HOW WOULD YOU VOTE IN A BORDER POLL?

[Hereiam]

One thing people forget is that Westminster will want to saddle the north with a portion of the debt which the UK currently has built up. This will happen with Scotland as well if they do vote to leave, do not think for one minute that Westminster will just say "ok chaps off you go"

[armaghniac]

I've seen a lot of people saying 'we can't afford the North' but surely on an island our size we'd be better off having an All Ireland economy? Are studies like the following nonsense?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/arid-20388959.html

I'm not an economist but surely it stands to reason that after 100 years, most of which has been spent as an economic failure, the move towards an all-island economy can only benefit the North.

I don't think anyone denys that this will improve production in the North. However, consumption in the North is supported by a bung from Westminster every year, and therein lies the debate.

If an agreed Ireland can be achieved the costs associated will be resolved. Britain would pay to be rid of us.

I agree that Britain will be glad to get rid of us and should chip in accordingly. However, there is a confounding factor in that they do not want rid of Scotland and a careful formula is needed if NI is to get a lot of money after leaving and Scotland is not.

One thing people forget is that Westminster will want to saddle the north with a portion of the debt which the UK currently has built up. This will happen with Scotland as well if they do vote to leave, do not think for one minute that Westminster will just say "ok chaps off you go"

As I said if NI was alone I suspect the British would be open to negotiation on these matters, as NI contributes nothing to the ability to pay the debt at present,  but Scotland confuses things.

Perhaps the debt could be taken on by anyone wanting to remain British in the 6 counties, that should cause some thought among some.

[Applesisapples]

I've seen a lot of people saying 'we can't afford the North' but surely on an island our size we'd be better off having an All Ireland economy? Are studies like the following nonsense?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/arid-20388959.html

I'm not an economist but surely it stands to reason that after 100 years, most of which has been spent as an economic failure, the move towards an all-island economy can only benefit the North.

I don't think anyone denys that this will improve production in the North. However, consumption in the North is supported by a bung from Westminster every year, and therein lies the debate.

If an agreed Ireland can be achieved the costs associated will be resolved. Britain would pay to be rid of us.

I agree that Britain will be glad to get rid of us and should chip in accordingly. However, there is a confounding factor in that they do not want rid of Scotland and a careful formula is needed if NI is to get a lot of money after leaving and Scotland is not.

One thing people forget is that Westminster will want to saddle the north with a portion of the debt which the UK currently has built up. This will happen with Scotland as well if they do vote to leave, do not think for one minute that Westminster will just say "ok chaps off you go"

As I said if NI was alone I suspect the British would be open to negotiation on these matters, as NI contributes nothing to the ability to pay the debt at present,  but Scotland confuses things.

Perhaps the debt could be taken on by anyone wanting to remain British in the 6 counties, that should cause some thought among some.

Scotland will be gone before they turn to here.

[armaghniac]

I've seen a lot of people saying 'we can't afford the North' but surely on an island our size we'd be better off having an All Ireland economy? Are studies like the following nonsense?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/arid-20388959.html

I'm not an economist but surely it stands to reason that after 100 years, most of which has been spent as an economic failure, the move towards an all-island economy can only benefit the North.

I don't think anyone denys that this will improve production in the North. However, consumption in the North is supported by a bung from Westminster every year, and therein lies the debate.

If an agreed Ireland can be achieved the costs associated will be resolved. Britain would pay to be rid of us.

I agree that Britain will be glad to get rid of us and should chip in accordingly. However, there is a confounding factor in that they do not want rid of Scotland and a careful formula is needed if NI is to get a lot of money after leaving and Scotland is not.

One thing people forget is that Westminster will want to saddle the north with a portion of the debt which the UK currently has built up. This will happen with Scotland as well if they do vote to leave, do not think for one minute that Westminster will just say "ok chaps off you go"

As I said if NI was alone I suspect the British would be open to negotiation on these matters, as NI contributes nothing to the ability to pay the debt at present,  but Scotland confuses things.

Perhaps the debt could be taken on by anyone wanting to remain British in the 6 counties, that should cause some thought among some.

Scotland will be gone before they turn to here.

That's a scenario, that Scotland heads off soon and that they are sorted. Then Scotland leaving is bound to rev things up here.
However, it would be wise if some smart person devises a financial model that gives the right answer for Scotland and NI, and if that was used for Scotland to avoid any disputes afterwards. The only other observation is that model based on the present contribution of the place would also be quite favourable to Wales. The Welsh will not head off on their own, but if Scotland and NI both leave they might well want to do so as well.

[michaelg]

I've seen a lot of people saying 'we can't afford the North' but surely on an island our size we'd be better off having an All Ireland economy? Are studies like the following nonsense?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/arid-20388959.html

I'm not an economist but surely it stands to reason that after 100 years, most of which has been spent as an economic failure, the move towards an all-island economy can only benefit the North.

Comments like this gloss over the ailing ROI economy for the first 70 odd years of its existence where high unemployment and emigration was widespread.  Coupled with the propensity for a boom and bust style economy, it's maybe not just as straightforward as people think.

[johnnycool]

Micheal is Micheal, the worse leader of any political party in the history of this Island.

You can find any opinion on the internet

Happy to be proved wrong when you show me an instance when he showed leadership or backbone!

As bad as Brookeborough or Arlene ?
Did Martin ever put the future of the unit he is charge of in jeopardy ? Arlene did

In all fairness Arlene is a whole new level of incompetence along with the other leaders currently directing operations in the DUP.

TBH I'd my Dublin centric hat on when I made that statement about Micheal Martin.

[armaghniac]

I've seen a lot of people saying 'we can't afford the North' but surely on an island our size we'd be better off having an All Ireland economy? Are studies like the following nonsense?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/arid-20388959.html

I'm not an economist but surely it stands to reason that after 100 years, most of which has been spent as an economic failure, the move towards an all-island economy can only benefit the North.

Comments like this gloss over the ailing ROI economy for the first 70 odd years of its existence where high unemployment and emigration was widespread.  Coupled with the propensity for a boom and bust style economy, it's maybe not just as straightforward as people think.

No, they don't. Partition imposed a cost, greater for NI than the ROI, and still does. Those dislocations can be ameliorated. The ROI was not very prosperous after independence, but it was not prosperous before independence. The 1930s and 1940s were not great periods in world history for boosting your international trade. The ROI lost a few years at the start of the 1950s, but in the late 1950s they got the show on the road and have progressed relative to NI ever since.

[imtommygunn]

Micheal is Micheal, the worse leader of any political party in the history of this Island.

You can find any opinion on the internet

Happy to be proved wrong when you show me an instance when he showed leadership or backbone!

As bad as Brookeborough or Arlene ?
Did Martin ever put the future of the unit he is charge of in jeopardy ? Arlene did

In all fairness Arlene is a whole new level of incompetence along with the other leaders currently directing operations in the DUP.

TBH I'd my Dublin centric hat on when I made that statement about Micheal Martin.

A bigger question is who is the leader? Is it really Arlene?

[johnnycool]

Micheal is Micheal, the worse leader of any political party in the history of this Island.

You can find any opinion on the internet

Happy to be proved wrong when you show me an instance when he showed leadership or backbone!

As bad as Brookeborough or Arlene ?
Did Martin ever put the future of the unit he is charge of in jeopardy ? Arlene did

In all fairness Arlene is a whole new level of incompetence along with the other leaders currently directing operations in the DUP.

TBH I'd my Dublin centric hat on when I made that statement about Micheal Martin.

A bigger question is who is the leader? Is it really Arlene?

It's definitely not Arlene as Sammy, Poots, Ian O'G, Jeffery et all just ignore her and undermine her at every cut and turn. Hard to know what's going on there.

[imtommygunn]

It used to be said it was Dodds in charge but he's gone all quiet. They are definitely very fractured at present. There is a little bit of distraction going on too I suspect but definitely the bold Sammy is on a solo run.

[weareros]

Wouldn't be a big fan of Bruton but I thought he was very sensible

Brolly flunked that big time

Went the Angelo route

Didn't work at all, unsurprisingly

Claire Byrne is very distracting, a standing ovation indeed, but make sure not to stand up

To be fair Brolly was pointing out the anti abortion homophobia of the DUP and should have been asked to provide examples, which he did today on twitter.

He was right. People like Campbell are horrid individuals. But there's lots of Catholics North and South, and in the GAA who are homophobic. There's still a huge number who are anti-abortion in the South. And many Catholic Sinn Fein and SDLP voters in North and FF/FG voters in South are anti-abortion. Northern Catholics are more conservative. The Dana's of the world. In an eventual United Ireland there will be a bigger population of anti-abortion and anti-marriage equality. So not sure what Joe's point was. Those Gregory Campbell views won't go away in a UI - they will only get stronger. And the left/right divide on social issues will grow more intense.

Thought it was a good show overall. Was a bit surprised that both Mary Lou and Leo were cagey on the flag question and anthem. It's as well to be honest with the people and say there will be a new flag. But I suppose neither wanted a headline that they were getting rid of it. Got to protect those Southern votes.

[Angelo]

Is there a progressive voice in Unionist politics?

Is there anyone from the UUP/DUP side that you could genuinely say is trying to build a better society for the O6?

Some of the bigoted nonsense their elected officials come out are beyond the pale. Yer one Rosemary Barton coming out and saying people talking about GAA in the workplace was latent intimidation being a prime example. Everything about mainstream unionist politics is to incite, stoke and enflame sectarian tensions - that's their modus operandi so can people please tell us how we can engage with talks of a United Ireland with them?

[sid waddell]

Wouldn't be a big fan of Bruton but I thought he was very sensible

Brolly flunked that big time

Went the Angelo route

Didn't work at all, unsurprisingly

Claire Byrne is very distracting, a standing ovation indeed, but make sure not to stand up

To be fair Brolly was pointing out the anti abortion homophobia of the DUP and should have been asked to provide examples, which he did today on twitter.

The DUP are homophobic and in my view they are racist and white supremacist

Byrne cut Brolly off primarily because he used the word racism about Campbell

Ireland's defamation laws are draconian

RTE had to pay out 20k just last week because of what that far right troll I won't name said when he was on PrimeTime recently

They also had to pay out a much bigger sum again to homophobe John Waters, just because he was called a homophobe on RTE

I wouldn't be surprised that's the last we see of Brolly on RTE - for a long time at least - because any time he's on he's liable to say something that will cost them money

[sid waddell]

A bigger question is who is the leader? Is it really Arlene?

It's definitely not Arlene as Sammy, Poots, Ian O'G, Jeffery et all just ignore her and undermine her at every cut and turn. Hard to know what's going on there.

I don't think it's hard to understand

Foster is a woman

That's the reason

[Angelo]

Wouldn't be a big fan of Bruton but I thought he was very sensible

Brolly flunked that big time

Went the Angelo route

Didn't work at all, unsurprisingly

Claire Byrne is very distracting, a standing ovation indeed, but make sure not to stand up

To be fair Brolly was pointing out the anti abortion homophobia of the DUP and should have been asked to provide examples, which he did today on twitter.

The DUP are homophobic and in my view they are racist and white supremacist

Byrne cut Brolly off primarily because he used the word racism about Campbell

Ireland's defamation laws are draconian

RTE had to pay out 20k just last week because of what that far right troll I won't name said when he was on PrimeTime recently

They also had to pay out a much bigger sum again to homophobe John Waters, just because he was called a homophobe on RTE

I wouldn't be surprised that's the last we see of Brolly on RTE - for a long time at least - because any time he's on he's liable to say something that will cost them money

Yet Brian Dobson let Leo Varadkar make comments about SF being sectarian (noting vague or implied about it as it was very explicit using that exact label) which were later proven to be utterly false. Dobson allowed those comments to go unchecked and unchallenged.

So once again you make a very watery comment to defend the indefensible.