HOW WOULD YOU VOTE IN A BORDER POLL?

Started by RedHand88, March 20, 2021, 02:56:58 PM

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Would you back unity if a border poll was held tomorrow?

Yes (Northerner)
No (Northerner)
Yes (Southener)
No (Southener)

GiveItToTheShooters

Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 21, 2021, 03:14:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 01:39:36 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 21, 2021, 07:19:00 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 02:10:06 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 20, 2021, 09:01:07 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 20, 2021, 06:33:27 PM
Said it before and will say it again.
Any Irish person that votes against unity is an embarrassment to their country and an embarrassment as a person.
I think it's fair tos ay that a huge majority down south are in favour of a UI but fully realise that a lot of hard bargaining is needed before we can entertain any hopes of coming up with an arrangements,  federal states or otherwise, that would have any chance of success.
Putting a UI together is one thing but coming up with a solution that works is going to be far harder- if unity ever comes to pass.
No "hard bargaining" needs to be done.
We're not asking you for a favour so stop letting on that northerners need to grovel to the southerners as if you're gonna bail us out or something. The irony in that too though eh.
If and when it comes down to putting an X in the box, if any Irish person votes against unity they are an embarrassment.
To whom? I can't see many southerners  who see the essence of Irishness being an aspiration for unity with no strings whatever attached. They would like to be allowed the right to have some say in their own future.
To their country and to themselves, as I already said in my last post.
The fact you go on to say that they may need persuaded says it all, it reinforces my point.
"I'll only vote for a UI if it doesn't cost me any money". Plastic paddies. They'd be the biggest waste of spaces of the lot.
G'man, you're in flying form- musta been on the  Lurgan champagne last night!
I'm afraid that there's a chance that you might actually be serious.
I will decide if something embarrasses me or not.
Dunno how you think people down south won't vote for UI if it's going to cost them money- all available evidence points the other way.
Back in the 90s, when the GFA negotiations were at a critical stage, the south was asked to amend its constitution to remove articles that were offensive to Unionists in general. Both articles were rescinded by massive majorities. By and large, people down here are very much aware of what is happening in the North and will do whatever can be done to bring about reconciliation between the warring factions in the god-forsaken corner of the island.
Of course, a UI will cost us money and a lot more besides but it's not up to us to make the first move.
Seems to me that all SF is doing is hyping up sectarian tensions for reasons I don't understand.
Has Mary Lou and co. come up with what should be done in the event of a UI vote being in their favour in NI? Any blueprint for the shape a UI should take?
You show me SF's proposal for their vision of a UI and I will rest my case.
Any attempt to form a sectarian state will lead to more violence and destruction and will knock the arse out of any chances of making any form of UI work. That's delusion on a grand scale.
I'd have no problems sharing Ireland with the vast majority from both sides of the community up north. But we have enough problems of our own without importing yours.
Of course I'm serious.
You can decide whatever you want, but you'll still be an embarrassment and waste of space if you vote to keep British rule in Ireland.
All available evidence points the other way but you go on to say it will cost you money and more? Make your mind up.
You are not in a position to be laying down the conditions or the requirements, nor will you be "importing" us, get off your high partitionist horse. It's funny you think that. Maybe you shouldn't have sold the north up the river back in the day.
There is no attempt to form a sectarian statelet, in fact that is what we're trying to move away from, which is what SF have been saying all along. But it's not about SF.

Rossfan

Now Lairín that's you tould. ;D
Only extremist Nordie Nationalists count.
The other 6.3 million of us won't matter in this new Ireland.
Sounds like an Irish version of Polpotism.
Pólpota?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Angelo

#62
The mindset of some free staters is stuck in the 1950s.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Snapchap

Rossfan gets very tetchy when a mirror gets held up to the rampant partionism in the south.

seafoid

NI productivity is lower than RoI

Plus the Loyalist work culture needs to be reengineered

"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

bennydorano

Just came across this on tiktok, there are about 5 or 6 videos. On how NI is better off in the UK, and some economic 'facts'.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeA9gF5D/

seafoid

Quote from: bennydorano on March 21, 2021, 08:07:56 PM
Just came across this on tiktok, there are about 5 or 6 videos. On how NI is better off in the UK, and some economic 'facts'.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeA9gF5D/
The UK hasn't been good for NI for at least 2 generations. Thatcherism is London centric and disadvantages the regions including NI
Brexit is the UK shooting itself in the foot . No benefit to NI.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Kidder81

Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2021, 08:20:25 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on March 21, 2021, 08:07:56 PM
Just came across this on tiktok, there are about 5 or 6 videos. On how NI is better off in the UK, and some economic 'facts'.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMeA9gF5D/
The UK hasn't been good for NI for at least 2 generations. Thatcherism is London centric and disadvantages the regions including NI
Brexit is the UK shooting itself in the foot . No benefit to NI.

When it comes to public spending and austerity, parts of the UK have suffered a lot more gravely than the 6 counties

Lar Naparka

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 06:49:32 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 21, 2021, 03:14:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 01:39:36 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 21, 2021, 07:19:00 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 02:10:06 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 20, 2021, 09:01:07 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 20, 2021, 06:33:27 PM
Said it before and will say it again.
Any Irish person that votes against unity is an embarrassment to their country and an embarrassment as a person.
I think it's fair tos ay that a huge majority down south are in favour of a UI but fully realise that a lot of hard bargaining is needed before we can entertain any hopes of coming up with an arrangements,  federal states or otherwise, that would have any chance of success.
Putting a UI together is one thing but coming up with a solution that works is going to be far harder- if unity ever comes to pass.
No "hard bargaining" needs to be done.
We're not asking you for a favour so stop letting on that northerners need to grovel to the southerners as if you're gonna bail us out or something. The irony in that too though eh.
If and when it comes down to putting an X in the box, if any Irish person votes against unity they are an embarrassment.
To whom? I can't see many southerners  who see the essence of Irishness being an aspiration for unity with no strings whatever attached. They would like to be allowed the right to have some say in their own future.
To their country and to themselves, as I already said in my last post.
The fact you go on to say that they may need persuaded says it all, it reinforces my point.
"I'll only vote for a UI if it doesn't cost me any money". Plastic paddies. They'd be the biggest waste of spaces of the lot.
G'man, you're in flying form- musta been on the  Lurgan champagne last night!
I'm afraid that there's a chance that you might actually be serious.
I will decide if something embarrasses me or not.
Dunno how you think people down south won't vote for UI if it's going to cost them money- all available evidence points the other way.
Back in the 90s, when the GFA negotiations were at a critical stage, the south was asked to amend its constitution to remove articles that were offensive to Unionists in general. Both articles were rescinded by massive majorities. By and large, people down here are very much aware of what is happening in the North and will do whatever can be done to bring about reconciliation between the warring factions in the god-forsaken corner of the island.
Of course, a UI will cost us money and a lot more besides but it's not up to us to make the first move.
Seems to me that all SF is doing is hyping up sectarian tensions for reasons I don't understand.
Has Mary Lou and co. come up with what should be done in the event of a UI vote being in their favour in NI? Any blueprint for the shape a UI should take?
You show me SF's proposal for their vision of a UI and I will rest my case.
Any attempt to form a sectarian state will lead to more violence and destruction and will knock the arse out of any chances of making any form of UI work. That's delusion on a grand scale.
I'd have no problems sharing Ireland with the vast majority from both sides of the community up north. But we have enough problems of our own without importing yours.
Of course I'm serious.
You can decide whatever you want, but you'll still be an embarrassment and waste of space if you vote to keep British rule in Ireland.
All available evidence points the other way but you go on to say it will cost you money and more? Make your mind up.
You are not in a position to be laying down the conditions or the requirements, nor will you be "importing" us, get off your high partitionist horse. It's funny you think that. Maybe you shouldn't have sold the north up the river back in the day.
There is no attempt to form a sectarian statelet, in fact that is what we're trying to move away from, which is what SF have been saying all along. But it's not about SF.
I never said implied or otherwise indicated that I want to keep British rule in Ireland- if you don't agree please point  out to me where and when I said do.
What available evidence have you got that a UI won't cost us money? At the moment you are costing the British taxpayer the not inconsiderable sum of £15bn annually to keep your "failed statelet" ticking over.
Who is going to pick up your tabs when the British finally get this particular monkey off their backs. I never said we would be "importing" you or anything like it. You have an elevated sense of your own importance I'm afraid.
If you want a United Ireland, you'd better be prepared to muck in like everyone else and work to make it happen. also would like to see a unified Ireland, where all shades of political and religious beliefs are accommodated and no one gets preferential treatment.
Now, I might as well be trying to play handball against a haystack rather than attempting to have a logical exchange with you. You're entitled to your own political beliefs but so am I and I don't share yours. C'est la vie, I guess.
However, I have one question you can answer without compromise of any sort. Have SF given any thought to what the consequences may be if their call for a UI is successful? Have they a stated policy on what should happen next? Can you tell me where and when Mary Lou outlined their position on the matter or if it is a case of making it up as you go along, hoping everything will work out on the day?
I can't take your call for a UI seriously if you can't be arsed to consider what the consequences might be if your wish is granted.
BTW, you have never even referred to the possibility that over a million Unionists might not agree with you?
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Lar Naparka

I think it might be helpful to consider this link on the cost to the British taxpayer to keep Norn Iron solvent. No wonder the Brits want to offload the whole goddamn lot of ye? :D
Okay the link is somewhat outdated. (Published in 2018 but the figures are substantial by any standards.
Northern Ireland fiscal deficit
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Northern Ireland fiscal deficit from 1999 to 2018
Northern Ireland fiscal deficit (also known as a subvention[1] or subsidy[2]) is the amount by which the public expenditure in Northern Ireland exceeds the tax revenue collected in Northern Ireland. The deficit typically runs at a rate of £10 billion per annum which is more than one third of Northern Ireland's annual fiscal budget. The size of the deficit has been seen by some commentators as a possible impediment to the future reunification of Ireland.

Only possible, sez he?? ;D ;D
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

sid waddell

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 06:49:32 PM

There is no attempt to form a sectarian statelet, in fact that is what we're trying to move away from, which is what SF have been saying all along. But it's not about SF.

You say you don't want a sectarian statelet and yet you say the following?

How can the prospective unified Irish state you want not be sectarian if you're calling for anybody who votes against unification to be shot for being a "West Brit"?

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 06:49:32 PM

Of course I'm serious.
You can decide whatever you want, but you'll still be an embarrassment and waste of space if you vote to keep British rule in Ireland.


Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 02:10:06 AM

If and when it comes down to putting an X in the box, if any Irish person votes against unity they are an embarrassment.

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 02:10:59 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 20, 2021, 11:41:53 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 20, 2021, 06:33:27 PM
Said it before and will say it again.
Any Irish person that votes against unity is an embarrassment to their country and an embarrassment as a person.
That should be the campaign slogan

Maybe throw in "if you don't vote Yes you're a West Brit **** who should be shot" as well

Marketing material like that will be sure to win over the middle ground
Good man, Sid.
I agree.

GiveItToTheShooters

Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 21, 2021, 08:41:44 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 06:49:32 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 21, 2021, 03:14:49 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 01:39:36 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 21, 2021, 07:19:00 AM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 02:10:06 AM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on March 20, 2021, 09:01:07 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 20, 2021, 06:33:27 PM
Said it before and will say it again.
Any Irish person that votes against unity is an embarrassment to their country and an embarrassment as a person.
I think it's fair tos ay that a huge majority down south are in favour of a UI but fully realise that a lot of hard bargaining is needed before we can entertain any hopes of coming up with an arrangements,  federal states or otherwise, that would have any chance of success.
Putting a UI together is one thing but coming up with a solution that works is going to be far harder- if unity ever comes to pass.
No "hard bargaining" needs to be done.
We're not asking you for a favour so stop letting on that northerners need to grovel to the southerners as if you're gonna bail us out or something. The irony in that too though eh.
If and when it comes down to putting an X in the box, if any Irish person votes against unity they are an embarrassment.
To whom? I can't see many southerners  who see the essence of Irishness being an aspiration for unity with no strings whatever attached. They would like to be allowed the right to have some say in their own future.
To their country and to themselves, as I already said in my last post.
The fact you go on to say that they may need persuaded says it all, it reinforces my point.
"I'll only vote for a UI if it doesn't cost me any money". Plastic paddies. They'd be the biggest waste of spaces of the lot.
G'man, you're in flying form- musta been on the  Lurgan champagne last night!
I'm afraid that there's a chance that you might actually be serious.
I will decide if something embarrasses me or not.
Dunno how you think people down south won't vote for UI if it's going to cost them money- all available evidence points the other way.
Back in the 90s, when the GFA negotiations were at a critical stage, the south was asked to amend its constitution to remove articles that were offensive to Unionists in general. Both articles were rescinded by massive majorities. By and large, people down here are very much aware of what is happening in the North and will do whatever can be done to bring about reconciliation between the warring factions in the god-forsaken corner of the island.
Of course, a UI will cost us money and a lot more besides but it's not up to us to make the first move.
Seems to me that all SF is doing is hyping up sectarian tensions for reasons I don't understand.
Has Mary Lou and co. come up with what should be done in the event of a UI vote being in their favour in NI? Any blueprint for the shape a UI should take?
You show me SF's proposal for their vision of a UI and I will rest my case.
Any attempt to form a sectarian state will lead to more violence and destruction and will knock the arse out of any chances of making any form of UI work. That's delusion on a grand scale.
I'd have no problems sharing Ireland with the vast majority from both sides of the community up north. But we have enough problems of our own without importing yours.
Of course I'm serious.
You can decide whatever you want, but you'll still be an embarrassment and waste of space if you vote to keep British rule in Ireland.
All available evidence points the other way but you go on to say it will cost you money and more? Make your mind up.
You are not in a position to be laying down the conditions or the requirements, nor will you be "importing" us, get off your high partitionist horse. It's funny you think that. Maybe you shouldn't have sold the north up the river back in the day.
There is no attempt to form a sectarian statelet, in fact that is what we're trying to move away from, which is what SF have been saying all along. But it's not about SF.
I never said implied or otherwise indicated that I want to keep British rule in Ireland- if you don't agree please point  out to me where and when I said do.
What available evidence have you got that a UI won't cost us money? At the moment you are costing the British taxpayer the not inconsiderable sum of £15bn annually to keep your "failed statelet" ticking over.
Who is going to pick up your tabs when the British finally get this particular monkey off their backs. I never said we would be "importing" you or anything like it. You have an elevated sense of your own importance I'm afraid.
If you want a United Ireland, you'd better be prepared to muck in like everyone else and work to make it happen. also would like to see a unified Ireland, where all shades of political and religious beliefs are accommodated and no one gets preferential treatment.
Now, I might as well be trying to play handball against a haystack rather than attempting to have a logical exchange with you. You're entitled to your own political beliefs but so am I and I don't share yours. C'est la vie, I guess.
However, I have one question you can answer without compromise of any sort. Have SF given any thought to what the consequences may be if their call for a UI is successful? Have they a stated policy on what should happen next? Can you tell me where and when Mary Lou outlined their position on the matter or if it is a case of making it up as you go along, hoping everything will work out on the day?
I can't take your call for a UI seriously if you can't be arsed to consider what the consequences might be if your wish is granted.
BTW, you have never even referred to the possibility that over a million Unionists might not agree with you?
Your attempt to ask a tirade of random questions is a poor attempt to cover your tracks here.
First of all, let's be clear that I didn't say you want to keep British rule in Ireland, but you would be a waste of space and an embarrassment to the country if you did vote for that.
And judging by your plastic paddy, depending-on x y z viewpoints you're putting across, I wouldn't be surprised if you did.
You literally did say you would be importing us, I have bolded that to prove it. Deary me, you're losing the run of yourself.
Also, the 15bn sum you came up with couldn't be further from the truth. It's about 1/5 of that.
You disagree with my political view, so you don't want a United ireland then I take it.

GiveItToTheShooters

Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 06:49:32 PM

There is no attempt to form a sectarian statelet, in fact that is what we're trying to move away from, which is what SF have been saying all along. But it's not about SF.

You say you don't want a sectarian statelet and yet you say the following?

How can the prospective unified Irish state you want not be sectarian if you're calling for anybody who votes against unification to be shot for being a "West Brit"?

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 06:49:32 PM

Of course I'm serious.
You can decide whatever you want, but you'll still be an embarrassment and waste of space if you vote to keep British rule in Ireland.


Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 02:10:06 AM

If and when it comes down to putting an X in the box, if any Irish person votes against unity they are an embarrassment.

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 02:10:59 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 20, 2021, 11:41:53 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 20, 2021, 06:33:27 PM
Said it before and will say it again.
Any Irish person that votes against unity is an embarrassment to their country and an embarrassment as a person.
That should be the campaign slogan

Maybe throw in "if you don't vote Yes you're a West Brit **** who should be shot" as well

Marketing material like that will be sure to win over the middle ground
Good man, Sid.
I agree.
I note your lack of ability to detect sarcasm. I wouldn't go as far as having them shot, but they'd be a waste of space and a shame to their country.

dublin7

If a border poll was passedd has anyone in SF considered what effect out will have on Unionists? Do you care?

They will no longer be a part of the UK so I doubt most will be happy with that. Has any policies been prepared to subsidise the costs of them relocation to the UK for example or are they expected to just accept it and deal with it. That's just a recipe for disaster and reappearance of the paramilitary terrorist organizations

sid waddell

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 09:33:52 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 21, 2021, 09:00:46 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 06:49:32 PM

There is no attempt to form a sectarian statelet, in fact that is what we're trying to move away from, which is what SF have been saying all along. But it's not about SF.

You say you don't want a sectarian statelet and yet you say the following?

How can the prospective unified Irish state you want not be sectarian if you're calling for anybody who votes against unification to be shot for being a "West Brit"?

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 06:49:32 PM

Of course I'm serious.
You can decide whatever you want, but you'll still be an embarrassment and waste of space if you vote to keep British rule in Ireland.


Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 02:10:06 AM

If and when it comes down to putting an X in the box, if any Irish person votes against unity they are an embarrassment.

Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 21, 2021, 02:10:59 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on March 20, 2021, 11:41:53 PM
Quote from: GiveItToTheShooters on March 20, 2021, 06:33:27 PM
Said it before and will say it again.
Any Irish person that votes against unity is an embarrassment to their country and an embarrassment as a person.
That should be the campaign slogan

Maybe throw in "if you don't vote Yes you're a West Brit **** who should be shot" as well

Marketing material like that will be sure to win over the middle ground
Good man, Sid.
I agree.
I note your lack of ability to detect sarcasm. I wouldn't go as far as having them shot, but they'd be a waste of space and a shame to their country.
I'm very good at detecting sarcasm and it didn't seem very sarcastic to me - it seemed half in jest, whole in earnest - especially given your other comments that I quote - which strongly imply that your preferred version of a united Ireland would not be based on parity of esteem but on vilification of those who do not subscribe to a stifling, uber-nationalistic official culture as dictated by Sinn Fein