Meath vs Dublin - Leinster final - the day before the fair.

[thejuice]

Before the match McEntee was very adamant that "this match won't define our season". I think he was expecting to lose something like 20 points to 10, shake hands, walk away and then get on with the real focus of R4.

But he was very shook after the match. I'd guess down to the fact that with Dublin being below par, they actually competed really well for 50 minutes, won their fair share of possession, but a return of 4 scores from 25 scoring chances was just horrendous. I'd say beyond his wildest nightmare.

So all he needed was some smart ass reporter asking him about hurling in the post match press conference. The fact that the reporter deemed it even a question worth chancing would indicate that McEntee is a lot more forthcoming regarding small ball activities than other managers. Imagine asking Jim Gavin if Con O'Callaghan is allowed play a hurling game for Cuala a week before the All Ireland quarter-final! Or Harte or Bonner or anyone else similar questions.

I'd say the reporter knew full well the reaction he would get. And the county board's half-assed explanation is exactly the response deserved.

He's the leader, he didn't lead, he made an idiot of himself. Jim Gavin would never lose his composure like that.

A bit of insight. Jimmy is a bit of a strange one. He has a tendency to ask questions that seem to get under the skin of the interviewee. He was doing the same to Nick Fitzgerald in a recent interview before the Christy Ring Cup and Nick was audibly getting irritated by the line of questions. So I think there might be a bit more to it than is being reported. Now Andy just hasn't the calmest temperament so it sort of came to a head. I don't think it's just that one particular question. Andy could have handled it better but I'd cut him a fair amount of slack.

[Hound]

The impact of this on the senior inter-county championship is, bluntly, a secondary consideration unless there is a revenue meltdown and although last year's football gates were down, they were offset by the rise in hurling figures"

So it's fck the rest of us......

I know nobody has any interest in the this, but I'll keep saying it.

To date, the Games Development Funding has had no affect on Dublin winning 6 All Irelands and 14 out of 15 Leinsters. All the players involved were already in the system and beyond the reach of GPOs and the development funds.

Dublin dominating Leinster isn't unique. There have been other cycles when rest of Leinster weren't great. Dublin won 9 out of 12 Leinsters in the 70s and 80s, when Heffo got them fit and organised. And that might have been 12 out of 12 but for Eugene McGee 
I genuinely think Kildare especially will be challenging Dublin soon (they should very soon have a strong, deep panel. They need one or two players to also become the best in the country in their position. )

If the games development funds are to have any impact on the Dublin senior intercounty team, it'll be future teams. So beware!
(Although whether there'll be that many talented lads who only went to the GAA because of the GPO, remains to be seen).

There are plenty of real advantages we do actually have, some of which might even be unfair, that should be the focus. (There should should be some move to disburse sponsorship funds more equitably, in a way which still encourages Dublin to go out and find sponsorship. If the provincial winners who are in Dublin's Super 8 group would prefer to play their Super 8 game in a neutral province rather than Croke Park, they should be given that option).

As for rolling out GPOs outside Dublin, GPOs will only make a real difference outside Dublin in places where they are losing youngsters to other sports, or places where they don't have experienced coaches/ex-players to give parents who are taking on teams some pointers in how to teach kids the basics. The "soccer towns" are the ones which should be a benefit if you got a good GPO making a sustained effort.

But really county boards should be running "Coach the coach" type courses anyway, then that alone will cover off a big chunk of what needs to be done (if the bulk of the sporting inclined kids in the town already go up to the GAA club).

The funding came into place in 2005 and roughly €1m a year since.

Primary school ages 2005  1st Class age 7 to 6th class age 12
Those kids ages now 21 - 26

Yep no affect at all, move along folks nothing to see here...just coincidence the ladies picked up a senior AI as well.

Ah chrisakes Dinny, those lads were all ensconced with their clubs by then and would have seen nothing of the GPO at the clubs.

The ladies have improved because of population and development squads. Same for the hurlers. The ladies won All Irelands because as well as having good depth, they have 2 or 3 of the best players in the country. If the hurlers had Con, they'd be very close to the best. They need a reliable elite forward to make that final step.

GPOs go nowhere near elite players. They really need to do a documentary following the life of a GPO, to get rid of the myths!

[Hound]

Before the match McEntee was very adamant that "this match won't define our season". I think he was expecting to lose something like 20 points to 10, shake hands, walk away and then get on with the real focus of R4.

But he was very shook after the match. I'd guess down to the fact that with Dublin being below par, they actually competed really well for 50 minutes, won their fair share of possession, but a return of 4 scores from 25 scoring chances was just horrendous. I'd say beyond his wildest nightmare.

So all he needed was some smart ass reporter asking him about hurling in the post match press conference. The fact that the reporter deemed it even a question worth chancing would indicate that McEntee is a lot more forthcoming regarding small ball activities than other managers. Imagine asking Jim Gavin if Con O'Callaghan is allowed play a hurling game for Cuala a week before the All Ireland quarter-final! Or Harte or Bonner or anyone else similar questions.

I'd say the reporter knew full well the reaction he would get. And the county board's half-assed explanation is exactly the response deserved.

He's the leader, he didn't lead, he made an idiot of himself. Jim Gavin would never lose his composure like that.

Jim Gavin will never be in a similar losing position for us to know how he would conduct himself 

Well if we did lose this year, and someone asked him afterwards if he is sorry now that he didn't try hard to get Diarmuid back, I don't think he'd react too kindly. Albeit, I doubt he'd burst into expletives!

[macdanger2]

2010's : "Dublin's dominance is ruining the game"
2000's : "Ulster football is ruining the game"
1990's : "Meath have single handidly saved football"
1970's & 1980's : "Kerry's dominance is ruining football"

It seems in the GAA we need something every decade to rail against and it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel but all things come to an end.

 

[Hound]

Couple of interesting results at Leinster U20 level over the last couple of nights:

U20 Football championship
Laois 0-17 Kildare 1-11
Laois corner forward Whelan helping himself to 10 points

U20 Hurling championship
Offaly 1-29 Dublin 2-25 AET
A 17 year old for Offaly getting 20 points apparently. The bulk from frees, but quite the total.

Don't think there's a backdoor in these championships so big disappointment for the losers, but have to give great credit to Laois and Offaly (who both played away from home)

[Dinny Breen]

The impact of this on the senior inter-county championship is, bluntly, a secondary consideration unless there is a revenue meltdown and although last year's football gates were down, they were offset by the rise in hurling figures"

So it's fck the rest of us......

I know nobody has any interest in the this, but I'll keep saying it.

To date, the Games Development Funding has had no affect on Dublin winning 6 All Irelands and 14 out of 15 Leinsters. All the players involved were already in the system and beyond the reach of GPOs and the development funds.

Dublin dominating Leinster isn't unique. There have been other cycles when rest of Leinster weren't great. Dublin won 9 out of 12 Leinsters in the 70s and 80s, when Heffo got them fit and organised. And that might have been 12 out of 12 but for Eugene McGee 
I genuinely think Kildare especially will be challenging Dublin soon (they should very soon have a strong, deep panel. They need one or two players to also become the best in the country in their position. )

If the games development funds are to have any impact on the Dublin senior intercounty team, it'll be future teams. So beware!
(Although whether there'll be that many talented lads who only went to the GAA because of the GPO, remains to be seen).

There are plenty of real advantages we do actually have, some of which might even be unfair, that should be the focus. (There should should be some move to disburse sponsorship funds more equitably, in a way which still encourages Dublin to go out and find sponsorship. If the provincial winners who are in Dublin's Super 8 group would prefer to play their Super 8 game in a neutral province rather than Croke Park, they should be given that option).

As for rolling out GPOs outside Dublin, GPOs will only make a real difference outside Dublin in places where they are losing youngsters to other sports, or places where they don't have experienced coaches/ex-players to give parents who are taking on teams some pointers in how to teach kids the basics. The "soccer towns" are the ones which should be a benefit if you got a good GPO making a sustained effort.

But really county boards should be running "Coach the coach" type courses anyway, then that alone will cover off a big chunk of what needs to be done (if the bulk of the sporting inclined kids in the town already go up to the GAA club).

The funding came into place in 2005 and roughly €1m a year since.

Primary school ages 2005  1st Class age 7 to 6th class age 12
Those kids ages now 21 - 26

Yep no affect at all, move along folks nothing to see here...just coincidence the ladies picked up a senior AI as well.

Ah chrisakes Dinny, those lads were all ensconced with their clubs by then and would have seen nothing of the GPO at the clubs.

The ladies have improved because of population and development squads. Same for the hurlers. The ladies won All Irelands because as well as having good depth, they have 2 or 3 of the best players in the country. If the hurlers had Con, they'd be very close to the best. They need a reliable elite forward to make that final step.

GPOs go nowhere near elite players. They really need to do a documentary following the life of a GPO, to get rid of the myths!

These players weren't elite between 7-12 years of age but if their clubs employed a GPO they were touched directly or indirectly by a GPO who would have coached the coaches. Very disingenuous to claim they were already ensconced in their clubs, developmental structures play a key role in development and retention of young players. GDO's have an influence on those structures.

Stop rolling out the "best players in the country argument"  you are above that. Players are nurtured and developed, they don't just pop up out of thin air.

You are deliberately  understating the role of GDO's, I am not saying they are the reason but they are certainly a an inorganic factor along side huge sponsorship and playing majority of their games at home.

[Gael85]

Did the Dublin team go to work today or were they all off on some recovery sessions for the day?

I remember back in the days of Whealan and Jayo the whole Dublin team after a championship game used to go out playing golf in Hollystown of a Monday courtesy of Oliver Barry. Struck me back then that they had it handy lifestyle wise.

Money and funding players lifestyles is a huge part of this and yesterday was like professionals against amateurs. The Dublin players can meet up regularly and train 3 to 4 times a day, that also makes a massive difference. The players themselves admit to this where they say they are all close knit and like a big family.

I'd say most of the Dublin panel don't do much in the line of work during the championship campaign and are basically full time Gaelic Footballers. This is the major advantage they have over every other team.

Some lads here are digging into the past and comparing Kerry and Dublins dominance back in the day. It was almost the same thing back then, all the Kerry lads had jobs fixed up for them back then and were earning money off washing machines and ovens and ranges, it was probably the same for the Dubs once they got up and running.

You be disappointed to hear the Dublin celebrated Sunday night and Monday.  Players outside starting 15 from Sunday played with club last night.

[seafoid]

The impact of this on the senior inter-county championship is, bluntly, a secondary consideration unless there is a revenue meltdown and although last year's football gates were down, they were offset by the rise in hurling figures"

So it's fck the rest of us......

I know nobody has any interest in the this, but I'll keep saying it.

To date, the Games Development Funding has had no affect on Dublin winning 6 All Irelands and 14 out of 15 Leinsters. All the players involved were already in the system and beyond the reach of GPOs and the development funds.

Dublin dominating Leinster isn't unique. There have been other cycles when rest of Leinster weren't great. Dublin won 9 out of 12 Leinsters in the 70s and 80s, when Heffo got them fit and organised. And that might have been 12 out of 12 but for Eugene McGee 
I genuinely think Kildare especially will be challenging Dublin soon (they should very soon have a strong, deep panel. They need one or two players to also become the best in the country in their position. )

If the games development funds are to have any impact on the Dublin senior intercounty team, it'll be future teams. So beware!
(Although whether there'll be that many talented lads who only went to the GAA because of the GPO, remains to be seen).

Do you honestly believe that, Hound?


manfromdelmonte
"Dubs skill level is much higher than most teams
Kick with both feet, pass off either hand, step off either foot
Plus maximise every advantage going - 3/4 steps extra while bouncing the ball, cutting in front of chasing player while soloing or running, setting screens to get space to shoot.
All highly coachable"

Just a freak of nature, is it ?

[RadioGAAGAA]

I know nobody has any interest in the this, but I'll keep saying it.

To date, the Games Development Funding has had no affect on Dublin winning 6 All Irelands and 14 out of 15 Leinsters. All the players involved were already in the system and beyond the reach of GPOs and the development funds.

So you've no problem with them taking that money away from Dublin and distribute it among all 32 counties then?

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/talk-of-over-funding-for-dublin-does-not-sit-well-with-kevin-mcmanamon-1.3938509

Talk of over-funding for Dublin does not sit well with Kevin McManamon
Dublin star doesn't agree with those who say GAA has created a monster by investing so much
about 7 hours ago
Paul Keane


Kevin McManamon attempts to sum up his career with Dublin and his various successes, but can't quite find the right words. "My success has been for free, if that makes sense," he said.

Playing for Dublin, he explained, has always been about his heart overruling his head. Money, and even sense and logic at times, have never been guiding principles. It's why he and a pal at St Jude's set up a fresh food company at one stage to allow McManamon to work irregular hours and devote more time to football.

"It was just so I could play football really, I didn't really enjoy the job that much," explained the six-time All-Ireland winner.

The argument that continues to rage about Dublin footballers enjoying a moneyed existence and an unfair advantage over their rivals doesn't sit easily with McManamon.

"Yeah, and it comes out the odd time and people say it's all about money, and you're kind of just used to it at this stage. Some people are trying to use it as bait to wind us up. You just kind of smile at it.

"Anyone in my career that's supported me or that's helped me become the player I am doesn't get paid. That's how I would look at it. At Jude's, it's great to see, you go up the odd time to the academy and there's hundreds of young lads playing, and they're all volunteers that are giving their time to train them and give them a good Saturday morning, to make them enjoy football and hurling."

McManamon's take will not appease those who argue that the GAA has created a monster by investing so much in Dublin to the detriment of their neighbours and rivals.

The figure of almost €18 million that has been pumped into Dublin in games development and coaching grants between 2007 and 2018 – Cork is next on €1.4 million in that period – has been consistently highlighted.


Title successes
The end result, it is claimed, is Dublin's 14 Leinster title successes in the last 15 seasons. Under Jim Gavin they have won 21 out of 21 provincial games with a staggering 346 points to spare. Meath felt their full force just last Sunday, losing the Leinster final by 1-17 to 0-4.

"I don't know, I don't know the [financial] figures. I don't know anything about it," said McManamon. "I'd leave that up to John Costello and the lads in the county board, but does it affect us? It's hard to know. Obviously if you say those figures it makes it sound like it does. I don't feel it or experience it."

[RadioGAAGAA]

If the money doesn't make a big deal to the dubs, then take it off them.

Simples.

[kerryforsam19]

Should've been black card for small there

Agreed, it was a trip away from the ball, as the Meath man was trying to get free.
Then again, the referee and linesmen are auditioning for a Dublin All-Ireland.

The idiot that accuses me trolling  then about questioning referees integrity??🤣🤣 my husband gave up refereeing  because chaps like you abusing him whether on sideline or keyboard. 

[macdanger2]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/talk-of-over-funding-for-dublin-does-not-sit-well-with-kevin-mcmanamon-1.3938509

Talk of over-funding for Dublin does not sit well with Kevin McManamon
Dublin star doesn't agree with those who say GAA has created a monster by investing so much
about 7 hours ago
Paul Keane


Kevin McManamon attempts to sum up his career with Dublin and his various successes, but can't quite find the right words. "My success has been for free, if that makes sense," he said.

Playing for Dublin, he explained, has always been about his heart overruling his head. Money, and even sense and logic at times, have never been guiding principles. It's why he and a pal at St Jude's set up a fresh food company at one stage to allow McManamon to work irregular hours and devote more time to football.

"It was just so I could play football really, I didn't really enjoy the job that much," explained the six-time All-Ireland winner.

The argument that continues to rage about Dublin footballers enjoying a moneyed existence and an unfair advantage over their rivals doesn't sit easily with McManamon.

"Yeah, and it comes out the odd time and people say it's all about money, and you're kind of just used to it at this stage. Some people are trying to use it as bait to wind us up. You just kind of smile at it.

"Anyone in my career that's supported me or that's helped me become the player I am doesn't get paid. That's how I would look at it. At Jude's, it's great to see, you go up the odd time to the academy and there's hundreds of young lads playing, and they're all volunteers that are giving their time to train them and give them a good Saturday morning, to make them enjoy football and hurling."

McManamon's take will not appease those who argue that the GAA has created a monster by investing so much in Dublin to the detriment of their neighbours and rivals.

The figure of almost €18 million that has been pumped into Dublin in games development and coaching grants between 2007 and 2018 – Cork is next on €1.4 million in that period – has been consistently highlighted.


Title successes
The end result, it is claimed, is Dublin's 14 Leinster title successes in the last 15 seasons. Under Jim Gavin they have won 21 out of 21 provincial games with a staggering 346 points to spare. Meath felt their full force just last Sunday, losing the Leinster final by 1-17 to 0-4.

"I don't know, I don't know the [financial] figures. I don't know anything about it," said McManamon. "I'd leave that up to John Costello and the lads in the county board, but does it affect us? It's hard to know. Obviously if you say those figures it makes it sound like it does. I don't feel it or experience it."

He's either not listening or being disigenuous with that statement. Nobody (or very few at any rate) is saying that the money (or indeed the argument about CP being used as a home venue) is what makes Dublin so good but it's definitely an advantage over other teams

[twohands!!!]

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/talk-of-over-funding-for-dublin-does-not-sit-well-with-kevin-mcmanamon-1.3938509

Talk of over-funding for Dublin does not sit well with Kevin McManamon
Dublin star doesn't agree with those who say GAA has created a monster by investing so much
about 7 hours ago
Paul Keane


Kevin McManamon attempts to sum up his career with Dublin and his various successes, but can't quite find the right words. "My success has been for free, if that makes sense," he said.

Playing for Dublin, he explained, has always been about his heart overruling his head. Money, and even sense and logic at times, have never been guiding principles. It's why he and a pal at St Jude's set up a fresh food company at one stage to allow McManamon to work irregular hours and devote more time to football.

"It was just so I could play football really, I didn't really enjoy the job that much," explained the six-time All-Ireland winner.

The argument that continues to rage about Dublin footballers enjoying a moneyed existence and an unfair advantage over their rivals doesn't sit easily with McManamon.

"Yeah, and it comes out the odd time and people say it's all about money, and you're kind of just used to it at this stage. Some people are trying to use it as bait to wind us up. You just kind of smile at it.

"Anyone in my career that's supported me or that's helped me become the player I am doesn't get paid. That's how I would look at it. At Jude's, it's great to see, you go up the odd time to the academy and there's hundreds of young lads playing, and they're all volunteers that are giving their time to train them and give them a good Saturday morning, to make them enjoy football and hurling."

McManamon's take will not appease those who argue that the GAA has created a monster by investing so much in Dublin to the detriment of their neighbours and rivals.

The figure of almost €18 million that has been pumped into Dublin in games development and coaching grants between 2007 and 2018 – Cork is next on €1.4 million in that period – has been consistently highlighted.


Title successes
The end result, it is claimed, is Dublin's 14 Leinster title successes in the last 15 seasons. Under Jim Gavin they have won 21 out of 21 provincial games with a staggering 346 points to spare. Meath felt their full force just last Sunday, losing the Leinster final by 1-17 to 0-4.

"I don't know, I don't know the [financial] figures. I don't know anything about it," said McManamon. "I'd leave that up to John Costello and the lads in the county board, but does it affect us? It's hard to know. Obviously if you say those figures it makes it sound like it does. I don't feel it or experience it."

He's either not listening or being disigenuous with that statement. Nobody (or very few at any rate) is saying that the money (or indeed the argument about CP being used as a home venue) is what makes Dublin so good but it's definitely an advantage over other teams

It would be interesting to ask Kev how many Leinster titles and All-Irelands he expects Dublin to win in the next 20 years and if he thinks the current teams achievements are going to look a lot less impressive if the Dubs are winning every second year (or more often)

[seafoid]

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/time-to-re-balance-the-gaa-playing-scales-1.3939605

Sir, – Your contributors make many interesting and salient points regarding Dublin's football dominance in Leinster ("Questioning Dublin's Advantage", June 27th) However this needs to be given some historical perspective.

Sport is a numbers game and as a small east Galway hurling club we used to take advantage of Galway's presence in Croke Park to load up a bus with U-12 and U-14 players and take in a challenge game against some Dublin club before travelling onwards to Croke Park.

In the early years we invariably won the fixture and we were somewhat dismissive of their laboured hurling skill, but as the years progressed we noticed two things: First, as our numbers decreased and we had to use U-12 and 13 players to make up a team in our U-14 division, Dublin clubs invariably had more than one team competing at U-14 level and restricted their players to their age grade and their basic skills had improved enormously.

Second, the Dublin facilities were much improved and more extensive than what was available back home and money issues were nowhere near as pressing as they were/are in every rural club.

We were astonished to find that Dublin clubs had not one, but two or more paid games development coaches in their ranks while in Galway we had one to cover the whole county. Hence the vast improvement in skills level and players participating. So while the ethos of amateur volunteer coaches was still the norm in most other counties, the paid coach is common in Dublin GAA circles and this huge investment is demonstrably bearing fruit, not only in county football and hurling but also at club level.

Now many rural clubs struggle financially and with playing numbers and the availability of volunteer coaches the unthinkable is happening, with the greatest of traditional local enmities being set aside and adjacent parishes and clubs amalgamating. Now possibilities being considered include some rural counties – such as Sligo and Leitrim for example – pooling their playing and financial resources in an effort to become competitive again.


Meanwhile, Dublin GAA clubs continue to tap into the huge playing numbers and members at their disposal and are leaving the rest trailing far behind. They can hardly be criticised for their well-resourced success and professionalism and a pro-active response to the realisation in years past that the GAA had to compete for the minds of city youth and to directly confront the growing attraction of soccer, and to a lesser extent, rugby, in Dublin.

They have achieved this now. The down-side of increased professionalism and playing numbers of course is that the GAA is in danger of becoming, like soccer especially, the preserve of the super talented player to the exclusion of the just plain good or the social or enthusiastic player. We also wondered, then and now, if Dublin GAA was becoming a middle-class exploit as annual club memberships seemed to be set at between €250 and €400 per family, which would be prohibitive for many families in Galway and I'm sure for many Dubliners also.

For other counties or cities to catch up and challenge Dublin they might well follow the Dublin model, but the GAA nationally must look again at the apparent disproportionate distribution of its financial allocation to Dublin and to assist other counties to copy their model and employ more full-time development coaches in an effort to help re-balance the playing scales to help keep the competitions alive and the players and the paying public interested. – Yours, etc,

TOM FINN,

Ballinasloe,

Co Galway.