheddar. "Even those last couple of weeks of the year. Everyone needs a break, even mentally.

"Take TJ Reid for example, one of the best hurlers of any generation, over the last few seasons he is playing well into the year with inter-county and then into the following year with his club Ballyhale.

"You probably have to have a bit of flexibility in year one but I would expect the GAA authorities to tighten up with that.
"I do think some counties do have to slim down to 12-team or 16-team championships to have them run off properly in a calendar season. I can understand the reasons why some counties have a Senior B championship but clear out all that rubbish, make it Senior, Intermediate and then Junior 1, Junior 2 etc.

"I think if all counties had that it would be much easier then to schedule games to make sure that your All-Ireland club championship is going to be held on the second Sunday in December."

"The championship needs to be a bit longer, it's compressed a little bit too much"



"I think the split-season has been quite successful but I certainly wouldn't jump into it for the next 10 years without giving it really good thought about all the aspects," he says. "Particularly how you're going to grow the game and keep it at the forefront for young people.

"Having it last year was really good because it gave us a sense of what it looks like. But what are we comparing that against
? We would have to have, for example, a blended season or something to compare it with.

There may not be enough time in 6 months to run off everything clubs want. Running the club finals in Jan is not ideal  either.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 22, 2023, 04:24:47 PM
Apart from the TC what other reforms of the split season would you approve of?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: marty34 on August 22, 2023, 05:25:39 PM
I think the problem is that the earlier a county team is knocked out of their championship, the sooner they can start their club championship, so all the counties are not starting from the same base so to speak.

Say for example Limerick or Dublin, they were in the AIF so they can't really start until that's over.

I presume Cheddar means that the county chsmpionship should be extended for another few weeks?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on August 23, 2023, 10:51:46 AM
I fail to see how anyone can say the split season is nothing but a success for the majority of active GAA playing members.

For every TJ Reid in Kilkenny/Ballyhale there's hundreds if not thousands of club players getting to play meaningful club championship games at the height of summer.

This agenda that games are losing publicity to soccer, rugby, cricket or tennis I don't buy it, plus the old way meant there was regularly 3 plus weeks between games, the very same intercounty players were complaining about the games to training ratios and CB's were out a fortune paying these backroom staffs for a prolonged period of time.

There's two weeks from the end of the round robins to the respective Provincial finals (hurling that is), then there's two weeks to the AI quarterfinals with another two weeks to the semi-finals and similar gap of two weeks to the final. I see no issues with that, come third in the round robin you'll be out more than that, but there has to be a jeopardy in not winning to make it worthwhile.

In the round robin series no team plays more than two weeks in a row on the bounce. Is that a big ask now?

The post provincial football championship formats to me look to be games for the sake of it, if only 1 team in four get eliminated, is that correct?

It's those lads in the media who need to fill column inches and get paid for their punditry shouting the most, wonder why?


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 23, 2023, 11:28:57 AM
All county championships should be knockout.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on August 23, 2023, 12:04:12 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 23, 2023, 11:28:57 AM
All county championships should be knockout.

Should the Sam Maguire be as well?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 23, 2023, 12:34:19 PM
All championships should be finalised by a fixed date and  the consequences worked backwards. December should be GAA free. Players deserve a break.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 23, 2023, 12:49:10 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 23, 2023, 12:04:12 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 23, 2023, 11:28:57 AM
All county championships should be knockout.

Should the Sam Maguire be as well?

probably but they wont go with a 16 team knockout
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 23, 2023, 12:56:27 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 23, 2023, 11:28:57 AM
All county championships should be knockout.
Why?
So lads will have more time for soccer and fkn rugger?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 23, 2023, 12:57:28 PM
they can play league matches.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Saffrongael on August 23, 2023, 01:16:03 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on August 23, 2023, 12:57:28 PM
they can play league matches.

League matches have all been played
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 23, 2023, 01:17:03 PM
maybe they should have started league and championship later or had a break between them
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 23, 2023, 01:19:11 PM
Would there be interest in a league tournament like the all Ireland club series, for the county league winners?

Dates and timings always difficult but promoting the league can have benefits too

County League winners are generally not always County champions running something like that would lift the importance of playing well in the league, clubs are hampered who have county players but thats always hard to facilitate until championship but open to debate?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 23, 2023, 01:22:17 PM
was actually going to say maybe league winners can be get a place in the provincial club championships tho that might take some shine of winning the county championship  it would doulble the size of provincial club championships so more revenue for provincial councils.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 23, 2023, 03:19:35 PM
This applies to club as much as county.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/26/denis-walsh-everyone-left-in-the-hurling-championship-is-racing-against-time/
"There is an emotional component to championship matches that doesn't exist week-in, week-out in the bread-and-butter leagues of professional sports. In the GAA, emotional investment is what distinguishes the seasons. Those emotions can't be kept on a boilerplate, they need time to cool and heat."


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 28, 2023, 10:03:17 AM
I wanted to compare the club setups around the country but there was enough statistical significance in 5.
The problem with the clubs is the all Ireland at the end. Leinster and Ulster need 4 weekends to run off . The all Ireland is another 2.

County Boards are incredibly busy running off myriad competitions.

Here are 5 counties with latest status this weekend.

Laois
Number in Round Robin Groups : 8

Latest RRG round : 3


http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=31915.0
https://laoisgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?owner=2160&orderTBCLast=Y&resultsOnly=Y&noTBC=Y&showByeGames=N&compStyle=football

2.Antrim. Already at quarter final stage

3. Derry
RRG group size : 6
Latest RRG group : 4
https://derrygaa.ie/results/?countyBoardID=7&resultsOnly=Y&daysPrevious=28&reverseDateOrder=Y

4. Galway
RRGs 3
Size of RRG : 6
Latest round 3

5. Tyrone
It's a knockout .
So there are 32 different systems.
This is not good enough especially with the provincial/all Ireland at the end.

If there are qfs add 3
Add 4 for provincial
Add 2 for all Ireland
That's 9 weeks.
Add a margin.

The player load has been moved to the clubs. Especially dual clubs.

I counted 13 weeks to the first week in December.


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 28, 2023, 10:09:13 AM
Only around 7or 8% of Clubs get to play in those Provincial Competitions, half them get ONE GAME in it.
A far higher percentage of Clubs are finished by mid/lare September.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 28, 2023, 10:19:58 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 28, 2023, 10:09:13 AM
Only around 7or 8% of Clubs get to play in those Provincial Competitions, half them get ONE GAME in it.
A far higher percentage of Clubs are finished by mid/lare September.
What counts is those left in and how long it takes to run off. The highest demands are on the best players. This was one of the problems with the club all Ireland fiasco earlier this year. There was no time for a replay.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/23/glen-express-disappointment-at-gaas-failure-to-review-breach-of-rules/


A rematch the likely resolution. Although Mullin had no material impact on the play that unfolded – he didn't touch the ball – there is a view that it's impossible to infer what would have happened had the correct number of players been on the field.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 28, 2023, 01:10:33 PM
would a few counties have only club activity during summer and early autumn do some counties only have like 7 league games in tyrone they  have 15 plus any playoffs.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: SCFC on August 28, 2023, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 28, 2023, 10:03:17 AM
I wanted to compare the club setups around the country but there was enough statistical significance in 5.
The problem with the clubs is the all Ireland at the end. Leinster and Ulster need 4 weekends to run off . The all Ireland is another 2.

County Boards are incredibly busy running off myriad competitions.

Here are 5 counties with latest status this weekend.

Laois
Number in Round Robin Groups : 8

Latest RRG round : 3


http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=31915.0
https://laoisgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?owner=2160&orderTBCLast=Y&resultsOnly=Y&noTBC=Y&showByeGames=N&compStyle=football

2.Antrim. Already at quarter final stage

3. Derry
RRG group size : 6
Latest RRG group : 4
https://derrygaa.ie/results/?countyBoardID=7&resultsOnly=Y&daysPrevious=28&reverseDateOrder=Y

4. Galway
RRGs 3
Size of RRG : 6
Latest round 3

5. Tyrone
It's a knockout .
So there are 32 different systems.
This is not good enough especially with the provincial/all Ireland at the end.

If there are qfs add 3
Add 4 for provincial
Add 2 for all Ireland
That's 9 weeks.
Add a margin.

The player load has been moved to the clubs. Especially dual clubs.

I counted 13 weeks to the first week in December.
Laois SFC doesn't have round robin groups. It has an open draw for 16 teams with a backdoor and a SFC "B" and relegation process for those who don't make the quarter finals.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 29, 2023, 07:25:12 AM
Quote from: SCFC on August 28, 2023, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 28, 2023, 10:03:17 AM
I wanted to compare the club setups around the country but there was enough statistical significance in 5.
The problem with the clubs is the all Ireland at the end. Leinster and Ulster need 4 weekends to run off . The all Ireland is another 2.

County Boards are incredibly busy running off myriad competitions.

Here are 5 counties with latest status this weekend.

Laois
Number in Round Robin Groups : 8

Latest RRG round : 3


http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=31915.0
https://laoisgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?owner=2160&orderTBCLast=Y&resultsOnly=Y&noTBC=Y&showByeGames=N&compStyle=football

2.Antrim. Already at quarter final stage

3. Derry
RRG group size : 6
Latest RRG group : 4
https://derrygaa.ie/results/?countyBoardID=7&resultsOnly=Y&daysPrevious=28&reverseDateOrder=Y

4. Galway
RRGs 3
Size of RRG : 6
Latest round 3

5. Tyrone
It's a knockout .
So there are 32 different systems.
This is not good enough especially with the provincial/all Ireland at the end.

If there are qfs add 3
Add 4 for provincial
Add 2 for all Ireland
That's 9 weeks.
Add a margin.

The player load has been moved to the clubs. Especially dual clubs.

I counted 13 weeks to the first week in December.
Laois SFC doesn't have round robin groups. It has an open draw for 16 teams with a backdoor and a SFC "B" and relegation process for those who don't make the quarter finals.
Thanks for the clarification. There is no consistency at county level.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 29, 2023, 07:55:15 AM
How do Clubs in Laois treat the SFC "B"?
Is there any incentive to win it?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on August 29, 2023, 09:32:16 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 29, 2023, 07:55:15 AM
How do Clubs in Laois treat the SFC "B"?
Is there any incentive to win it?

Would winning it not keep you in SFC "A" for next year?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on August 29, 2023, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 29, 2023, 07:25:12 AM
Quote from: SCFC on August 28, 2023, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 28, 2023, 10:03:17 AM
I wanted to compare the club setups around the country but there was enough statistical significance in 5.
The problem with the clubs is the all Ireland at the end. Leinster and Ulster need 4 weekends to run off . The all Ireland is another 2.

County Boards are incredibly busy running off myriad competitions.

Here are 5 counties with latest status this weekend.

Laois
Number in Round Robin Groups : 8

Latest RRG round : 3


http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=31915.0
https://laoisgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?owner=2160&orderTBCLast=Y&resultsOnly=Y&noTBC=Y&showByeGames=N&compStyle=football

2.Antrim. Already at quarter final stage

3. Derry
RRG group size : 6
Latest RRG group : 4
https://derrygaa.ie/results/?countyBoardID=7&resultsOnly=Y&daysPrevious=28&reverseDateOrder=Y

4. Galway
RRGs 3
Size of RRG : 6
Latest round 3

5. Tyrone
It's a knockout .
So there are 32 different systems.
This is not good enough especially with the provincial/all Ireland at the end.

If there are qfs add 3
Add 4 for provincial
Add 2 for all Ireland
That's 9 weeks.
Add a margin.

The player load has been moved to the clubs. Especially dual clubs.

I counted 13 weeks to the first week in December.
Laois SFC doesn't have round robin groups. It has an open draw for 16 teams with a backdoor and a SFC "B" and relegation process for those who don't make the quarter finals.
Thanks for the clarification. There is no consistency at county level.

There doesn't need to be.

Each county is entitled to organise their club games they see fit. Cork and Kerry allow amalgamations/regional teams in their club champions, most others don't.

Tyrone are one of the few counties who run off a knock out championship, so if that's what the clubs want then fire on I say.

Down hurling has a round robin hurling championship, probably due to the low number of clubs whereas the Down senior football championship has a back door where teams beaten in the first round get a second bite at the cherry.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 29, 2023, 02:25:02 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 29, 2023, 10:34:18 AM
Quote from: seafoid on August 29, 2023, 07:25:12 AM
Quote from: SCFC on August 28, 2023, 11:56:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 28, 2023, 10:03:17 AM
I wanted to compare the club setups around the country but there was enough statistical significance in 5.
The problem with the clubs is the all Ireland at the end. Leinster and Ulster need 4 weekends to run off . The all Ireland is another 2.

County Boards are incredibly busy running off myriad competitions.

Here are 5 counties with latest status this weekend.

Laois
Number in Round Robin Groups : 8

Latest RRG round : 3


http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=31915.0
https://laoisgaa.ie/fixtures-results/?owner=2160&orderTBCLast=Y&resultsOnly=Y&noTBC=Y&showByeGames=N&compStyle=football

2.Antrim. Already at quarter final stage

3. Derry
RRG group size : 6
Latest RRG group : 4
https://derrygaa.ie/results/?countyBoardID=7&resultsOnly=Y&daysPrevious=28&reverseDateOrder=Y

4. Galway
RRGs 3
Size of RRG : 6
Latest round 3

5. Tyrone
It's a knockout .
So there are 32 different systems.
This is not good enough especially with the provincial/all Ireland at the end.

If there are qfs add 3
Add 4 for provincial
Add 2 for all Ireland
That's 9 weeks.
Add a margin.

The player load has been moved to the clubs. Especially dual clubs.

I counted 13 weeks to the first week in December.
Laois SFC doesn't have round robin groups. It has an open draw for 16 teams with a backdoor and a SFC "B" and relegation process for those who don't make the quarter finals.
Thanks for the clarification. There is no consistency at county level.

There doesn't need to be.

Each county is entitled to organise their club games they see fit. Cork and Kerry allow amalgamations/regional teams in their club champions, most others don't.

Tyrone are one of the few counties who run off a knock out championship, so if that's what the clubs want then fire on I say.

Down hurling has a round robin hurling championship, probably due to the low number of clubs whereas the Down senior football championship has a back door where teams beaten in the first round get a second bite at the cherry.
That was true but in the new system they have to run it off in the calendar year. They can't.  It's very GAA.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: trailer on August 29, 2023, 03:07:57 PM
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2023/08/28/news/_what_does_championship_football_mean_-_club_scene_being_diluted_as_counties_struggle_to_adapt_to_split_season-3565581/ (https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2023/08/28/news/_what_does_championship_football_mean_-_club_scene_being_diluted_as_counties_struggle_to_adapt_to_split_season-3565581/)

Good read
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: joemamas on August 29, 2023, 06:06:44 PM
It is a huge success if you are a FAI or Rugger administrator or supporter.
I will challenge anyone to some up with GAA coverage on RTE, Independent or Irish Times from August 3rd to January 31st.
The Saturday edition of Times on August 5th (week after the all-Ireland) had 3 pages of Soccer, 2 pages of Rugby, one horse racing, 1/3 gaelic games.
It will be like that until next January, barring the odd manager change or retirement.
Wonderful PR move by GAA. You really could not make it up.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 29, 2023, 06:46:36 PM
Quote from: joemamas on August 29, 2023, 06:06:44 PM
It is a huge success if you are a FAI or Rugger administrator or supporter.
I will challenge anyone to some up with GAA coverage on RTE, Independent or Irish Times from August 3rd to January 31st.
The Saturday edition of Times on August 5th (week after the all-Ireland) had 3 pages of Soccer, 2 pages of Rugby, one horse racing, 1/3 gaelic games.
It will be like that until next January, barring the odd manager change or retirement.
Wonderful PR move by GAA. You really could not make it up.
Sunday sport on RTE had maybe 20 minutes GAA last Sunday  with a Jimmy McGuinness discussion and something about the new Cavan manager. It was athletics, rugby, horseracing and soccer for the rest of the 5 hours
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 29, 2023, 10:16:10 PM
If we need 11 months of Co gaelic games fir the Independent and Times when do Club Championships get played?

There were probably 600 to 700 adult Championship games played each weekend in August.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on August 29, 2023, 10:20:39 PM
Why does it even matter? If the GAA cared about it enough, they could market direct to consumer. And they wouldn't be doing that via newspapers that nobody under 40 reads.
The all Ireland hurling final had practically no media build up as the teams involved wouldn't engage. That has nothing to do with the game being played in July instead of September.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 30, 2023, 06:06:16 AM




https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/earlier-start-to-inter-county-season-flagged-in-latest-review/a1520625182.html


Earlier start to inter-county season flagged in latest review

League finals to stay but other ways to create calendar gaps on the table

An earlier start to the inter-county season remains a possibility as the GAA's Central Competition Controls Committee seeks to create a gap in the calendar between league football finals and the start of the provincial football championships.

This year Mayo played a Division 1 league final against Galway seven days before their Connacht quarter-final against Roscommon which they lost. Sligo had a Division 4 final against Wicklow the week before they played London in the Connacht Championship while Wicklow were out against Carlow in the Leinster Championship within the same timeframe.

At the July Central Council there was a view established that league finals should be retained but efforts to create a better window between league and championship should be made.

This has led to a follow on survey for counties to answer which has been circulated ahead of a further Central Council meeting on the weekend after next that will determine what tweaks, if any, to the 2024 calendar should be made.



Among the discussion points raised by CCCC in their latest communication to the counties are the possibility of bringing forward to start of the leagues by one week (January 20/21 in 2024) and playing league finals on the last weekend in March instead of the first weekend in April.

Doing that however would require the All-Ireland club finals to be brought forward by one week to January 13/14 which in turn would require provincial club championships to start a week earlier than already scheduled and perhaps mean counties reviewing their current county final dates.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 30, 2023, 11:50:00 AM
60% of Cos apparently want football League Finals abolished plus the CCCC.
Any proposals for changing the Hurley stuff League which seems to have as many knock out rounds as League Rounds. Why can't they have Divisions 1,2,3 etc instead of 2A, 2B etc?

As for the Split season I wonder could those decrying it (Spillane, Breheny and others) ever give us their solutions?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Louther on August 30, 2023, 12:09:22 PM
Quote from: joemamas on August 29, 2023, 06:06:44 PM
It is a huge success if you are a FAI or Rugger administrator or supporter.
I will challenge anyone to some up with GAA coverage on RTE, Independent or Irish Times from August 3rd to January 31st.
The Saturday edition of Times on August 5th (week after the all-Ireland) had 3 pages of Soccer, 2 pages of Rugby, one horse racing, 1/3 gaelic games.
It will be like that until next January, barring the odd manager change or retirement.
Wonderful PR move by GAA. You really could not make it up.

What is this PR that you talk of and what is the goal of it? Barring the odd manager talk we get very little during the season. God forbid a player would actually speak or a county would hold a media day or the like.
We got months of PR and had lots of coverage and for what gain? Is more little Johnies or Mary's playing now cause they read an interview with Dessie Farrell in the Indo in May? Or are more little Johnies and Mary's playing now cause their clubs and counties have been slogging  away all year getting into schools, running training sessions, organising blitz's, holding camps, etc

The PR of the GAA is on your doorsteps. In a few weeks times there will be countless parishes alive with talk of county finals at various levels, underage teams are celebrating wins already, their own social media channels are alive with content from friends and rivals, local papers be covering the games and at some stage the national media will row in as well. Clubs and counties like never before are streaming matches to reach out to the local community.

If you waiting on the national media, you'll be waiting. The PR is there, it's just some who don't care or want to see it.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 30, 2023, 12:20:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 30, 2023, 11:50:00 AM
60% of Cos apparently want football League Finals abolished plus the CCCC.
Any proposals for changing the Hurley stuff League which seems to have as many knock out rounds as League Rounds. Why can't they have Divisions 1,2,3 etc instead of 2A, 2B etc?

As for the Split season I wonder could those decrying it (Spillane, Breheny and others) ever give us their solutions?
Hurling is played at different levels. So is football but nobody wants to talk about it. The hurling league below div 1 is a development league.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on August 30, 2023, 01:25:00 PM
if they get rid hurling leagues will they make the all ireland an open draw and get rid of provincials i cant see provincial councils being happy with that.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 31, 2023, 08:17:25 AM
The big difference between the current split season and the previous arrangements relates to the number of matches that  every team plays

For the split season what counts is what has changed.

For the Sam Maguire and Tailteann there are now 4 round robin groups of 4 . Each group generates 6 matches. 3(matches per team)*4(number of teams)/2(teams per match) is the formula.
The total for "obligatory" matches is 6 (games)*4(groups) *2(competitions) = 48

For club there are lots of variations but say that 2 round robin groups of 8 replace the "Tyrone system" of 16 sudden death.
1 round robin group of 8 generates 7 (matches per team)*8 (number of teams)/2 (teams per match) =28 matches. Multiply by 2 = 56

The core group effected is the "county players" who are club stars and play with the  county. Every county is impacted because of the Tailteann.
Clifford is  one of them. He won a club all Ireland with Fossa in Jan and played in the final versus Dublin. He is probably back playing club.
He may be the best thing since sliced bread but he is playing too many matches. So are the rest of them.

The ESRI report focused on player welfare. The GAA got hooked.

I don't object to the concept of the split season if the hurling season is released from the orbit of football . But I would like the club and county systems to be sustainable.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on August 31, 2023, 08:22:48 AM
Seafoid your point about too many matches would hold more weight if there was some way to stop players being flogged to death by coaches when they don't have matches.

My club starting training last November for a D2 club league starting in April.

GAA players and managers are pretty much to a man all fucken mad in the head. Honestly I wouldn't be worried about their welfare. They thrive on pushing themselves to places they don't need to go.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on August 31, 2023, 08:26:40 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on August 31, 2023, 08:22:48 AM
Seafoid your point about too many matches would hold more weight if there was some way to stop players being flogged to death by coaches when they don't have matches.

My club starting training last November for a D2 club league starting in April.

GAA players and managers are pretty much to a man all fucken mad in the head. Honestly I wouldn't be worried about their welfare. They thrive on pushing themselves to places they don't need to go.
This is very good


https://westernpeople.ie/2022/09/10/gaa-must-remain-strong-on-the-split-season/
Another major difference in club football is the physical shape that club players are in now in comparison to 20 years ago. I'm not sure if players are more skilful today than yore but they are definitely stronger, faster and more athletic. Every young man now who is playing adult football has square shoulders, a broad back and big legs. The days of having the odd pot-bellied, paunchy corner-back is a thing of the past. Don't get me wrong, players at the highest level of club football in every generation were supremely fit but training in times gone by was based on lots of running and little scientific strength work. When I started playing senior football we ran a lot and were lean and wiry but serious club players now are much more gym-hewn and conditioned to the needs of modern-day GAA.

Just looking at the programmes from the different games over the weekend and it was noticeable how many teams have an S&C coach named in their extensive backroom teams. Once upon time if a team had a "trainer" or "coach" listed in their ranks they were considered avant-garde but in today's setups those roles are an absolute given. Most clubs nationwide now also have modern, well kitted out gyms on their grounds so there is little excuse for players not to be in tip-top shape. Young men nowadays are also much more aware of good practice in health, fitness and nutrition having access to a wealth of top-quality information via social media on smart phones.
Maybe it's because I am getting older, but I find that you need to be fitter for club football now than in the past. There is more high-speed movement due to each player's increased athleticism. Even as a corner-forward, I have noticed that I am doing much more running, especially in a defensive sense, because nearly every opposition kick-out is going short to the corner-backs or wing-backs so there is much more tackling and tracking for us forwards.


From an attacking perspective, shorter kick-outs also mean slower build-up play as teams carry the ball methodically through the lines, maintaining possession and trying to create an overlap or punch holes in their opponent's rearguards with hard runners from deep. Very few kickouts are kicked long any more but God be with the days when the goalie would drive his kickout to midfield and a few big men would fight to catch it cleanly or a few groundhogs would wrestle for the breaks before launching a long, direct kick pass into the full-forward line.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on August 31, 2023, 08:30:00 AM
There's always Junior B ;)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on August 31, 2023, 11:33:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on August 31, 2023, 08:17:25 AM
The big difference between the current split season and the previous arrangements relates to the number of matches that  every team plays

For the split season what counts is what has changed.

For the Sam Maguire and Tailteann there are now 4 round robin groups of 4 . Each group generates 6 matches. 3(matches per team)*4(number of teams)/2(teams per match) is the formula.
The total for "obligatory" matches is 6 (games)*4(groups) *2(competitions) = 48

For club there are lots of variations but say that 2 round robin groups of 8 replace the "Tyrone system" of 16 sudden death.
1 round robin group of 8 generates 7 (matches per team)*8 (number of teams)/2 (teams per match) =28 matches. Multiply by 2 = 56

The core group effected is the "county players" who are club stars and play with the  county. Every county is impacted because of the Tailteann.
Clifford is  one of them. He won a club all Ireland with Fossa in Jan and played in the final versus Dublin. He is probably back playing club.
He may be the best thing since sliced bread but he is playing too many matches. So are the rest of them.

The ESRI report focused on player welfare. The GAA got hooked.

I don't object to the concept of the split season if the hurling season is released from the orbit of football . But I would like the club and county systems to be sustainable.

Agreed

Whilst the straight knockout format is a little harsh (I'd prefer a 'back door' style arrangement where all teams get a second go at things), the recent f**king obsession with round robin style competitions needs to stop.

The GAA's biggest issue is that there aren't enough weeks in the year - but they've only themselves to blame because every competition in the country (barring the Tyrone SFC it seems) needs 50 games to be played before a team is knocked out.

Cut out this shite, organise the championships with 2nd chance back door format and everyone goes home happy

Also, with regard to your point about Clifford - if we have to disadvantage the best to facilitate the masses, that's a price worth paying in the grand scheme of things
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: From the Bunker on August 31, 2023, 11:43:33 PM
Quote from: Franko on August 31, 2023, 11:33:08 PM

Also, with regard to your point about Clifford - if we have to disadvantage the best to facilitate the masses, that's a price worth paying in the grand scheme of things

If Kerry want to involved Clifford in two County Championships (Fossa and East Kerry) every year - that's their business.
If Kerry want to enter skewed Intermediate and Junior Champions into the Munster and AI Club championship where they know they have a 80% chance of winning - that's there business also. But don't expect sympathy for player fatigue or burn-out from the rest of us.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Aaron Boone on August 31, 2023, 11:45:45 PM
Tyrone leading again. They just seem to be the forerunners in every aspect.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 01, 2023, 08:51:46 AM
Quote from: Aaron Boone on August 31, 2023, 11:45:45 PM
Tyrone leading again. They just seem to be forerunners in every aspect very poor in the Ulster club championship 8)

Fixed that
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 09:21:04 AM
That's what happens when your main aim is to have teams play as few games as possible with half the teams only getting 1 game.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 09:39:40 AM
Tipperary are the same in the hurling. The focus  is the county team.
The usual profile of a successful club team is the background of a county not currently at the top table eg Corofin's 3 in a row, St Brigids
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 01, 2023, 09:43:16 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 09:21:04 AM
That's what happens when your main aim is to have teams play as few games as possible with half the teams only getting 1 game.
Clubs have a league. Championship should be knockout or at best 1 back door. Why would the main aim of the championship be to have a league format. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 11:40:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.
Hope is thinking something is worth working for. Optimism is thinking things will work out.
If County Boards genuinely want group stages and leagues and knockout , lets see how they feel after 5 years of injuries and burnout.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: NAG1 on September 01, 2023, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 11:40:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.
Hope is thinking something is worth working for. Optimism is thinking things will work out.
If County Boards genuinely want group stages and leagues and knockout , lets see how they feel after 5 years of injuries and burnout.

I would say that any burn out that is occurring it more down to paid coaches trying to justify their presence by over training. Would like to see the training to game ratio.

Players want to play games.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on September 01, 2023, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 11:40:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.
Hope is thinking something is worth working for. Optimism is thinking things will work out.
If County Boards genuinely want group stages and leagues and knockout , lets see how they feel after 5 years of injuries and burnout.

Players want group stages. Have you chatted to many? County boards do as they are instructed by clubs. More games is always the preferred option. If they don't have them they'll be training in its place.
These changes were driven by players , for players. Players love the changes. Let it be lads.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:55:28 AM
Well said Shark.
A player with a D1 Club in Ros would play a maximum of 18 games over 8 months from 1st March to end of October - 34 weekends.
11 League rounds, League Final, 3 Championship group games and 3 k.o. games up to Co Final.
A player with a D2/Inter Championship  team could have a minimum of 13 games over 27 weekends from 1/3 to we 2/3 Sept.
9 League rounds, 3 Championship group games and a play off game.

No one will be burnt out from Club games anyway.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Taylor on September 01, 2023, 12:10:07 PM
Quote from: shark on September 01, 2023, 11:50:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 11:40:52 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.
Hope is thinking something is worth working for. Optimism is thinking things will work out.
If County Boards genuinely want group stages and leagues and knockout , lets see how they feel after 5 years of injuries and burnout.

Players want group stages. Have you chatted to many? County boards do as they are instructed by clubs. More games is always the preferred option. If they don't have them they'll be training in its place.
These changes were driven by players , for players. Players love the changes. Let it be lads.

+1

Knockout stages are great for excitment and the buzz of the cship but no reason why there cant be group games before it.

As you rughtly say Shark - its not as if the players are resting - they are training like demons for the ko games. Any player I know would absolutely prefer to play games rather than train
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: square_ball on September 01, 2023, 12:35:57 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.

Tell the 5 All Ireland medalists on show last weekend that it was a bit of exercise when they were busting their balls for their clubs in the game between Coalisland and Edendork trying to keep their clubs up in D1. 15 league games in Tyrone (at least 10 played with the full compliment of county players) all run off before your do or die championship match - it work 100% and have yet to hear any player come out and say differently. Just because other counties have made a hash of their leagues doesn't mean Tyrone have to go the way of the rest and play dead rubber 'championship' games before the real thing starts.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 12:47:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:55:28 AM
Well said Shark.
A player with a D1 Club in Ros would play a maximum of 18 games over 8 months from 1st March to end of October - 34 weekends.
11 League rounds, League Final, 3 Championship group games and 3 k.o. games up to Co Final.
A player with a D2/Inter Championship  team could have a minimum of 13 games over 27 weekends from 1/3 to we 2/3 Sept.
9 League rounds, 3 Championship group games and a play off game.

No one will be burnt out from Club games anyway.

How many games will Enda smith play in total?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 01, 2023, 12:49:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.
But I'm not complaining about the other 31 counties.  Each to their own. If they want to water down the "on the day" format of championship football then so be it. Just not something I would want for our county championship. The Tyrone championship is one of the most exciting (Not best before MR2 gets involved!!) about imo because of the chance of upsets. The league is there to give regular football. The championship is do or die. Not do a bit, then do a bit more, then do again until we ensure the best get to play in the big games.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on September 01, 2023, 01:18:18 PM

Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 12:47:40 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:55:28 AM
Well said Shark.
A player with a D1 Club in Ros would play a maximum of 18 games over 8 months from 1st March to end of October - 34 weekends.
11 League rounds, League Final, 3 Championship group games and 3 k.o. games up to Co Final.
A player with a D2/Inter Championship  team could have a minimum of 13 games over 27 weekends from 1/3 to we 2/3 Sept.
9 League rounds, 3 Championship group games and a play off game.

No one will be burnt out from Club games anyway.

How many games will Enda Smith play in total?

The same number as previously. We are done allowing concerns over the tiny minority dictate the schedules of the vast majority. And have you asked any county players what they think of the new split season? 100% of those I've spoken to prefer it now.
Counties like Tyrone can do as they please , but they can't be a template for everyone. For a start , they don't have to consider having to leave 50% of weekends for hurling.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 01:20:03 PM
Enda had 6 weeks without a game after the Cork debacle . Had a holiday away during that as well.
Not counting the silly Dome games-
County - 7 NFL, 2 Connacht, 4 AI.
3 Group games, probably  Qtr Final, hardly go any further.
17 likely, could be 19 if they make Co Final.
That 19 would be over around 40 weekends.

PS Shark, was reading earlier in Dexaminer that the Limerick hurling players are only delighted with the split season.






Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on September 01, 2023, 07:14:07 PM
The players all seem happy. Club lads and County boys can plan holidays.
The clubs aren't having to drag a season out if it's starting later too.
Of course there are issues but a lot of that stems from County boards who can mess up most things.

In terms of the Player welfare for County fellas, their games to training ratio must be much better and that should mean they are not dogged out of it as much.

Lads would be in gyms, playing conditioned challenge games plus field training in the old system.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 07:36:27 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 01, 2023, 12:49:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.
But I'm not complaining about the other 31 counties.  Each to their own. If they want to water down the "on the day" format of championship football then so be it. Just not something I would want for our county championship. The Tyrone championship is one of the most exciting (Not best before MR2 gets involved!!) about imo because of the chance of upsets. The championship is do or die.
Our Championships become do or die, on the day, knock out and all that.
But YOU HAVE TO QUALIFY  for that stage.
A Championship is to find the best team and our systems facilitate that unlike the lottery stuff in Tyrone.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 01, 2023, 07:41:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 07:36:27 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 01, 2023, 12:49:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.
But I'm not complaining about the other 31 counties.  Each to their own. If they want to water down the "on the day" format of championship football then so be it. Just not something I would want for our county championship. The Tyrone championship is one of the most exciting (Not best before MR2 gets involved!!) about imo because of the chance of upsets. The championship is do or die.
Our Championships become do or die, on the day, knock out and all that.
But YOU HAVE TO QUALIFY  for that stage.
A Championship is to find the best team and our systems facilitate that unlike the lottery stuff in Tyrone.
Is that not the point of a championship? The underdogs can have their day and don't need to qualify through a mini league that favours the top teams? You qualify for your level of championship based on what division you play in. Romance is dead in Roscommon. Long live the knock out.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 01, 2023, 08:22:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 01, 2023, 07:41:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 07:36:27 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 01, 2023, 12:49:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.
But I'm not complaining about the other 31 counties.  Each to their own. If they want to water down the "on the day" format of championship football then so be it. Just not something I would want for our county championship. The Tyrone championship is one of the most exciting (Not best before MR2 gets involved!!) about imo because of the chance of upsets. The championship is do or die.
Our Championships become do or die, on the day, knock out and all that.
But YOU HAVE TO QUALIFY  for that stage.
A Championship is to find the best team and our systems facilitate that unlike the lottery stuff in Tyrone.
Is that not the point of a championship? The underdogs can have their day and don't need to qualify through a mini league that favours the top teams? You qualify for your level of championship based on what division you play in. Romance is dead in Roscommon. Long live the knock out.

Knock out does give the underdog a better chance and to be fair there is a straight knock out system in Roscommon after the group stage and from it last year you had Strokestown winning the county title who I don't think had played in a final for 20 years and their opponents Boyle reached their first Roscommon final in 95 years.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 01, 2023, 09:02:31 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 01, 2023, 08:22:04 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 01, 2023, 07:41:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 07:36:27 PM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on September 01, 2023, 12:49:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 11:28:51 AM
You're entitled to your opinion but the majority of Counties favour a group system followed by the best teams playing a knocknout closing stages.
Gives every team a chance of priming/improving before the hell for leather starts. Then the knockout fetishists can have their pleasure.
Also means a team just up from Inter gets 3 Senior Championship games.
Club Leagues are grand for a bit of exercise but with County lads not involved and player availability issues they don't count for a lot in the greater scheme of things.

The obsession of playing as few games as possible always amazes/amuses me, usually we'll summed up in the phrase "running off" a competition.
If I was running a soccer club I'd be delighted of course.
But I'm not complaining about the other 31 counties.  Each to their own. If they want to water down the "on the day" format of championship football then so be it. Just not something I would want for our county championship. The Tyrone championship is one of the most exciting (Not best before MR2 gets involved!!) about imo because of the chance of upsets. The championship is do or die.
Our Championships become do or die, on the day, knock out and all that.
But YOU HAVE TO QUALIFY  for that stage.
A Championship is to find the best team and our systems facilitate that unlike the lottery stuff in Tyrone.
Is that not the point of a championship? The underdogs can have their day and don't need to qualify through a mini league that favours the top teams? You qualify for your level of championship based on what division you play in. Romance is dead in Roscommon. Long live the knock out.

Knock out does give the underdog a better chance and to be fair there is a straight knock out system in Roscommon after the group stage and from it last year you had Strokestown winning the county title who I don't think had played in a final for 20 years and their opponents Boyle reached their first Roscommon final in 95 years.
Yeah each yo their own. I just dont see the point in adding the round Robin stage. Makes it harder for the lesser lights to progress. In one off games anything can and does happen. I personally just don't see the need to water it down for part of it. That said, whatever suits each county I suppose.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 09:27:06 PM
Strokestown in Relegation playoffs losing to Tulsk by a point tonight.
Not much romance about them now!!
Tulsk who are favourites for relegation just about every tear hang on again.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: general_lee on September 01, 2023, 10:08:39 PM
Dunno about other counties but Armagh are playing the last round of round robin matches this weekend to eliminate a grand total of ONE club from each of the 4 groups of 4. Tonight, Crossmaglen cruised to a 20pt facile victory against already eliminated Mullaghbawn. Not 100% sure if allowing scenarios like that is any better than straight ko.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 01, 2023, 10:18:21 PM
Suggests ye have too many clubs graded Senior
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on September 01, 2023, 10:47:11 PM
Quote from: general_lee on September 01, 2023, 10:08:39 PM
Dunno about other counties but Armagh are playing the last round of round robin matches this weekend to eliminate a grand total of ONE club from each of the 4 groups of 4. Tonight, Crossmaglen cruised to a 20pt facile victory against already eliminated Mullaghbawn. Not 100% sure if allowing scenarios like that is any better than straight ko.

Based on finger in the air thoughts, mostly assumed from watching the Down SFC for 30 years.

I'd say 25% of clubs (and players) (call them group 1) in our SFC know they're a little below the level, and would be delighted with straight knock out as it gives them a hell and leather chance of landing a major scalp without dragging out their season when it inevitably doesn't happen (at least not twice).

I'd say 25% (group 2)  are deluded and don't realise they couldn't win their championship under any format. So they always want another chance or two.

I'd say 25% know they're a little short of winning a championship this season and the camp is split between those who want more games to help prepare for next season, and the more pragmatic thinkers who realise their best chance is pure knockout football, and an ideal draw when the biggest teams wipe each other out early.

The last 25% are proper contenders. Of course they want another chance or two. It plays in their favour that should they run into another contender early, then they stomach a defeat, rebuild and catch them in the long grass. Plus teams from group 1 and 2 are less likely to go at them hell for leather in earlier rounds. That's just human nature.

—-

I'd love a return to KO football. But until the clubs in group 2 realise they're getting eaten at Christmas whether they're a turkey or a goose, it ain't going to happen.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: general_lee on September 02, 2023, 12:14:08 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on September 01, 2023, 10:47:11 PM
I'd love a return to KO football. But until the clubs in group 2 realise they're getting eaten at Christmas whether they're a turkey or a goose, it ain't going to happen.
The same, already-eliminated Mullaghbawn team stuffed by 20 pts yesterday evening also managed to dethrone the reigning champions last season under straight knockout. Go figure!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: LeoMc on September 03, 2023, 10:03:45 AM
In Tyrone, league position determines the championship a team will play in the following year. The league is one big round robin. The only thing missing is seeding of the knock out draw.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 04, 2023, 02:54:37 PM
Prenty wants provincial winners to go straight to qf. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
After 6 weeks off they would be more likely to  get hammered by the seasoned teams coming off the 3 game round robin with say a 2 week break .
The provincial satraps  are losing their power.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/09/01/top-gaa-official-calls-for-automatic-access-to-all-ireland-quarter-finals-for-provincial-winners/
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 04, 2023, 04:15:24 PM
Might be worth a thought (only 1 mind you) if there were 4 good competitive Provincial competitions rather than 2 and 2 training spins for Dublin and Kerry.
Otherwise Foxtrot Oscar JP !
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on September 04, 2023, 08:07:14 PM
That is basically the same format as old backdoor only replacing  it with a group stage   we need to forget provincials why should we be rewarding teams in unbalanced provinces does this guy not realize  his proposal is the basically the old backdoor system. also with the state of the provincials currently your practically giving kerry and dublin a bye to the quarters about 80 or more  percent of the time.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on September 05, 2023, 07:45:10 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on September 04, 2023, 08:07:14 PM
That is basically the same format as old backdoor only replacing  it with a group stage   we need to forget provincials why should we be rewarding teams in unbalanced provinces does this guy not realize  his proposal is the basically the old backdoor system. also with the state of the provincials currently your practically giving kerry and dublin a bye to the quarters about 80 or more  percent of the time.

This guy realises the provincial championships have lost their value to both players and supporters and attendances have probably been impacted. Lower attendances reduces their revenue stream for coaches and staff with that county, it's nothing to do with the betterment of the sport.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 05, 2023, 08:33:41 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 05, 2023, 07:45:10 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on September 04, 2023, 08:07:14 PM
That is basically the same format as old backdoor only replacing  it with a group stage   we need to forget provincials why should we be rewarding teams in unbalanced provinces does this guy not realize  his proposal is the basically the old backdoor system. also with the state of the provincials currently your practically giving kerry and dublin a bye to the quarters about 80 or more  percent of the time.

This guy realises the provincial championships have lost their value to both players and supporters and attendances have probably been impacted. Lower attendances reduces their revenue stream for coaches and staff with that county, it's nothing to do with the betterment of the sport.
Power and influence
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 05, 2023, 10:04:19 AM
I think that the 3 matches in the round robin brought certain teams like Roscommon,  and Cork on, even if they didn't make it to the endgame. Over the medium term this should help competition, especially if Meath can also step up. 

The end of Roscommon's championship had a lot more positivity than previous years , I think. It seems that teams that struggled with glass ceilings have a better idea of what to aim for.  And new progressive managers like Corey , Burke and Meenagh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rIq_p8Btzg&t=6180s
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 05, 2023, 05:16:19 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0905/1403501-gaa-to-decide-on-august-all-ireland-football-final/
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on September 05, 2023, 05:19:54 PM
ireland is too small to reward teams based on geography  you could say clubs are different as they dont have finances to be  driving up and down country regularly. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 05, 2023, 06:21:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 05, 2023, 10:04:19 AM
I think that the 3 matches in the round robin brought certain teams like Roscommon,  and Cork on, even if they didn't make it to the endgame. Over the medium term this should help competition, especially if Meath can also step up. 

The end of Roscommon's championship had a lot more positivity than previous years , I think. It seems that teams that struggled with glass ceilings have a better idea of what to aim for.  And new progressive managers like Corey , Burke and Meenagh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rIq_p8Btzg&t=6180s

Any such positivity came from a 3rd place Div 1 finish when strongly tipped for relegation, beating Mayo in MacHale Park and drawing with Dublin in Croke Park in the championship.  The exit was pretty much the same as last year, missing out on a quarter final place when losing by 1 point to a team they were expected to beat so that ending wouldn't have brought any positivity.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 05, 2023, 06:46:51 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on September 05, 2023, 06:21:10 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 05, 2023, 10:04:19 AM
I think that the 3 matches in the round robin brought certain teams like Roscommon,  and Cork on, even if they didn't make it to the endgame. Over the medium term this should help competition, especially if Meath can also step up. 

The end of Roscommon's championship had a lot more positivity than previous years , I think. It seems that teams that struggled with glass ceilings have a better idea of what to aim for.  And new progressive managers like Corey , Burke and Meenagh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rIq_p8Btzg&t=6180s

Any such positivity came from a 3rd place Div 1 finish when strongly tipped for relegation, beating Mayo in MacHale Park and drawing with Dublin in Croke Park in the championship.  The exit was pretty much the same as last year, missing out on a quarter final place when losing by 1 point to a team they were expected to beat so that ending wouldn't have brought any positivity.
I had the feeling that they knew they didn't perform on the last day and that they were able to say why. Roscommon used to be strongly correlated with Cavan but they seem to be in a stronger position now.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 05, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
Positivity ended after the Croke Park game as we had a pretty poor June.
Next year do we say feck the League, try our damndest to win Connacht and then let the AI take care of itself?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: APM on September 05, 2023, 08:36:08 PM
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/niall-morgan-292262?fbclid=IwAR044NrwpUSJLyveR3ZSrBkH0U0UFxH2Nh-yA9_vjLI2dBHbDzYFyBIjVJg

One of the benefits of the slit season apparently.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 05, 2023, 08:42:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 05, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
Positivity ended after the Croke Park game as we had a pretty poor June.
Next year do we say feck the League, try our damndest to win Connacht and then let the AI take care of itself?
They lost to Kildare by a magnificent sideline point in the last minute and seemed to run out of gas against Cork. They also lost by a point.
If there had been a 2 week break between the Round robin and the preliminary qf it may have been different.
I think they should focus on the league and the championship and forget about Connacht.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 05, 2023, 11:25:04 PM
Hmmmmm.....We've won 1 NFL, 2 Senior AIs, 24 or 25 Connachts .
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 06, 2023, 12:37:03 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 05, 2023, 08:42:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 05, 2023, 07:38:21 PM
Positivity ended after the Croke Park game as we had a pretty poor June.
Next year do we say feck the League, try our damndest to win Connacht and then let the AI take care of itself?
They lost to Kildare by a magnificent sideline point in the last minute and seemed to run out of gas against Cork. They also lost by a point.
If there had been a 2 week break between the Round robin and the preliminary qf it may have been different.
I think they should focus on the league and the championship and forget about Connacht.
It was mark from the side line that won it for Kilbride could have been thrown up as Kevin Feely took longer to kick it than is meant to be allowed. 

QuoteOnce the player indicates he is taking the 'Mark', the Referee shall allow up to five seconds for the player to take the kick. If the player delays longer than five seconds, the Referee shall cancel the 'Mark' and throw in the ball between a player from each side.


I don't think running out of gas was the issue against Cork, after all Roscommon drew level from 5 points down before losing by a point and the winning Cork score came from a debatable technical foul against Conor Daly.

Three of the provincial winners reached the last 4 this year and it may well have been 4 from 4 had Comer played against Armagh in the round 3 group match.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 06, 2023, 06:18:44 AM
In a one point match the margins are small. Burke is right to focus on the last 5 minutes and managing the end of the game. If Ros could have flipped Kildare and Cork the experience would have been different.


Galway also lost by a point v Armagh. Comer was injured and there was no time in the tight schedule for a recovery. And there was no replacement.

Injuries will banjax  other teams next year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 10:32:14 AM
Quote from: APM on September 05, 2023, 08:36:08 PM
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/niall-morgan-292262?fbclid=IwAR044NrwpUSJLyveR3ZSrBkH0U0UFxH2Nh-yA9_vjLI2dBHbDzYFyBIjVJg

One of the benefits of the slit season apparently.
Helped by Tyrone's blitz knock out half the players get one game championship.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: square_ball on September 06, 2023, 10:52:49 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 10:32:14 AM
Quote from: APM on September 05, 2023, 08:36:08 PM
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/niall-morgan-292262?fbclid=IwAR044NrwpUSJLyveR3ZSrBkH0U0UFxH2Nh-yA9_vjLI2dBHbDzYFyBIjVJg

One of the benefits of the slit season apparently.
Helped by Tyrone's blitz knock out half the players get one game championship.

Not really. He's played 9 games since Tyrone have been knocked out. His season may or may not be over on 23rd September depending on the progress of his club.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: trueblue1234 on September 06, 2023, 11:37:17 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 10:32:14 AM
Quote from: APM on September 05, 2023, 08:36:08 PM
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/niall-morgan-292262?fbclid=IwAR044NrwpUSJLyveR3ZSrBkH0U0UFxH2Nh-yA9_vjLI2dBHbDzYFyBIjVJg

One of the benefits of the slit season apparently.
Helped by Tyrone's blitz knock out half the players get one game championship.
Is this an issue? Great to see players being able to play other sports? It's not like it has impacted his Gaelic participation. Am I missing something here or why wouldn't this be viewed positively?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: general_lee on September 06, 2023, 01:20:55 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 10:32:14 AM
Quote from: APM on September 05, 2023, 08:36:08 PM
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/niall-morgan-292262?fbclid=IwAR044NrwpUSJLyveR3ZSrBkH0U0UFxH2Nh-yA9_vjLI2dBHbDzYFyBIjVJg

One of the benefits of the slit season apparently.
Helped by Tyrone's blitz knock out half the players get one game championship.
How many of the clubs in Tyrone senior football genuinely believe they can make a semi final or final? I'd say most of them.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 02:01:15 PM
Whatever about Tyrone's or anyone else's system most ordinary*  Club players will be finished by mid September.

* as in players who don't also play 3rd level, schools or County panellists.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: square_ball on September 06, 2023, 02:33:03 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 02:01:15 PM
Whatever about Tyrone's or anyone else's system most ordinary*  Club players will be finished by mid September.

* as in players who don't also play 3rd level, schools or County panellists.

Finished up at the end of September having been on the go with training since January/February time. They can now refresh and reset over the next few months and go again next season. That's on the proviso that they won't be involved in league title/promotion/relegation play offs after the championship concludes.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2023, 02:50:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 02:01:15 PM
Whatever about Tyrone's or anyone else's system most ordinary*  Club players will be finished by mid September.

* as in players who don't also play 3rd level, schools or County panellists.

Would you prefer an all year system?

There is the Ulster league, it may only get so many teams, but played in the winter, when the wind is blowing your ball back up the pitch from where it came from!!

There are plenty of games available. Is there a winter Connaught league?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 06, 2023, 03:16:07 PM
Connaught doesn't exist.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Louther on September 06, 2023, 03:27:41 PM
Whatever about the Senior game does anyone think the underage/development squad doesn't have a defined season and seems to run and run against clubs and schools fixtures.

Seen it all year where they've had games on weekends after club games during the week, on school holidays they have training sessions during the week, same players been pulled from pillor to post. Now word that they starting back next month for 2023 season just as their own competitions are finishing and their school season starts.

Also heard that our neighbouring county Monaghan is considering staying at odd ages groups as they can't make fixtures work against county competitions I.E. u17 county will stop u16 and u18 club competitions starting. They must assume they going to go well every year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on September 06, 2023, 03:31:17 PM
Quote from: Louther on September 06, 2023, 03:27:41 PM
Whatever about the Senior game does anyone think the underage/development squad doesn't have a defined season and seems to run and run against clubs and schools fixtures.

Seen it all year where they've had games on weekends after club games during the week, on school holidays they have training sessions during the week, same players been pulled from pillor to post. Now word that they starting back next month for 2023 season just as their own competitions are finishing and their school season starts.

Also heard that our neighbouring county Monaghan is considering staying at odd ages groups as they can't make fixtures work against county competitions I.E. u17 county will stop u16 and u18 club competitions starting. They must assume they going to go well every year.

Monaghan's is such a typical GAA response to rules ie focus your efforts on getting around the rules, wherever possible.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 03:31:53 PM
No Connacht Club League.
Used be a Leo Kenny Cup Club thingy , used to be Spring if I recall correctly.
Lads with Colleges, school teams and on County panels usually play or train almost all year Round .
A Ros Club only man not going past Qtr Finals would play  12-15 games between 1st March and mid September, 28 weekends.
How many fkn training sessions though?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 06, 2023, 04:02:53 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 03:31:53 PM
No Connacht Club League.
Used be a Leo Kenny Cup Club thingy , used to be Spring if I recall correctly.
Lads with Colleges, school teams and on County panels usually play or train almost all year Round .
A Ros Club only man not going past Qtr Finals would play  12-15 games between 1st March and mid September, 28 weekends.
How many fkn training sessions though?
How many matches for a county player who is a club stalwart ?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 06, 2023, 04:22:48 PM
I gave you a figure for Enda recently.
13 County, 4 Club to Qtr Final stage.... God knows how many challenge I games at both. A lesser player not making the County 26 regularly would have Club League games
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2023, 05:16:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 06, 2023, 03:16:07 PM
Connaught doesn't exist.

A bit like Northern Ireland
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 06, 2023, 05:57:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 06, 2023, 05:16:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 06, 2023, 03:16:07 PM
Connaught doesn't exist.

A bit like Northern Ireland
Agreed
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 09:23:33 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/09/07/ciaran-murphy-split-seasons-shorcomings-leave-gaa-space-to-tend-to-local-grassroots/
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 07, 2023, 01:59:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 09:23:33 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/09/07/ciaran-murphy-split-seasons-shorcomings-leave-gaa-space-to-tend-to-local-grassroots/

If you are only into intercounty games then your not really a GAA man, the amount of games throughout the year to watch or listen to is crazy, as a ref I've no split season, once club championships are dusted down, I'll be doing the Uni games, then the challenge games will be out followed by the intercounty 'in house games'  ;)

Then you are into the national league games, winter club games then club fixtures and back to intercounty championship... It never stops if you keep looking
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 02:45:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 07, 2023, 01:59:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 09:23:33 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/09/07/ciaran-murphy-split-seasons-shorcomings-leave-gaa-space-to-tend-to-local-grassroots/

If you are only into intercounty games then your not really a GAA man, the amount of games throughout the year to watch or listen to is crazy, as a ref I've no split season, once club championships are dusted down, I'll be doing the Uni games, then the challenge games will be out followed by the intercounty 'in house games'  ;)

Then you are into the national league games, winter club games then club fixtures and back to intercounty championship... It never stops if you keep looking
Which authority decides whether or not someone is a GAA person? Are people  who can't speak Irish not Irish ?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 07, 2023, 03:31:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 02:45:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on September 07, 2023, 01:59:33 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 07, 2023, 09:23:33 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/09/07/ciaran-murphy-split-seasons-shorcomings-leave-gaa-space-to-tend-to-local-grassroots/

If you are only into intercounty games then your not really a GAA man, the amount of games throughout the year to watch or listen to is crazy, as a ref I've no split season, once club championships are dusted down, I'll be doing the Uni games, then the challenge games will be out followed by the intercounty 'in house games'  ;)

Then you are into the national league games, winter club games then club fixtures and back to intercounty championship... It never stops if you keep looking
Which authority decides whether or not someone is a GAA person? Are people  who can't speak Irish not Irish ?

Lets deal with the point, there are so many sides to GAA, intercounty games account for 1% involvement of players, it's a very small part of the GAA, and if you are only concerned with watching the 1% then I feel you are not really into the GAA and its core values.

I know English people that struggle with speaking it, that doesn't make them less English
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 04:11:15 PM
If there are 32 counties with clubs and 1 intercounty in
in each code it's more like 4% of matches with the league included but it's all the money. And the media coverage. Having been to many matches for club and county I doubt as many people are as interested in club as county.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on September 07, 2023, 08:54:45 PM
could a gaa club champions league work if promoted.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 08:57:09 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on September 07, 2023, 08:54:45 PM
could a gaa club champions league work if promoted.
There is no time in the calendar unless round robins are outlawed
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on September 11, 2023, 03:20:14 PM
No change for 2024 when a few tweaks was needed IMO.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0911/1404625-all-ireland-football-final-to-retain-july-date-for-2024/?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on September 18, 2023, 05:36:20 PM
Club championships dont really get going untill they get to knockout stages in most counties. Also  could the gaa not have all county finals on  the one weekend or split over two weekends a promote it as championship weekend.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on September 18, 2023, 05:38:59 PM
Do any counties have their senior intermediate and junior finals as a triple header.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: onefineday on September 30, 2023, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on September 07, 2023, 08:54:45 PMcould a gaa club champions league work if promoted.

No, aside from the calendar issues, interest in club gaa is confined to localities.
There's ample evidence to back that up, for example county championship attendances are much,much higher than provincial attendances. The exception being the all Ireland club final, but that was more of an occasion and I'm not clear what attendances are now that the Paddy's Day railway cup element has been removed.
The biggest market in the country, with massive superclubs with thousands of members has little to no interest in club gaa. A typical Dublin senior club championship game has attendances in the hundreds.
I'd be interested to know what rte viewing figures for club gaa are.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on September 30, 2023, 03:50:23 PM
Quote from: onefineday on September 30, 2023, 07:23:54 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on September 07, 2023, 08:54:45 PMcould a gaa club champions league work if promoted.

No, aside from the calendar issues, interest in club gaa is confined to localities.
There's ample evidence to back that up, for example county championship attendances are much,much higher than provincial attendances. The exception being the all Ireland club final, but that was more of an occasion and I'm not clear what attendances are now that the Paddy's Day railway cup element has been removed.
The biggest market in the country, with massive superclubs with thousands of members has little to no interest in club gaa. A typical Dublin senior club championship game has attendances in the hundreds.
I'd be interested to know what rte viewing figures for club gaa are.

Club and county are 2 different models. You know a lot of people at club matches but nobody outside the county recognises the names unless they get to the all Ireland endgame. Club is closer to the people and tends to rise and fall with generational talents.  Club rivalries can be visceral.

The county team draws support from a much wider base and plays all over the country. Probably more stable than a club team over the long term. The big wins are shared with the whole country.   
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on October 01, 2023, 04:49:00 PM
what are club attendances like  outside of finals


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 01, 2023, 05:33:55 PM
Have noticed a few national media journalist are pushing their opinion hard that the earlier Championship and split season has been overriding success.  I'd still be in the "Too early to say" category.  I see for next year all U20 football provincial championships will be round robin formats and the Minor All Ireland to have B comp for teams that don't reach the last 8.  So a lot more inter county games in already congested window but those age groups did need more games for their development.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on October 01, 2023, 11:35:55 PM
Those Inter County games will still be in the Inter Co window
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on October 02, 2023, 07:15:31 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 01, 2023, 05:33:55 PMHave noticed a few national media journalist are pushing their opinion hard that the earlier Championship and split season has been overriding success.  I'd still be in the "Too early to say" category.  I see for next year all U20 football provincial championships will be round robin formats and the Minor All Ireland to have B comp for teams that don't reach the last 8.  So a lot more inter county games in already congested window but those age groups did need more games for their development.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 01, 2023, 05:33:55 PMHave noticed a few national media journalist are pushing their opinion hard that the earlier Championship and split season has been overriding success.  I'd still be in the "Too early to say" category.  I see for next year all U20 football provincial championships will be round robin formats and the Minor All Ireland to have B comp for teams that don't reach the last 8.  So a lot more inter county games in already congested window but those age groups did need more games for their development.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 01, 2023, 05:33:55 PMHave noticed a few national media journalist are pushing their opinion hard that the earlier Championship and split season has been overriding success.  I'd still be in the "Too early to say" category.  I see for next year all U20 football provincial championships will be round robin formats and the Minor All Ireland to have B comp for teams that don't reach the last 8.  So a lot more inter county games in already congested window but those age groups did need more games for their development.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"The championship needs to be a bit longer, it's compressed a little bit too much"

"I think the split-season has been quite successful but I certainly wouldn't jump into it for the next 10 years without giving it really good thought about all the aspects," he says. "Particularly how you're going to grow the game and keep it at the forefront for young people.



https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"Every player now, you can never relax fully. You need to be ticking over in the down season. I think that maintenance work is going to ramp up even more in the next couple of years because of the split-season."


"I would like to see some definite down-time for all players," says Cheddar. "Even those last couple of weeks of the year. Everyone needs a break, even mentally.

"Take TJ Reid for example, one of the best hurlers of any generation, over the last few seasons he is playing well into the year with inter-county and then into the following year with his club Ballyhale.

"You probably have to have a bit of flexibility in year one but I would expect the GAA authorities to tighten up with that.
"I do think some counties do have to slim down to 12-team or 16-team championships to have them run off properly in a calendar season. I can understand the reasons why some counties have a Senior B championship but clear out all that rubbish, make it Senior, Intermediate and then Junior 1, Junior 2 etc.

"I think if all counties had that it would be much easier then to schedule games to make sure that your All-Ireland club championship is going to be held on the second Sunday in December."

"The championship needs to be a bit longer, it's compressed a little bit too much"



"I think the split-season has been quite successful but I certainly wouldn't jump into it for the next 10 years without giving it really good thought about all the aspects," he says. "Particularly how you're going to grow the game and keep it at the forefront for young people.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on October 02, 2023, 08:46:19 AM
Quote from: seafoid on October 02, 2023, 07:15:31 AM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 01, 2023, 05:33:55 PMHave noticed a few national media journalist are pushing their opinion hard that the earlier Championship and split season has been overriding success.  I'd still be in the "Too early to say" category.  I see for next year all U20 football provincial championships will be round robin formats and the Minor All Ireland to have B comp for teams that don't reach the last 8.  So a lot more inter county games in already congested window but those age groups did need more games for their development.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 01, 2023, 05:33:55 PMHave noticed a few national media journalist are pushing their opinion hard that the earlier Championship and split season has been overriding success.  I'd still be in the "Too early to say" category.  I see for next year all U20 football provincial championships will be round robin formats and the Minor All Ireland to have B comp for teams that don't reach the last 8.  So a lot more inter county games in already congested window but those age groups did need more games for their development.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on October 01, 2023, 05:33:55 PMHave noticed a few national media journalist are pushing their opinion hard that the earlier Championship and split season has been overriding success.  I'd still be in the "Too early to say" category.  I see for next year all U20 football provincial championships will be round robin formats and the Minor All Ireland to have B comp for teams that don't reach the last 8.  So a lot more inter county games in already congested window but those age groups did need more games for their development.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"The championship needs to be a bit longer, it's compressed a little bit too much"

"I think the split-season has been quite successful but I certainly wouldn't jump into it for the next 10 years without giving it really good thought about all the aspects," he says. "Particularly how you're going to grow the game and keep it at the forefront for young people.



https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"Every player now, you can never relax fully. You need to be ticking over in the down season. I think that maintenance work is going to ramp up even more in the next couple of years because of the split-season."


"I would like to see some definite down-time for all players," says Cheddar. "Even those last couple of weeks of the year. Everyone needs a break, even mentally.

"Take TJ Reid for example, one of the best hurlers of any generation, over the last few seasons he is playing well into the year with inter-county and then into the following year with his club Ballyhale.

"You probably have to have a bit of flexibility in year one but I would expect the GAA authorities to tighten up with that.
"I do think some counties do have to slim down to 12-team or 16-team championships to have them run off properly in a calendar season. I can understand the reasons why some counties have a Senior B championship but clear out all that rubbish, make it Senior, Intermediate and then Junior 1, Junior 2 etc.

"I think if all counties had that it would be much easier then to schedule games to make sure that your All-Ireland club championship is going to be held on the second Sunday in December."

"The championship needs to be a bit longer, it's compressed a little bit too much"



"I think the split-season has been quite successful but I certainly wouldn't jump into it for the next 10 years without giving it really good thought about all the aspects," he says. "Particularly how you're going to grow the game and keep it at the forefront for young people.


Right so, we change things to accommodate a handful of hurlers or footballers who happen to be on a successful club team in a successful county, yet the other 99.9% of club players get meaningful competition through the better months of late July and August with a bit of sun of their backs?
 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on October 02, 2023, 09:03:38 AM
Upon reading about poor old TJ, my mind went wandering up to Slaughtneil, where you'll find the likes of Brendan Rogers filling up any space created by the GAA with as many games as possible.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 02, 2023, 04:47:38 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2023, 11:35:55 PMThose Inter County games will still be in the Inter Co window

Yes in already congested window. Be interesting to see how much coverage U20 round Robin system will get, will for example the Connacht GAA stream games like they do with the U17 championship.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on October 02, 2023, 07:17:23 PM
Wonder will they have the same sequence of  fixtures in both and run them as double headers at weekends?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on October 03, 2023, 02:59:37 AM
will ulster u20 go to a round robin i think only connaught and munster should be round robins really witn 2v3 in semi final.I think that should be the format for senior connaught and munster aswell
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Cunny Funt on October 03, 2023, 02:29:55 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 03, 2023, 02:59:37 AMwill ulster u20 go to a round robin i think only connaught and munster should be round robins really witn 2v3 in semi final.I think that should be the format for senior connaught and munster aswell

I think it's up to each province what they do. Leinster already a group format and Connacht was calling for it.

With a group format in the last 16 I don't think it will be needed for senior.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on October 04, 2023, 01:30:07 PM
https://www.gaa.ie/news/618-senior-club-championship-matches-played-in-september/
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on October 04, 2023, 05:38:32 PM
How many counties still have a Senior B championship.? Players need downtime in December and January

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/



"I do think some counties do have to slim down to 12-team or 16-team championships to have them run off properly in a calendar season. I can understand the reasons why some counties have a Senior B championship but clear out all that rubbish, make it Senior, Intermediate and then Junior 1, Junior 2 etc.

"I think if all counties had that it would be much easier then to schedule games to make sure that your All-Ireland club championship is going to be held on the second Sunday in December."
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on October 04, 2023, 06:49:07 PM
It's already limited to 16 teams.
Senior B is just a name. It's the second tier , whether you call it senior B or intermediate.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on October 05, 2023, 02:44:59 AM
ohh is that why dublin is 16 teams a few years ago it was 32 team knockout i think with first round losers going into a consulation senior b championship
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on October 05, 2023, 02:46:45 AM
i think i seen tyrone might have 24 teams at one point my be wrong on that tho.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: shark on October 05, 2023, 10:46:43 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 05, 2023, 02:44:59 AMohh is that why dublin is 16 teams a few years ago it was 32 team knockout i think with first round losers going into a consulation senior b championship

Yes, they were forced to change due to directive from HQ.
They could easily rename the second tier Intermediate, and send the winners in to the Leinster Intermediate (would have been Vincents last year). But there doesn't seem to be any appetite to do that.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on October 05, 2023, 10:55:14 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 05, 2023, 02:46:45 AMi think i seen tyrone might have 24 teams at one point my be wrong on that tho.

I read somewhere Tipp had 42 SH Clubs around the turn of the Century.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: LeoMc on October 05, 2023, 12:09:25 PM
Quote from: shark on October 05, 2023, 10:46:43 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on October 05, 2023, 02:44:59 AMohh is that why dublin is 16 teams a few years ago it was 32 team knockout i think with first round losers going into a consulation senior b championship

Yes, they were forced to change due to directive from HQ.
They could easily rename the second tier Intermediate, and send the winners in to the Leinster Intermediate (would have been Vincents last year). But there doesn't seem to be any appetite to do that.

It is an anomaly that does not take account of a County's playing population.
At least Dublin have the decency not to send a big club like St Vincent's, nominally their 16th best club, into the Intermediate club all Ireland. Whereas Kerry will sent their 9th best team in to it as 8/16 Senior championship slots are taken by Divisional sides.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Brendan on November 14, 2023, 08:18:54 PM
6 concerts for Croker next year, another example of the success of the split season  ;D
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Obvious on November 14, 2023, 08:33:25 PM
Quote from: Brendan on November 14, 2023, 08:18:54 PM6 concerts for Croker next year, another example of the success of the split season  ;D

Four Cold play, one Bruce Springsteen concerts confirmed and the 6th one rumoured to be AC/DC. Certainly wouldn't be able to have that amount of concerts in Croke Park if the All Ireland series was still scheduled in August/September
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on November 18, 2023, 12:22:16 AM
was there suppose to be plans to finish the all Ireland club championship by Christmas so will club season have to start a few weeks earlier.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on November 18, 2023, 09:59:39 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on November 18, 2023, 12:22:16 AMwas there suppose to be plans to finish the all Ireland club championship by Christmas so will club season have to start a few weeks earlier.

That is still the goal AFAIK
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on November 18, 2023, 11:51:54 AM
12 Clubs out of 2,500 having to play in January is no big deal.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on November 21, 2023, 02:19:41 AM
So will the plans be to play the all Ireland club finals on the sunday before xmas every year except if that sunday is xmas eve as i dont think players and fans would want to be going to croke park on an xmas eve.I Think maybe they could  play the finals on st stephens day kind of how they tried to make st patricks day a thing but i dont know  if players want to play on stephens day as they  have to easy on xmas day stuff.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: smort on November 21, 2023, 06:49:37 AM
If you've got an allireland final on St Stephens day then I don't think you would mind taking it easy on Christmas day
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on November 21, 2023, 08:48:06 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on November 18, 2023, 11:51:54 AM12 Clubs out of 2,500 having to play in January is no big deal.
The overlap is still a problem if intercounty players are involved. Club takes too long to run off.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on November 25, 2023, 11:24:18 AM
No matches should be played in December.
Starting matches at 1.30 because there is no light at 4 is a symptom of the problem.
Club championships have to be standardised.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on November 25, 2023, 03:20:00 PM
Are most matches at this time of year not at venues with lights or can they not afford to put them on
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on January 12, 2024, 09:05:07 AM
I see the Provincial Councils (2 of them anyway) want Provincial Champions to go straight to Quarter Finals.
Why don't they just let Kerry and Dublin through to the AI Final?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on January 12, 2024, 04:15:39 PM
And what happens to teams that did not win provincial do they play in group matches  that just the same as the old system only you are having a group stage backdoor instead of knockout .


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Captain Scarlet on January 12, 2024, 04:29:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 25, 2023, 11:24:18 AMNo matches should be played in December.
Starting matches at 1.30 because there is no light at 4 is a symptom of the problem.
Club championships have to be standardised.

This is a fair call. There is no reason why a Master calendar can't at least be used as a guide across clubs too. You hear about some counties having needless gaps.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on January 14, 2024, 01:55:43 PM
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on January 12, 2024, 04:29:02 PM
Quote from: seafoid on November 25, 2023, 11:24:18 AMNo matches should be played in December.
Starting matches at 1.30 because there is no light at 4 is a symptom of the problem.
Club championships have to be standardised.

This is a fair call. There is no reason why a Master calendar can't at least be used as a guide across clubs too. You hear about some counties having needless gaps.
I agree. The load that falls on county players with the top clubs is too heavy. We do not want to cause the golden goose to retire early due to over exposure.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on February 19, 2024, 12:16:20 PM
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0218/1433013-orourke-calls-for-provincials-to-be-played-first/
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2024, 10:19:28 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2024, 12:16:20 PMhttps://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0218/1433013-orourke-calls-for-provincials-to-be-played-first/
p

people would then moan the ulster championship is being played in the cold and dark.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2024, 10:20:36 AM
burns wants to reduce inter county cost how does he do that
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on February 27, 2024, 01:26:06 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 27, 2024, 10:20:36 AMburns wants to reduce inter county cost how does he do that

Reduce the IC season even further.

Remove the McKenna Cup, Walsh Cup etc etc and replace with full blown Provincial championships, then onto the league as a build up to an open and tiered championship.

Ker ching.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2024, 01:32:14 PM
Quote from: Eire90 on February 27, 2024, 10:20:36 AMburns wants to reduce inter county cost how does he do that
Open draw
Knockout

Round robin means almost professionalism and the money racket.
€40m last year. It is insane for  so-called amateur sports
which end up with the same teams dominating every year.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on February 27, 2024, 01:52:09 PM
they just brought in the group stage 16 i dont think they can t**ker with that again too soon
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: marty34 on February 27, 2024, 04:38:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 19, 2024, 12:16:20 PMhttps://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0218/1433013-orourke-calls-for-provincials-to-be-played-first/

O'Rourke is always complaining about something.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on February 27, 2024, 09:11:06 PM
The new system was supposed to reduce the amount spent on preparing teams. It actually means more injuries and the need for a bigger panel. Last year €40m was spent on inter county teams. I would love to get the split of Dublin and Limerick versus everyone else 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on February 27, 2024, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2024, 09:11:06 PMThe new system was supposed to reduce the amount spent on preparing teams. It actually means more injuries and the need for a bigger panel. Last year €40m was spent on inter county teams. I would love to get the split of Dublin and Limerick versus everyone else 

Are there really more injuries?

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2024, 11:03:05 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 27, 2024, 09:25:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 27, 2024, 09:11:06 PMThe new system was supposed to reduce the amount spent on preparing teams. It actually means more injuries and the need for a bigger panel. Last year €40m was spent on inter county teams. I would love to get the split of Dublin and Limerick versus everyone else 

Are there really more injuries?




We only have 1 data set so far . It's really injuries and fatigue. Something to watch this year.   

Examples would be Galway last year who went out with a whimper because of injuries to key players.Fatigue would be Clifford. Austin Gleeson was interviewed in the Irish Times recently. He said the top players can be on the go continuously for years now and that players are leaving because of the demands. He is currently taking a year off.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2024/02/14/austin-gleeson-i-know-a-few-lads-have-gone-to-australia-they-have-a-life-out-there-theyre-loving-it-over-there/
"There are some players who could maybe be on the road four years in a row, non-stop with only a week or two here and there," he says

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on February 28, 2024, 12:06:22 PM
Yeah but...

Players have been opting out of county football for a year here and there, since forever. Gleeson's dad and grandad could have said the exact same thing.

If Clifford is fatigued he has a strange way of showing it.

As for Galway. It's a sample of one. The GAA has been at an ACL crisis point every year for 20 years.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on February 28, 2024, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on February 28, 2024, 12:06:22 PMYeah but...

Players have been opting out of county football for a year here and there, since forever. Gleeson's dad and grandad could have said the exact same thing.

If Clifford is fatigued he has a strange way of showing it.

As for Galway. It's a sample of one. The GAA has been at an ACL crisis point every year for 20 years.
There isn't enough data yet but this is how it looks so far. This year we will  have more data.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 02, 2024, 04:19:41 PM
I just heard on Radio 1 from Martin McHugh that Derry have several injuries including the goalie. Just fancy that.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 07:34:17 PM
Pat Spillane.


"I spoke to an executive from one of GAA's major sponsors during the week,"


"He complimented me on a recent column in which I complained (again) about how short the GAA inter-county season was.

"He agreed the association is shooting itself in the foot with the split season. By squeezing the season into a six-month slot, they are ignoring what makes the GAA the greatest sporting institution in this country, he suggested.

"Wearing his corporate hat, he predicted large companies will no longer be taken for fools by the GAA. They will not be rushing to part with big money to sponsor the All-Ireland series so long as they are run off so quickly.


Spillane added: "They have had three very intense games in three weeks, and it is asking a lot of amateur players.

"One of the hidden impacts of the split season is it's fuelling the rising cost of inter-county team expenses rather than reducing them, which was one of its touted benefits.

"Counties are now forced to carry much bigger squads because so many players are injured and this bumps up the costs of travelling and catering expenses."
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PM
Michael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PMMichael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined

An opinion piece by a journalist or be a good journalist. For that to happen it needs to be voted in by congress and the current system changed. Provincial championship under that system would become pre-season competitions with 2nd string teams in action and small crowds in attendance.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:41:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PMMichael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined

An opinion piece by a journalist or be a good journalist. For that to happen it needs to be voted in by congress and the current system changed. Provincial championship under that system would become pre-season competitions with 2nd string teams in action and small crowds in attendance.
There would be less matches.  Currently D1 games are meaningless.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:44:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:41:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PMMichael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined

An opinion piece by a journalist or be a good journalist. For that to happen it needs to be voted in by congress and the current system changed. Provincial championship under that system would become pre-season competitions with 2nd string teams in action and small crowds in attendance.
There would be less matches.  Currently D1 games are meaningless.


Don't think they are meaningless. First and foremost every team wants to retain their Div 1 status. Don't believe the theory that no team wants to reach the final, once in it a national title is there to be won. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:44:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:41:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PMMichael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined

An opinion piece by a journalist or be a good journalist. For that to happen it needs to be voted in by congress and the current system changed. Provincial championship under that system would become pre-season competitions with 2nd string teams in action and small crowds in attendance.
There would be less matches.  Currently D1 games are meaningless.

Don't think they are meaingless. First and foremost every team wants to retain their Div 1 status. Don't believe the theory that no team wants to reach the final, once in it a national title is there to be won. 
Everyone saw what happened to Mayo last year. The league only matters in D2 because of the Sam Maguire
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Wildweasel74 on March 12, 2024, 09:05:44 PM
What Happened Mayo would Happened anyway cause they are Mayo!
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 09:07:50 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:44:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:41:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PMMichael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined

An opinion piece by a journalist or be a good journalist. For that to happen it needs to be voted in by congress and the current system changed. Provincial championship under that system would become pre-season competitions with 2nd string teams in action and small crowds in attendance.
There would be less matches.  Currently D1 games are meaningless.

Don't think they are meaingless. First and foremost every team wants to retain their Div 1 status. Don't believe the theory that no team wants to reach the final, once in it a national title is there to be won. 
Everyone saw what happened to Mayo last year. The league only matters in D2 because of the Sam Maguire

Too much made of that, they lost to a Div 1 team a week after the league final. It was still a national title won in Croke Park for Mayo  and afterwards (two months later) they messed up in the group stage against Cork which cost them reaching the latter stages of the All Ireland series.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: JoG2 on March 12, 2024, 09:11:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:44:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:41:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PMMichael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined

An opinion piece by a journalist or be a good journalist. For that to happen it needs to be voted in by congress and the current system changed. Provincial championship under that system would become pre-season competitions with 2nd string teams in action and small crowds in attendance.
There would be less matches.  Currently D1 games are meaningless.

Don't think they are meaingless. First and foremost every team wants to retain their Div 1 status. Don't believe the theory that no team wants to reach the final, once in it a national title is there to be won. 
Everyone saw what happened to Mayo last year. The league only matters in D2 because of the Sam Maguire

Yes, they won a national title. League matters to the players, management teams, the vast majority of fans. No need to belittle it, it's teams on an equal footing going against each other week after week. You only have to look at how strong teams are these days compared to years ago and the crowds.
Take a breather
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 09:18:21 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on March 12, 2024, 09:05:44 PMWhat Happened Mayo would Happened anyway cause they are Mayo!
Derry could easily get injuries. I wouldn't be so complacent.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: lenny on March 12, 2024, 10:03:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:44:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:41:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PMMichael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined

An opinion piece by a journalist or be a good journalist. For that to happen it needs to be voted in by congress and the current system changed. Provincial championship under that system would become pre-season competitions with 2nd string teams in action and small crowds in attendance.
There would be less matches.  Currently D1 games are meaningless.

Don't think they are meaingless. First and foremost every team wants to retain their Div 1 status. Don't believe the theory that no team wants to reach the final, once in it a national title is there to be won. 
Everyone saw what happened to Mayo last year. The league only matters in D2 because of the Sam Maguire

From 2003 to 2023 10 league winners have gone on to win Sam. Almost a 50% record so it's hardly a hindrance to have won the league. You're using one example of a league winner having a poor championship.If you look back over those years the league winners are way more likely to have a really good championship than flop.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 10:13:02 PM
Quote from: lenny on March 12, 2024, 10:03:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:44:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:41:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PMMichael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined

An opinion piece by a journalist or be a good journalist. For that to happen it needs to be voted in by congress and the current system changed. Provincial championship under that system would become pre-season competitions with 2nd string teams in action and small crowds in attendance.
There would be less matches.  Currently D1 games are meaningless.

Don't think they are meaingless. First and foremost every team wants to retain their Div 1 status. Don't believe the theory that no team wants to reach the final, once in it a national title is there to be won. 
Everyone saw what happened to Mayo last year. The league only matters in D2 because of the Sam Maguire

From 2003 to 2023 10 league winners have gone on to win Sam. Almost a 50% record so it's hardly a hindrance to have won the league. You're using one example of a league winner having a poor championship.If you look back over those years the league winners are way more likely to have a really good championship than flop.
The split season is not 20 years old. The status of the league now is not what it was even 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on March 12, 2024, 10:13:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:44:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:41:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PMMichael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined

An opinion piece by a journalist or be a good journalist. For that to happen it needs to be voted in by congress and the current system changed. Provincial championship under that system would become pre-season competitions with 2nd string teams in action and small crowds in attendance.
There would be less matches.  Currently D1 games are meaningless.

Don't think they are meaingless. First and foremost every team wants to retain their Div 1 status. Don't believe the theory that no team wants to reach the final, once in it a national title is there to be won. 
Everyone saw what happened to Mayo last year. The league only matters in D2 because of the Sam Maguire
So did the league not matter all the years before the championship link was brought in?

Personally the league is important as an Armagh man we want to be in division 1 competing with the best teams. Its obviously used to geared towards the main event which is championship, but the league isnt meaningless.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 10:22:45 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on March 12, 2024, 10:13:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:53:16 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:44:49 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 08:41:46 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 12, 2024, 08:39:31 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 07:39:44 PMMichael Foley in the Sunday Times said that the current system is not the final system and that eventually it will be the provincials first with the League and championship combined

An opinion piece by a journalist or be a good journalist. For that to happen it needs to be voted in by congress and the current system changed. Provincial championship under that system would become pre-season competitions with 2nd string teams in action and small crowds in attendance.
There would be less matches.  Currently D1 games are meaningless.

Don't think they are meaingless. First and foremost every team wants to retain their Div 1 status. Don't believe the theory that no team wants to reach the final, once in it a national title is there to be won. 
Everyone saw what happened to Mayo last year. The league only matters in D2 because of the Sam Maguire
So did the league not matter all the years before the championship link was brought in?

Personally the league is important as an Armagh man we want to be in division 1 competing with the best teams. Its obviously used to geared towards the main event which is championship, but the league isnt meaningless.
The league matters for Armagh because you are in DIVISION TWO.
Say Derry win divison 1. They probably won't win Sam because the competition is a stitch up now between Dublin and Kerry who have the biggest panels. There are too many games in too short a time frame .

https://youtu.be/PU1GeyJIHe4
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on March 12, 2024, 10:38:07 PM
The league mattered for us last year and the year before that as well. It'll matter next year when we're hopefully back in division 1.

I'd say the Derry lads would love a division 1 title. Not that long ago they were in division 4
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: thewobbler on March 12, 2024, 10:39:58 PM
A stitch up for those with the biggest panels? Because of the number of games?

When building such a hypothesis, do you deliberately choose to ignore the decade of championship outcomes prior to the split season? Or have you some alt hypothesis to explain that away too?

Batshit and crazy spring to mind.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2024, 08:30:56 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 12, 2024, 10:39:58 PMA stitch up for those with the biggest panels? Because of the number of games?

When building such a hypothesis, do you deliberately choose to ignore the decade of championship outcomes prior to the split season? Or have you some alt hypothesis to explain that away too?

Batshit and crazy spring to mind.


Football has a natural bias towards Kerry and Dublin anyway given the history and because the GAA weaponised Dublin for reasons unknown. The 2 together have won almost  70 Sams. On average they win one in every 2 altough in the last ten years the ratio has been FAR higher.

More matches in a short period of time is match intensity.
There are 5 key aspects of higher match intensity

-The need for a bigger panel to deal with injuries and fatigue
-The video analysis culture that identifies key weaknesses in real time
-The objectification of gaelic football and the removal of the unexpected.
-The increase in spending on teams
- the glass ceiling for everyone else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7qEivYkgZM
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 13, 2024, 12:26:40 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2024, 08:30:56 AM
Quote from: thewobbler on March 12, 2024, 10:39:58 PMA stitch up for those with the biggest panels? Because of the number of games?

When building such a hypothesis, do you deliberately choose to ignore the decade of championship outcomes prior to the split season? Or have you some alt hypothesis to explain that away too?

Batshit and crazy spring to mind.


Football has a natural bias towards Kerry and Dublin anyway given the history and because the GAA weaponised Dublin for reasons unknown. The 2 together have won almost  70 Sams. On average they win one in every 2 although in the last ten years the ratio has been FAR higher.

More matches in a short period of time is match intensity.
There are 5 key aspects of higher match intensity

-The need for a bigger panel to deal with injuries and fatigue
-The video analysis culture that identifies key weaknesses in real time
-The objectification of gaelic football and the removal of the unexpected.
-The increase in spending on teams
- the glass ceiling for everyone else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7qEivYkgZM

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: armaghniac on March 13, 2024, 04:58:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2024, 08:30:56 AMFootball has a natural bias towards Kerry and Dublin anyway given the history and because the GAA weaponised Dublin for reasons unknown.

This weaponised for reasons unknown is hlx. Dublin has a large population and it is entirely proper that the GAA spend money there on getting people involved in every new suburb. What is profoundly wrong is that they are allowing this desirable activity affect national competition by refusing to split the county team.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on March 15, 2024, 11:42:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2024, 04:58:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2024, 08:30:56 AMFootball has a natural bias towards Kerry and Dublin anyway given the history and because the GAA weaponised Dublin for reasons unknown.

This weaponised for reasons unknown is hlx. Dublin has a large population and it is entirely proper that the GAA spend money there on getting people involved in every new suburb. What is profoundly wrong is that they are allowing this desirable activity affect national competition by refusing to split the county team.

The biggest plus for Kerry and Dublin is that they can afford to peak later in the year as their provincial championships are a bit of a run out mostly with very little jeopardy attached to them.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2024, 11:55:25 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 15, 2024, 11:42:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2024, 04:58:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2024, 08:30:56 AMFootball has a natural bias towards Kerry and Dublin anyway given the history and because the GAA weaponised Dublin for reasons unknown.

This weaponised for reasons unknown is hlx. Dublin has a large population and it is entirely proper that the GAA spend money there on getting people involved in every new suburb. What is profoundly wrong is that they are allowing this desirable activity affect national competition by refusing to split the county team.

The biggest plus for Kerry and Dublin is that they can afford to peak later in the year as their provincial championships are a bit of a run out mostly with very little jeopardy attached to them.


The split season turns the ulster championship into a disadvantage.
I think this is why the provincials have to beshunted to the start of the season and the league and championship merged. 
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on March 15, 2024, 11:58:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2024, 11:55:25 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 15, 2024, 11:42:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2024, 04:58:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2024, 08:30:56 AMFootball has a natural bias towards Kerry and Dublin anyway given the history and because the GAA weaponised Dublin for reasons unknown.

This weaponised for reasons unknown is hlx. Dublin has a large population and it is entirely proper that the GAA spend money there on getting people involved in every new suburb. What is profoundly wrong is that they are allowing this desirable activity affect national competition by refusing to split the county team.

The biggest plus for Kerry and Dublin is that they can afford to peak later in the year as their provincial championships are a bit of a run out mostly with very little jeopardy attached to them.


The split season turns the ulster championship into a disadvantage.
I think this is why the provincials have to beshunted to the start of the season and the league and championship merged. 

The split season has nothing to do with it. The Ulster and Connacht counties have always been disadvantaged due to their competitive nature.
Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin and Kerry never really needed to worry about Munster barring the odd time Cork got their house in order.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: imtommygunn on March 15, 2024, 12:01:35 PM
2 of the last 4 last year were from ulster. Neither would have been at the level to win it anyway so I think that's not bad for a disadvantaged championship.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: 5times5times on March 15, 2024, 12:09:47 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 15, 2024, 12:01:35 PM2 of the last 4 last year were from ulster. Neither would have been at the level to win it anyway so I think that's not bad for a disadvantaged championship.

That's harsh on Derry.. Dubs & Kerry will want to get to league final, as their respective cships are a joke.

Whereas Derry would have to beat Donegal, Tyrone/Monaghan/Cavan, then likely Armagh, just to win Ulster. That's potentially 3 Div1 teams.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on March 15, 2024, 12:34:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2024, 11:55:25 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 15, 2024, 11:42:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2024, 04:58:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2024, 08:30:56 AMFootball has a natural bias towards Kerry and Dublin anyway given the history and because the GAA weaponised Dublin for reasons unknown.

This weaponised for reasons unknown is hlx. Dublin has a large population and it is entirely proper that the GAA spend money there on getting people involved in every new suburb. What is profoundly wrong is that they are allowing this desirable activity affect national competition by refusing to split the county team.

The biggest plus for Kerry and Dublin is that they can afford to peak later in the year as their provincial championships are a bit of a run out mostly with very little jeopardy attached to them.


The split season turns the ulster championship into a disadvantage.
I think this is why the provincials have to beshunted to the start of the season and the league and championship merged. 

Shock horror

Seafoid desperately tries to pin blame for GAA issue on the split season

Zero correlation between these issues
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on March 15, 2024, 02:35:56 PM
Merge the connuaght and munster championships the 4 top seeds then would be the 3 provincial champions and league winners (or highest placed league team if league champions are a provincial champion)


leinster does not have a numbers problem it has a competitive problem


why has no one suggested merging the connaght and munster championships before
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: johnnycool on March 15, 2024, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 15, 2024, 12:01:35 PM2 of the last 4 last year were from ulster. Neither would have been at the level to win it anyway so I think that's not bad for a disadvantaged championship.

To win or get out of Ulster or Connacht you need to be peaking far earlier in the campaign, that's the point.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: imtommygunn on March 15, 2024, 02:56:13 PM
You're not getting out of ulster any more though. i would have said the best derry played last year was kerry.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2024, 03:38:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 15, 2024, 02:41:58 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 15, 2024, 12:01:35 PM2 of the last 4 last year were from ulster. Neither would have been at the level to win it anyway so I think that's not bad for a disadvantaged championship.

To win or get out of Ulster or Connacht you need to be peaking far earlier in the campaign, that's the point.


To get first seed in the RR you need to win your province. If you come second or third you have a higher chance of playing Dublin or Kerry in the QF
You don't want to play them in the QF and you don't want to have to play the pre quarter final match and you don't want injuries and you don't want fatigue. But other than that it is a level playing field
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 15, 2024, 05:17:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 15, 2024, 11:58:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2024, 11:55:25 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 15, 2024, 11:42:26 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 13, 2024, 04:58:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2024, 08:30:56 AMFootball has a natural bias towards Kerry and Dublin anyway given the history and because the GAA weaponised Dublin for reasons unknown.

This weaponised for reasons unknown is hlx. Dublin has a large population and it is entirely proper that the GAA spend money there on getting people involved in every new suburb. What is profoundly wrong is that they are allowing this desirable activity affect national competition by refusing to split the county team.

The biggest plus for Kerry and Dublin is that they can afford to peak later in the year as their provincial championships are a bit of a run out mostly with very little jeopardy attached to them.


The split season turns the ulster championship into a disadvantage.
I think this is why the provincials have to beshunted to the start of the season and the league and championship merged. 

The split season has nothing to do with it. The Ulster and Connacht counties have always been disadvantaged due to their competitive nature.
Leinster has become a cake walk for Dublin and Kerry never really needed to worry about Munster barring the odd time Cork got their house in order.
It does. The disadvantage starts when the round robin starts. Kerry and Dublin are fresh.
There are 3 RR, 1 pre qf 1 qf 1 semi = 5 or 6 matches in rapid succession before the final.
This burns off most of the other teams.


If you compare to pure knockout, the Ulster or Connacht champions this year would be battle hardened by semi stage (because both provinces are competitive) while Kerry and Dublin wouldn't have had a decent match.

If you compare to provincial first , a break and and then league/Sam combined, everyone would play the same number of championship games 

These are  huge differences. The current system is the worst
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 10:34:17 AM
The top 8 on oddschecker are
Dublin
Kerry
Derry
Galway
Mayo
Donegal
Throne
Armagh

That's Ulster 4, Connacht 2, Dublin and Kerry

Because the provincials are at the start of the championship, 2 of the ulster teams will not be seeded first or second.  3 Ulster teams will be playing in the preliminary quarter final and may play another division 1 team before the qf. Dublin and Kerry are unlikely to be playing in the prelim QF.

The likelihood of a Dublin/Kerry final in any year is higher under this system.
The likelihood of a good Ulster team building up momentum in the province and going all the way is lower.

Anyone who isn't from Dublin or Kerry who defends this system is down a rabbit hole
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx0 


Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on March 16, 2024, 11:24:02 AM
As pointed out by others that's nothing to do  the split season.
It's a good argument for abolishing the Provincials or the link between them and the AI.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 12:12:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2024, 11:24:02 AMAs pointed out by others that's nothing to do  the split season.
It's a good argument for abolishing the Provincials or the link between them and the AI.
It's isn't about the split season. They could run any kind of championship in the time available.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 06:58:44 AM
https://twitter.com/BrophShane/status/17720035272057160045

The GAA has got a huge problem with the hurling and football leagues as in you can't trust what you are watching. Managers pick games over others to prioritise. So much of this years league has been fake and supporters won't stay paying high admission prices for it.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on March 26, 2024, 12:02:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 12:12:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2024, 11:24:02 AMAs pointed out by others that's nothing to do  the split season.
It's a good argument for abolishing the Provincials or the link between them and the AI.
It's isn't about the split season. They could run any kind of championship in the time available.

OK, so we're agreed

This has everything to do with the structure of the championship and the relative weaknesses of the provincial championships compared to Ulster

And nothing to do with the split season
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 26, 2024, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 26, 2024, 12:02:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 12:12:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2024, 11:24:02 AMAs pointed out by others that's nothing to do  the split season.
It's a good argument for abolishing the Provincials or the link between them and the AI.
It's isn't about the split season. They could run any kind of championship in the time available.

OK, so we're agreed

This has everything to do with the structure of the championship and the relative weaknesses of the provincial championships compared to Ulster

And nothing to do with the split season
Finally, Franko. I can't believe it.
 8)
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Franko on March 26, 2024, 01:46:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 26, 2024, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 26, 2024, 12:02:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 12:12:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2024, 11:24:02 AMAs pointed out by others that's nothing to do  the split season.
It's a good argument for abolishing the Provincials or the link between them and the AI.
It's isn't about the split season. They could run any kind of championship in the time available.

OK, so we're agreed

This has everything to do with the structure of the championship and the relative weaknesses of the provincial championships compared to Ulster

And nothing to do with the split season
Finally, Franko. I can't believe it.
 8)


Sorry I was confused, maybe I got the wrong end of de schtick but I thought your messaging was mixed

Tis a great day for sure  ;D
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 26, 2024, 01:53:55 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 26, 2024, 01:46:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 26, 2024, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: Franko on March 26, 2024, 12:02:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 12:12:22 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 16, 2024, 11:24:02 AMAs pointed out by others that's nothing to do  the split season.
It's a good argument for abolishing the Provincials or the link between them and the AI.
It's isn't about the split season. They could run any kind of championship in the time available.

OK, so we're agreed

This has everything to do with the structure of the championship and the relative weaknesses of the provincial championships compared to Ulster

And nothing to do with the split season
Finally, Franko. I can't believe it.
 8)


Sorry I was confused, maybe I got the wrong end of de schtick but I thought your messaging was mixed

Tis a great day for sure  ;D
It sure is. I think they will have to change the championship . It isn't good enough
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Blowitupref on March 26, 2024, 07:43:19 PM
Jim McGuinness on current scheduling.

"The whole thing is blurred. One thing to the next thing to the next thing. There is no gap.

"There is no opportunities. It is hard to develop a team as well when you are constantly playing. Listen, we basically are managing, we took in eight kids, U20s, to bring us up to 40.

"For most of this national league and preseason, we have been operating with 22 to 24, that is the reality.

"Sometimes you are down 50 per cent of availability. Most of them were issues that had to be sorted out from last year and have followed through.

"There is a huge residue in terms of the split season, people coming in injured, trying to get people up to a level. I haven't experienced this level really in my life.

"We are trying to find a way to get as many back on the pitch as possible. We haven't had everyone on the pitch at the one time yet, I am looking forward to that.

"The more it goes on I'm not even sure it will happen. When I was manager of Donegal previously, you always had injuries that is why you carry a couple extra.

There is a strong element of managers and players being on tenterhooks because one slip. Time frames are so tight and you could miss everything. Literally everything.

"Even if you do get back are you going to be at the level to compete because of the intensity of the games you are going into. It is tricky, really tricky for players."



Meanwhile Kieran McGeeney reckons all pre-season competitions need to be scrapped a total waste of time. He would prefer the NFL to start in the first week of January and two have home and away matches with 14 league games instead of 7. 

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Derryman forever on March 26, 2024, 08:16:56 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 26, 2024, 07:43:19 PMJim McGuinness on current scheduling.

"The whole thing is blurred. One thing to the next thing to the next thing. There is no gap.

"There is no opportunities. It is hard to develop a team as well when you are constantly playing. Listen, we basically are managing, we took in eight kids, U20s, to bring us up to 40.

"For most of this national league and preseason, we have been operating with 22 to 24, that is the reality.

"Sometimes you are down 50 per cent of availability. Most of them were issues that had to be sorted out from last year and have followed through.

"There is a huge residue in terms of the split season, people coming in injured, trying to get people up to a level. I haven't experienced this level really in my life.

"We are trying to find a way to get as many back on the pitch as possible. We haven't had everyone on the pitch at the one time yet, I am looking forward to that.

"The more it goes on I'm not even sure it will happen. When I was manager of Donegal previously, you always had injuries that is why you carry a couple extra.

There is a strong element of managers and players being on tenterhooks because one slip. Time frames are so tight and you could miss everything. Literally everything.

"Even if you do get back are you going to be at the level to compete because of the intensity of the games you are going into. It is tricky, really tricky for players."



Meanwhile Kieran McGeeney reckons all pre-season competitions need to be scrapped a total waste of time. He would prefer the NFL to start in the first week of January and two have home and away matches with 14 league games instead of 7. 




Don't sound like remarks born in confidence.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on March 26, 2024, 08:43:10 PM
Rather be playing games games games. Teams are training from October/November anyway.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: marty34 on March 26, 2024, 09:58:59 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 26, 2024, 07:43:19 PMJim McGuinness on current scheduling.

"The whole thing is blurred. One thing to the next thing to the next thing. There is no gap.

"There is no opportunities. It is hard to develop a team as well when you are constantly playing. Listen, we basically are managing, we took in eight kids, U20s, to bring us up to 40.

"For most of this national league and preseason, we have been operating with 22 to 24, that is the reality.

"Sometimes you are down 50 per cent of availability. Most of them were issues that had to be sorted out from last year and have followed through.

"There is a huge residue in terms of the split season, people coming in injured, trying to get people up to a level. I haven't experienced this level really in my life.

"We are trying to find a way to get as many back on the pitch as possible. We haven't had everyone on the pitch at the one time yet, I am looking forward to that.

"The more it goes on I'm not even sure it will happen. When I was manager of Donegal previously, you always had injuries that is why you carry a couple extra.

There is a strong element of managers and players being on tenterhooks because one slip. Time frames are so tight and you could miss everything. Literally everything.

"Even if you do get back are you going to be at the level to compete because of the intensity of the games you are going into. It is tricky, really tricky for players."



Meanwhile Kieran McGeeney reckons all pre-season competitions need to be scrapped a total waste of time. He would prefer the NFL to start in the first week of January and two have home and away matches with 14 league games instead of 7. 



Carrying a panel of 40 but only has 22 training?

Jimmy not happy but it's only for about 2% of players.

As I said before, why do they have to train so much between matches?
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: yellowcard on March 27, 2024, 08:42:00 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 26, 2024, 09:58:59 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 26, 2024, 07:43:19 PMJim McGuinness on current scheduling.

"The whole thing is blurred. One thing to the next thing to the next thing. There is no gap.

"There is no opportunities. It is hard to develop a team as well when you are constantly playing. Listen, we basically are managing, we took in eight kids, U20s, to bring us up to 40.

"For most of this national league and preseason, we have been operating with 22 to 24, that is the reality.

"Sometimes you are down 50 per cent of availability. Most of them were issues that had to be sorted out from last year and have followed through.

"There is a huge residue in terms of the split season, people coming in injured, trying to get people up to a level. I haven't experienced this level really in my life.

"We are trying to find a way to get as many back on the pitch as possible. We haven't had everyone on the pitch at the one time yet, I am looking forward to that.

"The more it goes on I'm not even sure it will happen. When I was manager of Donegal previously, you always had injuries that is why you carry a couple extra.

There is a strong element of managers and players being on tenterhooks because one slip. Time frames are so tight and you could miss everything. Literally everything.

"Even if you do get back are you going to be at the level to compete because of the intensity of the games you are going into. It is tricky, really tricky for players."



Meanwhile Kieran McGeeney reckons all pre-season competitions need to be scrapped a total waste of time. He would prefer the NFL to start in the first week of January and two have home and away matches with 14 league games instead of 7. 



Carrying a panel of 40 but only has 22 training?

Jimmy not happy but it's only for about 2% of players.

As I said before, why do they have to train so much between matches?

Maybe it's just a coincidence but I wonder is there any correlation between the frequency and intensity of training sessions and the Donegal lengthy injury list. They were thought to have been training 9/10 times per week in December which is bound to put a huge strain on the bodies of amateur players. Its therefore ironic that Jimmy is now complaining that he can't train them often enough as the games come thick and fast.

The county managers have far too much power and aren't happy unless they have full control over their players 24/7. Carrying 40 of a squad knowing well that 14 of them are just being used to play in house training games, it takes a serious committment and certain type of character for players to buy into that type of regime.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Armagh18 on March 27, 2024, 09:12:13 AM
Quote from: yellowcard on March 27, 2024, 08:42:00 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 26, 2024, 09:58:59 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 26, 2024, 07:43:19 PMJim McGuinness on current scheduling.

"The whole thing is blurred. One thing to the next thing to the next thing. There is no gap.

"There is no opportunities. It is hard to develop a team as well when you are constantly playing. Listen, we basically are managing, we took in eight kids, U20s, to bring us up to 40.

"For most of this national league and preseason, we have been operating with 22 to 24, that is the reality.

"Sometimes you are down 50 per cent of availability. Most of them were issues that had to be sorted out from last year and have followed through.

"There is a huge residue in terms of the split season, people coming in injured, trying to get people up to a level. I haven't experienced this level really in my life.

"We are trying to find a way to get as many back on the pitch as possible. We haven't had everyone on the pitch at the one time yet, I am looking forward to that.

"The more it goes on I'm not even sure it will happen. When I was manager of Donegal previously, you always had injuries that is why you carry a couple extra.

There is a strong element of managers and players being on tenterhooks because one slip. Time frames are so tight and you could miss everything. Literally everything.

"Even if you do get back are you going to be at the level to compete because of the intensity of the games you are going into. It is tricky, really tricky for players."



Meanwhile Kieran McGeeney reckons all pre-season competitions need to be scrapped a total waste of time. He would prefer the NFL to start in the first week of January and two have home and away matches with 14 league games instead of 7. 



Carrying a panel of 40 but only has 22 training?

Jimmy not happy but it's only for about 2% of players.

As I said before, why do they have to train so much between matches?

Maybe it's just a coincidence but I wonder is there any correlation between the frequency and intensity of training sessions and the Donegal lengthy injury list. They were thought to have been training 9/10 times per week in December which is bound to put a huge strain on the bodies of amateur players. Its therefore ironic that Jimmy is now complaining that he can't train them often enough as the games come thick and fast.

The county managers have far too much power and aren't happy unless they have full control over their players 24/7. Carrying 40 of a squad knowing well that 14 of them are just being used to play in house training games, it takes a serious committment and certain type of character for players to buy into that type of regime. 
Think Armagh something the same but players that aren't making the 26 will be allowed to play club league games which start early April. Surely the hard yards are done by now in training and its a matter of getting a couple of light recovery/tactical sessions in ( boys not getting game time would still be doing more runs I'd imagine). We're getting fair buy in from lads and Donegal seem to be getting the same.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on March 28, 2024, 10:48:54 AM
if weather dont improve championshop games will be played in baltic conditions suppose if its good enough for club players its good enough for county and covid all ireland 1 was played in winter.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Rossfan on March 28, 2024, 02:58:31 PM
Is Prenty losing his marbles?
He wants Provincial winners to be let straight to Qtr Finals entailing sitting around for 7 weeks waiting for the AI series to end.
He also wants Div 3 winners a place in Sam, presumably at the expense of a Div 2 team who are 1,2 or even 3 League places above them.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on March 28, 2024, 03:09:46 PM
so does that mean he wants the old backdoor system back except he backdoor would be a groupstage


and what is he  on about playing provincial finals on st stephens day.

Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: Eire90 on March 28, 2024, 03:13:42 PM
provincials have more chance of being scrapped or seperated from all ireland than ever going back to giving them automatic quarter final spot.
Title: Re: Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?
Post by: seafoid on March 28, 2024, 06:12:30 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on March 28, 2024, 02:58:31 PMIs Prenty losing his marbles?
He wants Provincial winners to be let straight to Qtr Finals entailing sitting around for 7 weeks waiting for the AI series to end.
He also wants Div 3 winners a place in Sam, presumably at the expense of a Div 2 team who are 1,2 or even 3 League places above them.
Prenty and the rest of the Provincial secretaries are the power brokers in the GAA