Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66

[blewuporstuffed]

Irony and amputated history
by Jude Collins on March 22, 2017

Irony abounded yesterday.  Enda Kenny spoke of Martin McGuinness's 'terrorist past'  while standing in front of a huge portrait of Michael Collins which decorates his office. BBC and RTÉ reporters stressed the need to see Martin McGuinness 'in the round' –  that is, besides being a peacemaker who worked tirelessly for reconciliation, he was responsible for so many deaths. To drive home the second feature of McGuinness, they had moving testimony from those whose parents or spouses had been killed by the IRA and who blamed Martin McGuinness for this. And yes, the broadcasting outlets did stress how much Martin McGuinness had given of himself to reach out to unionism. They forgot to add how little response he got from unionist politicians.

Or at least how little response he got while he lived.  Yesterday,  both Peter Robinson and David Trimble released their salute to McGuinness, and they both spoke with generosity and warmth about his achievements. And the irony? They waited until he was dead. Had they issued similar statements when he was alive, when he was making effort after effort to bridge the gulf between republicanism/nationalism and unionism, such interventions could have made all the difference. Sinn Féin would have found it harder to speak of disrespect when two former First Ministers spoke of the Sinn Féin leader with such unequivocal approval.  But they didn't. They waited until it would have the least impact.

Perhaps most ironic of all,  there was little or no stress placed on what should have been an obvious question: what motivated Martin McGuinness and thousands like him to resort to violence? Was he programmed that way? Were all those IRA men and women motivated by blood-lust and hatred,  a blood-lust and hatred that suddenly boiled over for no reason in the early 1970s and continued for the next two decades, until they they suddenly decided they didn't want to hate and spill blood any more?

It can't be stressed often enough: people like McGuinness joined the IRA knowing that their chances of being killed or imprisoned were very high. And yet they did it. Such a decision must have been motivated by something. Fifty years of unionist misrule? Attacks by the RUC and B Specials on civil rights marchers?  The beating to death by the RUC of Catholic man Sammy Devenney, in his own home, in front of his children, because he had dared to participate in a civil rights march?

We could go on and on listing motivation points.  As some have quite rightly pointed out, not everyone took a violent path like Martin McGuinness. John Hume didn't, and thousands of  his followers didn't. But then if you look at the composition of the SDLP, while far from exclusively middle-class, it had a great deal more middle-class members than Sinn Féin, just as the IRA had a lot more working-class members than middle-class. Catholic working-class areas were on the receiving end of everything that was detestable in the Orange state, including unlawful killing. Little wonder, then, as Pearse Doherty said on radio yesterday, that so many of them decided, in Martin McGuinness's words, to "fight back".  Doherty also added that he hoped that if he had been in the same position as Martin McGuinness at that time, he too would have "fought back". As a devout coward,  it's obvious  to me that fighting back took real courage. We can feel fairly safe in suggesting that not  all decisions to follow the peaceful path were based on morality.

Finally,  tribute should be paid to Mary Lou McDonald. Among all the verbiage and photographs of McGuinness with that pistol, among all the talk of McGuinness having 'two lives', the IRA life and the political life,  the Sinn Féin vice-president suggested that people should stop marvelling at the change which occurred in Martin McGuinness in the mid-1990s.  Far from being unique, she said, Irish history is replete with men who followed the same path as McGuinness. How a state which had Eamon de Valera as its Taoiseach and President, had Sean Lemass as its Taoiseach, had Frank Aitken as its Minister of External Affairs, people like Dan Breen, Sean MacBride, Richard Mulcahy, Cathal Brugha – how can such a state speak of the 'contradictions' in Martin McGuinness's life?

Enough with the faux bewilderment that Martin McGuinness had a Damascene conversion to politics. Enough with the partial history of our country.

[AhNowRef]

It is extremely sickening to hear the likes of that horrible aul bitter west brit Ruth Dudley Edwards on Newsnight last night and on Nolan this morning blatantly denying that Catholics were even remotely oppressed or terrorised in the old Stormont or indeed during the troubles ...  She is a unionist and continuously spouts the usual lies that the British & Unionists were whiter than white and it was all the nationalists/Catholics fault...

One of my earliest memories was being a very young child and being woken up by a British Soldier standing there with a rifle in his hand ... I come from a large Catholic family, who were NEVER involved in anything, but because we were a large Catholic family we were fair game to be raided on several occasions .. and we were .. 3 in my memory .. Lets just say it was never a pleasant experience..

And as for Tebit, well he's really not worth thinking about as he will continue to stew in his own bile .. for years to come hopefully..

But youse lads are right, only for having parents that shepherded you away from getting involved there would have been a lot more people involved..  but its very easy to see how many people did..

[maddog]

Irony and amputated history
by Jude Collins on March 22, 2017

Irony abounded yesterday.  Enda Kenny spoke of Martin McGuinness's 'terrorist past'  while standing in front of a huge portrait of Michael Collins which decorates his office. BBC and RTÉ reporters stressed the need to see Martin McGuinness 'in the round' –  that is, besides being a peacemaker who worked tirelessly for reconciliation, he was responsible for so many deaths. To drive home the second feature of McGuinness, they had moving testimony from those whose parents or spouses had been killed by the IRA and who blamed Martin McGuinness for this. And yes, the broadcasting outlets did stress how much Martin McGuinness had given of himself to reach out to unionism. They forgot to add how little response he got from unionist politicians.

Or at least how little response he got while he lived.  Yesterday,  both Peter Robinson and David Trimble released their salute to McGuinness, and they both spoke with generosity and warmth about his achievements. And the irony? They waited until he was dead. Had they issued similar statements when he was alive, when he was making effort after effort to bridge the gulf between republicanism/nationalism and unionism, such interventions could have made all the difference. Sinn Féin would have found it harder to speak of disrespect when two former First Ministers spoke of the Sinn Féin leader with such unequivocal approval.  But they didn't. They waited until it would have the least impact.

Perhaps most ironic of all,  there was little or no stress placed on what should have been an obvious question: what motivated Martin McGuinness and thousands like him to resort to violence? Was he programmed that way? Were all those IRA men and women motivated by blood-lust and hatred,  a blood-lust and hatred that suddenly boiled over for no reason in the early 1970s and continued for the next two decades, until they they suddenly decided they didn't want to hate and spill blood any more?

It can't be stressed often enough: people like McGuinness joined the IRA knowing that their chances of being killed or imprisoned were very high. And yet they did it. Such a decision must have been motivated by something. Fifty years of unionist misrule? Attacks by the RUC and B Specials on civil rights marchers?  The beating to death by the RUC of Catholic man Sammy Devenney, in his own home, in front of his children, because he had dared to participate in a civil rights march?

We could go on and on listing motivation points.  As some have quite rightly pointed out, not everyone took a violent path like Martin McGuinness. John Hume didn't, and thousands of  his followers didn't. But then if you look at the composition of the SDLP, while far from exclusively middle-class, it had a great deal more middle-class members than Sinn Féin, just as the IRA had a lot more working-class members than middle-class. Catholic working-class areas were on the receiving end of everything that was detestable in the Orange state, including unlawful killing. Little wonder, then, as Pearse Doherty said on radio yesterday, that so many of them decided, in Martin McGuinness's words, to "fight back".  Doherty also added that he hoped that if he had been in the same position as Martin McGuinness at that time, he too would have "fought back". As a devout coward,  it's obvious  to me that fighting back took real courage. We can feel fairly safe in suggesting that not  all decisions to follow the peaceful path were based on morality.

Finally,  tribute should be paid to Mary Lou McDonald. Among all the verbiage and photographs of McGuinness with that pistol, among all the talk of McGuinness having 'two lives', the IRA life and the political life,  the Sinn Féin vice-president suggested that people should stop marvelling at the change which occurred in Martin McGuinness in the mid-1990s.  Far from being unique, she said, Irish history is replete with men who followed the same path as McGuinness. How a state which had Eamon de Valera as its Taoiseach and President, had Sean Lemass as its Taoiseach, had Frank Aitken as its Minister of External Affairs, people like Dan Breen, Sean MacBride, Richard Mulcahy, Cathal Brugha – how can such a state speak of the 'contradictions' in Martin McGuinness's life?

Enough with the faux bewilderment that Martin McGuinness had a Damascene conversion to politics. Enough with the partial history of our country.

Nail on head

[brokencrossbar1]

Jude Collins is one of the most insightful writers on what has happened here. He hits the nail on the head more often than not.

[AhNowRef]

Irony and amputated history
by Jude Collins on March 22, 2017

Irony abounded yesterday.  Enda Kenny spoke of Martin McGuinness's 'terrorist past'  while standing in front of a huge portrait of Michael Collins which decorates his office. BBC and RTÉ reporters stressed the need to see Martin McGuinness 'in the round' –  that is, besides being a peacemaker who worked tirelessly for reconciliation, he was responsible for so many deaths. To drive home the second feature of McGuinness, they had moving testimony from those whose parents or spouses had been killed by the IRA and who blamed Martin McGuinness for this. And yes, the broadcasting outlets did stress how much Martin McGuinness had given of himself to reach out to unionism. They forgot to add how little response he got from unionist politicians.

Or at least how little response he got while he lived.  Yesterday,  both Peter Robinson and David Trimble released their salute to McGuinness, and they both spoke with generosity and warmth about his achievements. And the irony? They waited until he was dead. Had they issued similar statements when he was alive, when he was making effort after effort to bridge the gulf between republicanism/nationalism and unionism, such interventions could have made all the difference. Sinn Féin would have found it harder to speak of disrespect when two former First Ministers spoke of the Sinn Féin leader with such unequivocal approval.  But they didn't. They waited until it would have the least impact.

Perhaps most ironic of all,  there was little or no stress placed on what should have been an obvious question: what motivated Martin McGuinness and thousands like him to resort to violence? Was he programmed that way? Were all those IRA men and women motivated by blood-lust and hatred,  a blood-lust and hatred that suddenly boiled over for no reason in the early 1970s and continued for the next two decades, until they they suddenly decided they didn't want to hate and spill blood any more?

It can't be stressed often enough: people like McGuinness joined the IRA knowing that their chances of being killed or imprisoned were very high. And yet they did it. Such a decision must have been motivated by something. Fifty years of unionist misrule? Attacks by the RUC and B Specials on civil rights marchers?  The beating to death by the RUC of Catholic man Sammy Devenney, in his own home, in front of his children, because he had dared to participate in a civil rights march?

We could go on and on listing motivation points.  As some have quite rightly pointed out, not everyone took a violent path like Martin McGuinness. John Hume didn't, and thousands of  his followers didn't. But then if you look at the composition of the SDLP, while far from exclusively middle-class, it had a great deal more middle-class members than Sinn Féin, just as the IRA had a lot more working-class members than middle-class. Catholic working-class areas were on the receiving end of everything that was detestable in the Orange state, including unlawful killing. Little wonder, then, as Pearse Doherty said on radio yesterday, that so many of them decided, in Martin McGuinness's words, to "fight back".  Doherty also added that he hoped that if he had been in the same position as Martin McGuinness at that time, he too would have "fought back". As a devout coward,  it's obvious  to me that fighting back took real courage. We can feel fairly safe in suggesting that not  all decisions to follow the peaceful path were based on morality.

Finally,  tribute should be paid to Mary Lou McDonald. Among all the verbiage and photographs of McGuinness with that pistol, among all the talk of McGuinness having 'two lives', the IRA life and the political life,  the Sinn Féin vice-president suggested that people should stop marvelling at the change which occurred in Martin McGuinness in the mid-1990s.  Far from being unique, she said, Irish history is replete with men who followed the same path as McGuinness. How a state which had Eamon de Valera as its Taoiseach and President, had Sean Lemass as its Taoiseach, had Frank Aitken as its Minister of External Affairs, people like Dan Breen, Sean MacBride, Richard Mulcahy, Cathal Brugha – how can such a state speak of the 'contradictions' in Martin McGuinness's life?

Enough with the faux bewilderment that Martin McGuinness had a Damascene conversion to politics. Enough with the partial history of our country.

Every paragraph is brilliant & correct .. Well done Jude Collins

[blewuporstuffed]

I just love his twitter Bio 

Jude Collins
@Jude42
Irish writer and broadcaster, superannuated teacher/ university lecturer. "One of the most sectarian journalists I have ever come across" – Nelson McCausland

[Ty4Sam]

Dear God, we have produced some vile, hate filled people in this country but Jim Allister must be up there with the worst of them. Disgusting comments today in Stormont, epitome of the word bigot!

[Applesisapples]

Dear God, we have produced some vile, hate filled people in this country but Jim Allister must be up there with the worst of them. Disgusting comments today in Stormont, epitome of the word bigot!

Reflective of the one victim narrative.

[OgraAnDun]

It is extremely sickening to hear the likes of that horrible aul bitter west brit Ruth Dudley Edwards on Newsnight last night and on Nolan this morning blatantly denying that Catholics were even remotely oppressed or terrorised in the old Stormont or indeed during the troubles ...  She is a unionist and continuously spouts the usual lies that the British & Unionists were whiter than white and it was all the nationalists/Catholics fault...

One of my earliest memories was being a very young child and being woken up by a British Soldier standing there with a rifle in his hand ... I come from a large Catholic family, who were NEVER involved in anything, but because we were a large Catholic family we were fair game to be raided on several occasions .. and we were .. 3 in my memory .. Lets just say it was never a pleasant experience..

And as for Tebit, well he's really not worth thinking about as he will continue to stew in his own bile .. for years to come hopefully..

But youse lads are right, only for having parents that shepherded you away from getting involved there would have been a lot more people involved..  but its very easy to see how many people did..

I was born in the middle of the ceasefires so escaped 99.9999% of any problems, but one of my earliest memories is playing football in my cousin's house when I was around 4 and accidentally kicking the ball over the hedge onto the road where the British Army were on patrol, to have a gun pointed in my direction and the shout 'do that again and I'll shoot the black side of your bastard head off'. That and a bloody Chinook helicopter hovering overhead 24 hours a day for what seemed like weeks on end.

[seafoid]

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/daily-mails-irish-edition-different-view-martin-mcguinness/

[vallankumous]

To me the IRA were a necessary evil, we were being treated like shite by arrogant british b**tards and they pushed the nationalists too far, I hated the way they made you feel, when I was seven we were burnt out of our home in portadown by loyalist scum, in 1997 there was a device set that blew up my parents downstairs in Lonsdale Villas in Armagh, my mother insisted both times they the family move house, much to my fathers chagrin!

Something had to be done, I just wish they had hit military and government  buildings instead of blowing up butchers shops and ordinary Protestants going to work in a mini van etc, they did a brilliant job of keeping drugs off the streets but yet you would go to a gaelic match and they would have vermin collecting money for the prisoners wives and they would slabber at you if you walked on by.

McGuinness to me was a bad b**tard until he forged, along with Paisley and co the relative peace we enjoy today, I respect the hell out of him for that but I also remember he was a butcher, he was enigmatic b**tard thats for sure and like yourself I am vexed by the RA and MMG.

Thanks Stew.
I wish I could hear the more personal stories and talk to more people directly affected.
It seems when I try to I get distracted by automatic defence or attack mode. Then those with current agendas come in and take all reasoning away. Often I'm seen as a Republican, too old, too young, too catholic etc and so have the inbuilt position. I probably do but am willing to hear more and change if I need to.

[The Iceman]

I think I was lucky in many regards to be born in the late 70s. I knew enough about what was going on, the persecution of nationalists etc. but I viewed it through the eyes of a child. My basic needs were met and i was fine. As I got older I became more aware of things and certainly became bitter and prejudiced. I barely spoke to a protestant before going to university. I think had I been born 10 years earlier than bitterness may have compounded and I could see myself (like many young men around armagh) fighting back.  I often think about the consequences of it all. It was in many respects a necessary evil. Like all wars.

Martin McGuinness was a husband and a father and a good one it seems at that. He was a soldier, a freedom fighter, then a politician and without him and men like him there wouldn't be peace today in the North of Ireland. 

Maybe when you move away from home nostalgia plays tricks on you. I spend many a night wondering about a United Ireland in my life time. Without McGuinness I don't think there was a chance...but with his work, his efforts, his life-giving efforts - I think there is a chance...

I'm sure he regretted some of his past. I hope he sought forgiveness and I hope now he rests in peace.

[illdecide]

I too grew up in the early 70's and TBh was directly effected by the troubles in my family, I remember the British Soldiers bursting our door down and raiding the house and I remember a solider kicking the castle i was playing with on the floor and it going into a thousand bits with me still bits in my hand. I remember getting to a teenager and starting to throw petrol/paint bombs and any missile i could get my hands on, I remember joining a Republican flute band and wanted to free Ireland and wanted to be like the older guys around the estate. I think what hit home with my mother was the day someone set her down a copy of the "Republican News" with me on the front page parading in a military uniform in Derry was straw that broke the camel's back, from that moment on i was made to leave the band and every time a riot kicked off in the estate i was dragged in by the neck to the house. I grew up (kinda) and wised up (kinda) and when i look back now i realise how different things could have been.

Regarding Martin I have great respect for him and am thankful them men were around in the 70's growing up as there'd be very few of us left had they not taken up the armed struggle, i know some things happened that shouldn't have but i believe 95% of their targets were against the armed forces and loyalists. I think what he's done recently over the last 15 years is even more remarkable when u consider where he came from and what he was trying to achieve and for that i thank him, he showed great patience and is responsible for the peace we have today...

RIP Martin

[longballin]

I too grew up in the early 70's and TBh was directly effected by the troubles in my family, I remember the British Soldiers bursting our door down and raiding the house and I remember a solider kicking the castle i was playing with on the floor and it going into a thousand bits with me still bits in my hand. I remember getting to a teenager and starting to throw petrol/paint bombs and any missile i could get my hands on, I remember joining a Republican flute band and wanted to free Ireland and wanted to be like the older guys around the estate. I think what hit home with my mother was the day someone set her down a copy of the "Republican News" with me on the front page parading in a military uniform in Derry was straw that broke the camel's back, from that moment on i was made to leave the band and every time a riot kicked off in the estate i was dragged in by the neck to the house. I grew up (kinda) and wised up (kinda) and when i look back now i realise how different things could have been.

Regarding Martin I have great respect for him and am thankful them men were around in the 70's growing up as there'd be very few of us left had they not taken up the armed struggle, i know some things happened that shouldn't have but i believe 95% of their targets were against the armed forces and loyalists. I think what he's done recently over the last 15 years is even more remarkable when u consider where he came from and what he was trying to achieve and for that i thank him, he showed great patience and is responsible for the peace we have today...

RIP Martin

Well written and a very accurate assessment of what was going on at that time that drove men and women to join the IRA and fight back. Martin McGuinness RIP.

[stew]

Some serious stories here lads - crazy to think we lived through such times and as BCB1 says thank god for our parents and the education system during the time.

For me Martin McGuinness has given my generation the confidence to be a proud irish man from the north of Ireland. Working in London yesterday I got two jibes about Martin, looking a reaction from me but I refused to lower myself to that level.

He'll go down a hero in my eyes!

Good man, smile, say nothing and move on with your day.