HOW WOULD YOU VOTE IN A BORDER POLL?

[Itchy]

Any people look to have a United Ireland poll that will offer them some new Ireland?

May lock this thread and come back in 50 years and see if there anything doing cause it not happening anytime soon.

People are not asking for a poll to happen tomorrow. They are looking for the planning for a poll to start today. You can rest assured though, with the demographic and political trends going the way they are, there will be a poll before 50 years are up.

Within 5 years I'd say when the realities of Brexit start to kick home and the 6 counties are the odd ones out.

[Louther]

Any people look to have a United Ireland poll that will offer them some new Ireland?

May lock this thread and come back in 50 years and see if there anything doing cause it not happening anytime soon.

People are not asking for a poll to happen tomorrow. They are looking for the planning for a poll to start today. You can rest assured though, with the demographic and political trends going the way they are, there will be a poll before 50 years are up.

On the planning, you will need all communities represented and engaged for the planning. If it's a nationalist plan, it will never be accepted. Or if it's one sided it only representing that one side regardless of their intentions.

There is no chance you can even start the planning in current political climate and is that going to change in a generation even?

[sid waddell]

The Shinners here need to get on message

Some of them are going on about planning

Yet others are talking about "50% +1 is a united Ireland - end of" - or words to this effect

If the latter is true, then there's no planning needed, all that's needed is a referendum, which doesn't take any planning at all to hold, NI is well used to holding elections

[Snapchap]

Any people look to have a United Ireland poll that will offer them some new Ireland?

May lock this thread and come back in 50 years and see if there anything doing cause it not happening anytime soon.

People are not asking for a poll to happen tomorrow. They are looking for the planning for a poll to start today. You can rest assured though, with the demographic and political trends going the way they are, there will be a poll before 50 years are up.

On the planning, you will need all communities represented and engaged for the planning. If it's a nationalist plan, it will never be accepted. Or if it's one sided it only representing that one side regardless of their intentions.

There is no chance you can even start the planning in current political climate and is that going to change in a generation even?

Of course you can start the planning. Those who always say we can't talk about a border poll because there is no plan are almost always the first to shoot down any talk of planning. Funny that.

If you're waiting on unionism to engage in discussion about reunification, then you'll wait from now until the end of time. What CAN be done now, is to have any and all stakeholders who are willing to discuss it, draw up the plan and present it to unionism in the hope some will consider it. Most wont and that's fair enough. They are unionists. It's the middle ground who will decide a future poll and they will only be won over by a plan that they feel is inclusive of unionism.

The bottom line is that demographics alone demonstrate that a border poll will happen in the relatively near future. Do you suggest going into it without a plan? I wouldn't.

[sid waddell]

You can't say a vote of 50% +1 = united Ireland - end of - and simultaneously talk about planning

The two are contradictory

"Planning" would effectively mean you would have to have a defined treaty spelling out the exact terms of a united Ireland ready to go in the event of a Yes vote - and that's against the Good Friday Agreement

Isn't it?

[Applesisapples]

There needs to be a plan, or better still a cross-party and cross-community agreement, of what the United Ireland would look like - how it would work in terms of elections, subventions, amalgamating public service, flags, anthems, citizenship etc
There seems to be an attitude from the most fortright people here that we just have a vote, and if the result is 50%+1 then that's everything decided and we wake up the next day in the new Ireland. That's deluded thinking.
SF and it's supporters are the ones shouting about this and ysing terms like "west brit" and "not a real irishman" for anyone who asks the inevitable questions and doesn't give an unequivocal yes.
These people would want to grow up and come out of their bubble - SF won't and can't deliver a UI on their own.

Of course we need a plan. That's what SF have been pressing the government to get the finger out on for quite some time.

As for the 50%+1 bit. You might not like it, but if a border poll is called and the result is 50.1% in favoir of unity, then it WILL be unity. That isn't delusion. It's what's written in the GFA. Just because you would like to see a bigger majority doesnt mean a bigger majority is required. Are you suggesting a greater majority should be required? And if so, how much greater?

50  plus 1% is not suitable for constitutional issues given the fluid nature of public opinion.  Just look.at Brexit.

Northern Ireland is hopelessly polarised and 50 plus 1% would be really f**king stupid. The Unionists could organise a posse of Alliance voters to win 50 plus 1% round 2

Notwithstanding my reservations stated elsewhere, a 50+1% will not happen, certainly not in the way you portray. In all likelihood a postive vote will only start a process if it is that close. I would hope that there is a sizeable majority apparent before the vote.

[Applesisapples]

The Shinners here need to get on message

Some of them are going on about planning

Yet others are talking about "50% +1 is a united Ireland - end of" - or words to this effect

If the latter is true, then there's no planning needed, all that's needed is a referendum, which doesn't take any planning at all to hold, NI is well used to holding elections

To be fair these are personal opinions. SF position as a party seems to be about preparation. I don't take seriously their calls for a vote and see it as a tactic.

[Louther]

There absolutely needs to be a plan/roadmap. It's a must and a given for all sides, 6 and 26, to consider. If anything is learned from Brexit, it's that a vote without a roadmap, only leads to disaster.

What you are saying is fine and on paper and in normal world would make perfect logic and sense. But apply that to NI where an Irish Language Act brings down the local administration for 2 years and it doesn't even affect the day to day life of vast majority of residents.

In my eyes anything done without strong cross community participation won't be worth the paper it written on and will be thrown out without a thought.

That may be wrong in many eyes but those in power in one side will only see it this way. Do we have any strong leaders who will make that move to start the discussion? I can't see it at present.

[johnnycool]

You can't say a vote of 50% +1 = united Ireland - end of - and simultaneously talk about planning

The two are contradictory

"Planning" would effectively mean you would have to have a defined treaty spelling out the exact terms of a united Ireland ready to go in the event of a Yes vote - and that's against the Good Friday Agreement

Isn't it?

What?

To learn the lessons from Brexit, it's not that it won by a simple majority was the issue. It was the people had differing opinions on what post Brexit UK would look like and ultimately people voted for a ideal rather than a reality.

Before a UI referendum should happen the planning phase needs to happen as to what form that UI would take. How would health, education, elections, governance be impacted and what is the future state. So on and so forth

It isn't rocket science nor contradictory.

[imtommygunn]

The lessons that need to be learned are probably more from the failings on the scottish independence voted. They failed on logistical issues like currency etc and that finer grained stuff needs detailed. They also failed due to some empty promises and lies from the tories so that lesson needs to be learned from too but perhaps more from the electorate than the parties.

[Lar Naparka]

Just a point of reference: outside of London, ALL statistical regions of the UK, with the exception of two, carry an annual fiscal deficit. NI has been doing so annually since 1966.

I don't think any right-minded Republican is proposing unification to take place overnight, but Lar does make a good point that SF need to provide a detailed plan of how exactly it will take place. Not some 30 page summary of economic aspirations. Quite why he has singled SF out though I am not sure - there are other pro-unity parties that surely should have their skates on?

The SNP commissioned a 650 page paper on "Scotland's Future", perhaps SF are waiting until they are in government north and south before replicating something similar? Who knows. Perhaps a cross-party initiative could be formed to examine the real possibility of getting the ball rolling? We cant pussyfoot around Unionists forever.

I realise that every part of the UK, London excepted, needs a financial bail out to stay solvent but that's not an issue  in the present context. In the event of a unity referendum being carried, the 6 counties will leave the Union and the British taxpayer will no longer boe obliged to bail them (it?) out year after year.
My esteemed opponent claims that Norn Iron only get £5 bn of this bailout but it's what it costs the British taxpayer that's at  issue here. My gripe is that SF are conspicuously silent on this matter. As you say, the SNP in similar circumstances commissioned a lengthy report to cover this and every other issue that would arise if the Scottish referendum was carried.
Yer man claims that there is plenty of evidence "out there" and tells me to look for it myself as it's no concern of his.
I have looked for it  and have found out that it isn't there.
I'd have no problem voting for unity if I know in advance what I am voting for-- and agree with it. SF won't commit itself to anything or at least haven't done so to date.
Why did I single out SF ?
Because, as far as I know, SF is the only party pressing for a referendum.

[Lar Naparka]

Any people look to have a United Ireland poll that will offer them some new Ireland?

May lock this thread and come back in 50 years and see if there anything doing cause it not happening anytime soon.

People are not asking for a poll to happen tomorrow. They are looking for the planning for a poll to start today. You can rest assured though, with the demographic and political trends going the way they are, there will be a poll before 50 years are up.

On the planning, you will need all communities represented and engaged for the planning. If it's a nationalist plan, it will never be accepted. Or if it's one sided it only representing that one side regardless of their intentions.

There is no chance you can even start the planning in current political climate and is that going to change in a generation even?

Of course you can start the planning. Those who always say we can't talk about a border poll because there is no plan are almost always the first to shoot down any talk of planning. Funny that.

If you're waiting on unionism to engage in discussion about reunification, then you'll wait from now until the end of time. What CAN be done now, is to have any and all stakeholders who are willing to discuss it, draw up the plan and present it to unionism in the hope some will consider it. Most wont and that's fair enough. They are unionists. It's the middle ground who will decide a future poll and they will only be won over by a plan that they feel is inclusive of unionism.

The bottom line is that demographics alone demonstrate that a border poll will happen in the relatively near future. Do you suggest going into it without a plan? I wouldn't.

I agree with 100% you. But SF is the only party campaigning for a referendum and, therefore
is the only party that needs to present their roadmap.

[Snapchap]

There absolutely needs to be a plan/roadmap. It's a must and a given for all sides, 6 and 26, to consider. If anything is learned from Brexit, it's that a vote without a roadmap, only leads to disaster.

100%

What you are saying is fine and on paper and in normal world would make perfect logic and sense. But apply that to NI where an Irish Language Act brings down the local administration for 2 years and it doesn't even affect the day to day life of vast majority of residents.

In my eyes anything done without strong cross community participation won't be worth the paper it written on and will be thrown out without a thought.

That may be wrong in many eyes but those in power in one side will only see it this way. Do we have any strong leaders who will make that move to start the discussion? I can't see it at present.

But suggesting that a plan can't be suitable, or even made, unless it had cross-community support is just absolute Narnia stuff which only serves to hold the idea of a democratic choice to ransom. Unionism is never going to sit down an help devise a plan to bring them out of the uk and to suggest we can't start planning until they do is either totally naive or else a deliberate excuse to avoid ever, ever planning for unity.

A border poll is going to happen regardless, so if you are waiting to start the planning until unionism wants to get involved in making it, then that just won't happen, and you'll be facing into a Brexit style poll where people don't know what they are voting for. That can't happen. Demographics dictate that the poll will happen relatively soon regardless, so the planning has to start now regardless, and anyone and everyone who wants to be involved should get involved.

[Armagh18]

I cannot believe that there are so called Irish people on a GAA forum who are against Irish Unity. Hang your heads in shame. I get that there are loads of issues to sort out, no one is claiming it will be a straightforward process. But to actively be against unity is frankly disgusting.

[johnnycool]

I cannot believe that there are so called Irish people on a GAA forum who are against Irish Unity. Hang your heads in shame. I get that there are loads of issues to sort out, no one is claiming it will be a straightforward process. But to actively be against unity is frankly disgusting.

Lets win them over rather than berate them.