HOW WOULD YOU VOTE IN A BORDER POLL?

[five points]

Oh I did read beyond the headline

Literally nobody says Ireland is remotely near being perfect or anything like it but we are demonstrably a very successful state and one of the best places in the world to live

You claimed that "The UN ranks Ireland second in the world for quality of life" based on a very limited and flawed study.

[Applesisapples]

SF produce their paper and challenge the rest to follow suit.

Utter nonsense. And what would the rest do if SF did what you suggest? They would attack SF's plan and universally deride them as being trying to be divisive and provocative for even talking about United Ireland. Oh and misrepresent their plan as some sort of a demand for an immediate border

We can't do up a paper because the nasties might give out to us!!
"Nordie" Paranoia gone mad with you..

Let them deride and pick holes etc. Challenge them to come up with a better plan.

I've been giving ye the blueprint here for 10 or maybe 15 years at this stage.

PS sadly the thread is now filled with "You are ignorings...."
Hopefully the sensible posters will continue to engage with each other despite this.

You are as bad as Angelo, Nordie/freestater 2 sides, same coin.

[Applesisapples]

Reading some of the posts on here, I wouldn't want to share the 6 Co's with some of you never mind a UI.

[Angelo]

I'm not advocating solidarity on one hand. People should be conscionable to do what they want but I think FFG are being extremely disingenuous here in their pathetic excuses to not engage in dialogue on the United Ireland debate.

A border poll is going to happen despite the intransigence of FFGLab and DUP/UUP, it's those parties who are trying to fight against the tide. It's to do with the changing of demographics on both sides of the border and both due to the failings of the states on both sides of the border.

You should spend more time on articulating your own views than misrepresenting others.

If you weren't advocating solidarity you wouldn't be calling people you think are not sufficiently pro-united Ireland for your liking "pathetic"

Actually, maybe you're right, maybe you're not advocating solidarity at all

Maybe you're actually a DUP plant who is anti-united Ireland and all your bluster here is fiendishly designed to turn people off the idea

That's just a joke by the way, mate

But that's sort of how it comes across because the way you go on there's absolutely no way you'd persuade anybody to vote for a united Ireland and chances are you'd turn quite a few people off the idea

You're misrepresenting me again.

I'm calling them pathetic as they are pathetic. I'm not asking them to do anything, I will comment on what I perceive their actions to be and in this case they are pathetic.

The thing about it is they have blocked talks on this for decades, FFG have abandoned and villanised northern nationalists for decades. They should be ashamed of that but the times are now changing, The Border Poll will be a reality, whether they like it or not.

FFG are irrelevant to me as they intransigent to any sort of positive societal impact that threatens their own vested interests.

Tiocfaidh ar la is getting closer.

[sid waddell]

Oh I did read beyond the headline

Literally nobody says Ireland is remotely near being perfect or anything like it but we are demonstrably a very successful state and one of the best places in the world to live

You claimed that "The UN ranks Ireland second in the world for quality of life" based on a very limited and flawed study.

Ireland did rank second in the UN Human Development Index

But that doesn't satisfy you because apparently you're the expert in how to run a world Human Development Index

Forget the UN one, yours is the real one to trust, even if it's written in the back of a stamp

[sid waddell]

I'm not advocating solidarity on one hand. People should be conscionable to do what they want but I think FFG are being extremely disingenuous here in their pathetic excuses to not engage in dialogue on the United Ireland debate.

A border poll is going to happen despite the intransigence of FFGLab and DUP/UUP, it's those parties who are trying to fight against the tide. It's to do with the changing of demographics on both sides of the border and both due to the failings of the states on both sides of the border.

You should spend more time on articulating your own views than misrepresenting others.

If you weren't advocating solidarity you wouldn't be calling people you think are not sufficiently pro-united Ireland for your liking "pathetic"

Actually, maybe you're right, maybe you're not advocating solidarity at all

Maybe you're actually a DUP plant who is anti-united Ireland and all your bluster here is fiendishly designed to turn people off the idea

That's just a joke by the way, mate

But that's sort of how it comes across because the way you go on there's absolutely no way you'd persuade anybody to vote for a united Ireland and chances are you'd turn quite a few people off the idea

You're misrepresenting me again.

I'm calling them pathetic as they are pathetic. I'm not asking them to do anything, I will comment on what I perceive their actions to be and in this case they are pathetic.

The thing about it is they have blocked talks on this for decades, FFG have abandoned and villanised northern nationalists for decades. They should be ashamed of that but the times are now changing, The Border Poll will be a reality, whether they like it or not.

FFG are irrelevant to me as they intransigent to any sort of positive societal impact that threatens their own vested interests.

Tiocfaidh ar la is getting closer.

You claim FG and FF are irrelevant to you yet you spend most of your time posting about them

Nobody has to misrepresent you, and anyway your entire worldview is based on mispresenting others, truth means literally nothing to you

Keep it up if you want though, the more you post the more you turn people off a united Ireland

[Snapchap]

We can't do up a paper because the nasties might give out to us!!
"Nordie" Paranoia gone mad with you..

Let them deride and pick holes etc. Challenge them to come up with a better plan.

Unless you are utterly stupid, you'll have understood that when I say that:

They would attack SF's plan and universally deride them as being trying to be divisive and provocative for even talking about United Ireland. Oh and misrepresent their plan as some sort of a demand for an immediate border poll.

that I'm making the point that the entire endeavor on SF's behalf would be en exercise in futility, rather than a mere complaint that "the nasties might give out to us". I'm going to be kind and give you the benefit of the doubt as say you aren't stupid, but merely are trying to deliberately misrepresent me.

FFG have been challenged to engage in any form of planning for a few years now. Perhaps consider my question again. Which do you think the middle ground (those who will decide the result of the poll) would take more heed of: a plan produced with the involvement of the Irish Government, SF, the SDLP, and all other parties who say they want this same thing, or one just produced by SF?
And, given that a border poll is an inevitability, wouldn't you expect any Irish government to at least be prepared? and aside from that, wouldn't you think parties that call themselves "The Republican Party" and "the United Ireland Party" wouldn't need to be coxed and cajoled into planning for a united Ireland?

[Louther]

Reading some of the posts on here, I wouldn't want to share the 6 Co's with some of you never mind a UI.

[Angelo]

I'm not advocating solidarity on one hand. People should be conscionable to do what they want but I think FFG are being extremely disingenuous here in their pathetic excuses to not engage in dialogue on the United Ireland debate.

A border poll is going to happen despite the intransigence of FFGLab and DUP/UUP, it's those parties who are trying to fight against the tide. It's to do with the changing of demographics on both sides of the border and both due to the failings of the states on both sides of the border.

You should spend more time on articulating your own views than misrepresenting others.

If you weren't advocating solidarity you wouldn't be calling people you think are not sufficiently pro-united Ireland for your liking "pathetic"

Actually, maybe you're right, maybe you're not advocating solidarity at all

Maybe you're actually a DUP plant who is anti-united Ireland and all your bluster here is fiendishly designed to turn people off the idea

That's just a joke by the way, mate

But that's sort of how it comes across because the way you go on there's absolutely no way you'd persuade anybody to vote for a united Ireland and chances are you'd turn quite a few people off the idea

You're misrepresenting me again.

I'm calling them pathetic as they are pathetic. I'm not asking them to do anything, I will comment on what I perceive their actions to be and in this case they are pathetic.

The thing about it is they have blocked talks on this for decades, FFG have abandoned and villanised northern nationalists for decades. They should be ashamed of that but the times are now changing, The Border Poll will be a reality, whether they like it or not.

FFG are irrelevant to me as they intransigent to any sort of positive societal impact that threatens their own vested interests.

Tiocfaidh ar la is getting closer.

You claim FG and FF are irrelevant to you yet you spend most of your time posting about them

Nobody has to misrepresent you, and anyway your entire worldview is based on mispresenting others, truth means literally nothing to you

Keep it up if you want though, the more you post the more you turn people off a united Ireland

No I don't.

I said their intransigence to a border poll does not matter. It's going to happen with or without them down the line. Nobody is calling for a border poll tomorrow. SF are actively talking about opening the dialogue for this to happen in the coming years. FFG and the establishment media are utterly against it. There is nothing FFG can do to stop this happening down the line, they won't have the numbers to do so.

Policies and decisions they choose to implement at government level do have an impact and are relevant and it's why people under the age of 50 have completely jumped ship. It's an inevitability that SF will head up the government in the next election down south.

Might be more worth your while trying to make a coherent argument than the amount of time and effort you are making to construct false equivalences.

[seafoid]

I'm not advocating solidarity on one hand. People should be conscionable to do what they want but I think FFG are being extremely disingenuous here in their pathetic excuses to not engage in dialogue on the United Ireland debate.

A border poll is going to happen despite the intransigence of FFGLab and DUP/UUP, it's those parties who are trying to fight against the tide. It's to do with the changing of demographics on both sides of the border and both due to the failings of the states on both sides of the border.

You should spend more time on articulating your own views than misrepresenting others.

If you weren't advocating solidarity you wouldn't be calling people you think are not sufficiently pro-united Ireland for your liking "pathetic"

Actually, maybe you're right, maybe you're not advocating solidarity at all

Maybe you're actually a DUP plant who is anti-united Ireland and all your bluster here is fiendishly designed to turn people off the idea

That's just a joke by the way, mate

But that's sort of how it comes across because the way you go on there's absolutely no way you'd persuade anybody to vote for a united Ireland and chances are you'd turn quite a few people off the idea

You're misrepresenting me again.

I'm calling them pathetic as they are pathetic. I'm not asking them to do anything, I will comment on what I perceive their actions to be and in this case they are pathetic.

The thing about it is they have blocked talks on this for decades, FFG have abandoned and villanised northern nationalists for decades. They should be ashamed of that but the times are now changing, The Border Poll will be a reality, whether they like it or not.

FFG are irrelevant to me as they intransigent to any sort of positive societal impact that threatens their own vested interests.

Tiocfaidh ar la is getting closer.

There is no point in a border poll if people aren't ready for a United Ireland. People are going to want answers as to how NI would be integrated.
The abortion referendum is the reference for such an important vote . A citizens assembly of 100 people taken from all walks of life debated and assessed all of the issues that were expected to come up during the referendum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Assembly_(Ireland)#Eighth_Amendment

[five points]

Oh I did read beyond the headline

Literally nobody says Ireland is remotely near being perfect or anything like it but we are demonstrably a very successful state and one of the best places in the world to live

You claimed that "The UN ranks Ireland second in the world for quality of life" based on a very limited and flawed study.

Ireland did rank second in the UN Human Development Index

But that doesn't satisfy you because apparently you're the expert in how to run a world Human Development Index

Forget the UN one, yours is the real one to trust, even if it's written in the back of a stamp

Oops looks like I hit a nerve. For all our supposed sophistication, a surprising number of our people get ratty when our "best little country in the world" myth gets punctured. If they got half as ratty about our almost-once-a-decade average of serious recessions, or our poor infrastructure and social services, we'd have a much better country.

[dublin7]

We can't do up a paper because the nasties might give out to us!!
"Nordie" Paranoia gone mad with you..

Let them deride and pick holes etc. Challenge them to come up with a better plan.

Unless you are utterly stupid, you'll have understood that when I say that:

They would attack SF's plan and universally deride them as being trying to be divisive and provocative for even talking about United Ireland. Oh and misrepresent their plan as some sort of a demand for an immediate border poll.

that I'm making the point that the entire endeavor on SF's behalf would be en exercise in futility, rather than a mere complaint that "the nasties might give out to us". I'm going to be kind and give you the benefit of the doubt as say you aren't stupid, but merely are trying to deliberately misrepresent me.

FFG have been challenged to engage in any form of planning for a few years now. Perhaps consider my question again. Which do you think the middle ground (those who will decide the result of the poll) would take more heed of: a plan produced with the involvement of the Irish Government, SF, the SDLP, and all other parties who say they want this same thing, or one just produced by SF?
And, given that a border poll is an inevitability, wouldn't you expect any Irish government to at least be prepared? and aside from that, wouldn't you think parties that call themselves "The Republican Party" and "the United Ireland Party" wouldn't need to be coxed and cajoled into planning for a united Ireland?

The border poll is inevitable, but it won't be in the lifetime of this government so they're not going to waste any time and energy on it and as has been pointed out previously there's no demand from the electorate in the south for them to do anything differently.

SF have been given no indication from either the British or UK government that they intend to call a border poll in the short to medium term so that also accounts for the lack of any planning for a united Ireland

[johnnycool]

I'm not advocating solidarity on one hand. People should be conscionable to do what they want but I think FFG are being extremely disingenuous here in their pathetic excuses to not engage in dialogue on the United Ireland debate.

A border poll is going to happen despite the intransigence of FFGLab and DUP/UUP, it's those parties who are trying to fight against the tide. It's to do with the changing of demographics on both sides of the border and both due to the failings of the states on both sides of the border.

You should spend more time on articulating your own views than misrepresenting others.

If you weren't advocating solidarity you wouldn't be calling people you think are not sufficiently pro-united Ireland for your liking "pathetic"

Actually, maybe you're right, maybe you're not advocating solidarity at all

Maybe you're actually a DUP plant who is anti-united Ireland and all your bluster here is fiendishly designed to turn people off the idea

That's just a joke by the way, mate

But that's sort of how it comes across because the way you go on there's absolutely no way you'd persuade anybody to vote for a united Ireland and chances are you'd turn quite a few people off the idea

You're misrepresenting me again.

I'm calling them pathetic as they are pathetic. I'm not asking them to do anything, I will comment on what I perceive their actions to be and in this case they are pathetic.

The thing about it is they have blocked talks on this for decades, FFG have abandoned and villanised northern nationalists for decades. They should be ashamed of that but the times are now changing, The Border Poll will be a reality, whether they like it or not.

FFG are irrelevant to me as they intransigent to any sort of positive societal impact that threatens their own vested interests.

Tiocfaidh ar la is getting closer.

There is no point in a border poll if people aren't ready for a United Ireland. People are going to want answers as to how NI would be integrated.
The abortion referendum is the reference for such an important vote . A citizens assembly of 100 people taken from all walks of life debated and assessed all of the issues that were expected to come up during the referendum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Assembly_(Ireland)#Eighth_Amendment

This is the nub of it all though. Would the wee 6 just be integrated into a Dail/Dublin driven UI or do we seriously need to look at a New Ireland and I'd agree that the best way to do that would be a citizens forum or similar to eek that out.

[Itchy]

I cannot believe that there are so called Irish people on a GAA forum who are against Irish Unity. Hang your heads in shame. I get that there are loads of issues to sort out, no one is claiming it will be a straightforward process. But to actively be against unity is frankly disgusting.

Lets win them over rather than berate them.

They don't want to be won over but I think this board is very backward. Most of the Free Staters here seem to be died in the wool FFG supporters. FF are dust, Micheal Martin has finished them while FG are never going to be much more than a 25% first preference party, they are the Irish Tories and are toxic to anyone with a bit of humanity and sense of fairness. So this board is not really representative. Young people in the 26 have been failed by FFG policies which is why this demograph will not countenance voting for them. The momentum is building for a United Ireland and the desperate voices of opposition will not be enough to stop it.

We don't need to convince them, it's going to happen whether they like it or not. SF will be in power soon south of the border and they will be in a position to make this happen probably sometime in the next 10 years.

75% of "freestaters" Have voted on this poll for unification. And please, I was born in Cavan and live in the west of the country now. I do not like to be referred to as a "freestater".

Yes but 25% haven't.

The Free State is what I refer to it as, the island is partitioned into two states. If you are a republican then I'm sure you resent the free state as much as I do and what to bring about the cessation of two failed states on this island to one which is a more fairer and equitable society.

I am a republican however I do not "resent" the Republic of Ireland. I see it as a stepping stone for the full 32 county republic. We have a lot to be proud of against all the odds of making the Republic a successful nation. There are things that happened in it that I resent such as the power the Catholic Church were allowed to hold and the lack of action during the troubles and the downright ignoring of the troubles by many. But a strong Republic of Ireland makes unification much more likely as it will entice people from all backgrounds to want to join.

[Lar Naparka]

I'm not advocating solidarity on one hand. People should be conscionable to do what they want but I think FFG are being extremely disingenuous here in their pathetic excuses to not engage in dialogue on the United Ireland debate.

A border poll is going to happen despite the intransigence of FFGLab and DUP/UUP, it's those parties who are trying to fight against the tide. It's to do with the changing of demographics on both sides of the border and both due to the failings of the states on both sides of the border.

You should spend more time on articulating your own views than misrepresenting others.

If you weren't advocating solidarity you wouldn't be calling people you think are not sufficiently pro-united Ireland for your liking "pathetic"

Actually, maybe you're right, maybe you're not advocating solidarity at all

Maybe you're actually a DUP plant who is anti-united Ireland and all your bluster here is fiendishly designed to turn people off the idea

That's just a joke by the way, mate

But that's sort of how it comes across because the way you go on there's absolutely no way you'd persuade anybody to vote for a united Ireland and chances are you'd turn quite a few people off the idea

You're misrepresenting me again.

I'm calling them pathetic as they are pathetic. I'm not asking them to do anything, I will comment on what I perceive their actions to be and in this case they are pathetic.

The thing about it is they have blocked talks on this for decades, FFG have abandoned and villanised northern nationalists for decades. They should be ashamed of that but the times are now changing, The Border Poll will be a reality, whether they like it or not.

FFG are irrelevant to me as they intransigent to any sort of positive societal impact that threatens their own vested interests.

Tiocfaidh ar la is getting closer.

There is no point in a border poll if people aren't ready for a United Ireland. People are going to want answers as to how NI would be integrated.
The abortion referendum is the reference for such an important vote . A citizens assembly of 100 people taken from all walks of life debated and assessed all of the issues that were expected to come up during the referendum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens%27_Assembly_(Ireland)#Eighth_Amendment

This is the nub of it all though. Would the wee 6 just be integrated into a Dail/Dublin driven UI or do we seriously need to look at a New Ireland and I'd agree that the best way to do that would be a citizens forum or similar to eek that out.

Of course..
There's is little point in asking one to vote for a UI and then being unwilling to let them know what sort of UI you have in mind.
I refuse to commit myself to anything until I know what I am voting for.
SF is calling for UI and want interparty discussions to begin.
So far so good...
But (all?) other parties on the island are reluctant to have such  referendum now as they collectively feel that it would have little chance of success and then there cannot be another referendum for seven years.
I think it's not rocket to suggests that SF need to declare their hand...tell the people what they propose discussing with other parties.  They seem very reluctant to do this and I won't back their call unless I know what I am voting for.