HOW WOULD YOU VOTE IN A BORDER POLL?

[Angelo]

Angelo has consistently asked: what's in it for people under 40 to get a Covid vaccine?

Given that stance, it seems fair to ask of him: what's in it for the people who he so dismissively refers to as "free staters" to vote for Ireland to take in the North?

Why would we? Why should we?

I'm not of that "I'm alright Jack" view on a united Ireland myself, but neither am I an "I'm alright Jack" merchant as regards the Covid vaccine, whereas Angelo is

There's a deep hypocrisy there on Angelo's part

He dismisses societal solidarity as regards the Covid vaccine, yet demands that people in the Republic show solidarity with Northern nationalists in their desire for a united Ireland

That's hypocrisy

I don't demand anything.

The FFGLab century long control of the Free is coming to an end and when that happens the momentum behind a United Ireland grows.

[Angelo]

The UN ranks Ireland second in the world for quality of life

Some "failed state", eh 

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-un-human-development-index-2019-5303638-Dec2020/#:~:text=Switzerland%2C%20Hong%20Kong%2C%20Iceland%2C,the%20highest%20in%20the%20world.

Maybe you should canvas your constituency next time around to see what people think of the state.

[sid waddell]

Angelo has consistently asked: what's in it for people under 40 to get a Covid vaccine?

Given that stance, it seems fair to ask of him: what's in it for the people who he so dismissively refers to as "free staters" to vote for Ireland to take in the North?

Why would we? Why should we?

I'm not of that "I'm alright Jack" view on a united Ireland myself, but neither am I an "I'm alright Jack" merchant as regards the Covid vaccine, whereas Angelo is

There's a deep hypocrisy there on Angelo's part

He dismisses societal solidarity as regards the Covid vaccine, yet demands that people in the Republic show solidarity with Northern nationalists in their desire for a united Ireland

That's hypocrisy

I don't demand anything.

The FFGLab century long control of the Free is coming to an end and when that happens the momentum behind a United Ireland grows.

You didn't address the point

[Angelo]

Angelo has consistently asked: what's in it for people under 40 to get a Covid vaccine?

Given that stance, it seems fair to ask of him: what's in it for the people who he so dismissively refers to as "free staters" to vote for Ireland to take in the North?

Why would we? Why should we?

I'm not of that "I'm alright Jack" view on a united Ireland myself, but neither am I an "I'm alright Jack" merchant as regards the Covid vaccine, whereas Angelo is

There's a deep hypocrisy there on Angelo's part

He dismisses societal solidarity as regards the Covid vaccine, yet demands that people in the Republic show solidarity with Northern nationalists in their desire for a united Ireland

That's hypocrisy

I don't demand anything.

The FFGLab century long control of the Free is coming to an end and when that happens the momentum behind a United Ireland grows.

You didn't address the point

I did.

You said I demanded something.

I do not demand anything.

[sid waddell]

The UN ranks Ireland second in the world for quality of life

Some "failed state", eh 

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-un-human-development-index-2019-5303638-Dec2020/#:~:text=Switzerland%2C%20Hong%20Kong%2C%20Iceland%2C,the%20highest%20in%20the%20world.

Maybe you should canvas your constituency next time around to see what people think of the state.

You didn't address the point

You claim Ireland is a "failed state"

Yet the UN ranks it second in the world for quality of life

If Ireland was a failed state, don't you think the UN would rank it a lot lower?

If Ireland was a failed state, you'd expect it to rank, ooh, maybe 102nd, or 202nd, rather than 2nd?

Wouldn't you?

[five points]

The UN ranks Ireland second in the world for quality of life

Some "failed state", eh 

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-un-human-development-index-2019-5303638-Dec2020/#:~:text=Switzerland%2C%20Hong%20Kong%2C%20Iceland%2C,the%20highest%20in%20the%20world.

That index was heavily skewed by gross national income per capita, which is grossly inflated by the multinationals' leprechaun economics.

[sid waddell]

Angelo has consistently asked: what's in it for people under 40 to get a Covid vaccine?

Given that stance, it seems fair to ask of him: what's in it for the people who he so dismissively refers to as "free staters" to vote for Ireland to take in the North?

Why would we? Why should we?

I'm not of that "I'm alright Jack" view on a united Ireland myself, but neither am I an "I'm alright Jack" merchant as regards the Covid vaccine, whereas Angelo is

There's a deep hypocrisy there on Angelo's part

He dismisses societal solidarity as regards the Covid vaccine, yet demands that people in the Republic show solidarity with Northern nationalists in their desire for a united Ireland

That's hypocrisy

I don't demand anything.

The FFGLab century long control of the Free is coming to an end and when that happens the momentum behind a United Ireland grows.

You didn't address the point

I did.

You said I demanded something.

I do not demand anything.

Ooh, semantics when confronted with a point you can't answer

OK, let's change the wording to satisfy your semantics

Let's say you're encouraging or respectfully advocating that people in the Republic show solidarity with Northern nationalists by voting for a united Ireland in a border poll

That's still hypocrisy compared to your stance on the Covid vaccine

On one issue, you're advocating solidarity - and on the other, you're an I'm alright Jacker

That's deep hypocrisy

[sid waddell]

The UN ranks Ireland second in the world for quality of life

Some "failed state", eh 

https://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-un-human-development-index-2019-5303638-Dec2020/#:~:text=Switzerland%2C%20Hong%20Kong%2C%20Iceland%2C,the%20highest%20in%20the%20world.

That index was heavily skewed by gross national income per capita, which is grossly inflated by the multinationals' leprechaun economics.

It's a quality of life index - the clue is in the name - "Human Development"

It takes into account the whole population and their quality of life and their ability to have quality of life

Are you claiming Ireland is a failed state?

[Angelo]

I'm not advocating solidarity on one hand. People should be conscionable to do what they want but I think FFG are being extremely disingenuous here in their pathetic excuses to not engage in dialogue on the United Ireland debate.

A border poll is going to happen despite the intransigence of FFGLab and DUP/UUP, it's those parties who are trying to fight against the tide. It's to do with the changing of demographics on both sides of the border and both due to the failings of the states on both sides of the border.

You should spend more time on articulating your own views than misrepresenting others.

[five points]

It's a quality of life index - the clue is in the name - "Human Development"

It takes into account the whole population and their quality of life and their ability to have quality of life

Next time, try reading beyond the headline.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/human-development-index-hdi

The health dimension is assessed by life expectancy at birth, the education dimension is measured by mean of years of schooling for adults aged 25 years and more and expected years of schooling for children of school entering age. The standard of living dimension is measured by gross national income per capita. The HDI uses the logarithm of income, to reflect the diminishing importance of income with increasing GNI. The scores for the three HDI dimension indices are then aggregated into a composite index using geometric mean. Refer to Technical notes for more details.

The HDI simplifies and captures only part of what human development entails. It does not reflect on inequalities, poverty, human security, empowerment, etc. The HDRO offers the other composite indices as broader proxy on some of the key issues of human development, inequality, gender disparity and poverty.

Are you claiming Ireland is a failed state?

I didn't make that claim. But it is certainly an underperfomer, lacking a lot of what most other Western European countries take for granted. Most especially the ability to withstand periodic economic downturns without significant social and economic harm.

[sid waddell]

I'm not advocating solidarity on one hand. People should be conscionable to do what they want but I think FFG are being extremely disingenuous here in their pathetic excuses to not engage in dialogue on the United Ireland debate.

A border poll is going to happen despite the intransigence of FFGLab and DUP/UUP, it's those parties who are trying to fight against the tide. It's to do with the changing of demographics on both sides of the border and both due to the failings of the states on both sides of the border.

You should spend more time on articulating your own views than misrepresenting others.

If you weren't advocating solidarity you wouldn't be calling people you think are not sufficiently pro-united Ireland for your liking "pathetic"

Actually, maybe you're right, maybe you're not advocating solidarity at all

Maybe you're actually a DUP plant who is anti-united Ireland and all your bluster here is fiendishly designed to turn people off the idea

That's just a joke by the way, mate

But that's sort of how it comes across because the way you go on there's absolutely no way you'd persuade anybody to vote for a united Ireland and chances are you'd turn quite a few people off the idea

[Rossfan]

SF produce their paper and challenge the rest to follow suit.

Utter nonsense. And what would the rest do if SF did what you suggest? They would attack SF's plan and universally deride them as being trying to be divisive and provocative for even talking about United Ireland. Oh and misrepresent their plan as some sort of a demand for an immediate border

We can't do up a paper because the nasties might give out to us!!
"Nordie" Paranoia gone mad with you..

Let them deride and pick holes etc. Challenge them to come up with a better plan.

I've been giving ye the blueprint here for 10 or maybe 15 years at this stage.

PS sadly the thread is now filled with "You are ignorings...."
Hopefully the sensible posters will continue to engage with each other despite this.

[seafoid]

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/statistics/labour-market-and-social-welfare/annual-survey-hours-and-earnings
"The key points from the Northern Ireland ASHE 2020 show that:

Median gross weekly earnings for full-time employees in April 2020 decreased by 1% from £535 in 2019 to £529 in 2020; the first annual decrease in weekly earnings since 2014 and the largest decrease on record."

https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/earnings/earningsandlabourcosts/

Q3 20 Average weekly earnings EUR 844

That's a big gap.
Shinners who think that the Southern political class is useless don't know much about economics.

One of the biggest challenges would be how to improve productivity in the 6 counties.

[Lar Naparka]

IT seems to me that they are clearly calling for a referendum asap.

They have repeatedly called for one to happen in 5 years. It was part of their manifesto at the last election. All their utterances since have been calls for planning to begin.

I can't recall them inviting any other party to enter into discussions with them- on anything really. I don't expect any other party to produce a roadmap to anywhere if they have no interest in a referendum.

They've been consistently calling for an All-Ireland forum to be put in place. There's no point in them talking to themselves. And as I keep saying, it doesn't matter if FFG have "no interest" in a referendum or not. A referendum is still going to happen despite them. So to refuse to pan ahead for it is shockingly irresponsible. The had a contingency plan in place for Britain leaving the EU, but steadfastly refuse to put on in place for the 6 counties leaving the UK. A dereliction of duty, given the absolute inevitability of a poll.

THe jibes that any Irish person is a West Brit if they won't vote for UI is ludicrous, stuff ypu'd get on a school playground.
It's like asking people to buy a pig in a poke. I mean who' commit himself to anything if he doesn't know what he is voting for?

And yet you defend those who refuse to engage in a discussion about what they might be voting for. Besides, I could get into a rant about why many in the north feel disgusted about anyone in the south even having to think about whether they want the reunification and independence of their own country; particularly against the backdrop of how many in the south treated the norh post-partition, and the feeling that there was a dishonorable wrong there that ought to be righted, but I'll leave that to another day.

You misuynderstand me completely.
In fact, I am calling for the exact pposite.
I do not think any sane person would back SF's call for a referendum- without question. IU have no doubt that people in the South would vote Yes in overwhelming numbers if the felt they were voting for a UI that stood a reasonable chance of success.
I'd lke a full and frank discussion of the pro and cons of wehat I would be voting for and I expect most people would feel the same way, north or south.
SF are the only party actually canvassing for a referendumso SF are the only party that has to put its cards on the table and declare what they want people to vot for.
Other parties, north and south, have made it clear that they have on interest in a border polll at the moment so why shoulld any of themdeclare their positioon on something they have no interest in and they feel is not likely to happen?

[sid waddell]

It's a quality of life index - the clue is in the name - "Human Development"

It takes into account the whole population and their quality of life and their ability to have quality of life

Next time, try reading beyond the headline.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/human-development-index-hdi

The health dimension is assessed by life expectancy at birth, the education dimension is measured by mean of years of schooling for adults aged 25 years and more and expected years of schooling for children of school entering age. The standard of living dimension is measured by gross national income per capita. The HDI uses the logarithm of income, to reflect the diminishing importance of income with increasing GNI. The scores for the three HDI dimension indices are then aggregated into a composite index using geometric mean. Refer to Technical notes for more details.

The HDI simplifies and captures only part of what human development entails. It does not reflect on inequalities, poverty, human security, empowerment, etc. The HDRO offers the other composite indices as broader proxy on some of the key issues of human development, inequality, gender disparity and poverty.

Are you claiming Ireland is a failed state?

I didn't make that claim. But it is certainly an underperfomer, lacking a lot of what most other Western European countries take for granted. Most especially the ability to withstand periodic economic downturns without significant social and economic harm.

Oh I did read beyond the headline

Literally nobody says Ireland is remotely near being perfect or anything like it but we are demonstrably a very successful state and one of the best places in the world to live

If Ireland is ranking second in the UN HDI, even the most miserable, cynical curmudgeon would have to admit we're doing something right

Actually, they probably wouldn't

The HDI was created to emphasize that people and their capabilities should be the ultimate criteria for assessing the development of a country, not economic growth alone. The HDI can also be used to question national policy choices, asking how two countries with the same level of GNI per capita can end up with different human development outcomes. These contrasts can stimulate debate about government policy priorities.
The Human Development Index (HDI) is a summary measure of average achievement in key dimensions of human development: a long and healthy life, being knowledgeable and have a decent standard of living. The HDI is the geometric mean of normalized indices for each of the three dimensions.

The health dimension is assessed by life expectancy at birth, the education dimension is measured by mean of years of schooling for adults aged 25 years and more and expected years of schooling for children of school entering age. The standard of living dimension is measured by gross national income per capita. The HDI uses the logarithm of income, to reflect the diminishing importance of income with increasing GNI. The scores for the three HDI dimension indices are then aggregated into a composite index using geometric mean.