Noah's Army

[Will it ever end]

To me I just labour back to my original point - he's a black male cycling naked up Northwood Road which is effectively a dead end - he has to struggle past the side of a house in the broad daylight to make it to the storm drain - there is no way I can believe he wasn't spotted in this area dozens of times.

[smelmoth]

PII= no disclosure of information. (Public interest immunity)

It's the reversal of that they need. I am not sure they will ever get it

You read on Twitter people saying "we deserve to know". We don't- the mother does. That poor woman.

The "movement" on Twitter has some loons in its ranks, which doesent help at times

Agreed. The family deserve to know and now the public want to but the only people that deserve to know are that poor wee boy's family. I suspect there is a good bit of incompetence going on here from a PSNI perspective too though there is definitely something not right too.

Every victim's family deserve to know. But people seem to be jumping to the conclusion that something is known by the police about the the circumstances of the death and the identity of the perpetrator
/perpetrators. That is a big assumption.

Would there be a need for a PII if there wasn't something?

Very possibly.

Have you any evidence that it's the perpetrator ID that is being withheld?

There are any number of other things that could be the subject of the PII certificate. But it's likely (given the history of PIIs) that it's something to do with keeping the identity of informants/agents and their handlers secret. Withholding documents that disclose or heavily suggest their identity would be withheld on PII grounds. The same applies to the justification for redactions. The Noah case is not different in this respect.

Put it another way try finishing the following sentence

"Those who believe that the PII relates to the identity of the perpetrator but have no evidence to back that up are not conspiracy theorists because ......"

Ok so we think the most likely reason for the PII is to 
"something to do with keeping the identity of informants/agents and their handlers secret". So what other than this informant/agent being involved somewhere in this process would be a likely scenario other than being involved in the death directly? I can't think of any but very open to listening to any you have?

At a guess the documents/details with a document relate to the feelers the cops put out to see if any informant knew anything. There is no way that would be released to the family. There is your PII right there.

To be absolutely clear PSNI use informants. Especially in areas of high crime. Several groups do not like this. My understanding is that the PSNI have very little to go on in the Noah case. If you look at where the crime occurred it is clear that there will be informants in the surrounding area. If it's true that the case flummoxed the cops it's very, very likely that they will have shaken down every street source they had. That info cannot be released.

So when I hear there is a PII cert my instinct is that there is bound to be. If you want to elevate it above that show me some evidence? Something other than a conspiracy theory

But that's the point. There is no evidence of your version either. Your version is as much a theory as any other. In fact it would be infinitely easier to redact certain documents/ or to use code names of informers on documents regarding interviews etc which they do, than to allow this whole media circus to gather pace to a stage where it is not going to disappear and has added to peoples feelings regarding cover ups. Provide me with evidence that your version is more likely and We'll talk. Leave out the condescending  conspiracy theory remarks though.

I think you have missed the point completely.

I put forward a version. An alternative version. I am not saying it is true or asking you to believe it. I merely point out that many are making claims here that that have nothing to back up.

As for redactions and code names again you miss the point. You can't just redact. You have to have a reason. One such reason being Public Interest Immunity.

[Caesar]

What is it that the police claim happened to Noah?

[trueblue1234]

I didn't miss the point. I haven't said anything about what  I think happened. I'm open minded. It was you that wanted to close down one possible scenario by labelling it conspiracy theory. When it's no more theory than your own.

[johnnycool]

What is it that the police claim happened to Noah?

He fell off his bike, knocked his head on the road which caused him to strip off and then ride his bike for another few miles before climbing in behind some houses and then way up inside a storm drain that's allegedly pretty narrow and the tide comes up it twice a day...

[Hound]

What is it that the police claim happened to Noah?

He fell off his bike, knocked his head on the road which caused him to strip off and then ride his bike for another few miles before climbing in behind some houses and then way up inside a storm drain that's allegedly pretty narrow and the tide comes up it twice a day...

Which, while highly unusual and very rare, is not implausible. Similar has happened before.

However, the PII is a clear admission that something is being covered up.

Smelmoth's rationale is a load of nonsense imo. Police all over the world use informants, the investigation is not public record so a PII (or similar) is not required to keep the names of those informants a secret.
If it turns out an informant is a suspect, then you might need a PII.

[johnnycool]

What is it that the police claim happened to Noah?

He fell off his bike, knocked his head on the road which caused him to strip off and then ride his bike for another few miles before climbing in behind some houses and then way up inside a storm drain that's allegedly pretty narrow and the tide comes up it twice a day...

Which, while highly unusual and very rare, is not implausible. Similar has happened before.

However, the PII is a clear admission that something is being covered up.

Smelmoth's rationale is a load of nonsense imo. Police all over the world use informants, the investigation is not public record so a PII (or similar) is not required to keep the names of those informants a secret.
If it turns out an informant is a suspect, then you might need a PII.

A suspect for what? foul play?

The fact that the PSNI felt the need to apply and get a PII casts major doubt on the story they're trying to peddle on this poor lads death.

I don't know if there's Loyalist paramilitaries involved or not, but there's definitely something not right about this and why go to these lengths to cover something up.

[WT4E]

To me I just labour back to my original point - he's a black male cycling naked up Northwood Road which is effectively a dead end - he has to struggle past the side of a house in the broad daylight to make it to the storm drain - there is no way I can believe he wasn't spotted in this area dozens of times.

And travelled a kilometre up a narrow storm drain!!!

[imtommygunn]

What is it that the police claim happened to Noah?

He fell off his bike, knocked his head on the road which caused him to strip off and then ride his bike for another few miles before climbing in behind some houses and then way up inside a storm drain that's allegedly pretty narrow and the tide comes up it twice a day...

Which, while highly unusual and very rare, is not implausible. Similar has happened before.

However, the PII is a clear admission that something is being covered up.

Smelmoth's rationale is a load of nonsense imo. Police all over the world use informants, the investigation is not public record so a PII (or similar) is not required to keep the names of those informants a secret.
If it turns out an informant is a suspect, then you might need a PII.

A suspect for what? foul play?

The fact that the PSNI felt the need to apply and get a PII casts major doubt on the story they're trying to peddle on this poor lads death.

I don't know if there's Loyalist paramilitaries involved or not, but there's definitely something not right about this and why go to these lengths to cover something up.

Something isn't right here at all and now a poor woman doesn't know what happened to her son. I wouldn't rule out significant amounts of incompetence either tbh.

[nrico2006]

To me I just labour back to my original point - he's a black male cycling naked up Northwood Road which is effectively a dead end - he has to struggle past the side of a house in the broad daylight to make it to the storm drain - there is no way I can believe he wasn't spotted in this area dozens of times.

And travelled a kilometre up a narrow storm drain!!!

Was he a KM up the drain?  How wide was the drain?

[seafoid]

What is it that the police claim happened to Noah?

He fell off his bike, knocked his head on the road which caused him to strip off and then ride his bike for another few miles before climbing in behind some houses and then way up inside a storm drain that's allegedly pretty narrow and the tide comes up it twice a day...

Which, while highly unusual and very rare, is not implausible. Similar has happened before.

However, the PII is a clear admission that something is being covered up.

Smelmoth's rationale is a load of nonsense imo. Police all over the world use informants, the investigation is not public record so a PII (or similar) is not required to keep the names of those informants a secret.
If it turns out an informant is a suspect, then you might need a PII.

A suspect for what? foul play?

The fact that the PSNI felt the need to apply and get a PII casts major doubt on the story they're trying to peddle on this poor lads death.

I don't know if there's Loyalist paramilitaries involved or not, but there's definitely something not right about this and why go to these lengths to cover something up.

Which of his possessions are still missing ?

[Ty4Sam]

To me I just labour back to my original point - he's a black male cycling naked up Northwood Road which is effectively a dead end - he has to struggle past the side of a house in the broad daylight to make it to the storm drain - there is no way I can believe he wasn't spotted in this area dozens of times.

And travelled a kilometre up a narrow storm drain!!!

Was he a KM up the drain?  How wide was the drain?

Below is from Noah's aunt, this is on her Twitter page if anyone doubts the source. There is a lot of factual info on this case on social media through Fiona (who was mysteriously blocked on Twitter for a period of time) and her sister. I would encourage everyone to seek it out, this case stinks to high heaven. So many simple questions not answered by PSNI.

1. At this stage people are forgetting the elephant in the room being the stormdrain,the PSNI and Coroner claim Noah climbed into and crawled 950km over debris, manmade obstructions, around corners through a possible massive chamber to get to the place he was found.
2. Noah was naked, in pitch darkness. The tunnel is made of concrete and not even a metre in Diameter for most of it and slightly more than a metre in parts. His body, torso, knees, arms, elbows etc would have been badly cut due to the concrete and contents of the stormdrain.
3. Noah had no such damage on his body. No cuts other than two small lateral scrapes on each arm. Due to where he allegedly was for 6 days and the tidal water that fulled that tunnel twice a day, submerging Noahs whole body in water.  The strength of that spring tide would have
4. Pulled a body out of the tunnel but  also, the effect of being in water for 6days would have been catastrophic. The only water damage to Noahs body was his hands and feet⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️
6 days in a stormdrain with no rodent damage or insect damage⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️
5.6days in water with sewage, the bacteria in any water let alone water that contains sewage does awful things to a body, Noahs body was perfect apart from the water damage to his hands and feet and bruise to his head. Who hit him, who placed him in that terrible place⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️
6.I will go into the damn storm drain myself if need be to prove that Noah could not have made it to the point his wee body was found.I apologise for the detail and realise people may find it difficult to read but please open your eyes and see what is going on here.

[Milltown Row2]

So she's saying he was placed there, did someone drag him 1 km or was he just placed in a place that had a manhole above him?

Did he drown or die of other injuries? If there is water in the lungs does that prove he drowned or not? I'm not sure what way it works..

Did the search team look there early on or not? Those guys are all volunteers who do great work independently from the police, have they ever had input the Noah group?

What was his timeline, as in did he die that day or later in the week?

[Ty4Sam]

So she's saying he was placed there, did someone drag him 1 km or was he just placed in a place that had a manhole above him?

Did he drown or die of other injuries? If there is water in the lungs does that prove he drowned or not? I'm not sure what way it works..

Did the search team look there early on or not? Those guys are all volunteers who do great work independently from the police, have they ever had input the Noah group?

What was his timeline, as in did he die that day or later in the week?

This is the problem. So many questions that the PSNI have not answered, even the family have been left in the dark.

There is a manhole cover at Fortwilliam train station 20 meters from where the body was found.

From memory, I believe Fiona stated once that Noah died officially from drowning. She publicly asked was the water in Noah's lungs the same water that was in the storm drain, as far as I'm aware she's never been told.

Search and rescue volunteers would have been a great tool in finding Noah, unfortunately they were sent to Cavehill by the PSNI to look for him, even though he was seen naked at Northwood.

As for the timeline of his death, I'm not sure as I don't think those details were released.

Fiona did an interview with James English on YouTube that goes into greater detail, it's heartbreaking but I suppose she feels she has been backed into a corner.

[markl121]

Where is fortwilliam train station? Is it called anything else? Or is it a historic station that no longer exists? On maps here trying to piece this together in my head