Laois Senior Hurling Championship 2019

Started by The PRO, February 28, 2019, 09:53:24 AM

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clonadmad

Quote from: blueandwhite1 on November 18, 2019, 12:02:34 PM
The Harps were in KK leagues at underage for a while and didn't go so well.

Can't imagine that KK or Tipp would want a slew of Laois teams in their leagues - what's in it for them?

If we want players playing at a high level in Laois we need to look harder at permanently combining clubs at minor, Intermediate and Senior level. Easier then to focus high quality coaching at underage.

I'm not saying it's done in isolation,but if we want to compete with the best,the more often we play them across all levels and age groups.

Laois hurling is a mile behind Tipp and KK when it comes to coaching and S&C

And it's not a "slew" of laois clubs,you'd swear we had 50/60 hurling clubs,

We don't

Put 4 clubs into kk,4 into mid and 4 into the north divisions in Tipp

Kk have already welcomed the likes of Naas and Carlow clubs in for the league,no harm in asking them.

marty34

Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:07:42 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 11:36:23 AM
Thoughts on this lads

With Mullins and Carlow teams taking part in the KK leagues,is it something laois clubs should look at?

Partake in kk or Tipp leagues?

It seems to have paid off for the carlow clubs

What league do they take part in?

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/fixtures?compGroupID=61407&orderTBCLast=Y

Thanks.  Is that a junior league?

I was once told there are 4 senior hurling clubs in Carlow.

Laois Rising

A more realistic target would be a midlands league involving the top clubs in Laois, Offaly and Westmeath. If Naas of Kildare wanted to come in on board I would open invite to them as well. It would add interest to the club scene. I honestly cannot see Kilkenny or Tipperary opening their doors to adding Laois sides to their county leagues. There are too many sides in Laois as well to try fit into another counties model. 

It was interesting to note how the St. Mullin's players in on the county panel have improved significantly as players over the last 12 months. I would suggest that having serious summer championship games in Leinster against the likes of Dublin, Kilkenny and Galway has really stood to them this year as their confidence, touch and physicality seemed to have upped again since I saw them in Joe McDonagh last year. It's a pity that they won't get the opportunity to put that gained experience into use in the Leinster championship next year.

That is my fear for laois as well next year. Gain huge experience from being involved in four Leinster championship games but if they are relegated then an inevitable backward step has to be taken the following year and opportunity to progress and put any learning into place is sadly lost.

 

clonadmad

Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:07:42 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 11:36:23 AM
Thoughts on this lads

With Mullins and Carlow teams taking part in the KK leagues,is it something laois clubs should look at?

Partake in kk or Tipp leagues?

It seems to have paid off for the carlow clubs

What league do they take part in?

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/fixtures?compGroupID=61407&orderTBCLast=Y

Thanks.  Is that a junior league?

I was once told there are 4 senior hurling clubs in Carlow.

There are

marty34

Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:07:42 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 11:36:23 AM
Thoughts on this lads

With Mullins and Carlow teams taking part in the KK leagues,is it something laois clubs should look at?

Partake in kk or Tipp leagues?

It seems to have paid off for the carlow clubs

What league do they take part in?

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/fixtures?compGroupID=61407&orderTBCLast=Y

Thanks.  Is that a junior league?

I was once told there are 4 senior hurling clubs in Carlow.

There are

But do they play in the KK senior hurling league?  Seems the teams they are playing against are junior type teams.

Agree, a midlands league with Kildare, Laois, Carlow and Westmeath might work.  Time to think outside the box in terms of promoting hurling and making it stronger in the 'less favoured' counties.

burdizzo

A Leinster League used to operate (and perhaps still does?), but interest in it seemed to dwindle. Of course, not having county panellists involved takes away from it, as well.

blueandwhite1

Quote from: burdizzo on November 18, 2019, 03:43:16 PM
A Leinster League used to operate (and perhaps still does?), but interest in it seemed to dwindle. Of course, not having county panellists involved takes away from it, as well.

Leinster league is a strange affair as teams tend to opt in and out and some counties didn't have their stronger clubs. Leagues are hard enough to get games played as they are and in reality, they are just leagues. Does anyone ever truly develop from playing league matches? Rathdowney Errill plodded through the league but were a different animal in the championship. All they realistically do is help you to get fit for the summer and improve touch.

If we want to improve club hurling in Laois I think the answer is in coaching and permanently combining clubs from weaker areas. Mainly though, it is in the coaching from U8-U14. If a lad is not flying at U-14, he is probably never going to be a good senior hurler. They don't get made later by coaching or exposing them to better hurlers. Can anyone think of exceptions? I bet they are few.


clonadmad

Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 03:33:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:07:42 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 11:36:23 AM
Thoughts on this lads

With Mullins and Carlow teams taking part in the KK leagues,is it something laois clubs should look at?

Partake in kk or Tipp leagues?

It seems to have paid off for the carlow clubs

What league do they take part in?

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/fixtures?compGroupID=61407&orderTBCLast=Y

Thanks.  Is that a junior league?

I was once told there are 4 senior hurling clubs in Carlow.

There are

But do they play in the KK senior hurling league?  Seems the teams they are playing against are junior type teams.

Agree, a midlands league with Kildare, Laois, Carlow and Westmeath might work.  Time to think outside the box in terms of promoting hurling and making it stronger in the 'less favoured' counties.

Midlands league is a waste of time,there's been no buy in

Also our clubs Playing club teams who are from counties below us in the hurling firmament?

We need to be thinking about making the jump to top 6/8 counties at this stage

Abbeyleix playing Thurles or The Harps against Comer in games that matter would improve all our club hurlers over time.

We are fighting against a culture of defeat and apathy in laois as much as anything else

Zooming around

Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 03:33:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:07:42 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 11:36:23 AM
Thoughts on this lads

With Mullins and Carlow teams taking part in the KK leagues,is it something laois clubs should look at?

Partake in kk or Tipp leagues?

It seems to have paid off for the carlow clubs

What league do they take part in?

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/fixtures?compGroupID=61407&orderTBCLast=Y

Thanks.  Is that a junior league?

I was once told there are 4 senior hurling clubs in Carlow.

There are

But do they play in the KK senior hurling league?  Seems the teams they are playing against are junior type teams.

Agree, a midlands league with Kildare, Laois, Carlow and Westmeath might work.  Time to think outside the box in terms of promoting hurling and making it stronger in the 'less favoured' counties.

Midlands league is a waste of time,there's been no buy in

Also our clubs Playing club teams who are from counties below us in the hurling firmament?

We need to be thinking about making the jump to top 6/8 counties at this stage

Abbeyleix playing Thurles or The Harps against Comer in games that matter would improve all our club hurlers over time.

We are fighting against a culture of defeat and apathy in laois as much as anything else

Our U12 hurlers hurling in Kilkenny was a good idea. Certainly our club reaped the benefits from it. It is physically a much different game. The tackling is harder. It's a pity that it wasn't continued.

SpeculativeEffort

Quote from: blueandwhite1 on November 18, 2019, 04:02:01 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 18, 2019, 03:43:16 PM
A Leinster League used to operate (and perhaps still does?), but interest in it seemed to dwindle. Of course, not having county panellists involved takes away from it, as well.

Leinster league is a strange affair as teams tend to opt in and out and some counties didn't have their stronger clubs. Leagues are hard enough to get games played as they are and in reality, they are just leagues. Does anyone ever truly develop from playing league matches? Rathdowney Errill plodded through the league but were a different animal in the championship. All they realistically do is help you to get fit for the summer and improve touch.

If we want to improve club hurling in Laois I think the answer is in coaching and permanently combining clubs from weaker areas. Mainly though, it is in the coaching from U8-U14. If a lad is not flying at U-14, he is probably never going to be a good senior hurler. They don't get made later by coaching or exposing them to better hurlers. Can anyone think of exceptions? I bet they are few.

This sums up the attitude. Too much picking and choosing about which games are important. If 2 lads went out in the yard and competed for a ball for an hour every evening are you saying that they wouldnt improve? People need to develop an attitude of team and self improvement.

clonadmad

#205
Quote from: blueandwhite1 on November 18, 2019, 04:02:01 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 18, 2019, 03:43:16 PM
A Leinster League used to operate (and perhaps still does?), but interest in it seemed to dwindle. Of course, not having county panellists involved takes away from it, as well.

Leinster league is a strange affair as teams tend to opt in and out and some counties didn't have their stronger clubs. Leagues are hard enough to get games played as they are and in reality, they are just leagues. Does anyone ever truly develop from playing league matches? Rathdowney Errill plodded through the league but were a different animal in the championship. All they realistically do is help you to get fit for the summer and improve touch.

If we want to improve club hurling in Laois I think the answer is in coaching and permanently combining clubs from weaker areas. Mainly though, it is in the coaching from U8-U14. If a lad is not flying at U-14, he is probably never going to be a good senior hurler. They don't get made later by coaching or exposing them to better hurlers. Can anyone think of exceptions? I bet they are few.

If lads aren't "flying" by u14,he won't be a good senior hurler!!!!

Laughable comment

I hope to god your not involved in juvenile coaching

And FYI

Here's 5 hurlers that I saw when they were juveniles who weren't rated

I think they turned out ok

James McGarry
Derek Lyng
Lar Corbett
Seanie McMahon
Gearoid McInerney

Blow-in

Players need to be exposed to games of higher quality especially at younger levels. We really need to use the success of the county team this year to create a tradition but I dont see our county board doing anything, so could we as a group come up with something realistic and simple. We currently have no hurling specific GDA in the county and the 2 supposed dual guys are certainly far from it.

clonadmad

Quote from: Zooming around on November 18, 2019, 05:36:25 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 05:22:25 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 03:33:54 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 02:29:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 12:40:56 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 18, 2019, 12:07:42 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 11:36:23 AM
Thoughts on this lads

With Mullins and Carlow teams taking part in the KK leagues,is it something laois clubs should look at?

Partake in kk or Tipp leagues?

It seems to have paid off for the carlow clubs

What league do they take part in?

http://www.kilkennygaa.ie/fixtures?compGroupID=61407&orderTBCLast=Y

Thanks.  Is that a junior league?

I was once told there are 4 senior hurling clubs in Carlow.

There are

But do they play in the KK senior hurling league?  Seems the teams they are playing against are junior type teams.

Agree, a midlands league with Kildare, Laois, Carlow and Westmeath might work.  Time to think outside the box in terms of promoting hurling and making it stronger in the 'less favoured' counties.

Midlands league is a waste of time,there's been no buy in

Also our clubs Playing club teams who are from counties below us in the hurling firmament?

We need to be thinking about making the jump to top 6/8 counties at this stage

Abbeyleix playing Thurles or The Harps against Comer in games that matter would improve all our club hurlers over time.

We are fighting against a culture of defeat and apathy in laois as much as anything else

Our U12 hurlers hurling in Kilkenny was a good idea. Certainly our club reaped the benefits from it. It is physically a much different game. The tackling is harder. It's a pity that it wasn't continued.

I have seen laois u12 and u14 clubs playing challenge games against Tipp and kk opposition and being like rabbits in the headlights at the bite and intensity of these teams and how hard they hit (fairly in most cases,i might add)

But do you know what

By the time they have played a second or third game against teams from these counties in quick succession,they get conditioned and adapt

If you want to be the best,you test yourself against the best

blueandwhite1

Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 06:55:36 PM
Quote from: blueandwhite1 on November 18, 2019, 04:02:01 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 18, 2019, 03:43:16 PM
A Leinster League used to operate (and perhaps still does?), but interest in it seemed to dwindle. Of course, not having county panellists involved takes away from it, as well.

Leinster league is a strange affair as teams tend to opt in and out and some counties didn't have their stronger clubs. Leagues are hard enough to get games played as they are and in reality, they are just leagues. Does anyone ever truly develop from playing league matches? Rathdowney Errill plodded through the league but were a different animal in the championship. All they realistically do is help you to get fit for the summer and improve touch.

If we want to improve club hurling in Laois I think the answer is in coaching and permanently combining clubs from weaker areas. Mainly though, it is in the coaching from U8-U14. If a lad is not flying at U-14, he is probably never going to be a good senior hurler. They don't get made later by coaching or exposing them to better hurlers. Can anyone think of exceptions? I bet they are few.

If lads aren't "flying" by u14,he won't be a good senior hurler!!!!

Laughable comment

I hope to god your not involved in juvenile coaching

And FYI

Here's 5 hurlers that I saw when they were juveniles who weren't rated

I think they turned out ok

James McGarry
Derek Lyng
Lar Corbett
Seanie McMahon
Gearoid McInerney

Players that weren't rated is very very different from players that weren't good enough. I'll bet you every one of the players above had all the skills of the game at 15 or 16 years of age. If you look at each of them in fact you will find that they were successful underage hurlers. Yes, I have been heavily involved in underage hurling coaching and still am occasionally. This is why I am so passionate about the fact that if a lad doesn't have all the skills at U14 then the only real development they do afterwards in physical and they add cuteness. If a chap can't strike a ball on the run from both sides at 14 or rise a ball at speed in a ruck then they won't in later life. Their skills have become embedded by then and where they might get a bit sharper they don't fundamentally improve. Pat Critchley said the same himself a few years ago managing Laois minor teams. All the coaching in the world from 16-18 won't fix what wasn't right earlier. Paudie Butler, who oversaw Tipp's underage system for years said the same when he came to Laois.

clonadmad

Quote from: blueandwhite1 on November 19, 2019, 08:30:09 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on November 18, 2019, 06:55:36 PM
Quote from: blueandwhite1 on November 18, 2019, 04:02:01 PM
Quote from: burdizzo on November 18, 2019, 03:43:16 PM
A Leinster League used to operate (and perhaps still does?), but interest in it seemed to dwindle. Of course, not having county panellists involved takes away from it, as well.

Leinster league is a strange affair as teams tend to opt in and out and some counties didn't have their stronger clubs. Leagues are hard enough to get games played as they are and in reality, they are just leagues. Does anyone ever truly develop from playing league matches? Rathdowney Errill plodded through the league but were a different animal in the championship. All they realistically do is help you to get fit for the summer and improve touch.

If we want to improve club hurling in Laois I think the answer is in coaching and permanently combining clubs from weaker areas. Mainly though, it is in the coaching from U8-U14. If a lad is not flying at U-14, he is probably never going to be a good senior hurler. They don't get made later by coaching or exposing them to better hurlers. Can anyone think of exceptions? I bet they are few.

If lads aren't "flying" by u14,he won't be a good senior hurler!!!!

Laughable comment

I hope to god your not involved in juvenile coaching

And FYI

Here's 5 hurlers that I saw when they were juveniles who weren't rated

I think they turned out ok

James McGarry
Derek Lyng
Lar Corbett
Seanie McMahon
Gearoid McInerney

Players that weren't rated is very very different from players that weren't good enough. I'll bet you every one of the players above had all the skills of the game at 15 or 16 years of age. If you look at each of them in fact you will find that they were successful underage hurlers. Yes, I have been heavily involved in underage hurling coaching and still am occasionally. This is why I am so passionate about the fact that if a lad doesn't have all the skills at U14 then the only real development they do afterwards in physical and they add cuteness. If a chap can't strike a ball on the run from both sides at 14 or rise a ball at speed in a ruck then they won't in later life. Their skills have become embedded by then and where they might get a bit sharper they don't fundamentally improve. Pat Critchley said the same himself a few years ago managing Laois minor teams. All the coaching in the world from 16-18 won't fix what wasn't right earlier. Paudie Butler, who oversaw Tipp's underage system for years said the same when he came to Laois.


"They were successful underage hurlers"

Actually they weren't because none of them got with an asses roar of county minor panels when they were eligible.

Lads develop at different stages and need to be keep within the respective club systems and not discarded at 14

You'd swear we were so flush with hurlers in Laois that we could do this when the opposite is the case.

The reality here is that in juvenile coaching and development isn't at the level that it's at in the top 8 counties.

Witness our county champions killing the ball on the Hurley last Sunday when it should be in the hand every time